Lie Detector: Death Note l OVER l Unfortunately they won't be making an appearance...

[BSL]

ok. was checking to see if maybe we would win when either John Smith showed up.

ugh not enough people and too many spaces for Kira to kill everyone if we just line up one by one

vote: badwolf if you don't know your name, let's just find it out.

 

[BSL]

Another thing that's interesting about this is that since there's no night phase we can take as long as we need to get enough information before we put someone on the lie detector.

yes, unfortunately, i'm not really sure what we could do to get information out of each other. threatening to put people on the lie detector doesn't help us much, since finding out someone's identity gives us only their identity.

since kira is alone, there's no connections to make. anyone have a direction we could take this?

 

[Dabuz]

.

Dat authoritative attitude... *swoons*

...but wait

what if YOU are Kira?!?!

*Looks at you and smiles, then chuckles heartily*

I like you, never clear anyone, suspect everyone, eh? We are dealing with someone dangerous and not being won over so easily is an important trait.

 

[The Real Gamer]

But on the flip side putting someone on the lie detector makes us 1 step closer to figuring out Kira's real identity. Without connections available we'll just have to use some bad ass deductive reasoning.

So far my idea's the same thing people always do on Day 1 of regular Mafia I guess... Start putting votes on people, see how they react, and move from there.

 

[Dabuz]

yes, unfortunately, i'm not really sure what we could do to get information out of each other. threatening to put people on the lie detector doesn't help us much, since finding out someone's identity gives us only their identity.

since kira is alone, there's no connections to make. anyone have a direction we could take this?

Mafia at it's core is a game of votes, so the only approach to take ATM is one with votes.

Vote: Gheb

 

[BSL]

This isn't mafia though, which is the problem. Part of the reason pressuring someone works so well in mafia is because when the pressure makes someone react in whatever fashion, there are others who support or oppose said pressure. The reaction of others to the pressure is just as useful, if not more useful, than the reaction of the pressured. Here, Kira is alone and has no one to make connections to. Kira is the only one with more information than the rest of us.

If we pressure someone and it isn't Kira, he gets to play along just like the rest of us, and once we reach a "lynch", we start back at square 1 with one less person (assuming they're killed immediately, since as far as I can tell, there's no reason for Kira to keep anyone alive).

I guess since the only thing we know is mafia, we can't play it much differently than we are now. This is unfortunate.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

But on the flip side putting someone on the lie detector makes us 1 step closer to figuring out Kira's real identity.

It helps Kira a lot more than it helps us because we can only put one player at a time on the lie detector. The higher the amount of solid conclusions to be drawn from somebody's revelation, the more Kira benefits compared to us. That's because Kira has the ability to kill multiple people at once whereas we can only reveal people one by one.

So far my idea's the same thing people always do on Day 1 of regular Mafia I guess... Start putting votes on people, see how they react, and move from there.

This isn't a mafia game and it's not like a mafia game. Kira doesn't know our identities, which means that he lacks the most fundamental advantage the mafiosi have in a mafia game. His wincondition isn't the same either. His goal is to find out who we are and then kill us, not to obtain a voting majority.

We shouldn't play this like a mafia game. If we don't drop hints on our identities Kira can only guess. On the flip side, revealing somebody's identity helps Kira more than it helps us. That means that the standard approach of a mafia game is reversed because Kira needs to find out who we are.

 

[Dabuz]

This doesn't have to be mafia for voting patterns and reactions to apply, for pressure to create reactions that can lead us to Kira. The problem here is that there are no actions to judge, no special abilities or powers, we have to find Kira using our own wit. Kira is alone so he needs 4 name + avatar combinations to almost have a guarantee win, and even 3 if he wants to take some guesses with the combinations. Everyone else just needs to find 1 person to win. It's going to be hard for him to hide perfectly among us innocents with that pressure.

Just because it isn't mafia, we don't need throw out concepts of mafia. The question is what elements, tactics, ect. do we keep, and how good are we at reading the other members of this game.

 

[BSL]

This doesn't have to be mafia for voting patterns and reactions to apply, for pressure to create reactions that can lead us to Kira. The problem here is that there are no actions to judge, no special abilities or powers, we have to find Kira using our own wit. Kira is alone so he needs 4 name + avatar combinations to almost have a guarantee win, and even 3 if he wants to take some guesses with the combinations. Everyone else just needs to find 1 person to win. It's going to be hard for him to hide perfectly among us innocents with that pressure.

Just because it isn't mafia, we don't need throw out concepts of mafia. The question is what elements, tactics, ect. do we keep, and how good are we at reading the other members of this game.

how can reactions lead us to Kira when every single action is independent. there's no mafia partner to help read reactions.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

We don't need to find out who Kira is. We just have to make sure he doesn't find out our identities.

 

[The Real Gamer]

So you'd prefer that we don't put anyone on the lie detector?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I don't see why we should.

 

[The Real Gamer]

But then we'll never win the game by ID'ing who Kira is.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Kira needs to kill all 6 of us to win. If he guesses wrong 3 times, he loses. He's the one who needs to take initiative.

 

[Xivii]

Votes [Needed: 4]

Gheb - 2
Hando - 1
Badwolf - 1

 

[The Real Gamer]

Kira needs to kill all 6 of us to win. If he guesses wrong 3 times, he loses. He's the one who needs to take initiative.

But why would Kira waste 3 votes when the odds are against him to guess correctly? Without a proper ID Kira has nothing to base his guesses off of, which will result in a stalling standoff for both sides.

Our win condition involves successfully ID'ing Kira not stalling and praying that Kira hopelessly wastes 3 votes. I'm all for the idea of using as much time as we need to get information but eventually we're gonna need to put someone on the lie detector or the game will never progress.

But this is all redundant if someone actually has a legit plan that involves fishing out 3 votes from Kira without putting someone on the lie detector. In that case I'm all ears.

 

[The Phazon Assassin]

Oh, wow, we started. Why do I feel like the two John Smith's are going to throw us off?

Anyway, I'm working on my Pen and Sword entry (still), so I'll have more to input a little later today.

 

[Handorin]

Vote: Gheb

 

[The Real Gamer]

3 votes on Gheb puts him at L-1 lets be cautious here...

 

[BSL]

We can't put anyone on the lie detector unless we have some reason to believe that person is Kira. By placing someone on the lie detector, we give Kira more information without helping ourselves.

We DO need to put people on the lie detector, Gheb. It just can't be, as some want, for reactions to play off of. At least not yet.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Anyone have an idea of what 2 John Smiths could mean?

Could there be 2 Kiras??

 

[BSL]

Nah, more likely 2 people submitted John Smith as their alias. It is the stereotypical go-to generic American name.

 

[Handorin]

We can't put anyone on the lie detector unless we have some reason to believe that person is Kira. By placing someone on the lie detector, we give Kira more information without helping ourselves.

We DO need to put people on the lie detector, Gheb. It just can't be, as some want, for reactions to play off of. At least not yet.

I do believe Gheb to currently be the most Kira like player.

 

[BSL]

Then I have no qualms with your vote. I was more talking to TRG

 

[The Real Gamer]

Ahh 2 people submitting the same name makes a lot more sense.

Unvote: Hando

Vote: Badwolf

 

[Dabuz]

3 votes on Gheb puts him at L-1 lets be cautious here...

No one would be stupid enough to quick hammer Gheb...at least I hope not.

 

[The Real Gamer]

I've only played 1 game of Mafia online but there were 2 premature quick hammers that took place so I guess I'm a bit paranoid.

 

[The Phazon Assassin]

Gheb, is there any reason for giving out that name? It seems pointless to me. I'm sure you wouldn't actually give out your real name, and using a name that isn't yours is the same as not giving a name at all. I don't think what you're doing is Kira-esque, in fact, it seems like the exact opposite, which, I guess, could be suspicious in its own way. Anyway,

Hando, why do you think Gheb is Kira? You just threw a vote out without much explanation.

Vote: Hando

 

[~ Gheb ~]

But why would Kira waste 3 votes when the odds are against him to guess correctly?

Because it's the only way for him to win this game. Kira has to find out our identities. Period. We don't actually need to find out his identity though. We have that option but we don't actually need to use it in order to win. It simply puts the pressure on him.

We DO need to put people on the lie detector, Gheb.

Why?

Gheb, is there any reason for giving out that name?

Yes.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Gheb's reluctance to ID anyone makes me think he's almost guaranteed a detective (town).

Either that or he's playing some very strange mindgames with us right now... Since I'm new here I don't know his play style (or anyone else's for that matter) so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[BSL]

Why, Gheb? Because our wincon is identifying Kira. Kira loses if he can't kill us all, but we don't win unless we ID Kira. The only way to do that is by putting him on the lie detector/DNA test.

 

[Dabuz]

Gheb's idea is interesting, we don't win, but neither does Kira.

 

[The Phazon Assassin]

Alright, so let's all just sit here until we grow old, and Kira's shinigami gets bored and kills him himself.

 

[BSL]

Gheb's idea is interesting, we don't win, but neither does Kira.

are you kidding me? i want to win please don't do that

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Because our wincon is identifying Kira.

That's not our only wincon - we have two. One is to identify Kira. The other is to have Kira miss three times. If he misses three times he loses ergo we win.

Gheb's idea is interesting, we don't win, but neither does Kira.

That's not what I'm saying though. My point is that we have two winconditions: finding out Kira's ID or having him waste three kill attempts. The former requires us to make information available that benefits Kira. The latter requires us to do the exact opposite. Therefore the latter is the much safer option because it will leave Kira in a position where guessing is his only chance and odds are stacked against him then. We can win this game by provoking misshots and as long as we don't leave any hints towards our identities we're safe to do that as we please.
However, our ability to win the game at any time if we just find out his ID puts the pressure on him and forces him to take the action. It's definitely a tool we should use and be aware of all the time.

We need be aware that we don't put somebody on the lie detector in order to draw conclusions from his flip. That'd be borderline suicidal. But it's an omnipresent threat to Kira that we can pressure him with safe in the knowledge that he can't do anything to us as long as we don't reveal our identities. The first thing we should concern ourselves with is how we are going to provoke misshots from Kira.

 

[The Real Gamer]

The first thing we should concern ourselves with is how we are going to provoke misshots from Kira.

But this is all redundant if someone actually has a legit plan that involves fishing out 3 votes from Kira without putting someone on the lie detector. In that case I'm all ears.

It's not that simple though... Kira is one of us so while we're sitting here discussing our plan of action Kira will be able to react accordingly.

Like I said earlier all this is going to do is end up in a stalling standoff between both sides. We don't have to make the first move but at the same time Kira doesn't have to either.

 

[Handorin]

Unvote.

 

[BSL]

If he misses three times he loses ergo we win.

That's not what it says in the OP. This game could end with no winner, and I would rather that not happen.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

@mod

If Kira loses, does that mean that town automatically wins?

 

[Xivii]

@mod

If Kira loses, does that mean that town automatically wins?

Once the identity of Kira is revealed, the detectives win.