KrazyKirbyKid's Character Match-up

[kirbykid]

This is a list created from the Krazy Kirby Kid "the best kirby in the nation/ world?".
Kirby is all I play.
I've fought and beated many of the top players from which I derived this list from.

Easy = Kirby has the advantage (from slight to major)
Medium = Fair match up (either character as about an equal chance of winning)
Hard = Kirby is at a slight disadvantage (winning this match requires putting your fate in uncertain "forbiden" tecs, or out thinking your opponent) Also shows my inexperience with the match up (aka Luigi).
Very Hard = So unfair that I don't enjoy playing the match on any level

Character --> Kirby's Advanges -->

Easy
Pichu --> Pichu? This match is already a joke..... just make it fun.

Kirby --> The Smarter Player will always win in this match. Kirby still has flaws even fighting another kirby. I've never had a problem even with 2 kirbys against only me.

Ness --> Good moves in a bad character does NOT equal good character. Though Ness might have the disjointed hit boxes, his get back is so atrocious, that a simple jump into the PK ends his life. Not to mention that he can't handel dynamic levels. Ness's moves don't flow together because he's horizontal speed and smashes don't work.

Donkey Kong --> Both characters are slow and quick depending on the situation. However, Donkey's size is a major disadvantage. Kirby can duck a lot of his attacks. His large size also makes him easier to grab and swollow for advantageous situations. The RANGE can be countered with proper triangle dodging.

Mewtwo --> two low tiers battling it out. Nobody plays mewtwo competitively so ... whatever.

Bowser --> Seriously.... one move..... BOWSWER BREATH. Bowswer can't jump around it or roll through it. Once kirby gets these powers (which is an extremely easy task) it's burn for the win. Forward tilt bowswer off the edge and BOWSWER BREATH. Back throw and BOWSER BREATH.

Yoshi --> Overwhelm with air moves and L cancel to avoid crouch canceling attacks. Yoshi has speed close to the ground, but not a lot of range with his air attacks. Also, he can't leave the stage to off guard you. Kirby's grabs and forward air will stop a lot of Yoshi's efforts. Also, if Yoshi crouch cancels, a down smash will send him off and down from the edge. This is a major danger zone for Yoshi.

Medium
Captain Falcon --> C.F's love to run and jump around and overwhelm the enemy with his speed. However, the faster the player plays, the less he/she has time to activley anayze the game. This is where Kirby can easily counter all of C.F.'s moves with simple grabs and up tilts. C.F. players are used to hitting bigger targets that kirby, so with the help of wave sliding, triangle dodging, and just normal dashing kirby can easily dodge the oncoming attacks. Sweep C.F. to the edge and use a MATRIX to finish him off eaisly.


Samus --> Samus's projectiles aren't dynamic enough for a well dodged kirby. Crouch canceling doesn't beat Kirby's clean L canceling. Samus's bomb jumping is so EASY to hit. Absorbe her flying kill move and suddenly the match up is evened out.

Marth--> Marth is too good FOR his own good. Triangle dodge into up tilt / down smash and ALL of his sword swinging will do him no good. Forward tilt off the edge and follow up with a MATRIX called the MARTH TRICK, and he won't be coming back. Duck his grabs, and soon you will see that marth is not really that good.

Falco --> Don't let falco's nonsense kill you. His drills can be up tilted. His lasers can be stolen and used against him. Kiby lasers are the best power in the game. A single jump and unlease 3 lazers that can't even be countered by a held reflector. Edgarding is a easy with MATRIX like the FALCO trick.

Young Link-->The speed and Ylink's small size make him considerable harder to fight. Good thing he's lighter. Hope for the best.

Link--> Link doens't have enough speed to stop kirby. His ducks under up B's and grabs make link nervous. Off guarding is also easy. If link graples the edge, a matix from the edge can finish him off.

Ice Climbers--> Use the 17th hit on the forward air to DIVIDE AND CONQUER. The 17th his is that extra little *umph* when the forward air hits the ground. This counts as an additional GROUND attacks which is ideal for stopping ground attacks. Use a wall of pain to finish off nana with simultaneously fighting popo. Use the drill into Lcanceled whatever and chances are nana will take the hits even if popo blocks. These battles are wonderful.

Zelda--> This is a lame battle waiting to happen. Keep chasing Zelda down, eventually you'll get her. She's light also. Otherwise, you'll be eating a lot of strong air moves.

Roy--> Roy is a loser. Howabout that. I beat kens roy. Now NO ROY can't challege ME. lol. On a serious note. Roys kill moves naturally bring kirby close to killing him. Beat him like a marth.

Pikachu --> Pikachu has a lot of strength in strange places and a lot of air mobility, HOWEVER, using a matrix Pikachu is easy to edge guard. Take Pickachu's powers are fun to use considering Kirby has more range with them. Pikachu's lack of attacking range is your strongest advantage.

Game & Watch --> All of his moves out prioritize Kirby's. Good thing he's light weight and easy to edge guard with him limited options of getting back. G&W typically likes to overwhelm the enemy with low to the ground l canceled air attacks Lcanceled into down tilts. This is deadly but not to hard to avoid. The more effort someone puts into hitting your character, the move dependent they become on your fixed position. Stay mobile, and G&W won't be able to keep up with your speed.

Ganondorf --> Gdorf can l cancel to increase his power by spamming strong air moves. However, his jumping speed and lag at the beginning of his air moves is still his weakness. Cut up his range and his moves by moving in with an air hammer. Though this move has lag when you land on the ground, don't worry. The naturally dodge (squishing animation) is enough to prevent you from being grabbed, jabbed, tilted, and worlock-anything. Once inside Gdorfs "personal space" his options for attack are extremely limited if he can't grab the ducking kirby. This gives kirby the advantage for low tilting, or simply attacking attack of Gdorf's attempts to roll or jump or dodge away. ALSO, he is easy to edge guard. Kick the wizard's foot. Kick him away from the edge. Down smash the edge. Or (my personal favorite) drop down into his up b, tech it, and use that extra time to drill Gdorf into oblivion.


Mario --> Watch out for this fast crazy character. His abilities were desgined for a medium tier range. Therefore, he can't exploid any one area of offense to perfection. This makes for a well rounded THINKING game. Think around mario and you win. Go off the edge to finish him off. Use a back kick forwards so caps can't counter your moves.

Dr. Mario --> Mario with kill moves and a good close up game. You can use pills if you want, but chances are they won't phase the Doc. Watch out for neutral air, forward air, forward smash, down smash, ect.

Hard
Luigi --> Strong feet, floating air, crazy moves, unpredictable explosions.... watch out for this green beast of konoha. Just try not to piss him off.

(Sheik)--> Kirby's wall of pain and natural dodging can put sheik on alert. Natural dodges to duck sheiks grabs also put sheik on edge. She's also light which helps. Sheiks lack of a good air to ground combo keeps kirby safe. DON"T GET GRABBED.

Peach-->Though peach has the power, projectiles, and priority.... she's still light. Forward air can take peach out from the ground or in the air. If yo'ure stuck on a flat huge stage... I'm sorry. But that's not a good place for you to be. Smaller levels with some platforms are ideal.


Fox--> Fox is everything you wish you were. He stole your up tilt and your forward smash. So what's left. Kill hlim of course. If you can out think fox's speed you have a great advantage. Fox's are so used to hitting very precise targets that when you move they don't have a backup for their attacky. They rely on TOP speed to back them up, however this requires more thinking. In this way, a little fore thought from Kirby can go a long way. If you dno't let fox grab you, the game is yours with a few FOX TRICS.

Very Hard
Jigglypuff--> Jigglypuff = Kirby + real moves. They contructed jigg's move set with a proper flow coupled with her EXTREME air mobilitiy. Ouch. You're just a kirby. Kiby's WALL of pain vs Jiggs's wall is pretty even. Jiggs moves in and out. Kirby moves up and down. But when it comes down to it, jigglypuff has move kill moves.

 

[DeathscytheHello]

Whoa... Very nice. Thanks for posting this.

EDIT: Could we get a sticky on this?

 

[Dio_Setera]

This is gold, but there is someone who plays Mewtwo, Mewtwo King, he's in the top 25 somewhere. I want to say 16, but don't quote me on that.

 

[N1c2k3]

LAWL. Mew2King doesn't play M2. And yes, I think this should be stickied. And if possible, could you switch the other thread entitled "Biggest noob ever: What you don't want to become" with this one? Just about every single breakdown of those matchups is utterly false. LoL, thanks for making my day...

Edit: Early morning?

 

[Dr.Peabody]

*cough* SAMUS AND MARTH CLASSIFIED AS MEDIUM!!!!????

these are prabaly the worst matchups for kirby. if either play smart then kirby dont stand a chance :*(

 

[kirbykid]

LAWL. Mew2King doesn't play M2. And yes, I think this should be stickied. And if possible, could you switch the other thread entitled "Biggest noob ever: What you don't want to become" with this one? Just about every single breakdown of those matchups is utterly false. LoL, thanks for making my day...

Why are these match ups false? Just because you and the majority of "Kirby Players" have problems with certain match ups doesn't mean I do. This isn't Kirby's Character match up, its KrazyKirbyKids Character Match-up. Sure you can weigh character specifics all day but when it comes down to it Fox still has to grab you to for an easy UAir kill, Marth has to arrest you under his sword reign to supress you, any character still has to hit you before before you take damage. Heres a crazy idea, how about you play in a way that doesn't allow other character's strengths to over whelm you.

When you play a match you aren't playing against the other characters moves. Thats all decided before you even start the game (set damages, knockback and effects for all attacks) What you are playing against is the person's particular process of delivering such attacks.

Marth and Samus may be some of the "worst" match ups for Kirby on the technical level but their conventional style of play (Marth in particular) lends themselves to glaring openings for the way my Kirby is played. I'll explain more, but truely, first and foremost, I just wanted to get some reactions.

 

[kirbykid]

*cough* SAMUS AND MARTH CLASSIFIED AS MEDIUM!!!!????

these are prabaly the worst matchups for kirby. if either play smart then kirby dont stand a chance :*(

Owch, so you're saying all those Marths I played were not smart? There are alot of high level Marth's who would take offense to that. I'm sure you know of a few, seeing as their names are well known in the Smash community, and I'm sure you'd agree those people don't play dumb Marths.

I made this thread to shake up some the normal Kirby conventions. If you ask, I just might answer.

 

[Omnigamer]

Welcome back ^_^
Been a long time since you posted.

I'd have to agree with you on the marth placement, but not so much on the samus. CCing still ruins my day -_-

I'd move Jiggly back to hard, but that could be just because I play one all the time :-/

CF to easy, as well. This is from experience against Darkrain, Nar, etc.

Falco is by no means medium. Stolen lasers don't help a great deal against Falco himself as you'll still wind up the slower one in most cases, and dairs can't *always* be utilted.

Some of the other lower-tiered matches might be reshuffled too, but they don't come up enough to worry about. At least that's how I see these. But you're right, this is your list and such. Again, welcome back.

 

[kirbykid]

I'd have to agree with you on the marth placement, but not so much on the samus. CCing still ruins my day -_-

I don't see whats so great about a CCing Samus. Where are the problems coming from?

I'd move Jiggly back to hard, but that could be just because I play one all the time :-/

True. The match up isn't terrible. I just don't like it, so it's pretty much over before I enter the match.

CF to easy, as well. This is from experience against Darkrain, Nar, etc.

I can never agree with placing a high tier in Kirby's "easy" matchup. They just have too many good options to aproach a situation and so Kirby never has a fundamentaly great advantage over CF.

Besides, my true goal is to have as many characters in the "medium" matchup range as possible. I'm striving for a true unification of Smash characters in wich all characters would have a fighting chance of beating all other characters. And I'm doing it from the bottom up.

Falco is by no means medium. Stolen lasers don't help a great deal against Falco himself as you'll still wind up the slower one in most cases, and dairs can't *always* be utilted.

Falco lazers work a great deal better than you think they do. Falco's speed comes from surpressing the horizontal with his lazers and moving freely through the air with his insane jump. Kirby fires three lazer for every jump (which is equal to one short hopped Falco lazer). Played correctly this can "ground" Falco, forcing him to commit to forging through your lazers if he wants to continue his attack. If thats not a winning tactic I don't know what is.

 

[Omnigamer]

Falco lazers work a great deal better than you think they do. Falco's speed comes from surpressing the horizontal with his lazers and moving freely through the air with his insane jump. Kirby fires three lazer for every jump (which is equal to one short hopped Falco lazer). Played correctly this can "ground" Falco, forcing him to commit to forging through your lazers if he wants to continue his attack. If thats not a winning tactic I don't know what is.

Unfortunately, Falco has more to his "speed" than supressing the horizontal. Kirby may be able to fire 3 lasers in one jump, but that doesn't give him any advantage if the lasers don't hit anything. Due to Kirby's own speed and aerial mobility, he can't effectively approach with lasers, which is one of Falco's main points. Firing that third (or second, in the case of a sh) laser won't do any good for chaining into anything unless the enemy is already next to them and vulnerable, which the prior lasers already prevent to a certain extent. Also, the height at which Kirby fires the lasers is largely ineffective against an approaching Falco.

Consider the following scenario: You, as Kirby, are spamming triple lasers on an approaching Falco. The Falco however also begins approaching with shls. Who will win out in this situation? Ultimately the Falco, because even though he may not have the ability to fire lasers en masse as Kirby does, he can jump, fire, and be back on the ground faster than Kirby. This means even if the lasers connect, Falco will receive minimal effect because he'll already be on the ground and can attack right after. Kirby, however, will be stunned in the air from Falco's single laser and have to fall back down to the ground before he can continue, leaving him much more vulnerable.

That's what I've seen from my experience, at least.

 

[kirbykid]

That's what I've seen from my experience, at least.

That is precisely the problem. That senario you just described was from a Kirby that has no idea how to properly use the lasers. I've already explained why the lasers work and you keep digging up fights from your past.

Kirby can dash jump foward and backwards while firing 3 lasers. This means if Falco tries to jump, he'll collide with the first 2 lasers, fall to the ground and get hit by the last laser giving kirby the oportunity to move in. There's also the stationary Air shots that have kirby repeatedly jumping in one spot firing lasers. Between these two options kirby can shut out the air completely.

Chaining moves from the lasers is perhaps the eaisest thing to do. Jump, laser laser laser, grab. Jump Laser laser laser, jump forward air (6 hit combo).

I've definately done the jumping lasers thing vs a falco doing the same. I've won every time. There's no way 1 laser can beat out 3. Kirby is also a much smaller target that can naturally dodge the lasers just by landing on the ground.

Kirby is superior in every way.

This can't be argued. If its a matter of not being good enough to play on this level, that's another issue altogether.

 

[t!MmY]

Pichu --> Pichu? This match is already a joke..... just make it fun.

Yes, I know Pichu is bottom of bottom tier, but for a Kirby match-up I would say he's definately not the easiest character to beat. You may have fought against good Pichus, but have you fought against a good Pichu who also has extensive practice against Kirby? My brother mains Pichu (0_o) and he knows all my Kirby strengths, weaknesses and tactics; so, I have a very good idea of the nuances in a Pichu vs Kirby game. I could go into great detail if you wish.

Ness --> Good moves in a bad character does NOT equal good character. Though Ness might have the disjointed hit boxes, his get back is so atrocious, that a simple jump into the PK ends his life. Not to mention that he can't handel dynamic levels. Ness's moves don't flow together because he's horizontal speed and smashes don't work.

I think the problems Kirby has with Ness goes beyond the disjointed hit boxes. Mostly it lies in the power and reach of his attacks. If you happen to get caught by a B-air or F-smash, there's a good chance Kirby has just been KO'd. Jumping into a PK Thunder to utterly shutdown Ness' recovery is very, very effective. However, the problem I always have is that Kirby is so slow that Ness will usualy be blasting back to the stage by the time I get over to him. This is mostly because Ness will usually opt for an Air Dodge when he's close and will only resort to PK Thunder to recover when he's far away - and we all know how slow Kirby can feel in the air.

Samus --> Samus's projectiles aren't dynamic enough for a well dodged kirby. Crouch canceling doesn't beat Kirby's clean L canceling. Samus's bomb jumping is so EASY to hit. Absorbe her flying kill move and suddenly the match up is evened out.

Marth--> Marth is too good FOR his own good. Triangle dodge into up tilt / down smash and ALL of his sword swinging will do him no good. Forward tilt off the edge and follow up with a MATRIX called the MARTH TRICK, and he won't be coming back. Duck his grabs, and soon you will see that marth is not really that good.

Okay, maybe I could understand Marth as a "medium" since there are strategies around Marth's ungodly reach and power (and assuming this "Marth Trick" is the same as my "Death to Marth Maneuver"). But... Samus? Please elaborate more on this subject, and please tell me you have played against Wes, HugS, etc and didn't find them worse than "Medium" and I will be a very happy Kirby player. Samus gives me the most trouble, mostly because of her heavy weight, crouch cancelling, and strong smashes (and that N-air! Oh I hate her N-air!)

 

[kirbykid]

Yes, I know Pichu is bottom of bottom tier, but for a Kirby match-up I would say he's definately not the easiest character to beat. You may have fought against good Pichus, but have you fought against a good Pichu who also has extensive practice against Kirby? My brother mains Pichu (0_o) and he knows all my Kirby strengths, weaknesses and tactics; so, I have a very good idea of the nuances in a Pichu vs Kirby game. I could go into great detail if you wish.

Yes very true. There is no set advantage Kirby has over Pichu. That match up is only easy ( in my experience) because Pichu falls for what I call "Low Tier Sickness". I have never played a Pichu that was anything more than annoying. Someone's joke character he pulls out to make other people look bad when hes holding his own. True someone can play Pichu effectively but odds are, they won't.

I think the problems Kirby has with Ness goes beyond the disjointed hit boxes. Mostly it lies in the power and reach of his attacks. If you happen to get caught by a B-air or F-smash, there's a good chance Kirby has just been KO'd. Jumping into a PK Thunder to utterly shutdown Ness' recovery is very, very effective. However, the problem I always have is that Kirby is so slow that Ness will usualy be blasting back to the stage by the time I get over to him. This is mostly because Ness will usually opt for an Air Dodge when he's close and will only resort to PK Thunder to recover when he's far away - and we all know how slow Kirby can feel in the air.

Yes, Ness had some strong attacks in (BAir and FSmash particularly) but none of that means anything unless they hit you. If you're trying to say, in the matchup the amount of attacks Kirby is likely to take from another skilled Ness player turns the tides due to the strength of Ness's attacks, to that I say, don't play the match in which Ness can likely hit you with them.

This may sound like an obvious sort of reasoning to the point of it being rhetorical but think about it. People play their characters in a way that promotes their strengths and demotes their weaknessess. In Ness's case his strength doesn't change the simple fact that he is easy to kill and whats more easy to put him in a position for a kill.

Ness gambles with his life every time he takes to the air. One compotent string and hes taken more damage or is on the way to not coming back to the stage. As such Ness attempts to take control of this limitation by forming a means by which the attacker may not hit him, he spams moves. At this point its all a matter of mind. You can either fall for his air superiority and alow Ness to cover his faults. Or you can look past his guise (an attack that is not hitting me has reduced effectiveness) and attack the thing hes trying to hide away ( his limited options of air recovery).

Make no mistake, I'm not breezing through 4 stocking Ness. I'm just in very little danger of actually loosing the match because Ness can't beat what I give to him.

Okay, maybe I could understand Marth as a "medium" since there are strategies around Marth's ungodly reach and power (and assuming this "Marth Trick" is the same as my "Death to Marth Maneuver"). But... Samus? Please elaborate more on this subject, and please tell me you have played against Wes, HugS, etc and didn't find them worse than "Medium" and I will be a very happy Kirby player. Samus gives me the most trouble, mostly because of her heavy weight, crouch cancelling, and strong smashes (and that N-air! Oh I hate her N-air!)

I agree, this thread should be stickied. And I'd love to see other Kirby players contribute their views on character matches based on tournament experience (if you only play against CPUs or don't play Kirby in tournaments, please don't bother).

I've played against HugS's and Isai's Samsus. Beyond that I have regular access to a good Samus player ( ones in my crew) so my experience with Samus goes way back. I'm not going to comment on Isai's Samsus ( I think it was more for show than anything) but everyone else I'd put them in Meduim now (though this wasn't always the case).

Playing Samus can be summed up as a huge attempt at making the Samus player feel that he can't take the risks the comes with sticking to a "base strat". A "base strat" being Saumus's backbone strats from Missle Spam to CCing. Kirby's FAir (with the 17th hit) can stop a follow up CCing Samus DSmash or DTilt and well spaced clean L-canceled BAir is fast enough to beat out whats coming next from Samus. The only problem is the execution of these techs depends on a favorable condition that may or maybe not be presented. As such sometimes Kirby beats the CCing and other times the CCing beats Kirby. So who's taking the risk when Samus is CCing? Who can afford to take what. Unfortunately for Samus, her attacks out of CCing don't lend themselves to easy combos (or are the best kill moves). Fortunately for Kirby beating the CCing does.

The same can be said about her projectile spamming. Samus's usual method of cutting off options of her opponent by filling that air with missles and potentail Max Charge Shots doesn't mean quite as much to a small character with many jumps. Missle spam is just a test of patience.

Her weight in term of heavyness doesn't mean much when shes off the edge. Effective edge gaurding will get you a kill at the most and some more damage for Samus at the least. Her weight in terms of "combos" is a tricky matter for sure. I'll get more into that later but I will say its surprising how many of the "standard" combos work on a Samus whos "base starts" are broken.

 

[DeathscytheHello]

Concerning Jigglypuff, I honestly don't think she should be that high... From what little experience I have against Jigglypuff (IE a few matches with Kozzy), I wasn't having major problems except for my down throw (good thing I have that taken care of now). I found the aerial hammer extremely useful in that match...

I know I don't have nearly as much experience in that matchup as you do, but I'm just adding what I can.

 

[Dodger]

Wow! It's KrazyKirbyKid!!!!

For me, Samus, Marth and Jigglypuff are the 3 hardest. I don't win very often against shieks, but I'm pretty even with them (i.e I can usually bring them down to their last stock) but the other chars I frequently get multi stocked by them.

You use a few terms that I'm not familiar with, like MATRIX? Would you mind explaining that? Please? :-)

 

[kirbykid]

A Matrix is a series of maneuvers that elimiate all of the opponents options. They are much easier to preform when the opponent is off the edge because most of the things done off the eldge will put the character into an 'unrecoverable' position.

Usually, speed is the key ingredient to completing a MATRIX because you can catch up to whatever option your oponent chooses. Almost ALL matrixs require precise timing and l Canceling. Captain falcon is a prime examble. After he grabs falco and throws him (within a proper percentage range) Falco is forced to hit the ground (assuming there's no platforms around). Using CF's speed on the ground he can dash and grab Falco if he decides to roll in either direction. Using his quick jumps also, he can down air falco if he doesn't roll. Or Falcon can use the raptor boost. OR if falco lands on a platform, he can pursue with a flying Knee.

But for a smart player, Speed can be subsituted with Reading your Opponent and .... being cool.
I wish I had the time to make a proper video. And I wished I recorded some of my matches against Wex, Rob Falco, SOS, and cave man because those were THE best KIRBY matches ever.

In other words a MATRIX simply means..... "It doesn't matter what you do. YOU"RE DEAD"

 

[Runt]

Wow! It's KrazyKirbyKid!!!!

For me, Samus, Marth and Jigglypuff are the 3 hardest. I don't win very often against shieks, but I'm pretty even with them (i.e I can usually bring them down to their last stock) but the other chars I frequently get multi stocked by them.

Those are the same 3 hardest for me too. What helps me alot is when i use the final cutter out of a shield. Against marth, at least, if u hit him on the down strike u can follow that up with a d-smash. Samus im still working on but all i know is once u get samus off the cliff, u cant let her return. Jigglypuff is rediculous and im still working on that. I do well against sheiks cuz my next door neighbor plays sheik so i sorta know what to expect.

 

[NJzFinest]

This is gold, but there is someone who plays Mewtwo, Mewtwo King, he's in the top 25 somewhere. I want to say 16, but don't quote me on that.

he's NJ's best player and he plays fox...(a really good fox)

yea, im really not liking this list but instead the one timmy has in his guide (i mean...falco, samus...medium....roy over marth ....) then again... it's kirby , so i dont care that much

 

[Omnigamer]

That is precisely the problem. That senario you just described was from a Kirby that has no idea how to properly use the lasers. I've already explained why the lasers work and you keep digging up fights from your past.

Kirby can dash jump foward and backwards while firing 3 lasers. This means if Falco tries to jump, he'll collide with the first 2 lasers, fall to the ground and get hit by the last laser giving kirby the oportunity to move in. There's also the stationary Air shots that have kirby repeatedly jumping in one spot firing lasers. Between these two options kirby can shut out the air completely.

Chaining moves from the lasers is perhaps the eaisest thing to do. Jump, laser laser laser, grab. Jump Laser laser laser, jump forward air (6 hit combo).

I've definately done the jumping lasers thing vs a falco doing the same. I've won every time. There's no way 1 laser can beat out 3. Kirby is also a much smaller target that can naturally dodge the lasers just by landing on the ground.

Kirby is superior in every way.

This can't be argued. If its a matter of not being good enough to play on this level, that's another issue altogether.

Meh. I still have my doubts about the matchup/technique. But we've put all of our points on the table, and neither of us is going to change our positions for the sake of argument, so meh I say.

But anything as long as the forum becomes a bit more active ^_^

 

[HoChiMinhTrail]

Trail <3 OMNI AND KKK !!! KIRBY IS SO HOT!!!

 

[noob-lube69]

Trail <3 OMNI AND KKK !!! KIRBY IS SO HOT!!!

yeah, kirby is pretty sexy

 

[kirbstir]

I wouldn't put jigga-boo as so bad, myself - aside from the fact that it's just one of the most boring matchups in the game, I've come to see it as a test of patience and forward thinking over anything else

just for reference, are these measurements (easy, medium, hard, extreeeeeme) on each character based upon the average diffuculty you've found against a whole range of different players (say between someone who is better than you, someone at your skill level, and then the average scrub) or did you take the epitome of each character (say, hugs/wes/oro for samus, ken/neo for marth/roy, etc) and base your measurements off merely those that are considered "the best" with that character?

edit: I agree CF shouldn't be in easy, falco's lasers work well to kill the horizontal game, but (if that list is in descending order of difficulty as I assume it is) I think ylink is more annoying than regular link, mainly because he's quicker and has an easier time running away + spamming, and his dsmash is pretty killer, and he doesn't have to worry about missing a ducking kirby with grab

 

[Dr.Peabody]

i agree with u on HOW to kill a marth... but still not on his placement. he diserves AT LEAST a hard ranking...

if marth plays defensively there is next to nothing that kirby can do. the only way the trianle dodges will help is if u can get in there after a smash or something, but if marth is using Neutral ground attacks, it screws everything up. even if u manage to CC it u will still end up with at least 10 damage. also marth could merely wavedaash back from a approaching kirby then hit him with that blasted Neutral ground (with the tip grrr) to a smash or something. this is what i meen by. not to mention shffl'ed fair screws kirby. this is what i meen by "playing smart"

 

[Yokoson]

i agree with u on HOW to kill a marth... but still not on his placement. he diserves AT LEAST a hard ranking...

if marth plays defensively there is next to nothing that kirby can do. the only way the trianle dodges will help is if u can get in there after a smash or something, but if marth is using Neutral ground attacks, it screws everything up. even if u manage to CC it u will still end up with at least 10 damage. also marth could merely wavedaash back from a approaching kirby then hit him with that blasted Neutral ground (with the tip grrr) to a smash or something. this is what i meen by. not to mention shffl'ed fair screws kirby. this is what i meen by "playing smart"

Thats not "playing smart", thats playing to a situation. Yes Marth is a capable character (and no a defensively played Marth is no more of a bane than a offensively played one) and is able to handle many different types of situations effectively but he can't handle any situation at any time.

You say Marth just has to play defensive, I say you play against the defensively played Marth differently so as to weaken this new position. Marth is in the Medium range because at this point, his main advantages and conter strats for Kirby can be dealt with quite well. (If you think a triangle jump can't beat a grounded Marth you're not doing em right).

 

[t!MmY]

I think what a lot of people are forgeting to take into consideration is that this is KKK's match-up list - how he finds characters he has played against. Yes, you can question why he says what he says, but he did, in fact give you answers which explain how he came to such decisions.

Technically, every Kirby player has their own match-up list. Maybe one player has a terrible time with Mewtwo, while another player never loses to one; it really comes down to the player. That's why in the guide I wrote, I based the character's placement on Pros/Cons for and against Kirby, and whether or not there was an abuseable strategy to use against the character. I, personally, do not have as hard of a time against Marth as my list would indicate, yet I placed Marth as the second hardest match-up for Kirby.

 

[kirbstir]

triangle dodging isn't a 100% foolproof way of beating marth's ground game; I imagine you wouldn't make it a point to approach like that every single time

"mix it up" in other words

I'd rather be controlling the offense against marth than have him controlling the offense against kirby. if he's in control, it's hard to get away with sidesteps, triangle dodges, and ducking grabs (fyi you can get grabbed in this matchup if you aren't paying attention)

 

[Dr.Peabody]

Thats not "playing smart", thats playing to a situation. Yes Marth is a capable character (and no a defensively played Marth is no more of a bane than a offensively played one) and is able to handle many different types of situations effectively but he can't handle any situation at any time.

You say Marth just has to play defensive, I say you play against the defensively played Marth differently so as to weaken this new position. Marth is in the Medium range because at this point, his main advantages and conter strats for Kirby can be dealt with quite well. (If you think a triangle jump can't beat a grounded Marth you're not doing em right).

"playing to the situation" is playing smart... am i wrong?

just because a marth decides to play deffensively againt an approaching kirby doesnt limit him to be playing defensivly. i agree with Kirbstir in that with marth id rather be on the offensive ( i used to play a marth hehe ), but i was simply stating a defensive marth can screw everything up for kirby

dont get me wrong.. marth IS beatable, but doing so requires vastly outsmarting him as well as extremely precise timing.

marth isnt limited to a grond game either. and again i agree with kirbstir that a triangle dodge isnt a fullproof way to beat marth's ground game, as marth could simple WD back, sshieldgrab, wait till kirby hit the ground... etc.

o well...
if u wish instead of us spamming kkk's thread we can discuss this in the "kirby matchup discusion" thread

always great to have a nice debate

 

[DeathscytheHello]

Uh... could we get a sticky on this? It's one of the more useful things on here...

 

[DoH]

haha <3

richard is way too good.

 

[Yokoson]

Yo Yo Darkness! MLG Dallas is comig up. You going?

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

Ness --> Good moves in a bad character does NOT equal good character. Though Ness might have the disjointed hit boxes, his get back is so atrocious, that a simple jump into the PK ends his life. Not to mention that he can't handel dynamic levels. Ness's moves don't flow together because he's horizontal speed and smashes don't work.

Lol, I wouldn't call this matchup easy. As someone who plays Ness and Kirby, i have a better idea of this matchup. This matchup is only somewhat easy if you regularly play on pokefloats, but most tournaments are on stages like FD and battlefield. Sure, his smashes "don't work" but against a glitch happy Ness, his non-working up smash is a good thing for him (YYG, anyone?). His recovery is easily edgeguarded (by stealing the thunder) but most Ness players don't use that type of recovery unless necessary. And since most of Kirby's moves have terrible knockback as compared to other characters, the 2nd jump + dodge is usually enough to get back unless at high % or ness already used the 2nd jump. Put this one at medium/hard.

Samus --> Samus's projectiles aren't dynamic enough for a well dodged kirby. Crouch canceling doesn't beat Kirby's clean L canceling. Samus's bomb jumping is so EASY to hit. Absorbe her flying kill move and suddenly the match up is evened out.

WTF, this doesn't even make sense. Samus is one of the HARDER matches, not medium. It's not like all Samus players ever do is B-moves. Most of the moves Kirby has with any knockback worth noting knock horizontal, not vertical. And because you are Kirby, you won't KO her until high damage. Sure you can hit the bombs, or spike if she bomb jumps. That doesn't make the matchup much easier. I'd put this at least hard, possibly very hard.

Game & Watch --> All of his moves out prioritize Kirby's. Good thing he's light weight and easy to edge guard with him limited options of getting back. G&W typically likes to overwhelm the enemy with low to the ground l canceled air attacks Lcanceled into down tilts. This is deadly but not to hard to avoid. The more effort someone puts into hitting your character, the move dependent they become on your fixed position. Stay mobile, and G&W won't be able to keep up with your speed.

This matchup is almost as hard as Samus or Jigglypuff, unless your opponent sucks. G+W is plenty able to keep up with Kirby's "speed" and can easily combo Kirby at any damage. Sure, he's lightweight with average recovery, but a good G+W will be difficult to hit. And no one is ever dependant on someone's fixed position, unless they suck. It's not like someone just stands there and waits to be hit, unless they incorporate it into a mindgame (shield grab, or move away when you get close, for just a few simplified examples). This one is hard.

In one of the guides is a better matchup list. I'd suggest reading that.

 

[Dr.Peabody]

Lol, I wouldn't call this matchup easy. As someone who plays Ness and Kirby, i have a better idea of this matchup. This matchup is only somewhat easy if you regularly play on pokefloats, but most tournaments are on stages like FD and battlefield. Sure, his smashes "don't work" but against a glitch happy Ness, his non-working up smash is a good thing for him (YYG, anyone?). His recovery is easily edgeguarded (by stealing the thunder) but most Ness players don't use that type of recovery unless necessary. And since most of Kirby's moves have terrible knockback as compared to other characters, the 2nd jump + dodge is usually enough to get back unless at high % or ness already used the 2nd jump. Put this one at medium/hard.



WTF, this doesn't even make sense. Samus is one of the HARDER matches, not medium. It's not like all Samus players ever do is B-moves. Most of the moves Kirby has with any knockback worth noting knock horizontal, not vertical. And because you are Kirby, you won't KO her until high damage. Sure you can hit the bombs, or spike if she bomb jumps. That doesn't make the matchup much easier. I'd put this at least hard, possibly very hard.



This matchup is almost as hard as Samus or Jigglypuff, unless your opponent sucks. G+W is plenty able to keep up with Kirby's "speed" and can easily combo Kirby at any damage. Sure, he's lightweight with average recovery, but a good G+W will be difficult to hit. And no one is ever dependant on someone's fixed position, unless they suck. It's not like someone just stands there and waits to be hit, unless they incorporate it into a mindgame (shield grab, or move away when you get close, for just a few simplified examples). This one is hard.

In one of the guides is a better matchup list. I'd suggest reading that.

*GASP!!!*


u have alot to learn

 

[Yokoson]

Ness, Samus and G&W suck! You heard it here first!

 

[DeathscytheHello]

In one of the guides is a better matchup list. I'd suggest reading that.

... Wow... I hope you realize he's one of, if not the, best Kirby players there are. I'm pretty sure his has a pretty good idea of what he's talking about.

Also, you gotta remember, being placed in "medium" isn't an insult. That means the matchup is equal.

I personally find DK a medium, but then again, the DK I play knows everything in my book and vice versa. If I were to play a different DK, I may agree with the easy mark or reinforce my medium mark. I could say why DK is an even match-up of what DK could do, but there's often a difference of what people can do and what they will do. Also, everything that Krazy Kirby Kid says about the DK match-up is right. You can grab him from far away, you can evade the range, etc.

 

[ZoSo]

Lol @ Sabrina criticizing the best Kirby in the country.

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

Just because he's one of the best players doesn't mean that his reasonings as to why certain matchups make sense, especially since a different guide gave a better list of reasonings for certain matchups. I'm not criticising his playing ability (I'm sure he's a really good player), just his reasons for why certain things are easy or equal matchups according to the list. If like 70% of the characters or so are even with Kirby, with about equal numbers of "easy" as "hard" I don't think Kirby would suck as much as he does. And yes, many characters that are better than Kirby still suck as well. That's why they are also low tier. Maybe redefine what exactly you mean by "medium" to help noobs like me, and also give better reasons than "once you have projectiles too you are now evenly matched." (which is pretty far from the truth unless you have a reason OTHER than projectiles, or "this can be dodged" which you didn't list.) A lot of what was said was along similar lines to "kirby is even with (insert any character here) because attacks can be blocked." By that logic, tiers don't exist, which is something I definitely don't agree with.

 

[DeathscytheHello]

Just because he's one of the best players doesn't mean that his reasonings as to why certain matchups make sense.

Uh, it does, actually. See, he explains what he needs to explain- if you can't make sense of it, that's your problem, not his.

If like 70% of the characters or so are even with Kirby, with about equal numbers of "easy" as "hard" I don't think Kirby would suck as much as he does.

I assume you are referring to the tier list. Well, let's look at what KrazyKirbyKid has to say about that...

I really can't explain it. When I"m up against tiers, strange things happen. I think I've glitched the game because, the tiers keep losing.

Just because most people suck with Kirby doesn't meant that everybody sucks with him.

Maybe redefine what exactly you mean by "medium" to help noobs like me

First post. I'll quote it for you.

Easy = Kirby has the advantage (from slight to major)
Medium = Fair match up (either character as about an equal chance of winning)
Hard = Kirby is at a slight disadvantage (winning this match requires putting your fate in uncertain "forbiden" tecs, or out thinking your opponent) Also shows my inexperience with the match up (aka Luigi).
Very Hard = So unfair that I don't enjoy playing the match on any level

See? Right there.

and also give better reasons than "once you have projectiles too you are now evenly matched." (which is pretty far from the truth unless you have a reason OTHER than projectiles, or "this can be dodged" which you didn't list.)

He does give other reasons. Here's the Samus one...

Samus --> Samus's projectiles aren't dynamic enough for a well dodged kirby. Crouch canceling doesn't beat Kirby's clean L canceling. Samus's bomb jumping is so EASY to hit. Absorbe her flying kill move and suddenly the match up is evened out.

Oh, look! He did include the dodging thing that you said he didn't have!

A lot of what was said was along similar lines to "kirby is even with (insert any character here) because attacks can be blocked." By that logic, tiers don't exist, which is something I definitely don't agree with.

Yes, tiers do exist, but if you're good enough, you can defeat the tiers.

 

[Dr.Peabody]

:o

PWNT!!!

kirby does pretty much break even with most every char...

AND IF I HEAR U SAY KIRBY SUCKS AGAIN, ILL SHAKE MY FIST IN ANGER AND PROTEST!!! GRAAHHH!H!! :newbie:








I <3

 

[DeathscytheHello]

Kirby does suck. You can just break through the suckiness with pure awesomeness.

 

[Rouse]

Why the hell isn't this sticied, lol?

Anyway, top job. i don't play kirby, i play marth and sheik, and what you said about them is pretty much spot on. Congratulations,

Ruse