Koopa VS Kefka -- The Endless Tournament ends! Who took home the prize?

[Wots All This Then?]

Joker, you should watch Rake or kant's match imo.
actually people should weigh in on this since Joker can tell me whatever he sees.
actually Rake you willing to give me the information about your match toNight?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

. I guess you haven't read any of my posts because I've stated why I realized I should be playing this more like a regular game.

I didn't. I skimmed you. I'll look again, however I'm not through with this, and I believe I would like to know more, considering that you're still falling back on the fact there are no lynches.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Oh, it was your big post. Okay. Congratulations. This doesn't tie up what I need from you because what you say in that paragraph isn't relevant to me. I don't care that you want to talk about mechanics.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Rake put a shoco read in that big post.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Shoco is blegh and should die ?

That sounds right. he shouldn't have been a fan of mine whenever he was. dat makes no sense

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Agr eed.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Geez that's a lot of requests that involves a lot of digging through the thread.

Going to a movie, will do it tomorrow

This post is a good example already.

I'm also really not up for digging through the thread right now.

I'm pretty sure my Rake dislike was right after Rake did something dislike-able. Dislike of you is partially tied into what J said. Really hate the way you defended soup if soup is town. Will expand, tomorrow.

Yeah you're scum. This post is terrible, I said you were scum before J, I said I will expand more tomorrow, and you are jumping at my throat.

I am half-assing because I HAVEN'T LAID THEM OUT YET

At what point in the game do I have to force you to do anything? Why is it my responsibility to make you get out of the background when nearly every game I've seen you in you've done the exact opposite?

I seriously have no clue how soup or Xonar think this guy is town

This Shocodoro Blecktard likes soup and Rake and dislikes me?

What is the world coming to?

BRB gonna change my playstyle to **** and complain when people pressure me, use some AtE, look at the mechanics of the setup, and get ****-all done.

What do you feel is more likely: Kantrip backing out of a stance on his partner and not solidifying his scumread, or him backing out of a stance because Rake is town and he didn't really have a solidified scum-read in the first place? I feel like Kantrip would have no problem distancing his partner here, and would even go so far to throw him under the bus if need be. However, this isn't the case. It makes me feel like there's a possibility for Rake being town for this matter, however, Rake's reaction to all this is very unsettling. I'm not sure what his intent was to bring up my post about Kantrip, but to not lead on it or do anything with it is suspicious. If it really bothered Rake in the first place, why did it only come to fruition now? I don't understand it, and I don't understand why Rake is being so stubborn to do anything. I want to go with my first instinct but I don't believe Rake would feel so afraid of outing his reads at this point, especially when we're 750 posts in. Do you recall a solidified stance from Rake? I have been skimming his posts, but I don't ever get that feeling from him. There's also a concern in how he's treating others and pressure. He went so far to write two goddamn paragraphs for WATT calling him out on his bull****. The need to defend yourself so much is either a townie who is frustrated, or a scum who is trying to be justifiable. I don't believe Rake would come to those precautions, let alone care. The change in attitude of this is also weird, because if you look earlier, Rake openly stated that he didn't care and "he wanted to take more time" with things. I just don't buy it.

@ Underlined: Because townies don't let townies stay in the dark Rake. You just told us you DID have something to add. But it took multiple people calling out your slot multiple times to make that happen.

As town you should have been very concerned that two other people in your starting room had a fundamentally different view on a game mechanic than you. I'd have very much expected even if you didn't care at all why we thought the way we did (and you should very much care about that, this is mafia), you'd have at least had the decency to enlighten others as to why you thought of your initial stance.

@Bolded: Anything. Literally anything with logic behind it besides "It's obvious". This is mafia, and moreover it's an experimental game of mafia. I'm not taking "I was afraid of being wrong" as a legitimate Rake answer. People are going to be wrong at times about this game, but it's the rest of town's job to inform them of what seems more right so it can be sorted.

I did but it was unfinished.

I was a little concerned but moreso with my own stuff, I could always follow up with you later.

Decency ? My initial stance was to win lol. Why would i not want to win ?

I can't remember what the quote you bolded said, i'll get back to this.

You should get back in here.
Also, Dietz thinks that pawns posts are scummy. you should tell him why they aren't in your opinion.

Tell dietz to talk to me about this.

PS: If the tourney cop makes his public guess at a member of mafia at the end of cycle 1 and guesses wrong, I want everyone acutely aware that we still get a clear out of that.

And you BETTER let that clear move up in bracket any way you can if you're in match with them, even if you don't think they're as strong a player as you, because they've literally been mod-cleared at that point as town.

This i like.

If you're going to say something, you need to point out what you're talking about. Don't be lazy and tell me I'm contradicting myself when you can't point as to what was contradictory. You throw out AtE like it's even relevant in this situation, as I'm pretty sure I haven't been doing any of the sort in my latest burst of activity. This laziness attributes why I scum-read you, on top of the fact you feel the need to throw out statements like this hoping it will stick. Did you really change your stance from me being town the last time you popped your face to scum in the matter of something so simple as "AtE and contradictory?" And if so, what? You're not a moron and I'm not going to treat you one. You of all people should know how important it is to solidify a stance and if you actually care for something then you would being so. You don't. You don't care. You're scum and you're talking out of your *** because you don't want to put the effort into actually doing something because you feel there is no reason to. I believe as town, you wouldn't think this way. You would want to try and convince everyone what is scummy about me and be more cautious. This is my second reason for scum-reading you. You come in here, quote one post by me and you're certain on me being scum for...what reason now? Your certainty is fake. Your reasoning is fake. You are fake.

gheb/RR reads.

Confused why Gheb suddenly has a opinion on me, strong enough to announce his intention not to cheat. Don't remember being in any of his posts beforehand, RR nulltown.

Joker, you should watch Rake or kant's match imo.
actually people should weigh in on this since Joker can tell me whatever he sees.
actually Rake you willing to give me the information about your match toNight?

Information like what I chose or did you mean ?

Anyway, kantrip is scum, Soup's post i quoted is almost exactly how I feel right now. Kantrip is faking his stance on me, just like his stance on soup. kantrip's been *****-footing around standing toe to toe with me, and especially like we saw earlier in thread, because he has no clout to follow it with. He's just copying pasting Watt's displeasure and hoping people don't look twice at it. The post's i have of kantrip show hius unwillingness and defensiveness towards people when they try to get his angle, he's only interested in looking townie, because he's scum. He even admits and gets angry at people because he's trying so hard and people don't cut him a break.

Kantrip should go.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

tired.

Leaving now.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

I like his reads.

Really? I don't. Are you sure you aren't just flattered he called half of your hydra town?

I certainly don't like him coming in after all this time with mechanics talk that we've already personally ironed out and claiming it as his own, and certainly not with any logic that implies we should NOT use our removal unless we have two scumspects, that just slows down town for no gain.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

His Soup/Gheb reads. I also like that he was getting into the game and not just talking about mechanics. (Ie: going over reads)

I like that he's doing this, but this won't bump him up to town. Just for null now and I'll see how he plays out after a while.

You're actually kidding right?

 

[Wots All This Then?]

I can't remember what the quote you bolded said, i'll get back to this.



Tell dietz to talk to me about this.

The last quote was to your question of "What would you have liked to hear?". Basically anything but nothing was the answer.


Go for it wrt Pawn reads.

 

[Kantrip]

Really? I don't. Are you sure you aren't just flattered he called half of your hydra town?

I certainly don't like him coming in after all this time with mechanics talk that we've already personally ironed out and claiming it as his own, and certainly not with any logic that implies we should NOT use our removal unless we have two scumspects, that just slows down town for no gain.

The mechanics stuff was my own thoughts. The cheat against scumreads thing and the let tourney cops win thing? Where else is that in thread besides from me?

 

[#HBC | Joker]

to be fair, I can see Kantrip's logic in not using our removal vote on the first scum we find. Letting the tourney cop remove them, and thus, taking their spot in bracket, gives us a 100% cleared player in bracket. It would actually be a really smart idea to guarantee that a townie was safely advancing through bracket.

However, the flaw in Kantrip's plan is that we have no recourse to punish people who don't comply.

On Removal: During any Morning Phase in Cycle 1, players may vote to Remove one player from the game permanently. This is done by simple majority, like a Lynch in traditional Mafia games. Votes towards Removal must be specified as such, or they will be counted as the regular Morning Phase votes (Bye/Suspicion) for that Cycle. Removal can only be used once in the whole game. Removal does not have to be used, and should be used carefully if at all, since the loss of even one Town or MAF member can shift the tides dramatically.

We can't vote to remove players once the cop is cleared. Perhaps you should have taken a glance at the rules before cooking up this plan. It took me exactly 5 seconds to find this, because it's literally the first sentence in the section that explains removal.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Also, we get a cleared player in bracket no matter what. We should absolutely use our vote to remove somebody we think is scum, because the tourney cop doesn't need to be right. If he guesses wrong, and doesn't remove a mafia, then the person he accuses is also in bracket, and is confirmed town.

So even if the plan worked, there'd be no reason to not try and remove all the scum we can.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

The reason I have Rake as town is simply because he's not guilty of anything. Sure, he *could* be more active and stuff but he can't be considered worringly inactive in contrast to pawn, Shoco or t3k [leaving out Ryker cuz he got legit johns]. Even PPs and RRs random bursts of activity don't make them that much more active than the Rake tbqh. In terms of scuminess he's out of the pool mainly due to PoE. If I had to name 4 scumbags on the spot I'd say that soup, Kantrip, PP and Shoco are the strongest contenders right now. Rake is more on the level of Ryu - not very active, not very useful atm but very likely not scum, which in this game equals town.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Also, I'll try to be more active tomorrow.

 

[Super Fabulous]

@PJB: How has your read on Kantrip progressed? Also, what do you think of the points against him? I was wondering why you only talk about the mechanics post he made but not really state if you agree/disagree with his play, since others have been talking about him. Don't you think you are focusing a little too much on the mechanics aspect?

Really? I don't..

What I liked was that he gave explanation of his reads. You said "Really, I don't" but never really went into the reads part. You just went on to the mechanics. Can you explain why you don't like his reads? Also tell me how him 'claiming' credit makes him scum over town.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Town: WATT, PJB, Ryu, Fab, Rake
Null: Pawn, Ryker, 3rdkoopa
Scum: soup, Kantrip, PP, Shoco

Are my current reads. There are things I'd like to add with regards to these reads once I have the time for it.

 

[Super Fabulous]

Confused why Gheb suddenly has a opinion on me, strong enough to announce his intention not to cheat. Don't remember being in any of his posts beforehand, RR nulltown.

I actually feel Gheb has had sudden opinions before. I will re-post what I didn't like about Gheb:

Don't try to play us for suckers!

@blue: Both statements need citation. Nothing about WATT's posts disallows other people from making input, not even implicitly. I also don't see them attempting to force anything.
@red: Completely wrong. If what you are accusing WATT of were actually true then it would be a scumtell by all means. You also fail to explain what kind of position you are talking about when you say "such a position" and why they'd want to avoid it.
@green: Why not? In all honesty, it's you who has been making that kind of input - a lot of "captain obvious"-style statements that will either get ignored or be pointed out as such. This looks more like justifying your own play as townie rather than WATT's who really hasn't done anything you've accused him of.

This post is weird to me. Gheb talks about this post but isn't really looking at Soup as a scumspect ever. I mean it just felt like he analyzed this to just analyze it. Then the rest of the day was just mechanics.

Is there something like a bye count?

Fab or PJB seem like decent choices. It probabnly won't matter too much toDay anyway. I'll think about it some more and select a bye tomorrow.

I don't like that Gheb had given those choices without really stating why. I don't know if this was recent enough for him to have a valid reason not to have elaborated, but if this was a while ago then it still stands.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

On the contrary. I've requested to remove soup or have him investigated by the cop numerous times during the Day. Given this game's mechanics that's more or less equivalent to "looking at somebody as scumspect." What else am I supposed to do? What have you been doing that much more substantial that allows you to point fingers at me here?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Whoops, missed that part:

I don't like that Gheb had given those choices without really stating why.

It's well known that I don't explain my town-reads unless specifically asked for them. You hold something perfectly acceptable against me.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

@PJB: How has your read on Kantrip progressed? Also, what do you think of the points against him? I was wondering why you only talk about the mechanics post he made but not really state if you agree/disagree with his play, since others have been talking about him. Don't you think you are focusing a little too much on the mechanics aspect?

I don't really know what the points are against him. He honestly doesn't seem scummy to me, he just seems like kantplay.

Like, I've seen him be dumb before and thought "omfg, he is being so mad scummy right now, let's hardbody him!" and been totally wrong. In this game though? Not even scummy looking to me, I dunno why. I'm either getting better at reading him, or he's totally scum and I'm still clueless about reading him. Totally leaning towards me getting better at reading him.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

The reason I have Rake as town is simply because he's not guilty of anything. Sure, he *could* be more active and stuff but he can't be considered worringly inactive in contrast to pawn, Shoco or t3k [leaving out Ryker cuz he got legit johns]. Even PPs and RRs random bursts of activity don't make them that much more active than the Rake tbqh. In terms of scuminess he's out of the pool mainly due to PoE. If I had to name 4 scumbags on the spot I'd say that soup, Kantrip, PP and Shoco are the strongest contenders right now. Rake is more on the level of Ryu - not very active, not very useful atm but very likely not scum, which in this game equals town.

Explain PP for me. if you've done so before, quote it.

Whoops, missed that part:
It's well known that I don't explain my town-reads unless specifically asked for them. You hold something perfectly acceptable against me.

I feel like town reads are a lot more important in this game since mafia cannot directly remove them afaik aside form knocking him out of match phase via poison, and even that doesn't change much.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

we don't know that mafia can't do stuff to mess with us though. Like, we know they have some kind of ability that would allow them to mess with the tourney cop, but we don't know that it can't be applicable to any of us.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Notsure what that would be considering it's basically modconfirmed no NK

 

[Super Fabulous]

Gheb I'll get to you later since I'm gonna play some PSO2 but WOTTS you still haven't answered me. Please do man.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

wrong head bro.

 

[Super Fabulous]

Oh lol. Carry on.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Notsure what that would be considering it's basically modconfirmed no NK

I'm not sure either, but unless the thing they do to the tourney cop is blocking his ability to catch cheaters (essentially a roleblock), I can't think of any reason it wouldn't be able to affect us too.

Though now that I think about it, the roleblock thing is pretty likely.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

why do they need to affect anything aside from the tourney cop considering we are all vanillas?

 

[Wots All This Then?]

this is actually a somewhat fruitful if speculative line of thought.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Well it's possible that they could have some effect on our matches, but the food poisoning mechanic already does that, so I have my doubts about a second option.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

it occurs to me that a mafiat could potentially tamper with our controller, causing our inputs to be off.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

baseless speculation, of course, but it would make sense both mechanically and flavorwise for them to maybe be able to do that. It would also give them incentive to room with obvtownies, so they could get to your controller during the night, or lunch phases.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

if it's not a mechanic already, it totally should be if this format gets run again in the future.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

it occurs to me that a mafiat could potentially tamper with our controller, causing our inputs to be off.

Well it's possible that they could have some effect on our matches, but the food poisoning mechanic already does that, so I have my doubts about a second option.

There is a mafiat who masses with match phase, but it's either the mafiat with more information or the mafiat who wants to **** this game over so his fighting game community survives, Work on what we know,lunch phase is already accounted for.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Pp your opinion of ryker change now that he'sreplacing out due to family issues?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

prod dodge will get to this tomarrow.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Information like what I chose or did you mean ?
.

Stuff along that line. Missed this earlier.

 

[Kantrip]

Town: WATT, PJB, Ryu, Fab, Rake
Null: Pawn, Ryker, 3rdkoopa
Scum: soup, Kantrip, PP, Shoco

Are my current reads. There are things I'd like to add with regards to these reads once I have the time for it.

soup and me are SvS? You're going to need to explain this.