Random4811
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2014
- Messages
- 413
- NNID
- Random4811
- 3DS FC
- 3093-7532-1720
Zelda wins a matchup? When?Let's see...
I'd say, Zelda will be having a bit of a hard time with him. She has to have a slight advantage over characters that camp and charge, since she can reflect. Cloud's the only one that has a non-projectile charge, that he can camp with.
The only thing she has over him is that she can edgeguard him, but that applys to pretty much every character Vs. Cloud anyway.
So, I'm guessing Cloud Vs. Zelda is... 70-30? Or 60-40, maybe? Either way, I think its a free win for Cloud.
but in all seriousness I think this might be one of Zoldas worst match ups, It is the freest win ever.
Recovering low enough to bait out bowling ball, and saving your jump can be relatively safe vs. villager. Your recovery will end and send you into free fall before villager can drop a second ball, and as soon as Clim 1 is over, you magnet to the ledgeActually, that would be the only recovery option he -always- has. If he's knocked high enough into the air compared to his horizontal, he has the option of recovering down as well(climhazzard downslash ledgesnaps if above stage). Still not safe against villager, but a lot safer than recovering up. And villager still easily has the advantage.
V.S
This one for Cloud is rather hard. Here's why:
Pros For Cloud:
+Against offstage, Cloud can fairly well spike Villager's Up Recovery with a simple D-Air or F-Air
+Villager is a rather light character so Cloud's punishments means good knockback against Villager.
+Villager's Side B can rather be avoided and punished by a jump and N-Air
+ Villagers D-air or N-air can't defend well of Clouds Up-Air
Cons For Cloud:
-Cloud only has one recovery option: Up. All villager needs to do is camp near a ledge and once you recover, he could easily drop a bowling ball on your head and could kill you around near 50-60%.
-If that 1 second of exposure before you grab the ledge from your recovery is still not there, and if Villager cuts down that tree, prepare for punishment.
-Villager could cancel Cloud's slow projectile with Side B.
-Villager's F-air/B-air is hard for to approach. Not to mention it's a good for gimping Cloud offstage
-Against a Villager, Cloud will most likely need to be the one who approaches, Since Villagers defensive options are good. Even still, it's bad to rush a villager down.
-If you charge up your Limit Break Blade Beam and throw it at him, Villager players just need to tap the B button and now he has your Limit Break Blade Beam. (I don't know how long he can hold it though.)
-Villagers grab could reach about the same as most of Clouds attacks. (But it is still slow)
Anyways, this is all I can think of for now. If you can help me out of this (or if there is something I got wrong) don't be afraid to reply. (Just to keep in note, this is the first time I've done this.)
+Heres the thing, Cloud /doesnt/ have to approach villager. He can sit and charge limit. Lloyd is a joke to any character with a good disjoint, especially cloud. A fair covers his front completely from an oncoming villager. A blade beam or two can beat out Lloyd, and it can be jumped over. Villager still has to manage to get in after Lloyd, which he has a hard ass time doing.
+Limit Beam is not a good option anyway, its only a useful mixup, so why is that even a real con? Thats like saying it changes the face of the G&W MU because G&W can bucket the beam. It doesnt matter. You shouldnt be throwing out limit blade beam that much for villager to be able to pocket it effectively. If you're using it like you should be, it'll be a big surprise, and likely kill offstage. Or it'll stop their getup on ledge, where villager cannot pocket it anyway.
+Villagers fair/bair can be hopped over, and Cloud's fair literally goes right through it into Villager.
I think his nair might actually get rid of it, I dont rightly remember.
+If villager has a tree at ledge, why am I trying to recover into it in the first place? Villager doenst really have reliable low knockback, most of it is vertical/diagonal up. Meaning Cloud can recover high vs. Villager a lot-- which is good for Cloud because Villager cannot effectively punish it.
+Blade beam isnt slow either? Grounded blade beam is relatively fast. aerial blade beam, maybe. But there have been plenty of interactions where I hit villager with the beam as Lloyd comes out, putting him in low hitstun and giving me time to deal with the rocket.
+Cloud can play campy better than villager can, and he can get more reliable kills. Where villager has to rely on gimmicks (the ball, up tilt, the tree) to get effective early kills, Cloud can get a kill at ~30-40 with Finishing Touch, or between 50 and 100 (Character depending) with Limit slash will kill on ledge. Better than that, if villager is being derpy with recovery planking, drop down and Limit Slash towards the stage. Its almost a guaranteed kill. Villager will at the very least get knocked out of balloons and plummet to his death, but will likely get stage spiked. I think its techable, but even if you tech a hit of it, you're likely to get hit again by the long ass hitbox of it.
+His Fsmash and Dsmash are pretty darn good as well, and Limithazzard is actually a pretty good kill option if you hit the first hit, especially if you're already in the air. Limit beam can be used as a mixup if villager normally planks the ledge and fairs, because you'll catch him and either stage spike or kill at mid to high percents.
Cloud gets rewarded much more in the matchup than villager, has a better grab, better options on shield and out of shield, and really the only place Cloud gets beat in the MU is trying to recover when villager has stage control. It can be a bit tense and scary. However, its still manageable. I normally don't lose to Villagers.
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