Kirby's Toy Box - Kirby Moveset/AT/Competitive Discussion

[Ansou]

i was playing around in training mode and saw that after an uptilt string you can jump up really fast and get a footstool which makes them fall into the ground (easier for some characters than others) and can be followed up by a dair or for some characters like fox or greninja you can use a stone.

I also played around a bit with trying setups for footstools before and noticed this, but the question is if it would work against an opponent who actively tries to escape the u-tilt string... The CPUs kinda just fall down towards you most of the time.

 

[Nickname87]

I also played around a bit with trying setups for footstools before and noticed this, but the question is if it would work against an opponent who actively tries to escape the u-tilt string... The CPUs kinda just fall down towards you most of the time.

ya thats the problem with training mode . i dont see why it wouldnt work for some of the fast fallers unless they try to jump too then you get foot stooled

 

[kirbyfan66]

ya thats the problem with training mode . i dont see why it wouldnt work for some of the fast fallers unless they try to jump too then you get foot stooled

Can you tech footstools? If not, then yeah, I don't see it wouldn't work against characters like Sheik or Fox.

 

[Ansou]

Can you tech footstools? If not, then yeah, I don't see it wouldn't work against characters like Sheik or Fox.

Footstools can't be teched. What I meant was if you would actually be able to get the footstool if they try to jump away from you. I'm not saying that it won't work, I have just not tested it enough to say for certain that it will work.

 

[Nickname87]

Footstools can't be teched. What I meant was if you would actually be able to get the footstool if they try to jump away from you. I'm not saying that it won't work, I have just not tested it enough to say for certain that it will work.

from what i found if they are like directly above you you should be able to get the footstool easily but if they are farther away you would more likely be the one getting footstooled

 

[Phan7om]

Any character can mash jump out of your utilt before you can get above them, especially if they see it coming. The trick is to mask your intentions with conditioning and stuff. aka - always punish them for jumping out of utilts and then when you think theyll switch it up footstool them. Same works for Rev. Uair.

 

[Project SonicSpeed]

Can someone please explain perfect pivoting's viability as kirby. I've seen izaw pp into u-tilt but that's about it. I'm curious as to what kirby can do with this new technique.

 

[Ansou]

Can someone please explain perfect pivoting's viability as kirby. I've seen izaw pp into u-tilt but that's about it. I'm curious as to what kirby can do with this new technique.

U-tilt is probably Kirby's best usage of Perfect Pivot. He can do that to easier keep juggling his opponents. Other uses would be extending his F-tilt range (good for jab locking?) or doing retreating jabs. I'm still trying to master Perfect Pivoting, so I have not yet tested it in a practical situation.

 

[Unknownkid]

You can probaby do Perfect Pivot to Bair for a kill option.

 

[Ansou]

You can probaby do Perfect Pivot to Bair for a kill option.

Indeed. It's almost the same as standard RAR B-air, though, but do you get more momentum when Perfect Pivoting into it?

 

[Nickname87]

How do you guys deal with the ness mu. i find it really hard to deal with all the pk fires and his arieals (not to menton his 2nd jump has armor to get out of juggles and combos)

 

[pnoid]

How do you guys deal with the ness mu. i find it really hard to deal with all the pk fires and his arieals (not to menton his 2nd jump has armor to get out of juggles and combos)

In my experience with Ness players, I can bait them often into doing a fair, and I can either get a bair punish, or even a uair punish.

I will run up to their Pk-fire range and shorthop. If they actually threw a PK-fire, I can punish it, if they don't I usually can respond to the action they take favorably. At this range rolling can be punished, and he can't short hop fair. Most of them dont think to RAR you.

EDIT: i think this is another MU where you want to stay grounded as much as possible (except maybe in pk-fire range)

 

[pnoid]

So I have a problem myself: I am terrible at netplay.

I seem to generally get worse by playing netplay. I start to prefer smashing over trying to actually get my up-tilt combos in.

Personally, I think this likely has to do with latency. I cannot predict where my enemy will end up after the next u-air or d-air fast enough to make a combo decision, so I just choose the option which covers the most ground: dsmash or fsmash.

Unfortunately, I am in a living situation where I cannot get a wired connection. My connections are smooth, but the time between me pressing a button and it actually happening seems long (but hard to measure). I'd guess 1/3rd of a second.

Here's a sample of my local play if anybody can offer some advice (also posted in the kirby video section)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkXw-bA7fq0

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

Guys, I was in training mode practicing my combos, and I found that if you u-tilt an opponent that is in front of you, at about 110-120% (I did this on Pikachu at 115%), if not right in the face but not too far away, u-tilt to upperc cutter is a true combo. The tip hits them. Thoughts?

EDIT: With 0% rage, I did it at like 105% against pika, btw

 

[Ansou]

Guys, I was in training mode practicing my combos, and I found that if you u-tilt an opponent that is in front of you, at about 110-120% (I did this on Pikachu at 115%), if not right in the face but not too far away, u-tilt to upperc cutter is a true combo. The tip hits them. Thoughts?

EDIT: With 0% rage, I did it at like 105% against pika, btw

Yeah, this is a legit kill combo. @ Aunt Jemima has talked about it before. Depending on percents I think that sweetspot U-tilt and U-air to Upper Cutter can also be true combos.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

Yeah, this is a legit kill combo. @ Aunt Jemima has talked about it before. Depending on percents I think that sweetspot U-tilt and U-air to Upper Cutter can also be true combos.

Wait, I found something else, please tell me if this is known.

You know how with b-throw - b-air it combos on some characters in certain percents? Well if you jump right after you can still get a guaranteed hit to higher percents. I did this to DK until 29%, where he usually can only be hit to like 10%. It really looks true, and It could make b-throw to b-air better.

I tried this out on a lot of characters, and some characters get like 10% more and others only get like 5%, while some it doesn't work on. DeDeDe can have a guaranteed followup with b-air until 32% instead of 20-something, and stuff like that. This mostly works on big characters, but on medium ones it can be used to get a sweetspot instead of a sour.

 

[Ansou]

Wait, I found something else, please tell me if this is known.

You know how with b-throw - b-air it combos on some characters in certain percents? Well if you jump right after you can still get a guaranteed hit to higher percents. I did this to DK until 29%, where he usually can only be hit to like 10%. It really looks true, and It could make b-throw to b-air better.

I tried this out on a lot of characters, and some characters get like 10% more and others only get like 5%, while some it doesn't work on. DeDeDe can have a guaranteed followup with b-air until 32% instead of 20-something, and stuff like that. This mostly works on big characters, but on medium ones it can be used to get a sweetspot instead of a sour.

I have kind of thought about doing something similar (but with F-air, but B-air is probably better) but I have not really tested it. It sounds pretty neat, but of course this makes even more information to memorize. I have not yet memorized which characters and at what percents B-throw -> B-air works... But do you just use a jump straight upwards at the IASA frames and then immediately use B-air?

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

I have kind of thought about doing something similar (but with F-air, but B-air is probably better) but I have not really tested it. It sounds pretty neat, but of course this makes even more information to memorize. I have not yet memorized which characters and at what percents B-throw -> B-air works... But do you just use a jump straight upwards at the IASA frames and then immediately use B-air?

Yes, right when the b-throw animation ends (since it has no lag/cooldown) just do another jump and b-air, I would make a video on YT but im on vacation so I can't.

 

[Ansou]

Yes, right when the b-throw animation ends (since it has no lag/cooldown) just do another jump and b-air, I would make a video on YT but im on vacation so I can't.

Alright, I'll try it later today on my 3DS.

 

[Ponytail]

So I couldn't find the customs thread so I guess I'll post this gem here.
http://i.imgur.com/Grmnmwm.gifv
I think between this, Jumping Inhale, and Upper Cutter, we'll have a recovery that rivals Villager.
I know this has been talked about but uhhh.... post it in the original post for people to see the insanity of Hammer Bash I guess?

 

[Ansou]

Here's the customs thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/official-standard-custom-project-ver-1.380104/
It's not stickied anymore so I guess it's hard to find. But yeah, Kirby's recovery is amazing.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Going to be updating this thread with frame data, videos, etc. so it's more useful. Copy Ability data and crouching data would be useful, too.

 

[Ansou]

Going to be updating this thread with frame data, videos, etc. so it's more useful. Copy Ability data and crouching data would be useful, too.

That sounds nice! I guess we have the crouch data, but it's somewhere on pastebin in a format that is not exactly optimal.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Perfect Because I'm still basically new to frame trap so I hope I can get more experience for that

 

[chaosmasterro]

Hey does anyone know the frame data on upper cutter?
To avoid further questions like mine, I think his frame data should be listed on the first page.

 

[Ansou]

Hey does anyone know the frame data on upper cutter?
To avoid further questions like mine, I think his frame data should be listed on the first page.

Yes! Kirby's frame data in a nice looking format would be wonderful! I thought about doing it myself, but I haven't gotten the time to do it.

EDIT: Never mind, most frame data is already in this thread (it's been long since I last read that OP). Although, T1MMY, you should definitely add in custom moves in your guide.

 

[Asdioh]

I don't think it's ever been confirmed, but in my testing I estimated Upper Cutter to come out on frame 6. It could be frame 5?! But I think it's 6.

 

[Togii]

Has it been tested to see if Jumping Inhale requires the same amount of inputs to mash out of when compared to Inhale? I feel like people mash out of Jumping Inhale faster, but I haven't tested anything yet.

 

[Agent Emerald]

Has it been tested to see if Jumping Inhale requires the same amount of inputs to mash out of when compared to Inhale? I feel like people mash out of Jumping Inhale faster, but I haven't tested anything yet.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same as regular inhale but instead it's the people you're facing remembering to mash out of grabs.

Has anyone ever noticed jab finisher's faintest usage as a kill move? I mean, it only really works on stages with small side blast lines, but it's there.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same as regular inhale but instead it's the people you're facing remembering to mash out of grabs.

Has anyone ever noticed jab finisher's faintest usage as a kill move? I mean, it only really works on stages with small side blast lines, but it's there.

Yea on edges, but it's somewhat useful because, well.... It's a fast jab....that multi hits and deals good damageso yea

 

[Asdioh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9V-d6EOFXQ speaking of jabs, this could be useful for kirby! i'm sure it combos into upper cutter, maybe certain special moves?

 

[Togii]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9V-d6EOFXQ speaking of jabs, this could be useful for kirby! i'm sure it combos into upper cutter, maybe certain special moves?

Looks very, very situational. Doesn't look like something you would try to set up, but it is good to know if you find yourself in that situation.

Now that I think about it a little, this could work after a regular ledge getup on opponents who are anticipating a ledge attack or an aerial from ledge. Nice way to rack up a decent amount of damage if you can read them correctly.

 

[KeeganKTK]

Nice! It's funny why I'm here because I know literally everything posted here (Kirby is mah homie), but this is great for people that don't! :D

 

[t!MmY]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9V-d6EOFXQ speaking of jabs, this could be useful for kirby!

Recently I used this technique to cancel my Vulcan Jab against a Shielding opponent and dropped to the ledge to avoid a punish. After watching the video I can see some good use for repeating this situation again. I'll look at what Kirby has out of Aerial Attacks or Jumps.

Here's the simple set-up I used:
When edge-guarding Roll behind an opponent who is either standing at the ledge or getting up into a standing position, then hold Attack (Jab). If they Spot Dodge they get caught by the Jab, and if they Shield you can move into a Fall-Cancel.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

You know what they should add as an Easter egg?
Ok if it's 8 player smash and one team has all Kirby players and they use the colors
Pink, yellow, red, green every once in a while your victory theme should be a victory dance just like from
Kirby and the Amazing mirror :D
I would so love for them to do that

 

[Lord_Espurr]

As a Wii Fit main I probably shouldn't be sharing this but... There is a tech that WFT and Kirby can both do that lets them approach while crouching. I can't post links yet but if you look up Run Turn Around Cancel you should find a video that explains how to do a RTAC well. ( just to be clear it's not a perfect pivot)
Most characters only have one or two options that let them retain momentum, but ALL of Kirby's grounded moves excluding fsmash and grab (shield grab works) let him slide. This means his crouch too. I've found that sliding dtilt--> trip --> fsmash was easy to do and he can duck under attacks while crouch sliding too. I haven't tried this for that long so maybe you guys can find something else.
I upload a video of me doing this to the wii u. Look for a replay of Kirby versus a level one Gannon with the title RTAC.

 

[Nickname87]

As a Wii Fit main I probably shouldn't be sharing this but... There is a tech that WFT and Kirby can both do that lets them approach while crouching. I can't post links yet but if you look up Run Turn Around Cancel you should find a video that explains how to do a RTAC well. ( just to be clear it's not a perfect pivot)
Most characters only have one or two options that let them retain momentum, but ALL of Kirby's grounded moves excluding fsmash and grab (shield grab works) let him slide. This means his crouch too. I've found that sliding dtilt--> trip --> fsmash was easy to do and he can duck under attacks while crouch sliding too. I haven't tried this for that long so maybe you guys can find something else.
I upload a video of me doing this to the wii u. Look for a replay of Kirby versus a level one Gannon with the title RTAC.

ya I have wii fit as an alt and saw this a while ago I thought it was called like ledge turn around something but ya I havent seen many kirbys or wii fits use it but to me it seems extremely usefull and viable

 

[Lord_Espurr]

Actually every charecter can use the RTAC. I was just referring to using WFT and Kirby's low crouch to approach with it. (Jigglypuff has a low crouch too but she doesn't go far enough for any real use)

 

[Envoy_]

Hey guys, just wanted to drop by and let you guys know that if you absorb Sheik, then you can do some cool tech with the needles. One tech in particular is called needle fidgeting.

Here's the thread first discussing Needle Fidgeting (I uploaded gfycat's of Kirby doing it in there): http://smashboards.com/threads/smash-4-sheik-tech-needle-fidgeting.398653/#post-19227631

And here's a thread talking about how to instant needle cancel (Basically a grounded Needle Fidget): http://smashboards.com/threads/new-sheik-tech-instant-needle-cancels.402777/

I hope this ends up being useful for you guys as it did for us!

 

[Nickname87]

Heyyyy I got bored so i wrote an equation for when you must tech kirby's f tilt or else you can start a jab lock X is for the characters weight based on this chart http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Weight . So the equation is 3/8X+27 . I feel like jab locking is really good for kirby in this game