L-cancel/buffering Q:

[TxuZz]

seing some vids, i run into a few marth vs. , both different-sltyled marth players could do: shffl into side b. and shffl into waveland into grab. and i've read somewhere in this forum about something called "buffering", present in almost every fighting game. now i know what it is. and my question is: L-canceling can be buffered? and in a row, more than two L techniques can be buffered, so (for example) a marth can L cancel and perform a side-b with no frames in-between?
and: if when you actually l-cancel you eliminate lag frames, then how its possible to Fusionate L-cancel with a perfect waveland - into a grab?!/ i've tried this and all i get is just L-cancel, my char stans in the same horizontal position as if i was originally l cancelling vertically. if you try to waveland after an short hop aerial, will you automatically L-cancel too?

 

[Vro]

So you know what buffering is. When you're l-canceling an aerial, you can input something. That input will be buffered because you can't actually perform it while landing an aerial. However, as soon as your landings frames finish from the l-cancel, your input will be performed as soon as frame possible. Thus, you can do several different things when landing an aerial.

 

[Da Shuffla]

What can you do? Any special move? Or more?

 

[Darth Waffles]

so (for example) a marth can L cancel and perform a side-b with no frames in-between?
and: if when you actually l-cancel you eliminate lag frames, then how its possible to

L-cancelling doesn't eliminate any lag frames, it just halves them. As Vro said, you still have to get through the remaining lag frames, L-cancelled or not, before a buffered attack/input will come into play. Melee would be beyond ridiculous if you could L-cancel and eliminate any lag

[EDIT:] It's also not possible to "shffl into waveland" because you can't l-cancel a waveland(?!). You're already on the ground

 

[Skylord]

L-cancelling doesn't eliminate any lag frames, it just halves them. As Vro said, you still have to get through the remaining lag frames, L-cancelled or not, before a buffered attack/input will come into play. Melee would be beyond ridiculous if you could L-cancel and eliminate any lag

[EDIT:] It's also not possible to "shffl into waveland" because you can't l-cancel a waveland(?!). You're already on the ground

But you can edge-cancel a shffl and then do an immediate waveland, can you?

 

[SpaceFalcon]

Edge canceling is the only way of eliminating lag off moves. Only thing is it's in fixed positions of the stage and you can't do it whenever you need to, get ready for months and months of getting punished before you do it effectively.

 

[TxuZz]

L-cancelling doesn't eliminate any lag frames, it just halves them. As Vro said, you still have to get through the remaining lag frames, L-cancelled or not, before a buffered attack/input will come into play. Melee would be beyond ridiculous if you could L-cancel and eliminate any lag

[EDIT:] It's also not possible to "shffl into waveland" because you can't l-cancel a waveland(?!). You're already on the ground

of course u dont. what i ment is that instead of jumping, hitting and L-canceling, what i saw was jumping, hitting and wavelanding And grabbing. and the other one was the same but instead of grabbing, side-b.. so, marth was sliding in the ground while performing the move, and previously hit the ground with no lag. that's why i asked how is it possible to L- cancel (half frames..) and still be able to waveland into a grab ( cause u either buffer the wave or the grab.. but.. =S). i'm doing some "research" (XD) about this.. i though that if waveland also l-cancels for you, then you'll only have to bufer One move.

 

[TheManaLord]

that's when the move finishes before you hit the ground thus u can still do input like waveland

 

[Cactuar]

You have to lp, lp, forward, lk, hp, as you land from your aerial. This allows you to buffer L-cancel into waveland grab. It looks slidey and can't be blocked.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

You can only buffer rolls, jumps and spot-dodges (using shield+c-stick direction)
Unless I've missed something, but I doubt it, I'm pretty sure you can't buffer forward b after a shffl. You just need o time it.

 

[soap]

You have to lp, lp, forward, lk, hp, as you land from your aerial. This allows you to buffer L-cancel into waveland grab. It looks slidey and can't be blocked.

the cactus in your sig and avatar are running different ways, it looks funny

 

[dmac]

what if melee did have raging demon type moves.... lol...

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

MikeHaggar is correct.

Even then, I wouldn't really consider the rolls/spot-dodges/jumps actually being "buffered," because you still have to have the cstick input still in the appropriate direction when the time comes, but you can just hold it until it gets there. I suppose that's just semantics though.

Actually there is one more thing that works like this, which is fastfalls. You can hold down 3 frames before the first fastfallable frame, and it will fastfall when it gets to that frame. Also Jiggly/Kirby midair jumps can be 'buffered' like this as well.

EDIT: I guess actually there are some AAA jabs that can be truly buffered (but only the 2nd/3rd/multi-jab hits following the first), like CF's.

 

[Ja]

You have to lp, lp, forward, lk, hp, as you land from your aerial. This allows you to buffer L-cancel into waveland grab. It looks slidey and can't be blocked.

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but what does lp, lk and hp mean in this context?

 

[TheManaLord]

it's a joke and does not mean anything in this context.

it is a reference to akuma's move raging demon move which is a ohko unblockable move in which he simply slides on the ground towards the opponent. it can't be blocked, but it blows because its **** slow and you can jump over or hit him out of it. only way it's good is ifyou kara it with.... ***, that overhead iirc, the punch one. its **** hard i only kara'd it once ever but it was awesome.

i need to play 3s again.

 

[ArcNatural]

of course u dont. what i ment is that instead of jumping, hitting and L-canceling, what i saw was jumping, hitting and wavelanding And grabbing. and the other one was the same but instead of grabbing, side-b.. so, marth was sliding in the ground while performing the move, and previously hit the ground with no lag. that's why i asked how is it possible to L- cancel (half frames..) and still be able to waveland into a grab ( cause u either buffer the wave or the grab.. but.. =S). i'm doing some "research" (XD) about this.. i though that if waveland also l-cancels for you, then you'll only have to bufer One move.

The OP is talking about Marth, and he mentioned shffling and wavelanding to a grab. I don't know how you all missed this, but I'm pretty sure he is referring to doing a sh double fair, but skipping the 2nd fair and wavelanding to a grab.

It's seems you got the terms mixed up somehow, the only time you have to L-cancel is when your doing an Aerial attack as you land. It does not work with B moves (and some of G&W's moves). You can't L-cancel moves in the air. In this case, you don't even land if you do a sh fair fast enough. The move will finish in the air and you can waveland before you hit the ground.

Waveland is 10 frames of lag for everyone. Feel free to say I'm wrong, but I think this is what TxuZz is talking about. You guys got the other questions.

 

[xeno]

I don't think you can buffer l-cancels, because when I was learning to l-cancel my grabs kept not coming out -- I was inputting it too fast.
btw waveland is 10f of lag, what is normal landing lag?

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

You get 7 frames before you land to input the L-Cancel. I can't remember if that 7 includes the first frame you land on or not though.

Landing lag is 4 frames for almost everyone with the exceptions:
Pichu is 2 frames (Top tier!)
DK/Ganon are 5 frames
Bowser is 6

 

[jugfingers]

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but what does lp, lk and hp mean in this context?

lp=low punch

lk=low kick

hk=high kick