Light Labs: Mega Man Advance Techniques Discovery Thread

[SanAntonioSmasher]

I wish you luck! I know how hard is to adapt to other controller schemes, but Ive done it a lot of times so I think you will be succesful with this. Remember:
A = Jump
B = Special Move
Y = Attack
X = Grab
Z = Grab
R = Shield
L = Attack
C-Stick = Smash
Hope it helps!

I've been messing around with controls. I find the attack button is more critical than special button, and I prefer hitting b vs y. Any rationale for having attack set to y and not b?

 

[mega4000]

I've been messing around with controls. I find the attack button is more critical than special button, and I prefer hitting b vs y. Any rationale for having attack set to y and not b?

In my configuration the only think that matters is that A is the jump button, because with that you have easy acces to sliding your thumb from jump to grab/attack/special move. If you feel more confortable having your attack button in b, feel free to experiment because that's the point. Also I've to update something, I changed my c-stick from smash to attack because with that I have retreating fairs and bairs in order to avoid grab punish.

 

[Fenrir VII]

A few thoughts after a while of not posting... been in the lab lately.

Uair:
So I'm starting to realize that effective use of our uair truly could be the difference between a good player and a mediocre player. That 15-20% or more reward on hit (plus full stage control) for a move that effectively covers your landing is... really really good actually. It also helps that it generally stops any attempts at punishing your landing without a disjoint, including allowing you to roll away from a shield grab before the uair stops connecting against most chars' shields.


Crash Bomb:
I've been playing a lot with the shield-canceled explosions, and other explosion cancels, and it's really adding a dimension to crash bomb that I hadn't fully realized.
First off, if you stick a crash bomb, you can try for a random hit utilt, dsmash, etc without fear of hard punishment in most cases. Obviously try to read rolls, etc, but I've gotten a number of dsmash kills just by running up and reading a roll-behind. I really like the option. And if you whiff, generally you or the opponent gets hit by the explosion (also if you hit dsmash on their shield, CB will chip hit them), and they can't punish you the way they would like to.
Second, if you're below 40%, you can shield after the first explosion, so that opens up all sorts of options like stick CB > grab > pummel > shield explosion (turning you around) > jump Bair or Stick CB > dash attack > shield exposion (usually chips the opponent's shield) > usmash and a huge number of other options. seriously play around with it... it's great.


Dthrow combos:
So we have a very adaptive combo game out of dthrow. All of this is reliant on opponent weight/fallspeed, but it works against the majority of the cast.. Danger Wrap gives another option here, but I'm not considering it for this post... but if you can use it, try it out and you'll see why dthrow > DW is really fun.

at 0-20ish%, dthrow > turnaround bair > falling bair (some chars) or 2nd jump bair (other chars) tends to string more often than not. The falling bair option will only usually hit with the first 2 hits of the bair, which will spike the opponent if you are close to the edge. Onstage, the falling bair usually strings to turnaround regrab, which is not a true combo, but opponent's generally shield in this scenario so again, it works more often than not. For the 2nd jump bair option, you can usually land with an uair to try to continue the string. This is far from guaranteed, but it's great if the uair lands.

in the 20-50% range (highly char dependent), dthrow > bair stops stringing, so I switch to dthrow > fair > landing uair. This string works a LOT and does really well for us. I don't like dthrow > fair at lower %s because the opponent recovers quickly from the fair and can punish you after being hit by it, but at mid %s, this works well.

Above 50% or so, and against floaty chars at lower %s, I've started moving to dthrow > SH uair. at lower %s (30-60ish), a lot of people like to try to airdodge the uair, which gives us a free usmash on their landing if they do dodge thru the uair. If they get hit by the uair, you can follow with a 2nd in most cases... worst case, they jump away and you can react accordingly. Mega is good at punishing landings, so this situation is extremely positive for us.

With all of these, you're looking at 20-30% damage, which is really big when our magic number for utilt kills is around 80-90.

The next thing on my list to research is the use of uthrow rather than dthrow. it seems to work slightly better at high %s, but I haven't tested much yet.


Damage output:
I alluded to it in the past section, but I've kind of changed the way I think about matchups lately.
Our killmoves are punishable on miss and fairly hard to land, but at the end of the day, they're very powerful. Utilt in particular strings out of metal blade (as a safe ranged poke), works as a shield punish, and can even punish falling aerials thanks to the invincibility. it also kills in the 80-90% range on avg, which is significantly lower than the average char has, especially against Megaman because of his weight. Now I'm not saying hit that number and start throwing utilts, but it's certainly an option on any mess-up that your opponent makes, so it's a huge amount of pressure once they hit that range, because dying at 90 is really painful in this game.

So your goal as a Mega player should be to safely chip your opponent until they're at ~90%, then continue the pressure and watch for mistakes. So it becomes critical to determine safe ways to tack on that damage. Above I mentioned the grab game, which I think is just critical because it ALSO stops the opponent from "press shield to win". But after those dthrow combos stop working, you may want to use bthrow, which serves to put the opponent offstage (which is good since Mega is a pretty good edgeguarder) and does 11%, which is very nice.
I also mentioned uair. if you hit a landing uair on an opponent, it will do 15-20% to them, and against a number of chars (like CF), following that with a jump uair is a true combo that tends to do 40%. There you go, you're nearly halfway to your target after essentially 1 fairly safe random hit.
So some other easy options for tacking on that %. item metal blades do 10% (hit twice) on throw or zdrop against a number of chars. Metal blades can also lead to grabs, which are 12% at least, or usmash, etc... so you're looking at a fairly easy 20% or so at least on metal blade hit.
Dair does 12-14%, pokes shield from straight above where the opponent cannot reach you without reading the initial jump, and autocancels for double jump dair after hitting the opponent/their shield. I also like using it as a prospective roll punish, as I don't have to commit to the punish except for being in the air, and if the opponent doesn't roll, I typically don't get punished for it. It's unreliable to hit, but it applies pressure and is safe, so I like it.

So we have the tools to tack on the damage... just have to actively think about the decisions you are making and try to optimize them for damage, and keep chipping away. as long as you are applying pressure and getting occasional hits, while not getting punished yourself, you are winning the match.

 

[Locke 06]

Just gonna say, I hopped on the uair train a couple weeks ago. Plenty of room.

Shff uair, played right, is a deadly trap. They either eat 16-20% of uair damage, or air dodge into the ground leading to a grab reset or a utilt kill/reset where they're in the air waiting to get trapped again. It beats so many things like non-disjointed aerial approaches. And kills safely and well. (Non trivially amazing in doubles)

Something else about uair is that it autocancels off of a full hop, but the window to do so is almost so strict you need to buffer it. This is hard, because you can sometimes get a jump canceled usmash. It's useful for when you want the extra height of a normal jump rather than SHFF uair (also for doubles).

And with regards to damage racking, leaf shield grab is ridiculously good at high %'s. At those %'s, nobody outside of dumb combo characters get true followups out of throws meaning their damage is just from throw + pummel. Leaf shield will realistically do 4-6%, + 2-3 pummels (I do 1 per 35-50% depending on their mashing tendencies) doing 6-9%, and backthrow or forward throw doing 11 or 8%... That's 18-26%. That's legitimately insane to be able to damage rack like that at high %'s.

Oh, and a few quick things:
- crash bomb>shield cancel>DJ BAir/uair is a true combo that kills (DI dependent though)
- Perfect pivot dsmash slides the full perfect pivot distance. I think it's better than walk>dsmash for slight spacing adjustments and it's pretty good due to its horizontal ranges, it's something I'm trying to incorporate. Especially into my ledge game to cover the roll and neutral getup options.
- You can instantly jump on a grounded rush by utilting next to him. This saves you the time of SHff'ing onto him (and is generally fun to do).

 

[Diamond Octobot]

Wat does the "PP" thing mean ? :-p

 

[Locke 06]

Perfect Pivot. Sorry. Edited... also I realized I was kind of typing gibberish at times due to me being sick in bed. So I fixed that up to make it more understandable.

 

[SanAntonioSmasher]

Anyone ever try using a fake out metal throw? Not sure if any use, but certainly a funny tech to fake a throw while holding metal blade.

Also, this has probably been mentioned before, or maybe is just really obvious, but combining a z-pick up blade with leaf shield activation is a great quick way to hold a blade and have leaf shield. I usually jump when activating leaves, so might as well make use of the jump with the insta-pick up.

Another way to get leaf shield up and get a metal blade in hand at same time is to use rush. Right before landing on rush, throw a blade upwards and then catch it and then activate leaf shield. I haven't tested much in game, but might be worthwhile. Not sure how easy to punish this would be.

 

[p1ay6ack]

Anyone ever try using a fake out metal throw? Not sure if any use, but certainly a funny tech to fake a throw while holding metal blade.

Also, this has probably been mentioned before, or maybe is just really obvious, but combining a z-pick up blade with leaf shield activation is a great quick way to hold a blade and have leaf shield. I usually jump when activating leaves, so might as well make use of the jump with the insta-pick up.

ive tried fake out metal throw. its good against ppl who have reflectors, and it sometiimes leads to follow ups. yeh, leaf shield and metal blade coombo is good. it keeps my options open when i wanna edge guard

 

[p1ay6ack]

does anyone know if there was a guide using rush as an offensive tool, rather than just recovery? i've been testing out rush as an offense tool, and i've been setting up some unique combos, like making my opponent land on rush and tornado them up into a blast zone :D

 

[mega4000]

does anyone know if there was a guide using rush as an offensive tool, rather than just recovery? i've been testing out rush as an offense tool, and i've been setting up some unique combos, like making my opponent land on rush and tornado them up into a blast zone :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lz5QhGYM78s

 

[CopShowGuy]

Making them land on Rush is severely disorienting for the opponent. I usually (always) follow up with a quick Air Shooter in hopes of getting the kill. It usually works. Problem is actually getting them to land on Rush.

 

[Sorichuudo]

Making them land on Rush is severely disorienting for the opponent. I usually (always) follow up with a quick Air Shooter in hopes of getting the kill. It usually works. Problem is actually getting them to land on Rush.

You can get them to land on him if you dthrow and then jump next to them and up B, if they air dodge they get sent up.

But the opponent can act before you can when they jump on rush with you right? If so it might be dangerous.

 

[ChopperDave]

I've noticed something kind of amusing with Rush Coil that might be situationally useful.

If you place a grounded Rush near the edge of the stage or a platform, and then walk or run off the stage/platform, you'll instantly get the high bounce off of Rush. The same thing applies to forcing an opponent off stage with an edge slip.

So if an opponent is hanging from the ledge and you think they're going to stand up, you can set a Rush down, lemon drop, fire another lemon to shove them off the stage and force them to bounce off Rush, then chase them with an Air Shooter or a Danger Wrap. This also serves as a funny trap if you think they'll try to double jump->nair/fair from ledge, and can make jumping from ledge dangerous too.

Not sure if it's actually MM's best option for trapping ledge getups, but it's pretty amusing when you can pull it off.

ETA: If you have Danger Wrap equipped, you can drop Rush near the ledge, fire a DW as you land, then fire lemons to force your opponent to edge slip and bounce off Rush into the rising danger wrap. Pretty flashy way to get a kill at +100%. This theoretically covers against three ledge get up options (jump, stand, drop and double jump).

 

[mega4000]

I've noticed something kind of amusing with Rush Coil that might be situationally useful.

If you place a grounded Rush near the edge of the stage or a platform, and then walk or run off the stage/platform, you'll instantly get the high bounce off of Rush. The same thing applies to forcing an opponent off stage with an edge slip.

So if an opponent is hanging from the ledge and you think they're going to stand up, you can set a Rush down, lemon drop, fire another lemon to shove them off the stage and force them to bounce off Rush, then chase them with an Air Shooter or a Danger Wrap. This also serves as a funny trap if you think they'll try to double jump->nair/fair from ledge, and can make jumping from ledge dangerous too.

Not sure if it's actually MM's best option for trapping ledge getups, but it's pretty amusing when you can pull it off.

ETA: If you have Danger Wrap equipped, you can drop Rush near the ledge, fire a DW as you land, then fire lemons to force your opponent to edge slip and bounce off Rush into the rising danger wrap. Pretty flashy way to get a kill at +100%. This theoretically covers against three ledge get up options (jump, stand, drop and double jump).

pls do a video about this!

 

[ChopperDave]

pls do a video about this!

I'm away from my WiiU. Made the mistake of traveling this weekend and am now stranded due to the nasty weather the east coast US got. All I've got is my 3DS and it's kind of a challenge to record that.

I'm not really convinced this is a "good" method of covering ledge getups, but it's cute when you can pull it off.

Mega Man's most dangerous ledge trap, IMO, is Danger Wrap + Tornado Hold + Metal Blade.

Danger Wrap covers stand, attack, and jump due to how slowly it travels.

Tornado Hold covers attempts to roll through the DW or jump->airdodge.

Downward tossed MB will hit people who try to wait out the trap on the ledge and allows you to reset. If they somehow airdodge or roll through the TH you can angle the MB to catch them and possibly chain into a throw, usmash, or utilt.

It's probably not perfect but the AIs and my friends online have a really hard time with it.

 

[p1ay6ack]

I'm not sure if this was already discussed, but picking up metal blade and jumping to throw it down to the ground gives megaman very little lag when you do a follow up move. also, it disguises a bair and fair cuz of the downward animation when youre trying to land it. i've also noticed if you throw it at a certain height, you'll be able to slides a bit, and it looks pretty sick. i've also tried lemon cancelling to slide, and its pretty cool

 

[Tornado_Man]

I'm not sure if this was already discussed, but picking up metal blade and jumping to throw it down to the ground gives megaman very little lag when you do a follow up move. also, it disguises a bair and fair cuz of the downward animation when youre trying to land it. i've also noticed if you throw it at a certain height, you'll be able to slides a bit, and it looks pretty sick. i've also tried lemon cancelling to slide, and its pretty cool

By slide I'm assuming you mean JCGT (Jump cancelled glide toss)

 

[p1ay6ack]

By slide I'm assuming you mean JCGT (Jump cancelled glide toss)

about the JCGT, the slide looks very similar at what im talking about. but the slide goes a bit farther from a mid-hop metal blade to the ground, then tugging the control stick to left or right, while fast falling, causing momentum, making you slide. im still testing out the timing and falling length to effectively pull this off consistently

 

[Tornado_Man]

about the JCGT, the slide looks very similar at what im talking about. but the slide goes a bit farther from a mid-hop metal blade to the ground, then tugging the control stick to left or right, while fast falling, causing momentum, making you slide. im still testing out the timing and falling length to effectively pull this off consistently

If possible can you provide a video?

 

[Locke 06]

Here's the list of %'s where the opponent has to tech or do something before they hit the ground (vs Mario in training mode. % will go down with rage and up with weight. [I think... could be wrong about this]) These might be DI dependent.
BAir3 - 15
Dair startup - 44
Dair meteor ground hit - 54
fair hilt - 57
Fair tip - 53
FAir soft (late) - 97
Item blade - 75
Metal blade - 286
Crash Bomb - 34 (29 at start)
Jab sweet spot (grounded opponent) - 617
Leaf shield throw - 57
Leaf shield leaves - 996 (lol)
Fthrow - 10

Dash attack, dtilt (most notably the sourspot), nair sweet spot all set up jab lock scenarios very well at 0-low%'s.

The reason this is important is for AAA jab lock > utilt, which adds on 23% to whatever you do and can kill at higher %'s (most notably FAir's soft hit and the item blade).

@ K Kronos2560 - if you were looking for jab lock %'s this might be of use.

I'm not sure of AAA>partially charged dsmash hits harder in terms of knockback, but you can get an extra 2% by doing that. However, it's less reliable due to strict timing with the forced getup.

 

[Kronos2560]

@ K Kronos2560 - if you were looking for jab lock %'s this might be of use.

I'm not sure of AAA>partially charged dsmash hits harder in terms of knockback, but you can get an extra 2% by doing that. However, it's less reliable due to strict timing with the forced getup.

Thanks for the tag, but I definitely have a strong grasp of how it works. I use it all the time in tournaments

 

[Locke 06]

Thanks for the tag, but I definitely have a strong grasp of how it works. I use it all the time in tournaments

Oh, I know. I just saw your post about possibly making a guide and thought I'd be a little bit helpful.

 

[Kronos2560]

Oh, I know. I just saw your post about possibly making a guide and thought I'd be a little bit helpful.

Definitely! I appreciate that!

I'm going to be doing that, along with other tech I think Megaman players should be using in match. It should be up in a couple weeks

 

[Mike_Tha_Hero]

Is the AT section of the guide up to date?

 

[ChopperDave]

Is the AT section of the guide up to date?

Not at all. I may try to write an AT guide at some point soon that gets them all in one place.

 

[Ookami Hajime]

If you'd like, I'll help you with that.

 

[ChopperDave]

Phew, that took FOREVER. You guys owe me.

http://smashboards.com/threads/list-of-mega-mans-techniques-and-tricks.394846/

Let me know if I missed or mischaracterized anything.

 

[---]

Because of the above I have unstickied this thread.

Am not sure if you all want to continue discussion here or within ChopperDave's new thread, for now though I will leave this open.

 

[Locke 06]

Maybe rename it to just "light labs" or something like that. It can be a place to share ideas that aren't fully fleshed out & discuss them.

Has anyone had success with RAR cross up landing uair? I'm trying to work on fleshing out my offensive game with more creative ideas... but there's not too much to work with.

 

[ChopperDave]

Maybe rename it to just "light labs" or something like that. It can be a place to share ideas that aren't fully fleshed out & discuss them.

Has anyone had success with RAR cross up landing uair? I'm trying to work on fleshing out my offensive game with more creative ideas... but there's not too much to work with.

RAR zdropped Metal Blade into cross up landing uair is pretty sweet, when I can remember to do it. I like blade drop -> uair in general -- it's prety handy for punishing ledge recoveries.

 

[Drippy]

RAR zdropped Metal Blade into cross up landing uair is pretty sweet, when I can remember to do it. I like blade drop -> uair in general -- it's prety handy for punishing ledge recoveries.

If you don't mind answering me but what situations do you find yourself using RAR? I actually learnt it yesterday but haven't really found myself using it, like I don't see any opportunities I suppose.

 

[ChopperDave]

If you don't answering me but what situations do you find yourself using RAR? I actually learnt it yesterday but haven't really found myself using it, like I don't see any opportunities I suppose.

RAR is what you use if you want to move towards an opponent while performing a bair. It's handy if you want to use bair to poke in neutral, or if you want to chase someone down with a bair in advantage.

It's also useful to RAR before z-dropping items, because MM drops items behind himself. If you want to hit someone who is standing in front of you, you either have to jump past him and z-drop or RAR and z-drop. The RAR->z-drop leaves you less exposed to antiair attacks.

You can also use it for other more situational things, like RAR fair to hit someone who you expect to roll behind you as you jump at them, or RAR nair to hit people you expect to dash under you as you jump at them. But generally I use it for turnaround bairs and z-drops.

 

[Drippy]

RAR is what you use if you want to move towards an opponent while performing a bair. It's handy if you want to use bair to poke in neutral, or if you want to chase someone down with a bair in advantage.

It's also useful to RAR before z-dropping items, because MM drops items behind himself. If you want to hit someone who is standing in front of you, you either have to jump past him and z-drop or RAR and z-drop. The RAR->z-drop leaves you less exposed to antiair attacks.

You can also use it for other more situational things, like RAR fair to hit someone who you expect to roll behind you as you jump at them, or RAR nair to hit people you expect to dash under you as you jump at them. But generally I use it for turnaround bairs and z-drops.

Ohh okay, I think I got the idea down now. Thanks a lot for the explanation and I suppose this is something I'll have to implement into my play-style.

 

[Rush 2112]

It's good for running underneath a jumping opponent and hitting him in the back with a pellet, or other move.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7aQkJdwnmQ&feature=player_detailpage#t=27

In general it's good for positioning. If you're running away from your opponent, do a RAR jump so you are now facing him. Probably the quickest way to turn around in that situation.

It can sometimes lead to a guaranteed kill if you throw a MB while semi-close and follow up with a short hopped bair when opponent is high %, up near 100. I can't find a video for that atm. I try that move quite often but it doesn't always land. Whenever possible you want your momentum to put you behind your opponent so if they shield they can't shield grab you.

 

[Drippy]

It's good for running underneath a jumping opponent and hitting him in the back with a pellet, or other move.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7aQkJdwnmQ&feature=player_detailpage#t=27

In general it's good for positioning. If you're running away from your opponent, do a RAR jump so you are now facing him. Probably the quickest way to turn around in that situation.

It can sometimes lead to a guaranteed kill if you throw a MB while semi-close and follow up with a short hopped bair when opponent is high %, up near 100. I can't find a video for that atm. I try that move quite often but it doesn't always land. Whenever possible you want your momentum to put you behind your opponent so if they shield they can't shield grab you.

Thanks a lot for the tip that vid (Mario is one of my hardest match-ups for me) and I'll keep that in mind. I've been trying to mix in RAR into my gameplay more lately.

 

[Rush 2112]

Here's an example of that MB -> RAR Bair. This one isn't the most solid. He may have had a moment to escape but often times it catches them off guard and they don't realize they need to..until it's too late >D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=XgNla8riLPs#t=254

With the right timing this seems to be inescapable.

 

[p1ay6ack]

something amazing just happend o.o rosalina was charging luma shot at me, and i put up skull barrier and i knocked her out at around 70% with the reflection. i mean yea skull barrier is mostly used as a reflector, but ive been finding interesitng techs with it in off stage game. the start up speed is the fastest out off all the b down specials, and when thrown it provides a big area of hitbox. i can charge skull barrier, throw it at an opp recovering to stage, they get hit stun, and i get a high chance to dunk with knuckle.

 

[Sorichuudo]

something amazing just happend o.o rosalina was charging luma shot at me, and i put up skull barrier and i knocked her out at around 70% with the reflection.

Well, Skull Barrier is a reflector so whatever it reflects gets powered up, sounds like the opponent sent a fully charged luma at you right? Add all that to the fact that Rosa is very light... yep.

 

[[OCK]LLama]

So basically, all you brawl players in this thread remember the DACIT/"Ikes jank item throw"?
Yeah DACITing exists in smash 4:

And it seems that mega man has a very useful DACIT. However the most practical use of this is with a cstick and I lack a wi U atm so I can't test the applications.

But as we see in the video, sliding utilt is amazing. You could also use jab to invade space. And other useful things

For those confused about DACITs, here's the old brawl thread on it:
http://smashboards.com/threads/in-depth-look-into-dacit.212159/

 

[Greward]

DACIT is super amazing. We might just have one patch until it's patched though.
Definitely going to put it in my gameplay.

I use it with L as grab and C stick. I think using Z button is too hard.
Timing is dash, let go of the control stick, Grab then c stick up a few frames after that. At least that's how I do it.