Kirby's worst matchups and why? Also, how to deal with a Kirby who spams Bairs?

[finalstain]

First I wanna know what kirby's hardest matchups are, and what exactly makes them so hard.

Second I wanna know how to the best way to combat against a kirby who frequently spams well-spaced Sh'd Bairs over and over again. I could be wrong, but it seems to me that this move has great range, good priority, and is very hard to punish if properly spaced.

 

[momochuu]

First I wanna know what kirby's hardest matchups are, and what exactly makes them so hard.

Snake- Camping is the bane of his existence
Marth- Spacing is too good
Metaknight- I guess, lol. He's just Metaknight. Not much else to say...
Ice Climbers (According to the matchup thread, not bias, lol)- Kirby's easy to chaingrab. And ICs can camp with Ice Block and Blizzard.
Zelda- Range. Din's.

Second I wanna know how to the best way to combat against a kirby who frequently spams well-spaced Sh'd Bairs over and over again. I could be wrong, but it seems to me that this move has great range, good priority, and is very hard to punish if properly spaced.

Shield. That's pretty much it. =X

 

[finalstain]

Shield. That's pretty much it. =X

lol. How is the priority on his bair? I think the main reason it gives me trouble is because I'm always afraid of it... maybe when I shouldnt be.

 

[fromundaman]

Well, I see you play G&W. Just hit him with your turtle. Turtle goes through everything ever.

 

[GeorgeTHPS]

Game & Watch can be easily beaten if the Kirby player predicts what Game & Watch going to do, but it also works vice versa as well. Kirby has a decent enough shield that he can shield grab G&W's bair if done correctly, but proper spacing makes this difficult. His bair is also vulnerable from the top and final cutter also outranges it (proper timing is key), but nair will protect him from Kirby's dair if he sees one coming his way. Kirby can pretty much just shield camp the rest of G&W's moves. Dair can be shield grabbed. If he does an attack right after dair, Kirby can hit him with a bair. G&W's grab range is bad enough that if Kirby is spacing correctly, he shouldn't worry about getting grabbed and tech chased.

If the Kirby player can get around the Game & Watch player's bair, it's likely he'll become frustrated and start using his unsafe moves like dair and his smashes. But if Kirby becomes frustrated with being unable to space his bairs against Game & Watch, he'll probably start spamming f-smash or something ridiculous like that.

 

[fromundaman]

Very good description. I just meant G&W Bair beats our own (and a whole lot of other moves).
THPS pretty much has it spot on though.

 

[A1lion835]

In response to bunny, MK v Kirby is actually pretty neutral. I was shocked when I first heard that too.

 

[SmileyStation]

In response to bunny, MK v Kirby is actually pretty neutral. I was shocked when I first heard that too.

I agree with this 100%. I ****in love fighting MKs OMG! So much fun.

 

[Asdioh]

In response to bunny, MK v Kirby is actually pretty neutral. I was shocked when I first heard that too.

I saw someone argue that really well, but from my own experiences, it's total bull****.

I agree with this 100%. I ****in love fighting MKs OMG! So much fun.

I used to think that too

Meta Knight beats Kirby in almost every aspect.

Tell me, what does Kirby have on the ground to beat a grounded Shuttle Loop (which comes out instantly and has invincibility frames?)

In the air, what does Kirby have to beat Tornado? Sure his fsmash beats tornado, but you can't use that in the air. I've seen someone say that Bair beats tornado, but out of the many many bairs I've thrown at tornados, not one has landed. It seems the only way Kirby can beat tornado in the air: possibly Dair, which requires perfect spacing and prediction. I've used NAIR to beat Tornado once, but that was just total luck. I've fallen on top of Tornado as a Stone, and it didn't even stop it. I have KO'd Meta Knights using tornado with Aerial Hammer, but the startup lag is too unrealistic in most situations (plus I took damage as well, so it's ridiculously hard to space)

What's harder to punish: Kirby's fsmash or MK's dsmash? -_-
Fsmash is the one great thing Kirby has in this matchup, but it is far more punishable than any move that MK will use.
In fact, many times if you land a hit on MK, even with perfect spacing, his attacks reach so far and come out so fast that you will get punished for it. For example, vulcan jab. No matter what I do, I will get ftilted by a good MK before I can cancel the jabs and shield. So it's just a trade of hits. Even sometimes if I hit him with Bair at low percentages, Kirby's Bair stays out long enough that he can attack me before I can airdodge.

And of course, MK can gimp Kirby surprisingly easily..I played Mero15's MK in a bunch of games and I kept getting stagespiked and daired out of recovery range so many times. Of course, wifi makes it harder to airdodge in time and walltech, but MK definitely has the advantage offstage as well. So MK beats you on the ground, in the air, and offstage.


Kirby has some things going for him in this matchup (or rather, some things not going against him as much as some other characters have against MK) but if you guys play a MK who is smart and abuses him to his full potential, you'll see how this matchup is definitely not neutral.

/rant

 

[CaliburChamp]

If you play carefully and predict well it is a neutral match. Or maybe it just easier for me to understand how to play against MK's since I also use him and Kirby. I know the match up really good, so maybe you guys have to learn the match up more, and you'll see that its a neutral one.

 

[8BitRevolver]

yea i can believe kirby is even with mk, hes one of the only characters that can hang with mk's airial game and still have a decent ground game. you just have to stay above or below mk to punish his moves like tornado, shuttle loop, dair stuff like that. also a well spaced bair eats through most of his approaches.

also if you main gaw you shouldnt have a problem playing a kirby who spams bair since the turtle forces kirby to stay more on the ground and takes away most of his approaches

 

[momochuu]

In response to bunny, MK v Kirby is actually pretty neutral. I was shocked when I first heard that too.

I actually found that out to be true myself, lol. The match is gonna be long as hell, but it's actually pretty neutral.

 

[Falconv1.0]

MK is a *****, he beats Kirby at like everything. It's neutral enough so that you can win, but it's in MK's favor, anyone who disagrees with this hasn't played a good MK recently.


lol Marth


His hardest match ups are people who can beat his high priority moves and camp his *** off. Snake can destroy Kirby with his big tilts, camping, and he's a heavy mofo.

G&W lives for ****ing forever, easily outspaces Kirby, it's a stupid ****ing match, I hate it. Still, if you can handle the bair it's more of an issue on how effing long he lives. I do enjoy frustrating G&W's by just refusing to get hit by the bair, lol. There's some specific time in the attack where you can grab him through the bair, or at least that's what I remember hearing at my last tourney.

IC's are whores. End of discussion.

And yes, Bair is an amazing ****ing move.

 

[T-nuts]

55-45 in favor of MK is reasonable.

Probably only like, 5-6 characters MK has a harder time with than kirby (thats a guess) off the top of my head i would say snake, donkey kong, diddy kong, and marth are harder than kirby as MK but im sure there are more.

yet kirby is still at a disadvantage. so dumb.

Tell me, what does Kirby have on the ground to beat a grounded Shuttle Loop (which comes out instantly and has invincibility frames?)

roll behind him. THIS CONFUSE META KNIGHT

 

[Asdioh]

MK is a *****, he beats Kirby at like everything. It's neutral enough so that you can win, but it's in MK's favor, anyone who disagrees with this hasn't played a good MK recently.


lol Marth


His hardest match ups are people who can beat his high priority moves and camp his *** off. Snake can destroy Kirby with his big tilts, camping, and he's a heavy mofo.

G&W lives for ****ing forever, easily outspaces Kirby, it's a stupid ****ing match, I hate it. Still, if you can handle the bair it's more of an issue on how effing long he lives. I do enjoy frustrating G&W's by just refusing to get hit by the bair, lol. There's some specific time in the attack where you can grab him through the bair, or at least that's what I remember hearing at my last tourney.

IC's are whores. End of discussion.

And yes, Bair is an amazing ****ing move.

I think I like you.

Is G&W living forever because of the bucket momentum cancel? Because I never have trouble with G&W living forever, but none of my opponents so far have used the bucket like that. I'd rather fight a G&W than a MK anyday. He's so easy to read and I find it surprisingly easy to maneuver around his Dair and f/bair. The problem I have is that he can just stand still and spam smashes and I will most likely run into them and get killed because they are SO STRONG, SO FAST, AND HAVE SUCH A HUGE REACH.

However, this is because wifi is terribad... I wouldn't have trouble with G&W smashes offline.

ICs have chaingrab and down b (which has a massive range) but other than that they're not too hard. Vulcan Jab owns them up close, upthrow can separate especially on platforms, spaced Bairs are hard for them to punish, Fsmash ftw, Starshot gimps, Final Cutter from a distance (also beats their Ice Blocks, and is likely to hit the CPU IC because it usually shields slower than the player)

roll behind him. THIS CONFUSE META KNIGHT

:/

dsmash.

 

[Falconv1.0]

I think I like you.

Is G&W living forever because of the bucket momentum cancel? Because I never have trouble with G&W living forever, but none of my opponents so far have used the bucket like that. I'd rather fight a G&W than a MK anyday. He's so easy to read and I find it surprisingly easy to maneuver around his Dair and f/bair. The problem I have is that he can just stand still and spam smashes and I will most likely run into them and get killed because they are SO STRONG, SO FAST, AND HAVE SUCH A HUGE REACH.

However, this is because wifi is terribad... I wouldn't have trouble with G&W smashes offline.

ICs have chaingrab and down b (which has a massive range) but other than that they're not too hard. Vulcan Jab owns them up close, upthrow can separate especially on platforms, spaced Bairs are hard for them to punish, Fsmash ftw, Starshot gimps, Final Cutter from a distance (also beats their Ice Blocks, and is likely to hit the CPU IC because it usually shields slower than the player)

:/

dsmash.

Yeah, people here in Nor Cal picked up on the Bucket Brake quickly. Even when I played Snake G&W could live for freaking forever. G&W lives longer than most heavy characters now, it's ********, and I hate A2ZOMG for it, lol.

I'd rather face MK because I feel like I can freaking kill him.

Anyways, Snake seems to be a great counterpick for like all those chars, cept for IC's, idunno bout them.

 

[T-nuts]

:/

dsmash.

Yeah. dtilt and ftilt also shut down roll dodge. but if you anticipate a ground vs ground shuttle loop, then roll dodge, spot dodge, or just shield is your best move. the problem is if you guess wrong. if you shield and MK uses dtilt, ouch. you spot dodge and he uses ftilt, uh oh. you roll dodge and he uses any of those three moves, and its bad news too.

 

[fromundaman]

Quick question, what's G&W's bucket brakeand does it stop his vertical movement, or just his horizontal movement? (I ask because I found a hyphen smash is usually the easiest way for me to kill G&W on most stages)

 

[Asdioh]

mk is broken

Yeah I kinda wish the SBR banned him.

But I'm not going into any debate about it, I'm tired of it :[

*reminisces about the good old days of when he thought MK sucked*

Until I asked allisbrawl chat for a good MK to show me why he was so "broken" and Master Raven happily offered. >_>

edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuXBIYnMuTE bucket brake

 

[T-nuts]

*reminisces about the good old days of when he thought MK sucked*

lol, when i first played the game, MK was the first character i picked. i quickly decided he sucked and changed to ike next (who i also thought sucked, but lets be honest hes no MK)

 

[fromundaman]

edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuXBIYnMuTE bucket brake

ZOMG WTF HAX!

...

That's gay...



Also, when I first played the game, I played as MK, loved him and mained him, but I didn't quite see how amazing he was until long afterwards (like for example I saw Dair as his best move after Dsmash (with glide attack getting an honorary 3rd), and rarely ever used my B moves).

 

[Falconv1.0]

MK scrubs make me laugh.

Really, learn the match with a character who can win and profit. Falco can cg to dair, then chill with lasers, Snake has a big *****, and Diddy has his stupid ****ing nanerz. I could go on.

AND BTW, ANY AREA THAT HASN'T HAD A WIDE USE OF BUCKET BRAKING SUUUUUUCKS.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Yeah, people here in Nor Cal picked up on the Bucket Brake quickly. Even when I played Snake G&W could live for freaking forever. G&W lives longer than most heavy characters now, it's ********, and I hate A2ZOMG for it, lol.

I'd rather face MK because I feel like I can freaking kill him.

EL OH EL

G&W is hard for Kirby mainly cause if he's patient, his D-tilt, B-air, and N-air edgecamping effectively counter 90% of Kirby's strategies. Once you're actually inside his range, he sucks though since he's kinda slow.

Also, his Up-smash has been proven to be completely safe. Aside from the fact that it kills at like 65% fresh. Also he's pretty **** offstage since his D-air will hit Kirby out of anything if Kirby recovers from below.

Quick question, what's G&W's bucket brakeand does it stop his vertical movement, or just his horizontal movement? (I ask because I found a hyphen smash is usually the easiest way for me to kill G&W on most stages)

He can fastfall a N-air and Bucket Brake against vertical knockback. It makes him survive about 15-20% longer against vertical kill moves if he does it right.

 

[Falconv1.0]

^This. In other words-**** G&W get a cp or die.

 

[Commander_Beef]

I wish his worst matchup was the King. . .

 

[Falconv1.0]

I wish his worst matchup was the King. . .

...Why? DDD can win the match, OOOOR you could pick one of the many characters that beat him?