Social Let's Hit the Climax! Bayonetta on Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Social Thread

[Robbie_Haruna]

Lima actually makes me think Bayo may be high tier.

Ehhhh... I'd say it's more his sheer skill making up for her mediocrity.

 

[Call_Me_Red]

Ehhhh... I'd say it's more his sheer skill making up for her mediocrity.

True, but when I see him pull off a 50% combo into a combo off the side, at least we know there's potential.

 

[blackghost]

50 percent isnt much in this game. most bayo combos only get 30-40 percent. top tiers in ultimate can get 60 plus. peach can do 70 from a grab. same with pichu. lima, zack, and tamim are just that good and if they just played their peaches instead of bayo theyd win a large events.

 

[Call_Me_Red]

I'm so confused how to win with Bayo. What do I do in neutral? Spam side b? What do I to kill? Spam back air?

I get she has combos but she has literally nothing else. And sometimes the platform will just straight up stop your combo and it feels like it's unavoidable. She is so frustrating to play as, but God I love it.

 

[Ulk]

50 percent isnt much in this game. most bayo combos only get 30-40 percent. top tiers in ultimate can get 60 plus. peach can do 70 from a grab. same with pichu. lima, zack, and tamim are just that good and if they just played their peaches instead of bayo theyd win a large events.

Outdated post, but I also need to add that low tiers reaching higher levels in competitive play in the hands of top players isn't anything special. Outside the hands of those top players, Bayonetta is nothing more than any other low tier in this game.

 

[Phoenix_is_OK]

Well guys we lost Lima. Our last Bayonetta player seems to be Geist. Hopefully Nintendo sees this as a sign that "hey, maybe this character needs to be fixed just a bit"

Absurd landing lag, zero throw pressure before 160%, zero shield pressure, absurdly laggy smashes that have more endlag than Ganon's but kill much later, Smash Attacks clank with everything, moves that people fall out of/ can tech out of (side B, Up tilt, side tilt), laggy bullet arts, Fsmash blindspot, frame 8 counter with a full second of endlag that only works past 90%, you can get outprioritized in your own counter, witch twist doesn't ledge snap, no charge drop, gutted kill moves from previous game (see: Nair and Uair), Fair has 12 frames of landing lag for some reason, techable jab, etc etc etc.

Fix literally any of those things, and she has a chance. But as is, the character is absolutely terrible. You have to outplay your opponent 70% of the match to win.

 

[Call_Me_Red]

Well guys we lost Lima. Our last Bayonetta player seems to be Geist. Hopefully Nintendo sees this as a sign that "hey, maybe this character needs to be fixed just a bit"

Absurd landing lag, zero throw pressure before 160%, zero shield pressure, absurdly laggy smashes that have more endlag than Ganon's but kill much later, Smash Attacks clank with everything, moves that people fall out of/ can tech out of (side B, Up tilt, side tilt), laggy bullet arts, Fsmash blindspot, frame 8 counter with a full second of endlag that only works past 90%, you can get outprioritized in your own counter, witch twist doesn't ledge snap, no charge drop, gutted kill moves from previous game (see: Nair and Uair), Fair has 12 frames of landing lag for some reason, techable jab, etc etc etc.

Fix literally any of those things, and she has a chance. But as is, the character is absolutely terrible. You have to outplay your opponent 70% of the match to win.

Really all I want is some solid kill options. Bair is fine, but when it's the only reliable tool it become predictable. I would love a F throw buff, and for smash attacks to be more consistent. I can live with her mediocre combo game, or her decades of end lag, and even her lack of neutral if she just gets kill options. Please Sakurai, it's time to go vroom.

 

[ぱみゅ]

I personally would only like for her combos/specials to link better into themselves, and reduce her special lag a bit to make it more aligned with the game's general flow.
I am fine if she struggles to kill since she'd rack up percents better, and Witch Time would become a niche defensive option with similar purposes as her Smashes (though a slight duration buff wouldn't hurt).

Her grab game as of right now seems fine; if anything make Uthrow set up for juggles better, but right now it feels ok: Fthrow is a late killer, Dthrow is a (rather inconsistent) combo starter, and Bthrow can be used for sending the opponent offstage.

And she does have shield pressure, which is specially good against opponents on a platform. Against grounded opponents you can kinda pressure them, but your normals are slow and your specials induce tons of lag so... yeah... always ban FD.

 

[Wunderwaft]

How do you actually fight Snake as Bayonetta?
This match up feels like a complete curb stomp.

 

[ぱみゅ]

The matchup is a nightmare.
I am not sure what your best options are though, everything is unsafe.
Just make sure to NEVER lose grenades or C4s from sight.
Bayonetta's best tool period is ABK, but most of his moves beat it anyway.
And be careful with platform pressure, he can pull a grenade and hide in his shield to stay safe while making you explode.
But landing is his weakest attribute, try to capitalise on it by throwing attacks and keeping yourself low to the ground.
You might want to chase him offstage, that's fine but always remember he has tons of mixups, some potentially lethal.
Uair (and Bullet Arts) is probably the best tool against Nikita, but isn't 100% certain.
And yes, it feels impossible to approach to him,

Welcome to the average matchup of a low tier vs a top tier (or polarising high tier).

 

[Phoenix_is_OK]

I'm double checking frame data here, Witch Time appears to be 66 frames, not 67.

 

[Call_Me_Red]

How's everyone enjoying their new buffed Bayonetta? Oh wait.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Existence is pain.

Spoiler

 

[Megadoomer]

https://en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/45405

Bayonetta seems to have gotten a decent amount of buffs in this patch.

Neutral Attack 1: Increased the amount of time hit detection lasts.

Flurry Attack Finish: Extended launch distance.

Dash Attack: Extended launch distance for the high-damage range.

Up Tilt Attack: Made it easier to hit multiple times.

Down Smash Attack: Increased the amount of time hit detection lasts.

Side Special: Reduced vulnerability when landing.

Up Special: Reduced vulnerability when landing.

Down Special: Increased the amount of time counter detection lasts. Increased the amount of time Bat Within’s detection lasts. Increased the recovery speed of Witch Time's duration.

I'm particularly glad that her dash attack was buffed; it seemed practically useless compared to how it was in Smash 4.

 

[Phoenix_is_OK]

https://en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/45405

Bayonetta seems to have gotten a decent amount of buffs in this patch.

Neutral Attack 1: Increased the amount of time hit detection lasts.

Flurry Attack Finish: Extended launch distance.

Dash Attack: Extended launch distance for the high-damage range.

Up Tilt Attack: Made it easier to hit multiple times.

Down Smash Attack: Increased the amount of time hit detection lasts.

Side Special: Reduced vulnerability when landing.

Up Special: Reduced vulnerability when landing.

Down Special: Increased the amount of time counter detection lasts. Increased the amount of time Bat Within’s detection lasts. Increased the recovery speed of Witch Time's duration.

I'm particularly glad that her dash attack was buffed; it seemed practically useless compared to how it was in Smash 4.

Fair 1 2 into Jab looks like a kill confirm. This is good ****

 

[ぱみゅ]

Fair 1 2 into Jab looks like a kill confirm. This is good ****

My brother tested fair1 fast fall fair2 rapid jab for me

This was done at 130% (IF HE LISTENED) pic.twitter.com/zUlWwIa7MV

— FEAR | Geist (@GeistBayo) May 31, 2019

Slept for sixhundred years months, but now Bayo seems to have a bright future ahead.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

The reduction of landing lags with the Afterburner Kick and Witch Twist is a godsend. It was worse than Smash 4, now it's on par when doing one attack, and it's even better than Smash 4 when doing ABK x 2 + Witch Twist x 2.

39 frames of landing lag instead of 50, it's so noticeable.

 

[Call_Me_Red]

Oh my god guys I'm so happy. Is Bayo...viable?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

It'll be interesting to see if people who previously dropped Bayonetta will pick her back up again.

 

[Call_Me_Red]

It'll be interesting to see if people who previously dropped Bayonetta will pick her back up again.

Personally I'm giving her another chance. I forgot how fun she was, and now I feel like the meta has advanced and we have slightly more kill power. It feels good, honestly.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Witch Time is threatening again and having new kill options like Dash Attack is a godsend.

But she still is a combo-oriented character whose combos don't always work and opponents often fall from them, and none of her kill options are safe.
At least she doesn't feel hopeless like she used to, that made her fun to play as once again.

 

[Call_Me_Red]

Witch Time is threatening again and having new kill options like Dash Attack is a godsend.

But she still is a combo-oriented character whose combos don't always work and opponents often fall from them, and none of her kill options are safe.
At least she doesn't feel hopeless like she used to, that made her fun to play as once again.

Hella agreed. I'm actually having fun playing as her again. I still get the nagging in the back of my head that she's not worth the time, but then I do a sweet combo off the side and it feels better again.

Idk, I know the buffs weren't perfect, but jab being able to kill along with the Witch Time buff makes me believe.

So guys, it's been almost 2 weeks since the buffs. What's everyone's opinions?

I feel like Bayo is vastly improved, and now that everyone's over the initial nerf from ssb4, we can move on with what we actually have. I still think Bayo is lacking in certain departments, mainly ending lag and priority. But I think in the right, well trained hands she can be a real threat.

 

[Kokiden]

Post patch she's a bit better. Less end lag on her specials does help, and WT improving a bit means I can actually use it in my arsenal now lol.

That said, viability wise, in the right hands, I think she can do ok, as Captain Zack demonstrated at SnS. Not great. Just ok.

You'll need a secondary though. She's still not good enough to solo main.

 

[KatKit]

Pre-patch, I thought she was decent... not as over-tuned as she used to be, but not terrible or anything. After the recent adjustments, I think she's totally viable, especially in the right hands and in certain matchups; she's pretty solid. I know it's anecdotal evidence, but every committed Bayonetta player I've run into online is crazy good (and the buffs only made them scarier). In time, I think more people will start picking her up again.

 

[Call_Me_Red]

Pre-patch, I thought she was decent... not as over-tuned as she used to be, but not terrible or anything. After the recent adjustments, I think she's totally viable, especially in the right hands and in certain matchups; she's pretty solid. I know it's anecdotal evidence, but every committed Bayonetta player I've run into online is crazy good (and the buffs only made them scarier). In time, I think more people will start picking her up again.

I can't help but feel like she has some hidden, unlocked potential that's only untapped because nobody plays her. Idk, I guess we gotta play her more to find out.

 

[Kokiden]

I can't help but feel like she has some hidden, unlocked potential that's only untapped because nobody plays her. Idk, I guess we gotta play her more to find out.

Captain Zack's Twitch stream lately has him playing Bayo only. He's got some sick combos in that. I think he's the best person to learn from right now, aside from personal play that is.

 

[Phoenix_is_OK]

I don't think she is viable yet, but she isn't in the worst position either really. She's a hard character to succeed with and Zack is starting to achieve some awesome feats with her, but the cracks are showing. He's carrying the character. With that said, I feel we are close to winning some tournaments now. Assuming we get buffed during the next patch, we could be a tournament contender again.

 

[Kokiden]

I don't think she is viable yet, but she isn't in the worst position either really. She's a hard character to succeed with and Zack is starting to achieve some awesome feats with her, but the cracks are showing. He's carrying the character. With that said, I feel we are close to winning some tournaments now. Assuming we get buffed during the next patch, we could be a tournament contender again.

They’re being extremely cautious and conservative with a Bayonetta.

The fact that it took this long to get any decent buffs means they’re going to be monitoring her results closely to make sure she doesn’t dominate.

I think it will be awhile before we see a decent patch again.

 

[Kokiden]

https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/platinum-games-explains-bayonetta-3s-e3-no-show/

In case anyone was wondering.

Development is going well, and they think it’s a bad PR move to reveal something at every E3. Just because they’re not showing it doesn’t mean it’s not going well.

It’s going to be a big title that will have a different structure from its predecessors.

A part of me is worried about that. I hope it ends up being a great title despite the structural change.

 

[Call_Me_Red]

"different structure"

I don't like the sound of that.

 

[SuperSceptile15]

Happy tenth anniversary to Bayonetta!

 

[Megadoomer]

https://en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/49877

Patch 8.0 is out, and Bayonetta seems to have gotten some buffs. I'm not sure how big of an improvement most of these are, but her side special has "reduced vulnerability", her up tilt has increased attack speed, and her up special shortened the distance that an opponent can move with hitstun shuffling when repeatedly hit (which sounds like it means that it's harder to escape from, but I'm not sure), among other improvements.

 

[Kokiden]

Yes! She finally got buffed.

Something is better than nothing, so I'm glad for that. Can't wait to try them out later.

I think reducing lag is a big improvement for her. She was already so slow to begin with, or maybe I'm jumping the gun lol. Have to give her a go after this patch first!

 

[Kokiden]

Welp Bayonetta still remains as disappointing as ever even post patch.

Funny since she got a "big buff" and she's hardly improved. This is probably as good as it's going to get for her unfortunately. WT remains atrocious and her priority when exchanging blows is 90% her getting overcome.

 

[Altais]

I still wish they would restore her to her former Smash 4 glory, without making her overpowered. Mine idea is that the higher the enemy's damage percent, the more hitstun Bayonetta's attacks deal, thus making her combos harder to escape. This way, opponents at 0% can easily escape and not be dragged up into the blast zone at the start of the match. Although, I don't know how hard that would be to implement.

 

[Megadoomer]

PlatinumGames hopes to give an update on Bayonetta 3 and more in 2021

When PlatinumGames is asked about Bayonetta 3, you tend to get the same response. Aside from the studio constantly reassuring fans that development is going well, we haven’t really heard much about the game. That’s been the case since the project was originally announced at The Game Awards in...

nintendoeverything.com

Here's hoping that the update is substantial, as opposed to another "we're working on it!" with no signs that they're actually working on it. (no screenshots, trailers, gameplay, etc.) I want to get my hopes up, but it's been three years since the announcement with absolutely no new info.

 

[ぱみゅ]

"Development is going fine"
My only relief will be if they do confirm a Switch pro and Bayo 3 has special capabilities with it.

 

[Megadoomer]

Bayonetta 3 finally has a trailer!

Though I'm not sure if Hellena Taylor is voicing Bayo in the game, going by this Tweet:

Well you might have to.

— Hellena Taylor (@hellenataylor) September 12, 2021

The game's scheduled for a 2022 release.

Spoiler

Not sure if the new enemies are different versions of angels, or if they're based on something in Japanese mythology. I'm pretty sure the person who sliced the release date at the end is a redesigned Jeanne, going by the stuffed animals attached to the sword. I'm not a fan of Bayonetta's redesign, but maybe it will grow on me, and I'm sure they'll have the option to choose her Bayo 1 and 2 outfits.

 

[Pacack]

I just wanted to share this post I made on reddit here also. It's a deep dive on moon-related jazz standards.

 

[osby]

I just wanted to share this post I made on reddit here also. It's a deep dive on moon-related jazz standards.

That's a surprisingly in-depth analysis.

I'd like to see a Climax mix for most of the songs included.