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Legend of Zelda Timeline

EverAlert

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i tried to order hyrule historia the day it came out but it was already sold out on amazon. :(

gords it said 10 hours because it was set to countdown to 10am on the 17th but it didnt take into account timezones. basically, it was poorly coded.

no laptop yet, sony service are still waiting on parts. i have vids uploading on my brother's laptop tho.
 

Shaya

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Wow...

In other words, the path in which Link has the triforce of courage goes down Windwaker - involving the entire destruction of Hyrule by Ganondorf. What the flying ****? Link existing with the triforce of courage and the already many 'dead' Hyrulian people. Crazy....

Child Link without much of a Triforce of Courage goes down Majora's Mask (saves an alternate reality), and the people have a 'stable' world. Although... are there Gerudos in Twilight Princess? I thought they weren't... which is odd as they feature in four swords.

**** makes less sense now then it did before with the 'two prong' time lines.
 

EverAlert

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Remember it is presently a rumour based on a translation of an apparent korean translation.

But if I gather correctly then the three splits represent:
- Child (Ganon sentenced to death after Link is sent back at the end of OOT... MM, TP, etc.)
- Adult where Link succeeds in stopping Ganondorf (but isn't present for later events leading into TWW, etc.)
- Adult where Link fails in stopping Ganondorf (the original future that you are trying to reverse in OOT... ALTTP, the Oracles, etc. all are in a Hyrule where the hero bloodline is nearly extinct)

Don't ask me why the FS games are placed where they are. I have no idea and no it does not make any sense whatsoever.

You do not see any of the actual Gerudo in it, but they are referenced heavily in TP.

Two-prong timeline actually made a lot of sense previously. Obviously there were holes but it's a really old franchise that clearly did not have continuity (or even any long term expectation at all) in mind at the start, so what can you do?

Apparently this is also being toted by Official Nintendo Magazine as "the" timeline though so there is a chance it is legit after all. Just have to wait a week for an actual translation or something.
 

Shaya

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But with "link failing" its hard to know how far he got in his adventure.
Perhaps it's the "baby Link with his mother fleeing from a fiery battle being left in the kokiri woods" never happening, so OoT Link was dead and no one was able to stop Ganondorf. That would kinda make sense to me. Otherwise, where did Link fail? Was he forever trapped in the sacred realm? Plausible I guess, would explain some instances of a shadow link?

Either way, there is no clear explanation of how Hyrule went to a somewhat time of peace later on (in a Link to the Past), who stopped ganondorf? Are we to assume the 3 goddesses did so in a similar situation to that of Windwaker? Why was ganondorf trapped in the shadow realm, why was he now 'ganon'? There are still 8 descendants of the sages, including Zelda present, and as a theme throughout. Where did the illustrious triforce of courage go? Lost forever?

Also ganondorf sentenced to death - I don't think that's how it went in that 'as the story shows' split. Ganondorf and Link both entered the sacred realm at the same time - I assume that timeline assumes that ganondorf was left stuck in the sacred realm. Triforce of courage of unknown location in this scenario.

Windwaker has Link obtaining triforce of courage (or to be shown to hold). And the ganondorf in this iteration is utterly destroyed/killed (it would seem).
 

Shaya

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What he talks about is a theory (as am I).

Like he states that zelda sends him back in time to before the sword of the time pull and Link informs zelda of everything/etc.
But doesn't the ending of OoT after zelda sends link back show him leave the temple of time with the master sword pedestal? In other words, Ganondorf has already killed the king, caused problems, etc. Maybe I'm wrong on that one.
 

swordsaint

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yeah you're right

it still makes the most sense on how there's 3 timelines though. link dying/failing is a copout. Him just not existing is a better way.
 

swordsaint

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yeah i didnt even think of that. i was too busy thinking "thats so much better than link dies or something" i didnt even consider it.
 

EverAlert

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Edit: this refers to the Shaya post some posts back.

I'm not going to pretend to support the tri-split, but I can clear up some points.

With the splits we are talking about the one possible Child and two possible Adult splits. Link failing = he dies at some point on his adventure (guays, etc.), as a child or adult doesn't really matter as it all leads into Ganon taking over Hyrule and staying in control in the future. Then we obviously have the other two splits we always knew.

Ganondorf does get sentenced to death "as the story goes". The execution is shown as a flashback in TP. It is generally accepted as obvious that the successful Link sent back to childhood at the end of OOT revealed the "future" events to Zelda, and the royal family arrests him. In this timeline Ganon is not yet stuck in the Sacred/Twilight Realm until the execution goes wrong and the Sages seal him there as a last resort. Also shown in TP. Link (via bloodline) always holds Courage in this scenario, just as Ganon always holds Power: a product of the Triforce being distributed in OOT previous to Link being sent back and having Ganon sentenced. As a side note, you can actually see it on Link's hand in TP.

Courage is not lost in the A Link to the Past split; the Triforce actually is shown and acquired (all 3 parts) in ALTTP. Later games in this split also show (Oracles) or imply (Originals) that Link is in possession of at least one portion of the Triforce. As a side note, you might assume OOT Link fails as a child as the Triforce is still whole when you collect it in ALTTP. The reason Ganon is sealed and Hyrule is "semi-peaceful" in ALTTP is the Imprisoning War (clearly mentioned in ALTTP materials), though I'm not too sure how it fits. Previously in the 2-prong timeline it was accepted that OOT and its prologue ARE the Imprisoning War and ALTTP was a product of the Adult split (in 3-prong terms, the successful one). It does sound close though so I'm assuming Hyrule Historia does cover some kind of reasoning if this timeline actually is legit. Btw, there are 7 descendants including Zelda, not 8 (not important, just clarifying).

As you mentioned, TWW line needs little explanation. Link literally collects Courage during his adventure and Ganon is turned to stone at the end. No later games in that split feature Ganon in any manner.


more with edit:
But doesn't the ending of OoT after zelda sends link back show him leave the temple of time with the master sword pedestal? In other words, Ganondorf has already killed the king, caused problems, etc.
Link is sent back to before he meets Zelda in OOT. He IS shown returning the Master Sword though, but then again, Zelda time mechanics are never accurate to real time mechanics (just look at SS).


edit2:
some more clarifications based on new info, basically tri-split is real
http://www.newnintendo.net/blog/2011/12/22/hyrule-historia-timeline-details-spilled-branch/
http://www.newnintendo.net/blog/2011/12/22/hyrule-historia-timeline-visual-representation/
GlitterBerri is an older member of the Zelda community who has done many translations in the past, this translation is legit

- There is no Hero present for TWW because Link is sent back at the end of OOT.
- In the failure split Link dies directly to Ganon and Ganon obtains the whole Triforce.
- Imprisoning War = the Sages seal Ganon away with the whole Triforce when Link dies, hordes of villains rush to the Sacred Realm searching for the Triforce and eventually the Sacred Realm is overflooded with evil and turns into the Dark World.

Quicklink to updated timeline image with some reasonings:
http://www.newnintendo.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/timeline.jpg

For the record I think Link never existing is much more of a copout than Link actually dying in OOT.
And this timeline still has some blatant holes such as FS/FSA but I'm sure if they can explain away the Imprisoning War then they can explain away FSA not being a direct sequel to FS. More likely than not the implications in FSA about it being a direct sequel were a localisation error.
 

Shaya

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Unless their time travel stuff is god tier sketchy, in other words, Link returned to his past as a child, informed Zelda of what was to happen and then set off, with his original self still perhaps there? Two links in one time line?

Derp, I meant 7, not 8.But wait, aren't there '8' sages in OoT?

But yeah.. mm imprisoning war time line seems off.
Seems possible that the war relating to prologue OoT is something to be covered in the future.
Possible theories for Link failing are
1. Link never survives the war to get to the Kokiri Forest
2. Link forever sealed in the sacred realm
3. Link dies in battle somewhere
4. Ganondorf accesses the sacred realm before Link can (obtains the gems from their respective locations through force)
5. That the time line in which Link originally was sent to the future maintains itself and isn't "removed" when Link defeats ganondorf (the video that scoot linked).


So imo

Oot Link as he returns to a child has a bloodline that connects to TP and Four Swords Adventures, his descendants are the heroes of the future, but his legacy is unknown.
OoT Link as he is an adult, his bloodline seems disconnected, his legacy is well known. The world is in the state it is perhaps due to the 7 years of which ganon took control of the world never having the results fully reversed (gaining countless followers who tried to return him alive / unseal him after the direct sacred realm seal by Link with the master sword + 7 sages). WW Link obtains the triforce through merit, not bloodline?
Link failure has an alternative descendent (different family line seems likely?) and is pretty much the same Link from all 5 of those games I believe.
 

EverAlert

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Not sure if you saw my last edit, it has more clarifications related to what you just posted.
 

Shaya

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Yeah, I saw.
So in other words, Zelda didn't believe this Link who came to her saying Ganondorf is the shizwiz? "she sent him away"? Were there two links? This link must have still held the triforce of courage?

What they've confirmed now is like... more confusing. But them clarifying that in both iterations Link was returned to the past.
So I was right that the triforce of courage didn't "exist" + there was no descendants of OoT Link in WW timeline.
 

EverAlert

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xenoposting to remove potential confusion with thread updates.

- There are 6 sages in OOT, plus Zelda.
- ALTTP/OOX/LA Link are the same Link (shield design and other implications within the games). I'm not sure if it's the same Link in the originals though.
- I am like 90% sure TWW Link gains Courage through merit and not bloodline. However, there is a chance it is by blood, as the people of Outset seem to be descendants of Old Hyrule.

Pretty much in agreeance at this point, not sure if there's anything else I should clarify.
 

EverAlert

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seriously I'm just gonna xeno it up from now on lol.

So in other words, Zelda didn't believe this Link who came to her saying Ganondorf is the shizwiz? "she sent him away"? Were there two links? This link must have still held the triforce of courage?
Link went away on his own. Zelda sees him off and gives him a parting gift (the ocarina of time). I doubt she didn't believe him about Ganon, she had it in her head he was the bad guy already. And he does keep Courage here. I am of course assuming you're referring to the MM/TP split.

If you're referring to TWW split then when I said "sent back" I meant back in time, not sent away.
 

Shaya

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Zelda gives him the ocarina of time, and he isn't remembered. The ocarina of time itself is in an unknown location. TP Link seems to be a descendent of this Link. This Link seems to be all TUTUTURU style time travel with crazy kinks, because otherwise there would have been TWO Links that bridged off from OoT where Link informs zelda of ganon's intentions. But this still creates questions on why Link has the tforce of courage, when supposedly the sacred realm hadn't been reached yet.

This timeline gives more potential to my fankwank dream of OoT Link showing up as a companion to protag Link in some game.
 

EverAlert

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Well it would be the same reason Ganon still has Power when he is being executed. I imagine that they simply keep the Triforces as they have already accessed the Sacred Realm in their own personal timeline. In any case it only creates a period of a few days where there are multiple child Links in OOT, but as I said, accurate time mechanics were never Zelda's strong point haha.

btw, from glitterberri's site:
Zelda gives Link the Ocarina of Time, tells him to go far away so Ganondorf doesn’t access Sacred Realm
 

EverAlert

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Actually on second thought, it could be that they don't actually possess them, just that they are bound to them by fate. IIRC Ganon doesn't even try to use Power right up until he is about to be executed, so perhaps Power itself saved him?

That blatantly goes against conventional zelda timeline logic though, and doesn't explain why TP Link already possesses Courage.
 

swordsaint

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@Ea, I didn't mean that he just 'didn't exist', but through manipulating the past, creating an 'alternate future' means he didn't return to that original timeline. Therefore Ganon wins in that timeline because there was no Link.

So Link pulls the master sword and moves forward 7 years in the original/failure/classics timeline, but in order to progress returns to the past and changes things which result in an 'alternate future' which is the one Link goes to when he pulls the Master Sword a second and third time. The original timeline, is the unaltered one where Link didn't manipulate the past. He couldn't alter the past and return to the same timeline. It was the DBZ/Trunks effect.

I'm not sure if you've been able to watch the video though.
 

EverAlert

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@Scoot: Thanks, I see what you mean now. If I understand correctly then that is not too different from the new official timeline. And I havent watched the video since you posted it but if it's the back to the future ripoff one then I have already seen it.

@Invisi: Tough cookies, this **** is legit lol.

Also, translation or not this timeline is super-confirmed, there is a video of someone flipping through Hyrule Historia and there's a page with the timeline drawn on it with game images and such. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W77ry6Srx_I around the 5-6 min mark


Btw Shaya, I was gonna ask this sooner or later, but shall we move the timeline posts to another thread? There is still a lot of 448 stuff to discuss later so it will get confusing otherwise.
 

EverAlert

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****. Should give me first post so people will actually read the thread. :p
 

swordsaint

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It's not nathaniel. It's someone's interpretation of a tri-split timeline before the translation that he 'died' was confirmed, but AFTER it was confirmed there was a third 'failure' split. Either way I am going to believe this one more so than Nintendo's 'official'. AUTHOR DON EXITS.

Also I realised why link would have to die against Ganon in the final fight for the Imprisoning War to happen. Finding the Sages etc.
 

Shaya

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A link who was destined to lose. Let's hope they make a game about the imprisoning war with perhaps the showing of Link's slaying. Would be a totally different spin on the game formula.
 

swordsaint

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A link who was destined to lose. Let's hope they make a game about the imprisoning war with perhaps the showing of Link's slaying. Would be a totally different spin on the game formula.
Let this be the game we play as Ganon. With no Link to stop us.
 

EverAlert

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Link being slain at the end of OOT would make for a pretty epic prologue of another game I must say.
 

Shaya

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Well, it would have a prologue of showing where in OoT the hero of time fell. Ganon obtaining both the triforce of courage and wisdom (if not at the same time as he defeats Link?) and then specifically the imprisoning war - likely showing the ascendant of the Link we get in LTTP. Some bs about 7 emblems/tadpoles/wiimotes/teabags/crystals/gems that allowed the sages to be empowered to seal him, last boss battle is not you defeating ganon - because you literally do not damage him, but doing everything in his power to stop ganondorf from killing the sages, perhaps showing where the ocarina of time gets lost/destroyed, etc.

I may recall incorrectly, but the goddesses Din/Naryu/Farore didn't feature in any of the LinkFail Timeline, perhaps they appear in a similar fashion to stop ganon as in pre-WW, but are defeated and then removed from history.

sooomuchfanwank.
 

EverAlert

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The Goddesses were the centerpiece of the Oracles, though it isn't said whether or not the actual characters are incarnations of them (it is believed that they are, though).
 

swordsaint

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in a similar way that zelda and hylia are connected then perhaps?

shaya could be on to something. :p

ps. i fkn suck at spoiler tags.
 

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Its funny, I purposely didn't make a thread about this because I thought I was gonna get crap about making a thread from something that was 2 days old and because no one wanted to talk about it.

In my personally opinion, I don't think Nintendo ever intended for there to be a timeline and only started one for WW onwards or at the earliest, OOT. That being said, they've managed to make a pretty convincing one.
 

Shaya

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I too feel that they only started to care about timelines from OoT onwards. Only games that came post-OoT happened 'prior' to it, and the rest of the games since OoT go down two (obvious) lines, one which has post-ganon destruction and another that did not, except for the oracles games.
 
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