Link Advanced Technique Guide

[J3f]

In your opinion guys, which techs are absolutely necessary to be a proficient LinK? Or are techs even necessary at all?

I ask because I REALLY suck at techs, I have L-canceling down and simple ones like arrow canceling, pivot grabbing, bomb zair drop etc. But i can't even figure out wave dashing. & things like the Hylian bomb? ….forget it.

But I wonder if they're really that necessary because after watching EmptySkies video I began analyzing a lot of Nick Riddle's games since he's one of the best Link's I've ever seen. He uses a few but it seems the only thing that's really needed is being really smart with your projectiles and grab game.

I'd rank them like this.

The Tiers of Link Tech:

Absolutely necessary:
Bomb Jumping
AGT
Boomerang Spacing and Control
D-Throw to D-Air
DACUS
Tether recovery and ledge regrabs
L-Canceling

Good To Have:
Pivot Grabbing
Bomb Punting
Arrow Sniping
SHAGing (I might be biased on this one)

Very Situational:
Wave Dashing (Link's Wave Dash is among the worst)
Hylian Bomb
Quick Draw (Arrow Cancels)

(Almost) Completely Useless:
Reverse Grabs: When Link overlaps certain character (most notably Sonic) he can grab them when facing away from them.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

I'd rank them like this.

The Tiers of Link Tech:

Absolutely necessary:
Bomb Jumping
AGT
Boomerang Spacing and Control
D-Throw to D-Air
DACUS
Tether recovery and ledge regrabs
L-Canceling

Good To Have:
Pivot Grabbing
Bomb Punting
Arrow Sniping
SHAGing (I might be biased on this one)

Very Situational:
Wave Dashing (Link's Wave Dash is among the worst)
Hylian Bomb
Quick Draw (Arrow Cancels)

(Almost) Completely Useless:
Reverse Grabs: When Link overlaps certain character (most notably Sonic) he can grab them when facing away from them.

What is AGT and SHAGing if you don't mind me asking

 

[Drexel]

What is AGT and SHAGing if you don't mind me asking

AGT stands for Aerial Glide Toss, a maneuver performed while holding a bomb. I don't know what SHAGong is though. :/

 

[Jedisupersonic]

AGT stands for Aerial Glide Toss, a maneuver performed while holding a bomb. I don't know what SHAGong is though. :/

Alrighty thank you very much ^^

 

[Hylian]

Wavedashing is absolutely necessary with link as is wavelanding.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Wavedashing is absolutely necessary with link as is wavelanding.

I'll keep that in mind too, I've gotten wavedashing down somewhat. But whats the difference between it and wavelanding and the benefits of such?

Also when I head to apex as a competitive.. rookie I use the term, I'm not only going to be facing super pros right?

 

[DarkDeity15]

Well, I've just started working on these things, got the "Empty Combo" down and the simple stuff. I am having an issue with the Bomb Plant and Bomb Punt techniques because everytime I drop the bomb close to the ground it explodes in my face. Any tips?

If using short hop to bomb punt is too difficult, full hop works just fine. You can also bomb punt with your boomerang.

 

[Boss N]

Im practicing the AGT right now, very now and then I end up doing the bomb zair instead and can't keep it consistent, got any pointers?

 

[EmptySky00]

Wavedashing and wavelanding are necessary because adjusting position quickly is good for zoning. Also, his movement stats aren't very good, so you should supplement them in any way possible.


AGT is when you air dodge and throw a bomb in a direction so you maintain the dodge momentum while throwing the bomb and avoiding special fall. SHAGing is doing that immediately out of a short hop to quickly adjust position and throw your bomb at the same time.

Personally with AGT, I found it best to use the C-stick to throw the bomb. Maybe that will help remedy inconsistencies.

As for what techniques are necessary, I view it like this: Every technique you master and apply correctly makes you that much more dangerous as a player. You technically don't need very much of it if you're a smart player, but why cripple yourself? Arrow Cancel is pointless. Hylian Bomb is flash (which is why it's necessary btw). Spin Cancel is ONE HUNDRED PERCENT flash lol. Though you can hit them with the spin's first hitbox before you fall off onto the ledge... I have no idea how I did it.

But the things that are clearly not that situational, there's no reason to not learn them imo. You should make use of all the tools available to you.


Edit: for bomb punt try just mastering the bomb plant out of short hop. It's really not that hard. If the bomb explodes you're doing it too late. If the bomb doesn't drop you're doing it too fast. One fun way to do it multiple times in a row is Short Hop - Bomb Plant - Waveland pick up bomb - repeat and do it over and over with the same bomb.
Then once you can do that perfectly, all you need to do is add a back input and a Zair. Try taking it in steps perhaps.

 

[DarkDeity15]

Im practicing the AGT right now, very now and then I end up doing the bomb zair instead and can't keep it consistent, got any pointers?

You need to get the timing down. Do it fast enough so that you don't Zair. Like EmptySky said, use the C stick to throw the bomb. I hope you aren't using wifi safe.

 

[Boss N]

You need to get the timing down. Do it fast enough so that you don't Zair. Like EmptySky said, use the C stick to throw the bomb. I hope you aren't using wifi safe.

Wi-fi safe? Whats that mean?

 

[DarkDeity15]

Wi-fi safe? Whats that mean?

There are different versions of Project M that you can download. Wifi safe is well...the Wifi safe version lol. The reason why that's something to be concerned about is because frames work differently there, so you would need to change your timing, which is bad if you're going to tournaments to play the full set version.

 

[Drexel]

Edit: for bomb punt try just mastering the bomb plant out of short hop. It's really not that hard. If the bomb explodes you're doing it too late. If the bomb doesn't drop you're doing it too fast. One fun way to do it multiple times in a row is Short Hop - Bomb Plant - Waveland pick up bomb - repeat and do it over and over with the same bomb.
Then once you can do that perfectly, all you need to do is add a back input and a Zair. Try taking it in steps perhaps.[/quote]
So I'm doing it late then, okay, I'll try doing that and practice getting it on time so it becomes second-nature.

Another thing I wanted to mention, I watched another Link tutorial movie by Izaw and he went over a few techniques that weren't mentioned in this one, mainly Gale Guarding, Quick Dash Attack and DI Z air Recovery, all of which I am also trying to learn.

 

[Boss N]

There are different versions of Project M that you can download. Wifi safe is well...the Wifi safe version lol. The reason why that's something to be concerned about is because frames work differently there, so you would need to change your timing, which is bad if you're going to tournaments to play the full set version.

Ohhhh no I'm using the full game. Why would the frame data be different if they're supposed to be the same game?

 

[Pug]

Chiefly the WiFi-set doesn't discriminate between light- and full- trigger presses. So for stuff like AGTs where there's only a few frames in the timing it can really screw you over.

IMO never use the WiFI set. If you want to play online Dolphin netplay is (from what I've heard) better.

 

[EmptySky00]

Wi-fi safe? Whats that mean?

Wifi safe has something different involving light shield presses (I think it lacks them but I could have it backwards)
The reason there are different versions is because the light shield press code causes desyncing with replays and wifi, so there were two versions made to have these features available to those who use them. You should be using the full one though because the subtlety of light shield presses can throw things off. It changes the timing for wavedashing, AGT, L-cancels, and anything involving a shoulder button press.
Edit: nevermind someone already explained it.

So I'm doing it late then, okay, I'll try doing that and practice getting it on time so it becomes second-nature.

Another thing I wanted to mention, I watched another Link tutorial movie by Izaw and he went over a few techniques that weren't mentioned in this one, mainly Gale Guarding, Quick Dash Attack and DI Z air Recovery, all of which I am also trying to learn.

Gale guarding doesn't exist anymore. You're better off going for a Nair edge guard or invincible Bair than a pointless boomerang bounce that won't really affect most recoveries and puts you in a bad position for your trouble. QDA I should have mentioned you're right. It's instinctual at this point for me so I don't even think about it. DI Zair recovery is... I've never used it ever. So I didn't think of it. I might amend the OP to add the things I forgot.

 

[Heero Yuy]

Wavedashing is Link's most underrated tech. Just because it's among the shortest, it's far from useless.

Like honestly, that little bit of space that the wavedash gives you can lend you an upper-hand in spacing jabs and other moves. It's also helpful for mobility in general (such as wavedashing OoS).

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Wavedashing is Link's most underrated tech. Just because it's among the shortest, it's far from useless.

Like honestly, that little bit of space that the wavedash gives you can lend you an upper-hand in spacing jabs and other moves. It's also helpful for mobility in general (such as wavedashing OoS).

So whats its best use for Link? I'm still getting the grips of wavedashing.

 

[J3f]

So whats its best use for Link? I'm still getting the grips of wavedashing.

Probably Wave Landing. It buys you a little more space and doesn't require a jump. Most of the time you would want to wave dash and aren't holding a bomb, DACUS is better. When I need to get out of a spot fast I actually do a triangle jump straight backwards and cancel it with a zair. The actions are actually identical to SHAGing minus the bomb and I delay the c-stick a little. You do a low to the ground air dodge which you cancel with zair and start falling, zair gets canceled by the landing animation.

 

[DarkDeity15]

Probably Wave Landing. It buys you a little more space and doesn't require a jump. Most of the time you would want to wave dash and aren't holding a bomb, DACUS is better. When I need to get out of a spot fast I actually do a triangle jump straight backwards and cancel it with a zair. The actions are actually identical to SHAGing minus the bomb and I delay the c-stick a little. You do a low to the ground air dodge which you cancel with zair and start falling, zair gets canceled by the landing animation.

SHAGing? Do you mind going over what that is?

 

[EmptySky00]

SHAGing? Do you mind going over what that is?

Short Hop AGT. You have a bomb in and and do an AGT out of a SH so that you can quickly shift your position and throw a bomb at the same time. At first I was indifferent to it, then I saw some Link (Ricky? Nick? Idr) use it and it looked pretty decent actually.

 

[DarkDeity15]

Short Hop AGT. You have a bomb in and and do an AGT out of a SH so that you can quickly shift your position and throw a bomb at the same time. At first I was indifferent to it, then I saw some Link (Ricky? Nick? Idr) use it and it looked pretty decent actually.

Thanks. It sounds pretty simple. I'm not sure how I haven't thought about that already lol.

 

[EmptySky00]

It's really kind of weird to input sometimes. AGT to the side is weird for me.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Probably Wave Landing. It buys you a little more space and doesn't require a jump. Most of the time you would want to wave dash and aren't holding a bomb, DACUS is better. When I need to get out of a spot fast I actually do a triangle jump straight backwards and cancel it with a zair. The actions are actually identical to SHAGing minus the bomb and I delay the c-stick a little. You do a low to the ground air dodge which you cancel with zair and start falling, zair gets canceled by the landing animation.

I have to master this.. Haha may take me a little bit to get used to, been playing Smash kinda semi casual/serious since 64 but never got super INTO the advanced techs until more recently

 

[J3f]

Thanks. It sounds pretty simple. I'm not sure how I haven't thought about that already lol.

It's really kind of weird to input sometimes. AGT to the side is weird for me.

Maybe I'm just used to the inputs I can AGTs in all directions. It's a very quick succession of inputs, like doing a SHFFL.

Original Thread on it: http://smashboards.com/threads/new-link-tech-to-do-grounded-glide-tossing.346341/

 

[Boss N]

Out of curiosity, comparatively how technical was Link in Brawl?

 

[EmptySky00]

Out of curiosity, comparatively how technical was Link in Brawl?

Link had a pretty high learning curve in brawl and was probably one of the more technical characters considering the game. I'm partially biased of course.


I can do SHAG, I just need to practice it more because I'm not at 100% consistency with it.

 

[Heero Yuy]

Out of curiosity, comparatively how technical was Link in Brawl?

You could say he's like Melee Yoshi in Brawl. Has a really high technical learning curve, but the reward is minimal since overall he's an awful character.

The same goes for P:M Link, although he's a far better character. The reward? Couldn't really say since the meta's not even fully developed yet.

 

[EmptySky00]

P:M Link is really good imo. Not nerf-worthy like a bunch of salty mofos think, but really good.
He has a high technical ceiling but a fairly moderate technical requirement. Very viable.

 

[Pug]

I'd like to add tumble cancelling to that list. Once I mastered it and did it on instinct my survivability sky-rocketed. It's really handy when you've got a bomb in hand when you get launched.

 

[EmptySky00]

I'm considering redoing the video if I find enough things I missed. <_> I'm irrational obviously.

I'll add tumble cancelling. It's when you mash back and forth to get out of tumble right?

 

[J3f]

I'm working on some new tech actually. I call it Bomb Serving. The same physics that makes bomb punting work also works with Link's sword. It's just like it sounds soft throw a bomb upwards or drop a bomb midair and fast fall then Neutral smash or Spin Attack. Hitting the bomb with the spin attack causes the bomb to fly forward and down at high speeds, it gets semi-spiked, much faster than you can throw it. Hitting it with a neutral or forward smash causes it to fall mostly down, but a little forward, I call it a topspin. If you time it right it will actually roll forward on the ground a little without exploding, the timing for this is pretty difficult. They both look really useful for edge guarding. A Double hop -> bomb drop -> Fast fall -> spin attack, looks like it might be a good move to throw out to approach enemies midscreen, because it's hard to react to, it requires you be on a platform though.

I've also found that you can hold a bomb aloft in front of you with Link's infinite stab for a few hits, with good timing.

 

[EmptySky00]

I'm assuming neutral smash is jab?

 

[J3f]

I'm assuming neutral smash is jab?

Yes

Forgot to mention the bomb drop to Fast Fall to spin attack requires you be on a platform, Pokemon Stadium 2 works well for this.

 

[Pug]

I'm considering redoing the video if I find enough things I missed. <_> I'm irrational obviously.

I'll add tumble cancelling. It's when you mash back and forth to get out of tumble right?

Yep

Forgot to mention the bomb drop to Fast Fall to spin attack requires you be on a platform, Pokemon Stadium 2 works well for this.

Why do you need to be on a platform...?

 

[J3f]

Yep


Why do you need to be on a platform...?

You have to jump double hop then release the bomb at the apex then fast fall to the bottom level and immediately spin attack in order to spike the bomb. Otherwise it just explodes on the spin attack. It's much easier to do with a soft throw, but you can't move much while waiting for the bomb to fall back down. I think I'll call it a Bomb Spike.

The Topspin (bomb plant using jab) can be done with a just a double jump without the need for a platform. It's really consistent and you can get it to plant a character length in front of you, or do it a little early and it'll explode. You can space yourself just so, and the bomb will bounce off the edge of the platform.

 

[Pug]

I've been trying it out and it's pretty awesome. I just realised I'd done it by accident in a tournament match a while back and didn't know how I did it.

The timing on the fast fall spin attack is really tricky. Sometimes I seem to go straight from fast fall to spin attack with no landing lag, but that can't be right. Any tips for nailing down the timing?

 

[EmptySky00]

I got both of them to work. The bomb spike seems like it'd be cool if it required less of a commitment.

 

[J3f]

I've been trying it out and it's pretty awesome. I just realised I'd done it by accident in a tournament match a while back and didn't know how I did it.

The timing on the fast fall spin attack is really tricky. Sometimes I seem to go straight from fast fall to spin attack with no landing lag, but that can't be right. Any tips for nailing down the timing?

I'll explain how Link's Jump Physics works. He has a vertical speed which isn't affected by horizontal input. This means you can jump diagonally just as high as if you had jumped straight up. Next is how he jumps, the first hump comes out slow and travels doesn't move Link quickly. The second jump he pirouettes into the air very quickly.

The first thing you want to do is jump forward or backward and wait 'til he reaches the apex of his first jump, let go of the control stick and use his second jump, then quickly drop the bomb and fast fall with the control stick a leaning to the side a little as soon as you can, Once you hit the ground immediately do a spin attack. You want to hit the bomb with the tip of the spin attack, You can do it with the bomb dropping on your head, but the timing is tighter and you'll take damage if you screw it up.

I got both of them to work. The bomb spike seems like it'd be cool if it required less of a commitment.

I disagree. The Bomb Spike can cover every part of Pokemon stadium 2 except the other platform, you can jump backwards and hit the bomb in front of you or behind you, jump forwards and hit the bomb behind you underneath the platform, or you can jump forward and hit the bomb in front of you. It's also a way to do a relatively safe Spin attack by jumping on top of an enemy from above.

There's plenty of ways to mix it up and the whole time your're moving quickly.

 

[EmptySky00]

The fact that you're essentially whiffing a spin attack to throw a bomb makes it a commitment.

Anyway what I'm saying is that bomb pull - single jump apex - double jump - fast fall - spin attack (80 frames btw) is the very definition of a commitment @_@ Especially when the alternative happens in probably about like 7 frames