Let's talk about: Down Throw to Down Air and Other Kill Set-ups

[Apollo Ali]

Hey guys.

It's been brought to my attention a few times that I don't very consistently have kill set ups with Link. Particularly, I am pretty unable to consistently get a down air off of a down throw. Occasionally, I'm able to get it but when I flub it either a.) the dair doesn't reach in time or b.) a dash attack comes out (this also happens when i go for bair resets). Does anybody have any tips for not messing this up or for training this? The jump timing feels very awkward.

Other kill set ups are:
jab jab up b (which I have to incorporate more),
d throw to up b against spacies at higher percentages percentages...
d+tilt or boomerang to forward air
What else? I don't want all my kills to rely on random hits. Seems like a bad policy.

 

[Nemiak temp]

You have to input a dash before you jump and dair after the d-throw, not sure if that is your issue though. Regardless its a pretty tough window to time it right on most characters. Around 90% on fox/falco/wolf and maybe falcon you can get a Dair off an up-throw. Jab Jab up-b is Gdlk against floaties but against most characters if they are grounded they can CC the jabs and grab you before the hitbox of the up-b is out. Still use it, but just be wary of crouch cancelling. Dsmash is your best friend against fast fallers/spacies. Intercept fox/falcos recovery with dsmash at a high percent and you can get a fair in most of the time. Link has a lot of sweetspot areas which are slightly different in every matchup where he can do SOMETHING to combo into a kill move so try to learn those to the best of your ability. (Zair-dair, falling up air to full hop dair, rang-fair etc etc)

 

[Deleted member]

practice dthrow > dair on MK at around 100, it will kill before that but its good to train around that %

jab > jab> up-B is more for floaty characters at higher %. be careful with this though because it can be smash DI'd on reaction and your up-B will be punished.

SH boomerang/ returning boomerang > fair/up-B/dair is something you need to have down. practice the spacing on different characters and stages at ~100%. in real matches landing this combo is basically prediction and reaction.

tech chasing is the other way i usually get kills. by controlling the center of the stage and forcing your opponent into quick teching or rolling away allows you to land meaty fairs or fsmashes.

the real thing to practice is edge guarding, that's where the big time kills come into play. UP-B semi spike edge guarding is amazing at ~70. Nair/ double nair/bair gimping is also extremely strong. the problem with off stage/Up-B edge guarding is the fact that it's high risk high reward. if it work out, great, you probably just gained the lead. if it doesnt work out, like i said before, you just screwed yourself by putting yourself into a terrible position.

the way to set these up correctly is by using your items correctly. know what angles your boomerangs can cover, know what angles your bombs can cover. i personally do not use arrows to edge guard because for the most part, they're trash. the time you waste charging an arrow and being stationary is time you could be setting up space control or just grabbing the ledge. the only time i personally use arrows is when i launch my opponent to the opposite side of the stage, and i do a running sh, no-charge arrow to stop a quick ledge grab. what i do is float my boomerang out to cover space and either drop a bomb (if they're as high or under the ledge) or throw a bomb upwards (if they're above the ledge.) you're basically trying to cover as much space as possible using projectile launchers that will lead into any move that will kill.

of course all of that is match up dependent on what character you're playing. some characters you have to alter what space you control, and how/if you're able to gimp them.

hope this helps

 

[ITALIAN N1NJA]

Well spoken seaN ' but one thing. On the contrary, arrows are useful for edgegaurding. Shooting an arrow angled at an opponent attempting to recover will knock them back and force them to use the recovery from further away which may kill them. Also if your in the air can charge an arrow and move at the same time. When opponents are level with the stage attempting to recover, as they're coming back you can shoot a charged arrow at them which can kill them and is very lethal. The good part about this is that if your accurate enough, they'll have the option of either getting hit by the arrow and stalling their recovery allowing for more time for you to set up an edgegaurd, or they can try to air dodge it which will result in their death or an edgegaurd from you.

 

[SHIP]

F tilt is also good for edgeguarding because it hits below the ledge in a similar manner to marth's fsmash

On the combo side down throw to up air works as a kill move on characters to light for down throw down air.

Down throw upB is great against heavies and fastfallers. You can also sometimes condition people playing other characters to DI into it if you use u tilt and u air a lot out of your grabs.

 

[Wolf_]

You have to input a dash before you jump and dair after the d-throw, not sure if that is your issue though. Regardless its a pretty tough window to time it right on most characters. Around 90% on fox/falco/wolf and maybe falcon you can get a Dair off an up-throw. Jab Jab up-b is Gdlk against floaties but against most characters if they are grounded they can CC the jabs and grab you before the hitbox of the up-b is out. Still use it, but just be wary of crouch cancelling. Dsmash is your best friend against fast fallers/spacies. Intercept fox/falcos recovery with dsmash at a high percent and you can get a fair in most of the time. Link has a lot of sweetspot areas which are slightly different in every matchup where he can do SOMETHING to combo into a kill move so try to learn those to the best of your ability. (Zair-dair, falling up air to full hop dair, rang-fair etc etc)

Listen to this guy, he deals with my Link bull**** on a daily basis

 

[Fenrir VII]

Yeah I'd say the one big setup that you're missing is Zair > Dair, Fair, or Uair, depending on %.

But really, if you have a safe attack like bombs, boomerang, or Zair that combos into a kill move, I wouldn't really call that relying on random hits.

(Also SH Bair > UpB is amazing in certain matchups)

 

[Nemiak temp]

Stop using Ftilt and dtilt period

 

[Apollo Ali]

I'm pretty sure I got some f-tilt kills on @ Nemiak temp this weekend. RIGHT????

 

[Problem2]

Around 80% ~ 85% is the magic percent where d-throw -> sword spin will kill the fast fallers.

 

[Nemiak temp]

Around 80% ~ 85% is the magic percent where d-throw -> sword spin will kill the fast fallers.

This is grossly innacurate. Maybe with bad DI. I live as fox past 120% to this and after a certain percent it just doesn't work because I can DI out of the dthrow before the up-b. I wouldn't bother with this until after 110 and hope your opponent can't SDI

I'm pretty sure I got some f-tilt kills on @ Nemiak temp this weekend. RIGHT????

UMMMMMMMM. Yeah you did.
And every time it happened I thought wow what a garbage move I can't believe I got hit by that

 

[Problem2]

A lot of players DI away from D-throw, so them dying to the up-b itself might be inaccurate. However, up-b has a high chance of putting them in a bad position anyways. I'll make sure to test it more at my next meet-up.

 

[ImpossiblyRood]

I myself haven't had too much trouble going from dthrow to dair. The only advice I can say is to pop out the dair as you jump and follow your opponent's DI.

As another option, I like using fthrow to fair or bomb/boomerang to fair. If it hits, you have an opportunity, if they shield you can grab. It's not super complex and it hinges on a couple of factors (spacing, damage, shield or not) but I find it comes in handy more often than not. Link's ftilt is a lovely invention.

 

[NickRiddle]

I can't find a real reason to use f-tilt outside of randomness or occasional edgeguarding...

 

[Fenrir VII]

I can't find a real reason to use f-tilt outside of randomness or occasional edgeguarding...

Eh from what I've seen, there's not a lot of reason to use it in neutral. It's a decent spacing tool for anti-air and horizontal distance, but I think there are generally better options for any situation. Jab jab f-tilt isn't terrible, considering the short cooldown with good range.

Now for edgeguarding, I think f-tilt might be your best on-stage option, since it hits lower than anything else.. I think Link should usually go off stage to edgeguard, but you sometimes don't have the time to do so. In that regard, I think it's decently equatable to CF's utilt.

 

[Strawhat Jiggs]

Eh from what I've seen, there's not a lot of reason to use it in neutral. It's a decent spacing tool for anti-air and horizontal distance, but I think there are generally better options for any situation. Jab jab f-tilt isn't terrible, considering the short cooldown with good range.

Now for edgeguarding, I think f-tilt might be your best on-stage option, since it hits lower than anything else.. I think Link should usually go off stage to edgeguard, but you sometimes don't have the time to do so. In that regard, I think it's decently equatable to CF's utilt.

Edge gimping with boomerang is also pretty viable.

 

[Deleted member]

the only good thing about ftilt is that it trades with everything, and since link is a monster in this game, if your opponent trades with ftilt at high % they're dead

 

[ImpossiblyRood]

Edge gimping with boomerang is also pretty viable.

My problem with using the boomerang (or bombs, which are far worse) is that they have a habit of popping people up or towards the stage. Arrows (while harder to hit reliably) do better for ranged edge-guarding. Except, of course, if you're snubbing jumps. Boomerangs are great for that, assuming it can reach.

 

[Fenrir VII]

protip: If opponents learn to recover low because it's hard for link to cover (or to wall jump, w/e), drop a bomb just past the ledge... makes them adjust their spacing or get hit by it. If the bomb hits, it pops them up real nice for a Fair/Dair kill.

 

[Strawhat Jiggs]

My problem with using the boomerang (or bombs, which are far worse) is that they have a habit of popping people up or towards the stage. Arrows (while harder to hit reliably) do better for ranged edge-guarding. Except, of course, if you're snubbing jumps. Boomerangs are great for that, assuming it can reach.

Ya agreed you only snubb jumps with the boomerang if you have good spacing and when your opponent is at the stage of there recovery were you can hit them.