Koopa VS Kefka -- The Endless Tournament ends! Who took home the prize?

[#HBC | Laundry]

Wrong? If someone wins a game and they weren't given the Okay to do it, they're gonna look pretty ****ing terrible. If it doesn't work, It's my fault. I'll take the blame. I'll shoulder being wrong.

And?

So what if they look ****ing terrible? What are we gonna do about it? Lynch 'em? Remove 'em? Throw the cop at 'em?

 

[Circus]

Jerkus, you #2980 intrigues me. You got a good head on your shoulders. You're thinking very logically and I've honestly liked most of your posts ever since you've replaced in. Ranmaru just has unrealistic standards for people and gets upset if things don't work out in exactly the way he expects them to. It's why he tends to misread people on meta. Anyways, I wanna know what you think of my plan. You raised good points about Cycle 2.

To be honest, it sounds like what Kantrip was talking about before, and fails for the same reasons. You actually didn't go into much detail regarding the game becoming a "guess-and-check" and how we can "assure" that cheating without repercussion doesn't happen, so what you're intending may not be the way I'm reading it.

But if I understand the rules correctly, I think cycle 2 does become what Kantrip was saying earlier. In cycle 1, high standing players can throw matches without commiting all-out suicide, and since we still have a removal, there is an obvious way to punish players who don't follow the plan (this is another reason it makes no sense to use the removal before D4). We can control who we take into the top 8, to some degree.

In cycle 2, there is no longer any way to remove suspicious players, meaning the only thing scaring scum into following the rules would be that they could have Suspicion cast on them for their next match, which obviously isn't enough incentive for them to throw any games, at any point. So it doesn't seem like a plausible method of quality control at that point. Plus, if I'm not mistaken, all matches become elimination matches at that point, yes? Meaning that all townies who throw matches are out of the game. If you're in a TvT match, it's a wash; if you're in a TvS match, it's detrimental to throw. There is no incentive to do anything other than try to win. And this is not even accounting for whatever abilities scum may have that could affect this.

The best strategy at that point (though what recently happened with Washed's hotel room bodes poorly for this), would be to get yourself into a hotel room that you feel CERTAIN has no scum in it and share all of the character information you've gathered up to that point so that town players have all the information they can have when they go into their next match. Other than characters with banned moves. No one should EVER reveal ANY characters with banned moves, in thread or in hotel room, as that's only beneficial to scum with the cop gone.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Bye them. Let townies play and win.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Then get on this removewagon with me. I'm not interested in pawn being removed, best choice now is Circus especially since we don't have a cop. This is our last chance in removing someone so I think he's the best. I wouldn't mind you/Kantrip either but Circus's recent play does not help me to read his slot better, so I'm fine with him being gone.

Overthinking? Why were you overthinking?

no, tomorrow morning is

 

[Kantrip]

Bye them. Let townies play and win.

You could use some rules reading.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

You guys realize that this cycle isn't over yet, right?

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Awfully quick to point the finger. Interesting that everyone else's first reaction is "whoa what happened who did that let's figure this out" and yours is "IT WAS CIRCUS (conveniently the slot that everyone hated pre-replacement)."

I just replaced in. Ran's been up my *** about reading the first 60+ pages of the thread (which I will not be able to do, Ran, sorry, live with it). I hardly have anything that I would consider a reliable read and you think I picked up on some secret cop tell on Rake? Man, I must be a savant

wow someone else thinking exactly what i thought

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Days that are Cycle 2 are ordered Morning > Match > Night. Morning phases are the same length, but no voting takes place for a bye. Instead, votes are made to place one (or more) players under Suspicionfor the subsequent Match Phase, which gives their Match opponent for the Day a guaranteed colour buff (see How Matches Work). Night phases are as they were in Cycle 1. Match phases consist of whatever matches are scheduled in the bracket for that day. Scoring is best 3 of 5 rounds. Players may talk in the thread during Morning and Match phases. (SeeSpecial Notes for details on the brackets.)

Thanks. Tell me how we can't coordinate this with my plan?

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

You guys realize that this cycle isn't over yet, right?

i don't give much of a **** about this cycle as we can't lose here, all we can do is better or worsen our position

 

[Wots All This Then?]

phone cop cant message during the day because that would mean he was affecting multiple phases and rake definitely gotnthe message at night, not during the day

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

phone cop cant message during the day because that would mean he was affecting multiple phases and rake definitely gotnthe message at night, not during the day

I don't see why he would be limited. Meh.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

i don't give much of a **** about this cycle as we can't lose here, all we can do is better or worsen our position

And I'm trying to make it better. You're trying to make it better. Everyone is. I see a lot of ideas and things being thrown around but we need to action and come to a concensus eventually. This game is asking to be lost if there isn't teamwork because MAF really does have the advantage here.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

It can be ****tier for you as a replacement at this point in the game, I understand that and I'm sorry, but it is similar. It's still 'not reading'. I only asked for you to read enough to get some sort of read on people and understand why they have such reads now.

I'm sure things happen early game that you CAN get a read from. That's why I say, go read. If you have a busy life, I'm sorry, but try to break it up into bits then. It's kind of needed from a slot like you. To me, you are just talking mechanics and have a few weak reads. I want more than that. Otherwise you are dead to me..

This kinda sums up why I still don't think Circus' slot is salvageable. He may be a bit more amiable than Gheb was but he's still not doing much besides commenting on mechanics overall.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Alright, while it's bad luck that Rake got himself shot, this game is very much winnable. All we need is strategy and planning things, along with cooperation with one another. I guess this is obvious enough, but Potassium's attitude is not going to win us this game. I actually see the Cop dying a bit of a bittersweet thing. As mentioned before, with the cop dead, people are going to just cheat without repercussion. However, with moderation, we can assure that doesn't happen. This game is now a simple guess-and-check, and I'm going to fully enforce a policy of LAL (Lynch All Liars) here. If you're town, you shouldn't have any opposition and you shouldn't have to lie about anything. Now, onto the more intricate things.

I want everyone to make an oath that they won't do anything in their match phase until things are arranged. Do not play, do not make a move. It's going to very much matter who is pitted up against who and then we proceed with wielding and dealing there. I feel this would be much more easier with an example, so i'll try my best.

Let's say I'm pitted up against Pawn in the next match phase. I obviously suspect Pawn so it should be my utmost priority to win. However, some people might not be okay with me winning due to whatever reason that might be. Instead of forcing you all to trust me, I'll do the heavy work and keep a tally on a mod-esque vote-count of who should be given the win in a phase, which will be majority voted in the thread. Is this not agreeable? It presents an order and allows to keep match phases in check. Obviously, if the results are contradictory of the majority, something is fishy. Simple, is it not? Am I making sense here? Would you all agree with this?

nope

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I'm obviously not going to expect for my plan to work out in late-game when it's down to 6 or so players in the winner's bracket, but we can guarantee that it is only townies in the winning bracket by following my plan.

how can we do that? you expect that making some gogdamn beautiful plan is gonna magically make scum throw the game and let us win?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

God, washed. Please tell me if you have a ****ing better idea. I implore you.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

each scum affects only one phase of the game soup, its im the op

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I don't see why he would be limited. Meh.

because the op deliberately states that each mafia affects each phase.

you really should read that thing

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

how can we do that? you expect that making some gogdamn beautiful plan is gonna magically make scum throw the game and let us win?

No. I'm trying to win this game for my faction because you're all acting like chickens with their heads cut off. I could be stubborn and not give a ****. Like, honestly, you shoot down my idea like you have something better. Do you? Tell me. I'm open to it. I'm open to anything at this point. I know how much **** we're in and I'm trying to take action. God forbid.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

And I'm trying to make it better. You're trying to make it better. Everyone is. I see a lot of ideas and things being thrown around but we need to action and come to a concensus eventually. This game is asking to be lost if there isn't teamwork because MAF really does have the advantage here.

great where were you in morning phase 1 when i was preaching the exact same thing?

how about being a ***** and trying to peace out because you couldn't be arsed to play a game with no lynches, right?

(fwiw i'm bitter right now but your plan really does suck)

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

each scum affects only one phase of the game soup, its im the op

It's been like

2 ****ing months sorry I forgot that's ******** still

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

nabe really should have put EXPERIMENTAL in 72 point bolded red letters when signing up because holy hell

 

[Kantrip]

By all means, soup, we can throw matches to our townreads.

But we're not gonna force everyone else too.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Why? Why? You're gonna just let MAF cheat their way to victory? You ****ing understand that, right?

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

No. I'm trying to win this game for my faction because you're all acting like chickens with their heads cut off. I could be stubborn and not give a ****. Like, honestly, you shoot down my idea like you have something better. Do you? Tell me. I'm open to it. I'm open to anything at this point. I know how much **** we're in and I'm trying to take action. God forbid.

You're missing the ****ing point that Jerkus, Wott, and I have been telling you: with the cop dead, we cannot ****ing punish scum. They could literally claim at the start of cycle 2 and we could do ****all about it. You keep mentioning this plan of yours as the second sliced bread or some **** and yet you're failing to account for what we do when someone ****s up and looks suspicious. What are we gonna do, Soup? Give their opponent a 1-round color buff that, as has been stated beforehand, is merely a "don't lose" button rather than a "gj, pretty easy win" button?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

If we're acting the way we are towards this whole thing MAF might as well ****ing outright claim because nobody is trying to stop them at this point.

 

[Kantrip]

Why? Why? You're gonna just let MAF cheat their way to victory? You ****ing understand that, right?

What stops them from doing this under ANY circumstances.

They can cheat even if we tell them not to, you know.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

You're missing the ****ing point that Jerkus, Wott, and I have been telling you: with the cop dead, we cannot ****ing punish scum. They could literally claim at the start of cycle 2 and we could do ****all about it. You keep mentioning this plan of yours as the second sliced bread or some **** and yet you're failing to account for what we do when someone ****s up and looks suspicious. What are we gonna do, Soup? Give their opponent a 1-round color buff that, as has been stated beforehand, is merely a "don't lose" button rather than a "gj, pretty easy win" button?

Then this game is broken because we're directly admitting that we should no longer care about other townies come Cycle 2, only ourselves.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Why? Why? You're gonna just let MAF cheat their way to victory? You ****ing understand that, right?

How do we ****ing stop them at this point?

Thanks to your ****ing brilliant idea, they have a free character with a banned move. They found the cop. The banned move can only be used once during the match but we still have to cheat to win it from this point forward just to put us on equal footing.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

What stops them from doing this under ANY circumstances.

They can cheat even if we tell them not to, you know.

Won't they look bad in the process? I don't ****ing know. Is this just gonna turn into cheaters cheating cheaters?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

How do we ****ing stop them at this point?

Thanks to your ****ing brilliant idea, they have a free character with a banned move. They found the cop. The banned move can only be used once during the match but we still have to cheat to win it from this point forward just to put us on equal footing.

I tried really hard not to mention that but you brought it up again. Thanks.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Then this game is broken because we're directly admitting that we should no longer care about other townies come Cycle 2, only ourselves.

No because what you're saying about "letting your townreads win" is pretty gogdamn obvious to everyone who's been paying attention to this game. We discussed it in Morning 1.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I tried really hard not to mention that but you brought it up again. Thanks.

Like they're gonna magically forget. In the event that I didn't spoonfeed the cop to the mafia that means they were keeping tabs and directly figured it out themselves.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Remove: Pawndidater2

Fine.

 

[Kantrip]

Won't they look bad in the process? I don't ****ing know. Is this just gonna turn into cheaters cheating cheaters?

Yeah they will. Then what? We have no tools without cop to stop them.

You understand my defeatist thing now?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Bye: WashedLaundry

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

love ya nabe but this **** is broken lol

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Remove: Pawndidater2

Fine.

No. This still isn't the answer and you still haven't told me why he's the pick over Jerkus.

We are not removing anyone today. Do not put more removal votes on anyone.

I want to see results from the match phase tonight, even if we don't have the cop. We still have the bye'd player watching the matches to determine if a player is cheating or not, after all. He just needs to use his discretion wisely.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Yeah they will. Then what? We have no tools without cop to stop them.

You understand my defeatist thing now?

To be fair, you've been acting like a defeated ***** since Morning 1.

Hey potato, is this you?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

THEN TELL ME THE ANSWER BECAUSE THIS THREAD HAS NO DIRECTION AT ALL AND WE HAVE A BUNCH OF PEOPLE WITH DIFFERING IDEAS AND NO ****ING ORDER OR ANYTHING AT ALL AND IT'S SO FRUSTRATING TO SEE LIKE HOLY **** RAN IS OVER IN THE CORNER SPEWING ON ABOUT **** AND THEN YOU HAVE PEOPLE LIKE SHOCO AND RYU WHO HARDLY POST/CARE AND THEN YOU GOT WOTT AND PJB AND YOU AND ME AND LIEK FGDJKSNGKRDS