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Learn how to earn your wings! A pit video critique thread :)

Gadiel_VaStar

Gadiel_VaStar

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GadielVaStar
WSF2 Masashi(Pit) & Nagahari(Diddy) vs Yui(MK) & Brood(Olimar)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dqdsp8JGwWQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1qnIMhWLGw

WF Masashi(Pit) & Nagahari(Diddy) vs namarta(MK) & Otori(MK)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20jYyQC0Tgw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgEhO1hnZeQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgOBk_UFDtA

LF Masashi(Pit) & Nagahari(Diddy) vs Nietono(Olimar) & Tige(MK)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AB-Q20YPzO4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSdG1rdMN-s

From the Japanese thread-Masashi's team got 3rd out of like 30+ teams; and this is the first time Masashi has Pit doubles vids :)
 
Kuro~

Kuro~

Nitoryu Kuro
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Messages
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Kuro vs Trump G1

Kuro vs Trump G2

Kuro vs Trump G3

Ok guys, help me out here. I need to know what specific matchup errors i'm making, things im not using enough, things im doing right, and also what did i as a player in general fall prey to that i should pay attention to and fix. What can i remedy so scenario x doesn't happen again.

Wow rewatched g1...and ME THE ADVOCATOR OF NOT ABUSING FSMASH was doing it...trump got me scared :(
 
Xcallion

Xcallion

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 10, 2010
Messages
679
Game one: you were too predictable with your recovery. after a while you just became too predictable. this trump guy is pretty good and he got you scared when he took such a big lead. As you already stated, you used too much fsmash and you also threw out bad aerials.
Game 2: OMG @ :23! you could done some serious damage right there out of that wingstool. Shortly afterwards you started using WoI way too much. 2:13, he should have been dead. Why didnt you mirror shield him? 2:48, dont do that when he's so close to you. Dont forget that fox is pretty **** fast and can punish you if you fool around in a (serious?) game. In general, your air game was much better this time.
game three: The only thing i can say is that you went for openings that werent there and you got punished hard.
 
Luckay4Lyphe

Luckay4Lyphe

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Game 1: The fsmash thing did get you punished a lot lol. Don't know if this was a serious set or not, but I wouldn't feel comfortable taking fox to Yoshi's game 1. Also you need to learn to adapt during the game. You used jab infinite a lot and everytime he got out of it pretty quick so slow jab would do more damage, knockback, and less cool down lag if you used slow jab instead.

Game 2:

2:16 you need to catch those times he's forced to foxfire

Good use of woi throughout the game, made you aerial game on par with his.

Game 3:

0:48 lmao

You keep using jab infinite, realistically you're not getting much damage on him. You're probably using it because of the priority, but he can jump over you and fast so instead of a jab wall just have better reaction time (easier said than done yeah)

After you lost your second stock he straight up bodied you. You started playing his game, you need to know how to decrease a player's momentum. You never threw out an angel rind just for the sake of what he would do. When in doubt run to the ledge and plank a little, it's what Pits do. The fact that he was so aggro kind of made you make your decisions without thinking just to keep up so you have to slow down your game and play at a Pit Pace.
 
Kuro~

Kuro~

Nitoryu Kuro
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Luckay4Lyphe said:
Game 1: The fsmash thing did get you punished a lot lol. Don't know if this was a serious set or not, but I wouldn't feel comfortable taking fox to Yoshi's game 1. Also you need to learn to adapt during the game. You used jab infinite a lot and everytime he got out of it pretty quick so slow jab would do more damage, knockback, and less cool down lag if you used slow jab instead.

Game 2:

2:16 you need to catch those times he's forced to foxfire

Good use of woi throughout the game, made you aerial game on par with his.

Game 3:

0:48 lmao

You keep using jab infinite, realistically you're not getting much damage on him. You're probably using it because of the priority, but he can jump over you and fast so instead of a jab wall just have better reaction time (easier said than done yeah)

After you lost your second stock he straight up bodied you. You started playing his game, you need to know how to decrease a player's momentum. You never threw out an angel rind just for the sake of what he would do. When in doubt run to the ledge and plank a little, it's what Pits do. The fact that he was so aggro kind of made you make your decisions without thinking just to keep up so you have to slow down your game and play at a Pit Pace.
Click to expand...
Trump is the #4 Fox.

This was winners bracket round 1 so ya it was serious. Actually, i prefer yoshis...cuz the less space and forcing his recovery to be much more predictable is way beneficial for me.i just wasn't using what i have learned cuz i got too focused on who i was playing. G2 i did better cuz i seriously didn't wanna get 0-2'd again by him...Ya he did **** me after my second stock...

Can you give me some safe or good ways to slow down the match when i need to. Also, what should i do if a fox is obviously baiting me by jumping all around me and running around...should i just go to the edge? I'll try to use AR more...ik it's quite a good interceptor. I just wasn't thinking of all my options. As for why i was using jab infinite...ik he struggles with it so i was using it more cuz he always pops out and up so there's been times i abused that fact in previous games.

Anymore advice plz :(?
 
Esca

Esca

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Messages
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Beaumont, Texas
Kuro~ said:
Kuro vs Trump G1

Kuro vs Trump G2

Kuro vs Trump G3

Ok guys, help me out here. I need to know what specific matchup errors i'm making, things im not using enough, things im doing right, and also what did i as a player in general fall prey to that i should pay attention to and fix. What can i remedy so scenario x doesn't happen again.

Wow rewatched g1...and ME THE ADVOCATOR OF NOT ABUSING FSMASH was doing it...trump got me scared :(
Click to expand...
I had to play him at WHOBO. Good Fox.
 
Maharba the Mystic

Maharba the Mystic

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game one.

0-16 was all wrong bro. don't bother approaching because he has lazers, just reflect them. you need to go with the less mobile fortressing man. retreating fair is not what you need to be doing when you're high in the air, fox likes it when you are cornered. just hit his sh aerials with 3rd hit jab, nair, or sh fair and be sure if you do that to auto cancel it. if he does a full hop, go up there and uair him. or if you want you can just get with with usmash and utilt.
also, when you land "inside" fox, don't do anything but spam utilt because his jab and shine come out faster than most of our moves and his utilt is derp. you started doing it right when you planked though.

16-26
don't bother retreating against fox with sh fairs, there is no gain to it, he is too fast. space him more with dtilt and jab with some dair and some run away pivot arrows. you do good when you get him hin the jab infinite

26-43
goooood. i see some dtilts and dairs and jabs finally. however, break your love for fair in this MU man, uair is your only good option when he is above you at those percents man. why would you double jump fair at him? you uair him when he is that far above you bro. also, only mirror shield if fox is not in the process of moving forward. if he is coming at you, you either start a jab so that you can either hit his sh aerial with jab hit 3 or you start the infinite when he is getting close on the ground. or you can go to the corner and start abusing slanted dtilt to stop both approaches and PLANK MORE.

43-1:22

you did really well right here, proper jab and dtilt spacing, the whole shabang (should've AR'd his recovery though). hey when you do a jab infinite and they DI out, leave it out there sometimes because it mindgames fox players and they just run back into it when they DI out. don't do it alot in a match but every once in a while is good to throw them off.

1:23-2:10
every problem i mentioned above and add kill fishing and spamming to it. got lucky with the glide attack.

okay, the rest of the match is just the same mistakes over and over but now you are also fishing for early bair kill against fox. you need patience bro. remember, fox loses because of our basic ground game and juggle game. that's all you gotta do the whole time to win.

got stuff to do so ill do game 3 later.
 
Esca

Esca

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Man you were honestly just letting him get into your head. You just need to learn to be more fluent and precise. When you mess up on the ledge and you fall low and are forced to recover it tends to look bad, sorta like youre just flying around with no intentions.

If I had any piece of advice, I'd say you should start landing behind the fox and shielding just a tad longer, at least through the utilt. Everytime you landed behind he utilted, and everytime you landed in front of him he grabbed. Bait that utilt and punish, that's how I remember beating him. Be reactive not proactive.
 
Kuro~

Kuro~

Nitoryu Kuro
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Apopka Florida
Esca said:
Man you were honestly just letting him get into your head. You just need to learn to be more fluent and precise. When you mess up on the ledge and you fall low and are forced to recover it tends to look bad, sorta like youre just flying around with no intentions.

If I had any piece of advice, I'd say you should start landing behind the fox and shielding just a tad longer, at least through the utilt. Everytime you landed behind he utilted, and everytime you landed in front of him he grabbed. Bait that utilt and punish, that's how I remember beating him. Be reactive not proactive.
Click to expand...
Ya i did...i'll remember the rest of that advice. I played real bad this set :p

I'm starting to feel myself slowly changing though...as a player...in a good way :reverse: noticing things i didn't before when i play people :3

I have like super god patience but i don't use it with pit for whatever reason...i should change that -.-
 
Luckay4Lyphe

Luckay4Lyphe

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Ay pitzer, post that in the ideas thread if it works and I'll test it myself and then include it in the video that I plan to make, but keep putting off.
 
dualseeker

dualseeker

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Pit: One of the greatest Heroes of our time
Just to comment a little on Kuro's matches against Fox ^^;.

First off, you should go to stages that have more room to camp and run away. Stages like Battle Field and Brinstar only make it harder to camp, especially against someone as quick as Fox. You need room to run away and camp, the extra room will also help with resetting your spacing with Fox. Counter Pick stages like Final Destination and Lylat Cruise where there's room to run away and reset your spacing.

Also, you were VERY aggressive in those matches, especially near end game. You were trying too hard to get a hit in. In Pit vs. Fox, you need to be much less aggressive. Fox's game really depends on making the opponent approach him, then waiting for the opponent to make a move and counter it. If you rush in on him, make sure that you know how to win against his baits and punishes, or else you'll just get hurt. Pit needs to play defensively in this Match Up, because Fox can easily run circles around Pit up close if you let him. Just wait and see what the Fox does. If Fox uses a lot of side dodges and air dodges, respond with a multi-hit move. If you get Fox in the air, don't just immediately chase after him, because most likely you'll get Dair'd in the face. Wait to see what he does. If he shine stalls, just fake him out and wait for him to come on the ground. Or use an Arrow to pester him, so long as you're under a platform/tilt the Arrow before it hits the reflector. Pit needs to bait and punish HARD in this Match Up, because if Pit goes aggro, Fox can harshly punish Pit. If you still want to go aggro, then make sure you know how to, because Fox has many ways of getting through Pit's offense.

Also, you should use more Arrows; you barely used any the entire set. Even though Fox has a reflector, it doesn't shut down Pit's Arrow game. Arrows are a great way to get a response, and rack damage at the same time. If Fox reflects, just angle the Arrow in another direction and slowly approach. Fox's reflector slows him down, so if he prefers to reflect Arrows, then fire them and slowly get into a position where you can still pester him with Arrows, but you won't get hit by a sudden Dash>Usmash. Or you could just hang back and wait for him to approach. If Fox fires lasers at you, just Jump and Air Camp. Or just reflect them back at him. Arrows are such a useful tool, especially in this Match Up, since it forces Fox to approach YOU. Use them more often!

Everything Maharba said is good advice too. You definitely need to know how to outspace Fox in order to get some good damage in up close. And as Maharba said, you should stop using SH Fair so much, it's really not a good option to use when you're approaching in the Fox MU ^^;. Use it more to space. Fox was getting through all those Fair's by air dodging. If Fox gets too fond of dodging you need to respond with a multi hit move like Nair, Uair, or Angel Ring.

Hope my advice helped ^^;. I don't think I did a good job of getting my point across...

Well, tl;dr, just don't play that aggressively against Fox, pick stages that give you more room, and use your Arrows! You have a projectile that's way better!
 
Maharba the Mystic

Maharba the Mystic

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the only thing i disagree with dual seeker is battlefield being a bad place to take fox camping wise. but then again i don't think you will ever see another pit main who is as fond of scrooging as i am not to mention i love using the platforms in my defense game against him. but honestly that is just my preferance, most pits probably wouldn't like battle field as their starter of choice (but the length is so perfect for scrooging)

edit:
hey mr Afro Boy2000. i see you lurking :)
 
Gadiel_VaStar

Gadiel_VaStar

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GadielVaStar
Maharba the Mystic said:
the only thing i disagree with dual seeker is battlefield being a bad place to take fox camping wise. but then again i don't think you will ever see another pit main who is as fond of scrooging as i am not to mention i love using the platforms in my defense game against him. but honestly that is just my preferance, most pits probably wouldn't like battle field as their starter of choice (but the length is so perfect for scrooging)

edit:
hey mr Afro Boy2000. i see you lurking :)
Click to expand...
What? I love BF, it's my top starter. What are your top starters? I have BF, SV, FD, then Yoshi, Lylat.
 
Kuro~

Kuro~

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Mine are Lylat>smashville>FD>BF

Yoshis i like for some matchups like diddy kong and spacies(bar wolf) and others.
 
Zulo

Zulo

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I actually like BF too, followed by FD. I need to practice on Lylat, it could be a useful CP but the tilting and the weird edge throw me off a lot.. Other two are my favorite to strike.
 
Maharba the Mystic

Maharba the Mystic

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im actually a real douche when it comes to the starter. when people are like "you wanna just go SV?" im always "no lets do this legit" and strike SV before i even strike YI because im comfortable on all starters (still working lylat) and thus i get to strike more strategically. the thing is a lot of your opponents will like to strike YI early on just do to the fact that most don't know it's a CP on us (bar a few peeps as you must expect) and the fact that a lot of people just don't like it as a stage to play on.

so in the end though, my favorite starters to go to outside of just messing with people's head and just striking SV would be (mind you there are MUs where i switch the first around with the other 4):

FD>BF>SV>lylat>YI. but like i said there are several MUs where it is completely differant (example snake: BF>FD>SV>lylat and YI. or against falco i don't care AT ALL as long as it's not YI. or against kirby it's like FD>YI>BF>SV and lylat.)
 
Gadiel_VaStar

Gadiel_VaStar

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Kuro~ said:
Kuro vs Trump G1

Kuro vs Trump G2

Kuro vs Trump G3

Ok guys, help me out here. I need to know what specific matchup errors i'm making, things im not using enough, things im doing right, and also what did i as a player in general fall prey to that i should pay attention to and fix. What can i remedy so scenario x doesn't happen again.

Wow rewatched g1...and ME THE ADVOCATOR OF NOT ABUSING FSMASH was doing it...trump got me scared :(
Click to expand...
G1- @ 0:32 & 0:47- you could have used uair instead of bair. It's more practical at those positions fox was in.
@ 3:20- you could have punished w/ upsmash OOS-it would have been faster, and you would have lived

It seems from the first match that you typically throw out a lot of moves w/out necessarily thinking about all of them. I can't really help in that department because I struggle w/ it too, but try to think about the moves you are doing. It seems like every top player has some mindset that is always thinking and making decisions about their opponent and move choice.

Try to punish landings better, like when Fox is high in the air, maybe air loop/rain a couple and just to try to predict what he will do when he lands. If he airdodges to the ground, you can pivot grab, dair, or jab/fsmash(whichever is best). I wouldn't try to go that high in the air for punishes due to Pit's tendency to miss due to his range/aerial mobility. From watching Masashi-it seems like Pit is better grounded and punishing moves from a full jump zone.
 
Kuro~

Kuro~

Nitoryu Kuro
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Gadiel_VaStar said:
G1- @ 0:32 & 0:47- you could have used uair instead of bair. It's more practical at those positions fox was in.
@ 3:20- you could have punished w/ upsmash OOS-it would have been faster, and you would have lived

It seems from the first match that you typically throw out a lot of moves w/out necessarily thinking about all of them. I can't really help in that department because I struggle w/ it too, but try to think about the moves you are doing. It seems like every top player has some mindset that is always thinking and making decisions about their opponent and move choice.

Try to punish landings better, like when Fox is high in the air, maybe air loop/rain a couple and just to try to predict what he will do when he lands. If he airdodges to the ground, you can pivot grab, dair, or jab/fsmash(whichever is best). I wouldn't try to go that high in the air for punishes due to Pit's tendency to miss due to his range/aerial mobility. From watching Masashi-it seems like Pit is better grounded and punishing moves from a full jump zone.
Click to expand...
I generally don't have that issue :( i was seriously nervous agaisnt him >.< can't let that happen again. I'll just do better and think my way through it. I'll remember that Full Hop Bit.
 
Xcallion

Xcallion

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Jun 10, 2010
Messages
679
*** it abel... first i got nyanrolled then rickrolled.... is there no end to your trolling?
 
Abel1994

Abel1994

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I just want some lub :(


Kinda dead here so I have to put forth the mods job and make it so more people will come.
 
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