Lets talk about Snake

[NC-Echo]

Snake is, in my opinion, unquestionably the best character in Brawl and although Olimar doesn't have a horrible match-up against Snake it is far from in his favor (if you don't believe me, wait till you play a good snake. Not your younger brother but a really good snake). Personally I have played Chillin, g-reg and I'vejihadit (one of the best from NC) and had trouble with all of their Snakes (I've won sometimes but even when I did I didn't feel like I had control).

So what can we can as Olimar players to make this match work because as it is now I am considering picking up Rob just to play against Snake.

I'll get some vids up in a week or so hopefully of me playing a good Snake so that those of you who have been lucky enough to avoid them so far can see how the match generally plays out (at least for me).

 

[DanGR]

I'm picking up Pit for some of olimar's troublesome matchups. Pit has a better range game than Snake so...

Anyways, I haven't played any "good" snakes, but from watching videos, there seems to be some weakness he has.

approaching- he has his DAC-upsmash, but you can shield it and punish with a grab or fsmash or something.

range game- olimar's pikmen "outcamp" his grenades.

I'm not too sure about the matchup though so I'm not gonna get any more detailed than that.

 

[Jarri]

I have played some good Snakes and I have to admit I don't have lots of trouble with them. I don't know why, really... What do I do against a Snake:

- Latch Pikmin on him. Snake has a hard time shaking them off, I believe. Just keep the distance. Snake can throw bombs, yes, but they're so easy avoidable and if he wants to cook his grenade, he'll get some more damage because of a ****** Pikmin.

- When he plants a mine, throw some Pikmin on it and it will explode. Very funny if the Snake is still close to it, I actually made some Snakes "SD" this way.

- When a Snake plants a bomb, memorize this. He only has one bomb and he will probably put it near the edges or on a platform near the edges. Avoid it, or pretend not to know where it is, so he will let it explode and you can defend because you know where it is .

- Snake's tilt are overpowered. FACT. Just do everything you can not to get in his tilts, because he can knock you off stage and gimp your recovery.

- Grab a lot. And when I say a lot, I do mean A LOT.

- Defence is very important. Especially against a Snake.

- His aerials rawk. He can spike you and knock you off screen with most of his other aerials.

- If he doesn't edgehog you, he'll sure as hell try to uSmash you and hit you with the bomb falling back. Remember this and use your invincibility frames to avoid the hit.

- A combo most Snakes do: uSmash + uTilt. He just kicks you in the bomb and can KO you with this, so watch out.

- DACUS. Oh noes. Very good, most Snakes tend to use it all the time, but it's actually quite easy to tell when they're going to. Do NOT defend, but dodge. That way you can abuse the lag he gets by uSmashing to grab him.

If anything else comes to my mind, I'll post.

EDIT

When a Snake is recovering, don't dAir him because you'll only get hit yourself. Let him come and upB him. It won't cancel his recovery, but will certainly deal some damage. You could also uAir or fAir him, but that's quite dangerous I say because he can quickly let go of his recovery-machine (what is it anyway?) and hit you with one of his overpowered - again - aerials.

 

[Kabuto Mushi]

Guess I haven't fought any "really good" Snakes... I've fought some OK ones, (not my little brother, he's Luigi, lol) but I've done really well against them...

 

[Dr. Hyde]

yeah, I kinda agree Snake isn't the best match for Olimar but Snake doesn't have it easy against Olimar either from what I've heard. I play both but I think a good snake can just wreck house with the frickin up tilt.

Jarri- I think you analysis is well off. Not to be harsh but Snake can easily remove any pikmin in front of him that are latched and to catch a snake with his back to you is a god send IMHO.

Also dairing a Snake can kill Snake easily. If you sweet spot it and hit him instead of the cypher you'll spike him and just take a small hit from the cypher. seriously not that hard but not gonna happen often that snake will be below you.

 

[asob4]

snake hasn't been that hard of a match up for me
i two stock the best snake out here, and he goes toe-to-toe with DSF's snake so that's saying something.
the main thing i try to do against snake is grab and juggle/combo
really not that hard to beat, for me at least

 

[Excellence]

I just beat a good Snake player about ten seconds ago, so everything is still fresh. Snake's tilts annoy me, they're fast, damaging, well-ranged, and out prioritize Olimar's jab. What I perfer to do is keep my distance, at first. I hit him with Pikman spam, the Snake I played threw grenades at me, which I simply threw back at him. If he tries to hold the grenade to throw it and make it explode when it gets in range, he gets ***** by Pikman damage, usually he'll stop. Snake usually approaches with his dash Up-Smash, I avoid it easily, instead of getting hit, I think it's easier to just roll behind him and D-Grab him, then shield the bomb. To death with his bombs, someone said earlier, toss a Pikman on it and watch it explode. His mines you can get past by making him think you've forgot then shielding.

Getting on the ledge wasn't hard for me. I faced fulled charged and uncharged Up-Smashes, I just abused the invincibility frames I was given and rolled for my life -- literally. Where I racked up most of my damage was from his Cypher, I perfer to Up-Aerial, it's a little more risky, but you can do some real damage with it. If need be, mix it up, act like your going for Up-Air then DI away and use Up-B, it'll knock in some damage.

 

[DarkStraw]

Ive played good snakes, and its usually about 50/50. i dont think olimar is at a disadvantage to snake.

Usually i play defensivly against snake and i do pretty well. Approaching snake is a pain because of his tilts and jabs. Anytime snake throws a grenade if you counter it with a pikmin (throw) it falls to the ground wherever they collide. If snake has a pikmin on him and he throws a grenade it falls at his feet.

You can fsmash his morter slide rather easy, as well as his dash. Just make sure to keep your space and stay the hell away from those tilts and jabs.

 

[Olimarman]

Spamming pikmin and whistle cancelling is all you can really do lol. Try to get in grabs also if you can.

 

[scalpel]

OK, I think everybody here has different definitions of "Good Snakes". If you are not having a difficult time with Snake, then you're not playing a truly good Snake. Even the best Olimar players have difficulty fighting good Snake players. This is why Snake players have been dominating the top five of all of the major SSBB tournaments, so far. Snake is truly the character with the most potential in SSBB. Second to none. I would say Olimar has the second most potential.

I believe we must first accept this fact. Once we accept that Snake is the best character (and when I say best, I mean the one with the most potential), then we can begin to find ways to defeat good Snakes.

 

[Excellence]

OK, I think everybody here has different definitions of "Good Snakes". If you are not having a difficult time with Snake, then you're not playing a truly good Snake. Even the best Olimar players have difficulty fighting good Snake players. This is why Snake players have been dominating the top five of all of the major SSBB tournaments, so far. Snake is truly the character with the most potential in SSBB. Second to none. I would say Olimar has the second most potential.

I believe we must first accept this fact. Once we accept that Snake is the best character (and when I say best, I mean the one with the most potential), then we can begin to find ways to defeat good Snakes.

Or, maybe you have the wrong definition of a "Good Olimar", because I can trounce most Snake players I come across. I don't two or three stock them, but I can definately control Snakes gameplay. How does his machinary get in your way? You can always use Snake's weapons to his disadvantage. Example, you can't be near his mines when they explode, neither can he... Your going to laugh and say it's ridicilous and pretty stupid, but the way Snake limits your movements also and sometimes, to a much greater extent limit his own.

 

[pesticide]

i played a really good snake about a week ago. i think i lost in literally 55 seconds D:

then again, that was the first time i had EVER faced a snake player (that wasnt a computer), so i probably need more experience vs them. biglou has a crazy snake though.

 

[Excellence]

Probably just your lack of experience, at least I hope for you and me both. Let's make Olimar look more impressive then he already is! I think people who lose to Snake are losing because of their play style, not because of how good Snake is.

 

[scalpel]

Probably just your lack of experience, at least I hope for you and me both. Let's make Olimar look more impressive then he already is! I think people who lose to Snake are losing because of their play style, not because of how good Snake is.

Sorry, but I think that's a very naive thing to say. I am not trying to offend you, or anyone else. The statistics are there. If you don't believe me, look at them yourself. In every major SSBB tournament so far, Snake users have filled the top five ranks. You may be able to beat many Snake users, but against a truly good Snake user, Olimar does not have the upper hand. It's definitely possible to win, of course, but the Olimar user just has to work much harder. When I say "Good Snake," I'm not defining a good Snake subjectively, as many people here are doing. I define a good Snake as a competitive player who has participated in a major tournament and has achieved a high ranking in that tournament.

I could say the exact same thing. I can tell you that I've won against a lot of Snake users. Does that mean that I've beaten truly good Snake users? It does not. It only tells you that I've played against Snake users many times. It says nothing about the skill level of the Snake user. Play against a Snake user who has competed in a major tournament, and ranked high, and you know that you're playing against a good Snake. Once you've done that, then it's easy to understand that Snake is an extremely difficult opponent; it's not true just for Olimar, but for every character in the game.

Anyways, NC-Echo, can you please elaborate on your concerns against Snake? Out of all of the people who have posted here, so far, I believe you have the most experience against actually good Snake players. Please enlighten us about your specific Snake concerns, and the rest of us in the Olimar forum can continue to discuss and find solutions.

 

[KMAY]

I have played some very good snakes, in fact I played Master Sensei the other day, I guess he is the 2nd best snake in Cali. And I have played Znake very extensively (he won the SBR Tourney, yes i know it was online but still...) Anyways, Snake is a tough match-up of course, but he is beatable. GRAB HIM, and never stop! lol, always try to keep your spacing vs him, to avoid his tilts. If he comes at you and you try to fsmash and his tilts just cut through it, don't try to smash again, either shield and try to grab or try a Short Hop Fair, or just simply retreat and reset with more space. Try not to come in from above him too much cause his crazy *** huge hitbox and quick uptilt is just stupid and one of his best KO moves. If you are at 110 or so, you will be KO'd by an uptilt. So spacing and grabs and play pretty offensive if you can by just using your little pikmin buddies A LOT, short-hop throw them or just jump, because if you stand there and throw them he can quickly come in with a dumb snake dash. Sorry for the long post, but yea, GRABS, throw pikmin, and some more grabs, and you can come out on top.

 

[Dr. Hyde]

Or, maybe you have the wrong definition of a "Good Olimar"... How does his machinary get in your way? You can always use Snake's weapons to his disadvantage. Example, you can't be near his mines when they explode, neither can he...

I'll take a C4 explosion if it means that I'm heavier and at a lower percentage or relative one. Besides we'd both be in the air and if snake gets an up air off you are dead from your own assumptions.

Gazelle- yeah I agree I want to see the specifics.

Anyone who says he beat Snakes hands down. I'll put 50$ on you losing to DSF. Please call me wrong or better yet play some truly good snakes. I'm not doubting you, please I just need the money.

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

Everyone has trouble against good Snakes, no matter what character you play.

Bring Snake to Norfair and camp all day long.

 

[DarkStraw]

Ive played some "good" snakes, Ive played one good snake alot. I may not have played any "pro's".
Snake is good, he is broken if used correctly...he's no easy matchup for olimar but i dont think olimar is at a disadvantage to snake, if he is then its not a big one, its a small disadvantage. There are few characters that play as well against snake as olimar.

 

[shanus]

Everyone has trouble against good Snakes, no matter what character you play.

Bring Snake to Norfair and camp all day long.

so so sooooo true

 

[Fino]

In my group of people that I regularly play with, there's 1 snake player, and he does really well against everyone else, but I seem to be able to get the better of him. Really it's just mind games. Snake is such a tactical player that when you have to deal with pikmin flying everywhere and what not, it makes it hard. Though I can't for sure say he's a good snake or not, because I haven't had trouble with one.... and I'm pretty sure it's not because I'm good, but more because I just haven't found a REALLY good snake. I find also though that whistle armoring MAJORLY screws with his game ( or at least the snake mains I play against). Of course that work on a lot of characters, so that's more just general strategy I guess.


~Fino

 

[NC-Echo]

I got about 15 new videos recorded today. I'll put them up before the end of the night.

 

[IcyLight]

All right--here is how I fight GOOD snakes and some to-do's and not to-do's

Advantages:

1) Grab out of mortar slide -- a lot of snakes like to get close, whether it's a good thing to do against Olimar or not. But it happens, so watch for it.
2) COUNTER PICK STAGES -- This is how I can keep up in tourneys with stages. There are 3 amazing counter-pick stages against snake as Olimar. I will go into detail below.
3) Combo's and juggling (sometimes juggling is possible)
4) Pikmin throwing on explosives/grenade spammers
5) Edge-guarding

Disadvantages:

1) Snake Tilts (obviously)
2) Easily edge-guarded
3) Invisible mines in dark levels (like Lylat--probably won't see if you missed the plant)
4) Being juggled/kept in air






Advantage details:
1) Grab out of Mortar Slide: Obviously this is the most known olimar vs. snake tactic, and can be used completely to your advantage in the matchup. Snake can keep you juggled if you allow him to get you in the air with this mortar slide...which is extremely annoying.

2) COUNTER PICK STAGES: This is the one big thing I could suggest to Olimar players vs. Snakes. Pick a good counter-pick stage! Here are 3 of them I have found to be quite...acceptable.

a) Norfair -- No more super sliding snake! haha! This isn't the only reason to pick this level vs. a snake either. Because he can keep you edgeguarded so well, you have a chance to land in rising lava once gimped. Not only that, but you can recover in THREE (yes 3) different sections on both sides of the stages. You can play extreme mind games with this as well. You can stand on the very top platform, SPAMMING pikmin as quickly and wait for the snake to approach, quickly hug, drop down to the bottom and jump up and u-air him into a juggle or combo. A good way to play against snake here is to spam pikmin and continuously run around (avoid a snake player if he stands on the bottom middle platform and waits for you--just keep throwing pikmin at him because he is very secure on that platform. This also calls for a longer match, but it doesn't have to be played that way.

b) Brinstar -- Brinstar is a very good counter-pick for snakes as well. You can ledge camp and jump under the level and u-air, but that can be a bit risky. You also have the multi-platform recovery options like Norfair, and the lava to help you. This also forces snake to move around--the lava. He can't just camp the bottom every moment of the match. But keep in mind, he can keep you off the top platform if the lava rises to it's full height. This matchup isn't as well as Norfair, but it half-way eliminates gimps. Snakes do well against Olimar because he is just so easy to kill.

c) Finally -- Luigi's Mansion: This can be an extremely well thought counter-pick against a snake if he bans Norfair. You can camp one of the bottom corners, which can be a large advantage for you. Snakes might try to mortar slide to get close to you, allowing you about 2 seconds to react and grab him. IF you can pull off a grab on him, throw him UPWARDS if he is not in the middle, this will throw him into the ceiling. He would then bounce downwards and lead to you multiply up-smashing him into ceiling, back down, again, etc. Really good players still usually get hit by at least 1-2 smashes before they tech it, but that's a 30-40 % damage increase on their sides. Another thing to watch for would be snakes starting to grenade camp you if you keep running to the bottom away from him. Easily dodge-able just by throwing pikmin to stop his grenades in mid-air, or by moving to the top platform (but don't let him get under you!

3) As far as combos and juggling go, there are plenty of responses to those just read. Keep in mind that up-air and white pikmin are good ways to rack up damage.

4) Obviously won't need to get into pikmin and explosions.

5) MOST IMPORTANT is your edge-guarding!!!
a) A LOT of people try to jump out there and try to spike him, because spike knocks him out of his parachute. Only do this when it is IN REACH of your first jump, or if they are are medium-close range. Don't get impatient and jump out if he's just going to parachute above you. Wait for him to get to the stage and up-air him, but watch out for his air dodge and punish. mind games can be used if you think he is going to air dodge your u-air. This is a game of patience vs. snake!
b) FAIR knocks out of his parachute when he is at higher percentage, and so do purple pikmin. Keep this in mind when you jump out to kill him. 85% of the time they will be too high or too far out to do any effect ledge guarding, so just camp the stage and wait for his up-b to finish.
c) The parachute grab. Just grab his parachute when he up-b's against the stage. As olimar's pikmin can grab people when they are on the stage, they can also grab his parachute lower than most people's grabs. keep that in mind. Watch out for the sneaky snakes though, they might let go of their parachute and hit you and then mine themselves back on the ledge or to get another up-b higher up so you can't grab his parachute. IF you predict this then you can anticipate the mine blowing up and prepair for a fair or a spike as he blows himself upwards.


As far as disadvantages go... don't be the fool to run into his tilts randomly. Space yourself away from him, run away if you have to and be prepared to grab him!

2) easily edge-guarded---this goes both ways. You can edge guard him, but he can edge guard you as well. BE PREPARED for the b-air, it's very large hit box and kills you pretty much instantly if hit when having no double jump. try to fair him unexpectedly before he can b-air or just air dodge. It's good to save whistle for this time to if you have good prediction timing.

3) mines--watch out on Lylat and other dark stages, mines can cause you to go above him into his dam juggling or even kill you. Pay attention to his moves and make sure you don't forget about the mines o.O

4) being juggled---it all comes down to watch out for his mortar slide. If he can mortar slide you above him it's hard to land if he stays below you. His up-tilt is rediculous and you can't just air dodge past it because when you hit the ground he can hit you before you can shield.

Anyways, this is all I have right now. It all comes down to patience and watching out for his quick moves like mortar slide and f-tilt. I hope this helps some of you, so good luck fighting those snakes!

 

[Kabuto Mushi]

All right--here is how I fight GOOD snakes and some to-do's and not to-do's

Advantages:

1) Grab out of mortar slide -- a lot of snakes like to get close, whether it's a good thing to do against Olimar or not. But it happens, so watch for it.
2) COUNTER PICK STAGES -- This is how I can keep up in tourneys with stages. There are 3 amazing counter-pick stages against snake as Olimar. I will go into detail below.
3) Combo's and juggling (sometimes juggling is possible)
4) Pikmin throwing on explosives/grenade spammers
5) Edge-guarding

Disadvantages:

1) Snake Tilts (obviously)
2) Easily edge-guarded
3) Invisible mines in dark levels (like Lylat--probably won't see if you missed the plant)
4) Being juggled/kept in air






Advantage details:
1) Grab out of Mortar Slide: Obviously this is the most known olimar vs. snake tactic, and can be used completely to your advantage in the matchup. Snake can keep you juggled if you allow him to get you in the air with this mortar slide...which is extremely annoying.

2) COUNTER PICK STAGES: This is the one big thing I could suggest to Olimar players vs. Snakes. Pick a good counter-pick stage! Here are 3 of them I have found to be quite...acceptable.

a) Norfair -- No more super sliding snake! haha! This isn't the only reason to pick this level vs. a snake either. Because he can keep you edgeguarded so well, you have a chance to land in rising lava once gimped. Not only that, but you can recover in THREE (yes 3) different sections on both sides of the stages. You can play extreme mind games with this as well. You can stand on the very top platform, SPAMMING pikmin as quickly and wait for the snake to approach, quickly hug, drop down to the bottom and jump up and u-air him into a juggle or combo. A good way to play against snake here is to spam pikmin and continuously run around (avoid a snake player if he stands on the bottom middle platform and waits for you--just keep throwing pikmin at him because he is very secure on that platform. This also calls for a longer match, but it doesn't have to be played that way.

b) Brinstar -- Brinstar is a very good counter-pick for snakes as well. You can ledge camp and jump under the level and u-air, but that can be a bit risky. You also have the multi-platform recovery options like Norfair, and the lava to help you. This also forces snake to move around--the lava. He can't just camp the bottom every moment of the match. But keep in mind, he can keep you off the top platform if the lava rises to it's full height. This matchup isn't as well as Norfair, but it half-way eliminates gimps. Snakes do well against Olimar because he is just so easy to kill.

c) Finally -- Luigi's Mansion: This can be an extremely well thought counter-pick against a snake if he bans Norfair. You can camp one of the bottom corners, which can be a large advantage for you. Snakes might try to mortar slide to get close to you, allowing you about 2 seconds to react and grab him. IF you can pull off a grab on him, throw him UPWARDS if he is not in the middle, this will throw him into the ceiling. He would then bounce downwards and lead to you multiply up-smashing him into ceiling, back down, again, etc. Really good players still usually get hit by at least 1-2 smashes before they tech it, but that's a 30-40 % damage increase on their sides. Another thing to watch for would be snakes starting to grenade camp you if you keep running to the bottom away from him. Easily dodge-able just by throwing pikmin to stop his grenades in mid-air, or by moving to the top platform (but don't let him get under you!

3) As far as combos and juggling go, there are plenty of responses to those just read. Keep in mind that up-air and white pikmin are good ways to rack up damage.

4) Obviously won't need to get into pikmin and explosions.

5) MOST IMPORTANT is your edge-guarding!!!
a) A LOT of people try to jump out there and try to spike him, because spike knocks him out of his parachute. Only do this when it is IN REACH of your first jump, or if they are are medium-close range. Don't get impatient and jump out if he's just going to parachute above you. Wait for him to get to the stage and up-air him, but watch out for his air dodge and punish. mind games can be used if you think he is going to air dodge your u-air. This is a game of patience vs. snake!
b) FAIR knocks out of his parachute when he is at higher percentage, and so do purple pikmin. Keep this in mind when you jump out to kill him. 85% of the time they will be too high or too far out to do any effect ledge guarding, so just camp the stage and wait for his up-b to finish.
c) The parachute grab. Just grab his parachute when he up-b's against the stage. As olimar's pikmin can grab people when they are on the stage, they can also grab his parachute lower than most people's grabs. keep that in mind. Watch out for the sneaky snakes though, they might let go of their parachute and hit you and then mine themselves back on the ledge or to get another up-b higher up so you can't grab his parachute. IF you predict this then you can anticipate the mine blowing up and prepair for a fair or a spike as he blows himself upwards.


As far as disadvantages go... don't be the fool to run into his tilts randomly. Space yourself away from him, run away if you have to and be prepared to grab him!

2) easily edge-guarded---this goes both ways. You can edge guard him, but he can edge guard you as well. BE PREPARED for the b-air, it's very large hit box and kills you pretty much instantly if hit when having no double jump. try to fair him unexpectedly before he can b-air or just air dodge. It's good to save whistle for this time to if you have good prediction timing.

3) mines--watch out on Lylat and other dark stages, mines can cause you to go above him into his dam juggling or even kill you. Pay attention to his moves and make sure you don't forget about the mines o.O

4) being juggled---it all comes down to watch out for his mortar slide. If he can mortar slide you above him it's hard to land if he stays below you. His up-tilt is rediculous and you can't just air dodge past it because when you hit the ground he can hit you before you can shield.

Anyways, this is all I have right now. It all comes down to patience and watching out for his quick moves like mortar slide and f-tilt. I hope this helps some of you, so good luck fighting those snakes!

That's cool, I guess, but am I the only one who feels really cheap because they have to "counterpick" stages to win? I'd rather my victories (even if there aren't any to be had in the first place, which in my case seems likely) be on neutral stages like Battlefield and the like.

 

[IcyLight]

Those were just some suggestions for a few good counterpicks, the real battle is just watching for good edge guarding moments and grabbing out of his f-tilts and mortar slides

 

[Rocann]

AndyG(Olimar) vs Lambchops(Snake) 1 (ignore the recovery mishaps)
AndyG(Olimar) vs Lambchops(Snake) 2
AndyG(Olimar) vs Lambchops(Snake) 3
AndyG(Olimar) vs Lambchops(Snake) 4

I HIGHLY recommend you watch them all in high quality (to the lower-right of the video screen is the thing you have to click, it says watch in high quality.) so you can see grenades and stuff.

 

[NC-Echo]

That's cool, I guess, but am I the only one who feels really cheap because they have to "counterpick" stages to win? I'd rather my victories (even if there aren't any to be had in the first place, which in my case seems likely) be on neutral stages like Battlefield and the like.

Counter picking is an extremely important dynamic of tournament play.

edit: to some extent I do understand/agree but counter pick stages add another element to tournament play that wouldn't otherwise be there and there is a whole lot of strategy behind it.

 

[Dr. Hyde]

... am I the only one who feels really cheap because they have to "counterpick" stages to win?

Counterpicking is only sent to you if you lose the first round. If you win then your opponent has to beat you on a stage of their choice. I see nothing cheap. It the same as choose to receive or which field goal you want.

 

[Kabuto Mushi]

Counterpicking is only sent to you if you lose the first round. If you win then your opponent has to beat you on a stage of their choice. I see nothing cheap. It the same as choose to receive or which field goal you want.

O yeah. Well, when you say it that way it seems more fair.

 

[Riot_ Fires]

Yeah i will admit to being mindgamed by snakes f-tilt to edgegaurd so badly i freaked because i was outprioritized and because of its slight range.. Freaked out enough he pretty much killed me by f-tilt to edgeguard alone..

My current friend who plays snake has good camp/ mindgames that ive been used to before but rarely uses tilts which is why such a simple move completely messed me up.. Have been looking into workin around that for next time..

But agreed about snake being a difficult opponent especially once hes got you off the edge which can be easily if you allow it.. Just keep ontop of his projectiles.. Remember that red pikmin go through his nikita rocket and latch onto him also deflecting the missile.. Thats all i know about snake tho tbh so be interesting reading more..

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

Those were just some suggestions for a few good counterpicks, the real battle is just watching for good edge guarding moments and grabbing out of his f-tilts and mortar slides

Wait a minute... I thought you didn't post here...

Mindgames'd again!

You should get some norfair matches on tape!

 

[NC-Echo]

Here are the videos i promised.

Olimar (NC-Echo) vs. Zero Suit Samus (El Cancel)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai5PLb4cGds

Olimar (NC-Echo) vs. Snake (El Cancel)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfRnr4xrRfI

Olimar (NC-Echo) vs. Snake (El Cancel) 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR0Q9QVBmhA

Olimar (NC-Echo) vs. Captain Falcon (El Cancel)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBnnDeIg5Mo

Olimar (NC-Echo) vs. Captain Falcon (El Cancel) 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaTvwgVPOzw

Olimar (NC-Echo) vs. Ganondorf (El Cancel)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTlLMIgJO8E

Olimar (NC-Echo) vs. Ganondorf (El Cancel) 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKgxuhw0Fus

Olimar (NC-Echo) vs. Ike (El Cancel)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGp9o0vZhdc

Things to look out for:
-The match vs. Zero Suit Samus. Its a great match for one and secondly there is a new Olimar technique I have been working on right at the end.
-The second match vs. Snake shows off a pretty good/reliable/relatively easy combo I have worked out vs. Snake.

So like I said watch for this new techniques because I think it can both be pretty useful.

 

[nyhustler208]

how do u hug a snake i dnt no how to hug

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

Run off the edge, and immediately hit towards the edge and you should grab it.

 

[Dr. Hyde]

you may have revived my will to play brawl echo. good job. I have known that the down throw combo worked on falco but I didn't know for snake and a little for falcon.

 

[Kashakunaki]

Two questions

1. Can you grab cypher as Olimar?

2. I wish I could remember this question...

EDIT: I remember. Why does Echo Down B then Up B in his matches when recovering?

Don't tell me "SA frames" or I'll slap you. Does it give you extra height or something?

 

[ne_Ziggy]

Two questions

1. Can you grab cypher as Olimar?

2. I wish I could remember this question...

EDIT: I remember. Why does Echo Down B then Up B in his matches when recovering?

Don't tell me "SA frames" or I'll slap you. Does it give you extra height or something?

It's for doing what the move is intended for. Ordering Pikmin. (You normally want purples in front to knock off edgehoggers)

 

[NC-Echo]

Why does Echo Down B then Up B in his matches when recovering?

Often times it is to re-order not necessary to a purple just to something else and sometimes I do it just to remind my opponent of super armor. You'd be surprised how often I have seen people back off after I whistle just because they are reminded of the super armor and are afraid that if they attack I'll cancel it and hit them instead.

 

[Kashakunaki]

I see, but I think that's rather useless then.

For starters if you were ordering, specifically to Purples for recovering, you'd want to do it as far out as possible, not when you're right next to the edge.

Also, it may work as a simple "scare tactic" but there were many times in simply two or three matches that you did that and died when you would've lived if you hadn't whistles and just Up Bed for the ledge or just tried to land on the stage. It seems like it got you killed more than anything.

 

[nevershootme]

as for grabbing cypher out of snake, well the pikmin pretty much jumps off the edge and returns to you when you attempt to grab from the edge. But it is very likely you can grab the cypher.

 

[scalpel]

Guys, we're not making much progress here. The purpose of this thread was to understand why Snake is troublesome to Olimar, and find ways to counter these reasons. Instead of ooo'ing and ah'ing at NC-Echo's videos, we should be analyzing his matches with Snake and see what the problem is. NC-Echo made this thread because he was having troubles with Snake - a common occurrence with most Olimar players that play against good Snake players. Let's focus on figuring out how to eliminate as many problems as we can with Snake, so that we can all improve our game against Snakes, ultimately.