brawlpro
Smash Master
This should be a sticky
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Let's Talk
- Thread starter brawlpro
- Start date
Sariku
Smash Master
The perfect Marth stage is Yoshi Story. Nuff Said ^^
Rang Flash
Smash Journeyman
True dat. FoD is good too. I gotta add that I really hate battlefield, though.
Sariku
Smash Master
Any stage with low Platforms is good for Marth, but like you, for some reason I do truely hate Battlefield. The Brawl one looks really appealing though.
Yoshi Story is the best though because it's so small, not much room to hide from a TIPPER.
You forgot the apostrophe.
brawlpro
Smash Master
fixed, thank you.
Anomic_Punk
Smash Champion
Marth is too fun to play, possibly the most competetive character in the game ( I disagree with the 2006-2007 tier list) and has great matchups against most characters on all but a few stages.
I dislike:
Kongo Jungle 64
Mute City
Although :
Planet Zebes
Jungle Japes
Green Greens
Poké Floats
Aren't GREAT for him either.
I'd ALWAYS consider counterpicking on Yoshis, but most opponents will ban it against you, so learn to play FoD well. Its MY favorite stage. <3
On a side note:
Why do a lot of recent Marth combo videos seem to suck/be really mediocre? T_T
I KNOW there's a lot of good Marth players out there who tape their matches...
I dislike:
Kongo Jungle 64
Mute City
Although :
Planet Zebes
Jungle Japes
Green Greens
Poké Floats
Aren't GREAT for him either.
I'd ALWAYS consider counterpicking on Yoshis, but most opponents will ban it against you, so learn to play FoD well. Its MY favorite stage. <3
On a side note:
Why do a lot of recent Marth combo videos seem to suck/be really mediocre? T_T
I KNOW there's a lot of good Marth players out there who tape their matches...
RaynEX
Colonel RTSD
Gawd I love FD with Marth. Its like a tipper playground.
Or Yoshis story vs. incompetent opponents. Its the same concept there too ^^
Or Yoshis story vs. incompetent opponents. Its the same concept there too ^^
brawlpro
Smash Master
what do you guys think is the best stage in marth dittos...?
Salaad
Smash Ace
I like YS or FD. But theres no best stage because it's a ditto xD
YS is really fun IMO.
YS is really fun IMO.
brawlpro
Smash Master
<3 Brookman
RaynEX
Colonel RTSD
this thread was a good idea still. imo there should be one in every character specific. It would definetly keep each respective forum active.
FrostByte
Smash Lord
There is none. In any ditto.
Imperial Wraith
Smash Journeyman
So we have the Q and A Thread, the Ask Cactaur thread, AND THIS?
Too good.
Too good.
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
Kaze no Kizzu 3 and Sabaku no Aisen 2 were pretty cool. I think most combo vids are starting to look dull because Marth isn't that technical of a character. What impresses me in Captain Falcon vids, Fox vids, Falco vids, ect, is the aplication of moonwalking, double shines, ect. With Marth vids I'm not impressed by applications of tech skill because everyone can do that stuff. I'm more impressed by using unconventional and more extravagant attacks and edgeguards like Kizzu's side B stuff and Aisen's up B edgeguards (referring to above videos. Some of that stuff is actually very effective, it's just stuff that no one else really does.
UMBC Super Smasher
Smash Lord
lolz, I should sig this. Too funny.
brawlpro
Smash Master
hey it was supposed to be a funny joke, lol the answer is the stage your good at, and now, I'm on 5 sigs! I just learned how to fair>uair shffl. =)
RaynEX
Colonel RTSD
speaking of sigs. Bpro yours made me lol.
lol. how about mine?speaking of sigs. Bpro yours made me lol.
RaynEX
Colonel RTSD
its just really cool. so you photoshopped that eh? nice werrk.
yeah I think I can make sigs now, just give me a request and what color you want etc.
RaynEX
Colonel RTSD
Sick!
Can you make me one?! with a white or blue background. Whichever you think looks better. Both if you can
you dah maan.
Can you make me one?! with a white or blue background. Whichever you think looks better. Both if you can
you dah maan.
Druggedfox
Smash Champion
Hmm. I dont see y u people hate battlefield. It is a really good marth stage. I would like to mention how there is a lack of down smashing marth players =). Sure its not amazingly useful, but you'd be surprised at what you can get out of it sometimes. On a slightly more serious note, does any1 else truly enjoy fighting sheiks? It is definitely one of my fave match-ups because combo'ing is so easy, and its a challenge to edgeguard. Up tilts pretty much own sheik as well. When people say sheik counters marth, it is unrightfully so. Having a slight advantage is not a counter. Also, there is no point in double fairing 3 times and then doing a ken combo. After the first two double fairs, just do a freaking tipper!!! Also, people under rate marth against falco and over rate him against fox... Discuss
Peace
Peace
brawlpro
Smash Master
I enjoy fighting sheik...i just don't enjoy loosing to it
Betrayed
Smash Ace
I heard you ***** my friends IC
I regret not seeing it, heh
I regret not seeing it, heh
brawlpro
Smash Master
I took him out in doubles. Well he was a good player tho, he was hard to beat.
On topic: something came up, fox is better against marth than marth is on him imo.
On topic: something came up, fox is better against marth than marth is on him imo.
FrostByte
Smash Lord
Sheik likes to combo you too. Any sheik with good DI will escape combos while sheik has many options to combo you with. Edgeguarding Sheik is rinse and repeat, while edgeguarding Marth with Sheik is easier. Marth has a very predictable recovery while sheik has about 4 safe ways of returning to the edge.
Any tilt owns Marth.
Well, it's Marth's worst matchup and your style has to change specifically for it.
CC>Double fair
Like I said, any Sheik with DI will get out of the fair combo or survive the tipper
RaynEX
Colonel RTSD
Don't get grabbed in that match-up. Its like an instant 60 dmg.
You have to DD camp and wait for openings otherwise you'll get owned.
You have to DD camp and wait for openings otherwise you'll get owned.
Druggedfox
Smash Champion
OMG. First, its not an instant 60% against sheik. If sheik can DI out of your combos, y dont u DI out of hers? Now I have a question. Apparently any sheik with good DI can escape marth combo'ing... then how in god's name does mew2king combo KDJ's sheik? Do not say that its because its mew2king. I say this not because mew2king isnt an amazing player, but because mew2king is a pro at combo'ing while KDJ is pro at DI. They are both "pro" at everything. So chacnes are, if you are playing some1 at your level you should be able to find a way to combo them.
I play my normal style against sheik and I do fine. Also, if something is your worst match-up, it is not a counter. It could be a counter pick, but not a counter. Falco doesnt counter fox, most people believe he has a slight advantage. Falco doesnt counter sheik, he has an advantage. Just watch drephen vs (insert falco here). Etc. etc. etc. A counter is sheik vs bowser, a counter is marth vs mew2. Not sheik vs marth. Out of any tilt sheik does, with correct DI you can usually get away. Out of down throw, you can DI the forward tilt away so that you can get a fair in b4 sheik can follow up. If she starts CC'ing your double fairs(though i wasnt referring to the sheik match-up, i was referring to the guy who did it against a DK player), then just do a u-air and she will hit the ground probably not teching. Do a tap "a" reset and sheik cant do **** about it. The only main advantages sheik has in that match-up are edgeguarding/recovering, and a slight combo'ing advantage. And about if they dont CC the fair then they just DI the tipper... how many sheik players do you know that can consistently survive marth's tippers at 80% w/o a sweat. I can, but there are not many people that can do it and not get edgeguarded easily.
If a grab = 60 instant damage, then how do marth players win matchs after getting grabbed? If you DI correctly you wont get 60 damage. I would say the match-up as a ratio is about 5:4 if you are using the ratio that phanna used in his chart. Idk what he put, but thats my opinion about it. Also @ BP, I realize that fox has an advantage over fox imo, considering I just said that last post lol. To be exact I think I said "Marth is overrated against fox, but underrated against falco". Something along those lines =)
Peace
I play my normal style against sheik and I do fine. Also, if something is your worst match-up, it is not a counter. It could be a counter pick, but not a counter. Falco doesnt counter fox, most people believe he has a slight advantage. Falco doesnt counter sheik, he has an advantage. Just watch drephen vs (insert falco here). Etc. etc. etc. A counter is sheik vs bowser, a counter is marth vs mew2. Not sheik vs marth. Out of any tilt sheik does, with correct DI you can usually get away. Out of down throw, you can DI the forward tilt away so that you can get a fair in b4 sheik can follow up. If she starts CC'ing your double fairs(though i wasnt referring to the sheik match-up, i was referring to the guy who did it against a DK player), then just do a u-air and she will hit the ground probably not teching. Do a tap "a" reset and sheik cant do **** about it. The only main advantages sheik has in that match-up are edgeguarding/recovering, and a slight combo'ing advantage. And about if they dont CC the fair then they just DI the tipper... how many sheik players do you know that can consistently survive marth's tippers at 80% w/o a sweat. I can, but there are not many people that can do it and not get edgeguarded easily.
If a grab = 60 instant damage, then how do marth players win matchs after getting grabbed? If you DI correctly you wont get 60 damage. I would say the match-up as a ratio is about 5:4 if you are using the ratio that phanna used in his chart. Idk what he put, but thats my opinion about it. Also @ BP, I realize that fox has an advantage over fox imo, considering I just said that last post lol. To be exact I think I said "Marth is overrated against fox, but underrated against falco". Something along those lines =)
Peace
Dragon_Hawk
Smash Lord
wait you can camp sheik wtf when did this happen and why was i not informed
FrostByte
Smash Lord
Because Sheik has more than one combo option. Ftilt to fair if you jump, Ftilt to dash attack if you don't. See what I mean?
It would be nice if he'd win those matches. Marth's combos don't usually end with a kill and sheik is a pain to edgeguard. Sheik has 2 Ground KO attacks, one of which is a "GTFO" attack. She has 4 aerials which can combo, 4 aerials to KO
Well, Sheik will be able to Dtilt, Ftilt or Dsmash if you try to get close to her and you have to get close to her if you want to Uair.
The fact she has a relatively safe "GTFO" attack and Marth doesn't (his only one is dolphin slash, which will get you killed of you're hit out of it. And his Dsmash I guess). I won't even start about her powerful combo breaking fair. If you are at high percent and the Sheik is at high percent, you are favored to die.
Many. If they're DI-ing into your combo, then they're probably DI-ing your Fsmash unconsciously, no matter the power.
6:4 most probably
Betrayed
Smash Ace
6:4 = 10
5:4 = 9
Phanna used "in a a set of 9"
5:4 = 9
Phanna used "in a a set of 9"
He also gave a scale from 1 to A, and an even matchup is 5:5. But phanna chart should never be used in real-world gameplay discussion.
Druggedfox
Smash Champion
Dammit, I just typed like 3 paragraphs and they didnt get posted =(. I basically send lets end the 5 year old sheik debate and start on the topic of marth vs. fox. I talked about how fox could easily waveshine to grab, get grabds in, u-air to 66%, laser for a little bit of extra damage for the upthrow u-air kill at pretty decent damage. Talked about edge-guarding game; how fox can tech marth's edgeguards with ease, but fox can just light shield edgehog etc... That wasnt quite everything but thats the general idea.
Discuss
Peace
Discuss
Peace
Levitas
the moon
Marth chaingrabs to contentment, then edgeguards the fox to death. Also combos w/ tippered fairs. Also breaks his own chaingrab with an unexpected forward/down throw and punishes poor DI and/or lack of tech. Also camps w/DD against the fox.
Fox crowds marth by outmanuvering him and outspeeding him in general. Also punishes lack of SDI/ASDI by upthrow to upair. also carries marth w/nairs and bairs. Also edgeguards marth by ledgedropping a JC'd shine to bair back to the stage. Also shine gimps people who don't ever play against marth.
Marth catches fox off guard by edge-cancelling descending aerials to make abnormal combos.
Fox catches marth off guard by multishining random shielded drillshines.
Someone should pick up where I left off, I'm sure I'm forgetting a bunch of the matchup details.
Fox crowds marth by outmanuvering him and outspeeding him in general. Also punishes lack of SDI/ASDI by upthrow to upair. also carries marth w/nairs and bairs. Also edgeguards marth by ledgedropping a JC'd shine to bair back to the stage. Also shine gimps people who don't ever play against marth.
Marth catches fox off guard by edge-cancelling descending aerials to make abnormal combos.
Fox catches marth off guard by multishining random shielded drillshines.
Someone should pick up where I left off, I'm sure I'm forgetting a bunch of the matchup details.
Dragon_Hawk
Smash Lord
These are mostly superficialities of Fox/Marth. I'm not an expert, but these are my observations.
Fox has to be extremely careful approaching Marth if he chooses to approach (he has a gun, Marth doesn't). Marth's priority punishes sloppy approaches and although Fox is extremely maneuverable, if he commits to a Nair and Marth spaces a F-air (and consequently gets a grab because of it) then he will lose a stock. This is a matchup of punishment. On that note, approaching Marth is usually difficult and while it should not be avoided entirely, his priority and grabs are beastly to Fox and as such Marth does not always have the luxury of having Fox rushing him. Careful Foxes are painfully irritating.
Often, Fox is going to laser Marth (and dance around with his movement tricks) and convince Marth to come to him so he can scout the lag on something and do a gay throw combo or aerial combo (drillshine to grab/dash attack and Nair into U-smash or additional Nairs are popular setups particularly the former). U-throw U-air is acclaimed to be "super effective" on Marth and rightfully so. If proper DI and smash DI are not applied, it is extremely painful. Potentially 40%+ damage in a grab is brutal and efforts to get out of additional hits can become strange rock paper scissors games. For instance; if Marth F-airs as he lands to avoid the U-air, Fox can feign one by jumping and fast falling before the hit connects or by just faking approaching (shield grabbing the Marth as he lands). If Marth picks up on his he gets out. If Marth sees the approach and swats then he gets off free. There is also, of course, the edgeguarding that Fox can apply against Marth that comes in the form of ledgehopped Bair/Nair, shine spikes and the light shield edgeguard; the first two are amplified by correct use of ledgestalling to preserve invincibility. Fox's Nair and Dair still combo as they usually do and still lead to gay setups.
From the Marth perspective, his role will be to get grabs and/or get Fox off the stage in any way he can (either by comboing the Fox off the stage or by slapping him off with a move). A competent Marth can very easily kill Fox at 0% with a throw at the edge between his numerous edgeguarding options (jab/d-tilt them out of illusion then jump out and swat them with a weak F-air proceed to edgehog and ledgehop bair/spike if appropriate in addition to countering firefoxes that ride the wall and his f-smash and other methods). The key will be catching the Fox off guard to deliver as efficient kills as possible. Marth's punishing methods are probably more efficient killers than Fox's in the matchup given how lethal his edgeguarding is; any time Fox is off the stage he should be dead and that will be his biggest goal. Beyond that, he also has a scary platform game (U-tilt hurts spacies when they are on the platform) and his combos are effective; F-airs and F-air/U-air are good for starting and setting up, his U-tilt is as effective as ever and has a wide arc to work with, his d-tilt is beastly in tech chase near the edge and his f-smash is always a danger. Particularly tippers, as they setup kills notoriously easily on a character like Fox with gimpable recovery. On FD Marth can chain grab from 0-death but you already knew that.
Fox has to be extremely careful approaching Marth if he chooses to approach (he has a gun, Marth doesn't). Marth's priority punishes sloppy approaches and although Fox is extremely maneuverable, if he commits to a Nair and Marth spaces a F-air (and consequently gets a grab because of it) then he will lose a stock. This is a matchup of punishment. On that note, approaching Marth is usually difficult and while it should not be avoided entirely, his priority and grabs are beastly to Fox and as such Marth does not always have the luxury of having Fox rushing him. Careful Foxes are painfully irritating.
Often, Fox is going to laser Marth (and dance around with his movement tricks) and convince Marth to come to him so he can scout the lag on something and do a gay throw combo or aerial combo (drillshine to grab/dash attack and Nair into U-smash or additional Nairs are popular setups particularly the former). U-throw U-air is acclaimed to be "super effective" on Marth and rightfully so. If proper DI and smash DI are not applied, it is extremely painful. Potentially 40%+ damage in a grab is brutal and efforts to get out of additional hits can become strange rock paper scissors games. For instance; if Marth F-airs as he lands to avoid the U-air, Fox can feign one by jumping and fast falling before the hit connects or by just faking approaching (shield grabbing the Marth as he lands). If Marth picks up on his he gets out. If Marth sees the approach and swats then he gets off free. There is also, of course, the edgeguarding that Fox can apply against Marth that comes in the form of ledgehopped Bair/Nair, shine spikes and the light shield edgeguard; the first two are amplified by correct use of ledgestalling to preserve invincibility. Fox's Nair and Dair still combo as they usually do and still lead to gay setups.
From the Marth perspective, his role will be to get grabs and/or get Fox off the stage in any way he can (either by comboing the Fox off the stage or by slapping him off with a move). A competent Marth can very easily kill Fox at 0% with a throw at the edge between his numerous edgeguarding options (jab/d-tilt them out of illusion then jump out and swat them with a weak F-air proceed to edgehog and ledgehop bair/spike if appropriate in addition to countering firefoxes that ride the wall and his f-smash and other methods). The key will be catching the Fox off guard to deliver as efficient kills as possible. Marth's punishing methods are probably more efficient killers than Fox's in the matchup given how lethal his edgeguarding is; any time Fox is off the stage he should be dead and that will be his biggest goal. Beyond that, he also has a scary platform game (U-tilt hurts spacies when they are on the platform) and his combos are effective; F-airs and F-air/U-air are good for starting and setting up, his U-tilt is as effective as ever and has a wide arc to work with, his d-tilt is beastly in tech chase near the edge and his f-smash is always a danger. Particularly tippers, as they setup kills notoriously easily on a character like Fox with gimpable recovery. On FD Marth can chain grab from 0-death but you already knew that.
brawlpro
Smash Master
How does my marth avoid uthrow > 3+ uairs...?
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
Smash DI the first hit of the Uair. You can also DI the throw and ASDI the Uair in the opposite direction (at least I think you can, but the Smash DI one is more reliable.)