Koopa VS Kefka -- The Endless Tournament ends! Who took home the prize?

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I am playing it. Reads don't matter? I never said that. Read it again, because you clearly got the wrong idea.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

but this essentially does nothing because that's all they are. They're just reads.

This implies it soup.

 

[Super Fabulous]

You are going to be involved whether you like it or not, Soup.

Also PJB does that mean you'd like to remove Soup instead? (I find his wishywashyness on Gheb null, especially because I still find Gheb suspicious, don't let that convince you out of scumreading Gheb if you found Gheb scummy from his own actions in the first place)

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Soup removal not prudent at this time.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

They're just reads. They're nothing more. What are you going to do with him? Shout at me until you're blue in the face about them? How does it affect me? Why do I care? If anything, I am more interested in people's intention to give reads instead of the reads themselves. That's how I'm playing this game. You scum-read me? Pat yourself on the back. It will be easier to discern your intentions based on this. Should I be up in arms about it? Not really. Super Fab could write ten walls about me and I would probably skim over them.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

If anything, I am more interested in people's intention to give reads instead of the reads themselves.

Can you go into this a bit more? Has it gotten you anything?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Can you go into this a bit more? Has it gotten you anything?

It has. I'm not gonna say I've been keeping an ace up my sleeve but every time you guys imply that I'm not playing this game makes me laugh. I'm trying to read back and I was going to give reads-list actually.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

It has. I'm not gonna say I've been keeping an ace up my sleeve but every time you guys imply that I'm not playing this game makes me laugh. I'm trying to read back and I was going to give reads-list actually.

Cool. I'll stop bugging you till I see it then.

 

[pawndidater2]

Somebody asked me if gheb said anything interesting in the hotel room, can't find the exact quote.

All that happened was I decided where to eat and the next day Gheb came in and said he was okay with it.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I'll let people in on my thought process on this game.

I don't believe that all this arguing and trifling about other players is beneficial to the course of the game. Pressure is not as heavy without voting, which is an essential part of reading a player. Removing the key factor of votes makes it much harder to discern who is being genuine and who isn't. Scum essentially has nothing to worry about other than winning matches and keeping themselves in check. I'm going to tell you right now that this game has practically paved itself and I think town has a very large chance of winning at this point. WATT is very obvious town. So is PJB. So is Picture Perfect. So is Super Fab. I think we all agree on this. You know what's ironic about that? All those players are consistently posting. Why would scum bother themselves with caring about all of this? They wouldn't. It's why calling people scum doesn't really matter in this game because the only threat you can make against them is writing more crap that they're not going to read. However, will a Scum just not post at all? Not care at all? No. Read what I said about the removal factor again and put this into mind. Scum would jump at a opportunity to remove a townie in a heartbeart. No question. Why? Because that's the only removal. What else does Scum have to worry about after that? Nothing. Once we remove someone, we can properly start grouping players and playing a much more strategical game. We shouldn't just be stacking our Byes on people universally town-read, instead we should be taking more risks. I think it was Shoco who mentioned it, but I'm actually open to the idea of Bye'ing scum players against town ones. Why? Because 3 points is better than 2, and even if a townie loses against another then it's easy to just bye them. Does that make sense? Am I being clear here? Please stop me for elaboration if you need it.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Sysmatically speaking:

Scum has 6 points. He received one bye and he won one game.
Townie has 3 points. He received one bye and lost one game.

Scum has 4 points. He recieved two byes.
Townie has 4 points. He recieved two byes.

Scum has 2 points. He lost both games, and was caught for cheating
Townie has 5 points. He won both games.

Do you see how this stacks up?

 

[Super Fabulous]

I think it's good to talk about who we suspect so we have an idea of who to remove with the one removal. (And so the cop can have a chance to cop whoever wasn't removed)

 

[Wots All This Then?]

I'll let people in on my thought process on this game.

I don't believe that all this arguing and trifling about other players is beneficial to the course of the game. Pressure is not as heavy without voting, which is an essential part of reading a player. Removing the key factor of votes makes it much harder to discern who is being genuine and who isn't. Scum essentially has nothing to worry about other than winning matches and keeping themselves in check. I'm going to tell you right now that this game has practically paved itself and I think town has a very large chance of winning at this point. WATT is very obvious town. So is PJB. So is Picture Perfect. So is Super Fab. I think we all agree on this. You know what's ironic about that? All those players are consistently posting. Why would scum bother themselves with caring about all of this? They wouldn't. It's why calling people scum doesn't really matter in this game because the only threat you can make against them is writing more crap that they're not going to read. However, will a Scum just not post at all? Not care at all? No. Read what I said about the removal factor again and put this into mind. Scum would jump at a opportunity to remove a townie in a heartbeart. No question. Why? Because that's the only removal. What else does Scum have to worry about after that? Nothing. Once we remove someone, we can properly start grouping players and playing a much more strategical game. We shouldn't just be stacking our Byes on people universally town-read, instead we should be taking more risks. I think it was Shoco who mentioned it, but I'm actually open to the idea of Bye'ing scum players against town ones. Why? Because 3 points is better than 2, and even if a townie loses against another then it's easy to just bye them. Does that make sense? Am I being clear here? Please stop me for elaboration if you need it.

Still my idea here. If you can explain it a tad more then dietz did, that'd be nice. Do you think this is more applicable in the later day phases?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I know I was a firm believer of scum not having to cheat, but I'm starting to question myself as I believe that scum will, and can cheat. Winning is more important than getting a Bye. Surface game isn't important to scum here, it's all about planning.

I know someone is going to say: "But soup, if we bye the mafia then what will the tourney cop do!?!?!?" There's more than one mafia. Throw scum into the lion's den. Force their hand. Don't let them get off scot free.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Still my idea here. If you can explain it a tad more then dietz did, that'd be nice. Do you think this is more applicable in the later day phases?

I think it's applicable right now.

 

[Super Fabulous]

Can't bye'ing mafia give them more information then we'd want to let on?

 

[Wots All This Then?]

I know I was a firm believer of scum not having to cheat, but I'm starting to question myself as I believe that scum will, and can cheat. Winning is more important than getting a Bye. Surface game isn't important to scum here, it's all about planning.

I know someone is going to say: "But soup, if we bye the mafia then what will the tourney cop do!?!?!?" There's more than one mafia. Throw scum into the lion's den. Force their hand. Don't let them get off scot free.

I like this post.

Can't bye'ing mafia give them more information then we'd want to let on?

actually, it only gives them information on matches of other players. They can't get their own information, which includes banned moves.
Mod-can you clarify if scum know each others identities?

 

[Super Fabulous]

So Pawn, are you still lost as to what to do? Just wondering. You only seem to come in to respond to our requests. I don't know if that's how you usually play though. What do you think of the recent conversations about Soup and his theories as well?

 

[#HBC | Joker]

You are going to be involved whether you like it or not, Soup.

Also PJB does that mean you'd like to remove Soup instead? (I find his wishywashyness on Gheb null, especially because I still find Gheb suspicious, don't let that convince you out of scumreading Gheb if you found Gheb scummy from his own actions in the first place)

No, I'm not scumreading soup hard enough to want to remove him. He's on my suspect list, but he's not my biggest priority. The truth is, while I do suspect gheb, Gheb was also not really somebody I wanted to remove either. The two of them are kind of in the same boat for me.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

my with the state of this thread right now.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

No, I'm not scumreading soup hard enough to want to remove him. He's on my suspect list, but he's not my biggest priority. The truth is, while I do suspect gheb, Gheb was also not really somebody I wanted to remove either. The two of them are kind of in the same boat for me.

talk to me about 2129 and 2130.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Same actually goes for PP when he gets back^

 

[Super Fabulous]

Like, seriously, you just added a reason for me to not want to remove gheb. You wanting to remove gheb, makes me want to keep him. Welcome to the game, soup. Start playing it.

Then I don't get why just because of something Soup said, made you re-consider removing Gheb. I thought it was connection related. (I would understand if it was because of something Gheb did himself)

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I think it's good to talk about who we suspect so we have an idea of who to remove with the one removal. (And so the cop can have a chance to cop whoever wasn't removed)

I was about to go into this.

Player List:
1. Wots All This Then? (Orboknown/JDietz43)
2. pawndidater2
3. Ryker giraffelasergun
4. PrivateJoker-Brown
5. Shocodoro Blagshidect (Sephiroths Masamune/Xonar)
6. thethirdkoopa
7. Red Ruy
8. Gheb_01
9. Picture Perfect (J/WashedLaundry)
10. soup
11. Potassium
12. Super Fabulous (-Masquerain/Ranmaru)
13. Anomandaris_Rake

Green = Town
Light Green = Lean town
Yellow = Null
Orange = Lean scum
Red = Scum

There are 4 mafia. There are 9 townies. Removing a townie would be troublesome for us, but not anything we can bounce back. Scum is at a disadvantage in the numbers game. Nabe specifically gave them a ton of background power because of this. Scum is going to jump at an opportunity to remove a townie. That's evident enough. It might be risky but it's worth the risk and if people agree enough to it, I can guarantee that a removal is very beneficial to us. I don't feel like repeating myself, but If you guys really need more elabroation then I guess I can continue onwards.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Soup look at the removal tallies. Who do you feel is the one likeliest scum from what you are positing?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Alright, now can anyone tell me, based on your Gheb read, that you believe scum was on the Gheb wagon?

Removal Votecount
Gheb (

): Ryu, Koops, Pixp, Soup

I know there were others on it before, but it seems some of you backed out This is actually just as important too.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Soup look at the removal tallies. Who do you feel is the one likeliest scum from what you are positing?

If I had to make a guess, I would lean on Koops but he's rather more null than anything. I wanna look at previous logs. Are we all in agreement to use the removal come next phase however?

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Fab was on there, and I think one more was. Koops I can see being scum if we believe scum to be on the wagon.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Scarily in sync ninja.
I'm actually cool with removal tomorrow if we nail down things regarding it today.

 

[Super Fabulous]

We were on it before but decided to wait a day or two to use the removal. (Which I'm fine with doing day3 or day4)

Soup can you explain your pawn read? I don't remember what you said about him.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

talk to me about 2129 and 2130.

you mean the whole "let's give scum the byes" plan? I think it's totally something we can do in the future, yes. I'd want to get the obvtownies as much inside info, and accumulate some points to fall back on first. One we've got ourselves some points to work with, then we'll actually know how we want to manipulate things.

For example, Gheb has a pretty good lead right now. He's got 6 points already. Even if he's a scummer that we could all agree on, givign him the bye isn't a good idea because it won't do enough to damage his point total, it'll just give him a free boost. If we want gheb's points to come down, somebody has to beat him, or catch him cheating (even better).

I'm not far behind him with my 5 points, but I am behind. I probably won't want another bye, at least not for awhile. Thing is, those byes do provide valuable information, and it's only going to get more and more valuable as the game goes on. Once we start finding out who plays what characters, and what moves they tend to use to cover options, being able to actively choose what gaps of information to fill in is going to be a huge asset that I don't want to give scum during the final round.

 

[Super Fabulous]

I'm down with it too and feel we should also try to at least give suggestions to the cop for who to cop. (Because it's kinda up to the removal and him doing well to nab scum)

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

We were on it before but decided to wait a day or two to use the removal. (Which I'm fine with doing day3 or day4)

Soup can you explain your pawn read? I don't remember what you said about him.

I can't even remember it. I recall disliking how Potassium got 2-0'd by him. Speaking of, would anyone be up to removing Potassium?

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Then I don't get why just because of something Soup said, made you re-consider removing Gheb. I thought it was connection related. (I would understand if it was because of something Gheb did himself)

it didnt' make me reconsider it. I never wanted to remove gheb in the first place. Have you been reading anythign I said during the entire morning phase wrt this? I've said it I don't know how many times. I have never, at any point in the game, advocated for gheb's removal.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

I can't even remember it. I recall disliking how Potassium got 2-0'd by him. Speaking of, would anyone be up to removing Potassium?

not at the moment. I'm uneasy in my read though.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Joker, look back at the colors rake said he used against gheb. then look at the colors you saw him use. Specifically in the first round. Find the wtf moment.

post grabbed for alert.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I'm down with it too and feel we should also try to at least give suggestions to the cop for who to cop. (Because it's kinda up to the removal and him doing well to nab scum)

Not important honestly. I'd trust Tourney Cop's judgement and even then the Tourney Cop isn't specifically for the town either. He's actually more than an indy than anything. Need I remind everyone he only needs to catch cheaters[/b[ not mafia.

 

[Super Fabulous]

Potassium would be a D2 lynch in a game with only one lynch. I still prioritize Gheb because he's the safest bet for us to nab scum in my eyes.

Also sorry PJB, then I didn't remember your stance on the gheb removal, I thought you meant 'reconsider' when you said "You just added a reason for me not to want to remove gheb". My bad for assuming. I have been reading but I can't remember everything especially how the game drags out a bit and how I can only really remember what I feel is suspicious. (Like the soup quotes I brought up)

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Potassium would be a D2 lynch in a game with only one lynch. I still prioritize Gheb because he's the safest bet for us to nab scum in my eyes.

But shoco though

 

[Super Fabulous]

I can't even remember it. I recall disliking how Potassium got 2-0'd by him. Speaking of, would anyone be up to removing Potassium?

Ah. Do you think they are both scum together or it's a TvS situation?