L-Cancel Is Done Automatically?! Check this out

[Minty]

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/117721.html?playlist=popular


Apparently short hop is in if you skip to 2:36 and at 3:20 samus does a down air and apparently there is no lag? O_O


correct me if im wrong and delete this post if this has been posted before

 

[Zauron]

Yep, its been gone over before. Many don't want to believe it, but I've seen dozens of airials in the videos and they are all at L-cancel speed and I'm pretty certain its automatic now (or, in other words, the lag of air attacks has just been reduced greatly across the board to the same as what L-cancelling did in Melee). This just means it requires one less button to do SHFFL's.

Prepare for a potential flame war over it though, like with Wavedashing being removed.

 

[Heavyarms2050]

the lag time is just probably reduced

 

[SmashChu]

the lag time is just probably reduced

Which is what L-cancelling did, so thus auto-L-cancelling. We may have to see if this is true for all attacks.

 

[IllidR]

Which is what L-cancelling did, so thus auto-L-cancelling. We may have to see if this is true for all attacks.

Ya but there can be an L-cancel still that reduces lag even further. It's not auto L-cancelling it's just overall reduced lag.

 

[SonicZeroX]

Maybe he knew how to Lcancel lol

 

[_Phloat_]

Maybe he knew how to Lcancel lol

Stop using logic, these people go to game conventions to show they dont know anything, I said so..

Really though, If there is less lag L cancels will be less important, if it is automatically done then we will find a way to make it always have almost no lag.. Maybe even a harder/more advanced tech?

 

[Kittah4]

Heh heh, how long will it be called auto-L cancelling if you dont have to L-cancel to do it? That said, in the second trailer during the throne room of Castle Siege, Pit appears to get up very quickly with a certian white halo graphic around him when landing from an attack. Seemed L-cancelish to me, but then there's nothing to compare it to and that video is ancient.

 

[_X_]

Which is what L-cancelling did, so thus auto-L-cancelling. We may have to see if this is true for all attacks.

AHAHAHA

That's the ****in' stupidest thing I've ever heard.

Lag time was the initial factor, not L-cancelling. Thus lag time has been reduced not automatic l-cancelling.

 

[SmashChu]

AHAHAHA

That's the ****in' stupidest thing I've ever heard.

Lag time was the initial factor, not L-cancelling. Thus lag time has been reduced not automatic l-cancelling.

WTF? I said that the name came from the fact it does what L-cancelling did. Read moar.

 

[Xenesis]

Yeah, essentially:

High Lag + L Cancel (SSBM)
Half Lag + No L Cancel (Brawl)

So the overall effect is the same.

 

[Lemon Drop]

I would believe the lag is reduced greatly. Also why call it auto L-cancelling? It's reduce lag, the game isn't 'hitting a button' to make lag take less time.

 

[SonicZeroX]

I still recall some moves having lag upon lading though, such as Sonics (supposed) Dair and Bowser's Fair.

 

[Kelexo]

I would believe the lag is reduced greatly. Also why call it auto L-cancelling? It's reduce lag, the game isn't 'hitting a button' to make lag take less time.

Welcome to Smashboards.

 

[_X_]

WTF? I said that the name came from the fact it does what L-cancelling did. Read moar.

I read exactly what you posted. They took out the lag they didn't add "auto L-cancelling". That's just stupid.

I would believe the lag is reduced greatly. Also why call it auto L-cancelling? It's reduce lag, the game isn't 'hitting a button' to make lag take less time.

Thank you! See, this dude knows what he's talking about.

 

[ShortFuse]

The term "auto l-cancelling" come about because in my post, i said that there was the possibility that all that L-Cancel we thought we saw is... requires no input, not manual but "automatic". i did 100% mean that almost everyone's moves have a reduced lag time.

 

[Kyu Puff]

He means that calling it "auto-l-cancelling" doesn't make sense, as the lag could be reduced but still include L-cancelling as an additional lag-reduction mechanic.

In that video, Mario's U-air doesn't look weird at all. It was auto-cancelled because the hitbox hadn't come out by the time he'd landed (either that, or I just can't tell because the video skipped that part a little). 3:20, on the other hand, does look suspect. I hope to god that the nintendo guy just accidentally hit shield when he was landing that n-air...

Or maybe the game has just changed so that the hitbox is immediately retracted as you land (unlike n-airs in Melee, which had quite a bit of landing lag due to their lengthy duration), and each aerial has a seperate value for ending lag.

 

[Red Exodus]

Yay, now we can't punish noobs with lag.

Next update: shields auto reflect everything!

 

[NES n00b]

I would believe the lag is reduced greatly. Also why call it auto L-cancelling? It's reduce lag, the game isn't 'hitting a button' to make lag take less time.

Lag-Cancelling. Welcome to logic and not darn bitter people trying to tell you ****. <_<

Edit: Everyone's lag seems to be reduced to its l-cancel state but who knoes.

 

[Xanderous]

L-Canceling actually does stand for the L button. It was called Z-canceling for Smash 64.

Of course, Lag-Canceling makes sense too.

 

[GimR]

L-cancellng has to be in the game here's the evidence

http://www.gamespot.com/video/928518/6180852/super-smash-bros-brawl-nintendo-media-summit-2007-gameplay-demo

from 5:50 to 5:55 you see link do an un L-canceled d-air.


Also, maybe sakurai made it so when you do an air move and don't get the hit box out in time there is no lag.

 

[Papapaint]

Two pages of arguing semantics...

 

[Kix]

Yep, its been gone over before. Many don't want to believe it, but I've seen dozens of airials in the videos and they are all at L-cancel speed and I'm pretty certain its automatic now (or, in other words, the lag of air attacks has just been reduced greatly across the board to the same as what L-cancelling did in Melee). This just means it requires one less button to do SHFFL's.

Wavedashing being removed.

Not cool and not cool. (L cancelling and wavedash not being there)

Is it possible that this is a demo only thing?

 

[Little Red Corvette]

Yay, now we can't punish noobs with lag.

Next update: shields auto reflect everything!

If all the fun you get in life is showing how much more you've played the game than other people, then that's good for you. On the other hand, the world outside of the internet will have fun with a good old fighting game.

 

[limitbreak]

L-cancellng has to be in the game here's the evidence

http://www.gamespot.com/video/928518/6180852/super-smash-bros-brawl-nintendo-media-summit-2007-gameplay-demo

from 5:50 to 5:55 you see link do an un L-canceled d-air.


Also, maybe sakurai made it so when you do an air move and don't get the hit box out in time there is no lag.

I heard somewhere that they removed most of links adown lag. Also i heard that he doesnt bounce off anyone after he uses a down.

 

[Vortok]

I see Link do two dairs there, both with the same recovery time.

Also, Sonic does his neutral B (homing attack out of a rising spin charge) in mid-air after getting a Smash Ball, so that confirms you have to be on the ground to activate a FS.

I love the "dur...kuh..." when Sonic kills him with the FS.

I dunno if someone else was claiming it, but I never thought the claim was that "all aerials have zero lag upon landing." I thought it was that they're all at L-cancel speed and thus still being able to L-cancel to speed them up even further would make it nigh instant for those that do have short recoveries. If someone can link to a video if Link doing a dair with a DIFFERENT recovery speed, then we'd be onto something.

 

[Pookiez]

In soviet Russia L cancels you.

 

[Master Peach]

I noticed this a while back. The moves are much faster and have a lot less lag in them, making combos a lot easier on people.

I'm just wondering, with all this will L-canceling still be in the game making the the characters move at Peaches Float cancel speed. I doubt it though. If it is in the game, SHFFL's and combos will become intense and real sick. Can you imagine the combo vids. Craziness XD

 

[Zauron]

Yeah, we could easily prove with a video that L-cancelling is in, by finding 2 cases of the same air attack with 2 different recovery times. However, there's no way to 100% prove that L-cancelling isn't in the game other than having someone try it first-hand and report back (and even then, you'd have to trust it was a reliable source and that they are skilled enough that they would be 100% sure and try it with different timings, in case that changed, and so on).

However, we can speculate its removal based on A) the other changes made that seem to simplify things, B) the benefit to WiFi prediction algorithms its removal would have, and most importantly, C) the fact that in the videos, the lag time has been reduced to L-cancel speeds even though we know these guys aren't skilled enough to pull one off.

So, if its in, it will be much easier to prove it exists than to prove it doesn't. Hence why I'm not 100% sure like I am with Wavedashing, where there is video evidence to show it clearly can't be done any more.

I'll admit Kix's theory is interesting though - maybe it only "auto L-cancels" in cases where the attack collision frame hasn't yet started, but after it has its full recovery time? That could explain some of what we are seeing. I'll have to go back and study the frame timings closer, and try to notice if the recovery lag is different when it is before or after the hit frame.

Or...I could be lazy and just wait until someone from E for All reports back and get a definitive answer. I'm sure its one of the first things they'll test.

 

[saud]

Hmm, imo, the reduced lag time will make mastering a lagless/less lag L cancel rather....useless and not worth the effort (once again, that's just my opinion.)

In soviet Russia L cancels you.

Haha, I will place this quote in my sig

 

[Zauron]

Hmm, well, I checked a bit more and I saw the same lag time before and after the hit frame on the same move, and on other moves that had their hit frame come out already the lag is still shorter than the lag for the same move in Melee. So whether or not the attack had a hit frame doesn't make a difference it seems.

 

[Cruise]

let's just wait a few more hours and hear what the E for All attendees have to say

 

[Psychoace]

Anyone care to explain what samus does at 2:34 right when she goes into the gooey bomb?

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

AHAHAHA

That's the ****in' stupidest thing I've ever heard.

Lag time was the initial factor, not L-cancelling. Thus lag time has been reduced not automatic l-cancelling.

Can anyone point out the contradiction here?

+rep if you do.

 

[saud]

L cancelling is used to reduce lag time, and he stated that "Lag time was the initial factor, not L-cancelling"

 

[Mama]

I don't really care. Its not like reducing move lag time hurts any of us in any way. If anything its less work lol. If there are moves that still have lag time then we should be able to L-cancel them seeing as how it was in the first two games.

This is something that will help pros and newbs alike.

 

[_X_]

Can anyone point out the contradiction here?

+rep if you do.

Can you? Need I clarify again?

Two pages of arguing semantics...

Welcome to SmashBoards?

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

The people playing the demo may be pressing L out of habit. I do the same if I'm going to shield/dodge immediately after landing from an ariel.

There's no way to tell for sure until someone tried this out specifically on the demo - even THEN it's questionable because IT'S A DEMO.

 

[Minty]

Even though its a demo, apparently to me the dude that is teaching the crowd how to play is a complete noob o_O.

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

You can tell just by his play style - he is a noob. Why are we drawing conclusions on advanced techniques from this?