Kirby's Toy Box - Kirby Moveset/AT/Competitive Discussion

[Aunt Jemima]

Hyper Rollout works with Kirby.

Also, Shulk's boosted pivot grab works with Kirby, as found by Asdioh.

EDIT:

Kirby can cancel all landing lag while using Shulk's Monado.

http://smashboards.com/threads/new-shulk-advanced-technique-aerial-landing-lag-cancel.371699/

 

[Phan7om]

Nice that just moved up Kirby's rollout viability, even if its slight. And Shulk's from #1 to... #1x100

 

[warriorman222]

Here is Custom Move Set 3, i know none of the damage values:

Jumping Inhale: You leap forward and reach slightly over1/2 of FD before reaching your previous height. when you spit out a star, no damage will be done regardless of wight but the victim in the star still takes damage. No vaccum. Can be used for recovery, although you have to be more careful as you have to touch the enemy to susck them in now.


Giant Hammer:About twice the startup, and about twice the damage. Still chargeable, still does recoil, and gain super armor as soon as you can start walking around. Bad amount of endlag, if you whiff it, good luck.

Upper Cutter: Goes higher. Also more damage on up cut. Becomes helpless immediately upon reaching the top: no endlag just staying there, no downward swing. This is the only practical way to become helpless as Kirby in the series.

Meteor Stone: More damage, more knockback, Meteor Smash. Buuuut. you wait about 3-4 times as long before you can cancel it, meaning you need to go up high and have enough jumps left to avoid SDing.


I personally use 3333(lol). Jumping Inhale is recovery, Giant Hammer is Armor and K.Os below 50%. Upper Cutter is drastically better recovery, and Meteor Stone is smashing them down the abyss after one air jump and then using the rest to get back up.

 

[Asdioh]

So I'm pretty sure there's no air speed list yet. I don't know how you would test it exactly, but to get a ballpark idea, I went to Reset Bomb Forest and tried running from the top platform and just holding left, then seeing where people landed. I mostly tested characters of similar low weight to Kirby, and preferably ones that are floaty like him. This is what it looks like when they land:

As everybody should know, Jigglypuff has the fastest airspeed (I think) and is the slowest faller, so of course she goes way out (to the corner blast zone)
I was surprised to find that Diddy's airspeed actually kinda sucks, at least horizontally. He makes up for it though by being able to use Monkey Flip and B-reverse popguns to change his momentum drastically, giving him great mixups that make it hard to chase in the air. Anyway as you can see, Yoshi in particular seems like the "escapiest" character for Kirby, because his airspeed is great, and if you look here http://smashboards.com/threads/smash-4-running-walking-speed-rankings.371564/ you see that Yoshi has the ~11th fastest run in the game, while Kirby is down at ~30.
Wario didn't go as far as I thought, maybe he's slower horizontally/falls faster than he did in Brawl?

If there's a better stage for this lemme know, I looked for an easy high platform, it's too bad the bottom part isn't all flat so it could be more consistent, but this is good enough to give a general idea.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Actually, somebody already compiled a list if air speeds. Air Speed can be tested by using the Tanooki Leaf.

 

[warriorman222]

Custom Set 3 Damage list being made.
Jumping Inhale: 8% If absorbed. 0% to anyone hit by star, 5% to Bowser spit out by star, 6% to Jiggly. Weight difference??? Or just improper destaling?

Giant Hammer: 22%-40% Grounded, 20%-32 in air. Air tested uncharged by jumping really high, air tested full-charged by jumping while it was fully charged.

Upper Cutter: 10%. Still goes higher like i said, Nintendo's treating helplessness instead of suicide like a bad thing. Thanks for extra damage and height!

Meteor Stone: 10%, 12% if fallen less(why?). I just jumped high up and stoned the sandbag. Yes, i got it high

I hope this helps.

 

[Asdioh]

Actually, somebody already compiled a list if air speeds. Air Speed can be tested by using the Tanooki Leaf.

Okay... where is it? I don't see it in the smash academy where the thread I linked is.

 

[Unknownkid]

Giant Hammer: 22%-40% Grounded, 20%-??? in air. Someone tell me how the hell i test it maxed in the air because fall speed.

Simple! Have the CPU jump in Training mode. I got 32% with max charge in the air. How did you get the uncharged hammer in the air? Nevermind... I figure it out. I found uncharged Giant Hammer harder than Max Charged. In fact, Max Charged Swing appear to be same speed with Normal Hammer Flip.

 

[warriorman222]

Simple! Have the CPU jump in Training mode. I got 32% with max charge in the air. How did you get the uncharged hammer in the air? Nevermind... I figure it out. I found uncharged Giant Hammer harder than Max Charged. In fact, Max Charged Swing appear to be same speed with Normal Hammer Flip.

I'm talking about when Kirby is in the air, not you. an since special brawl doesn't exist Light mode is impossible.

 

[Unknownkid]

I'm talking about when Kirby is in the air, not you. an since special brawl doesn't exist Light mode is impossible.

... I'm sorry but what?

It took me a few minutes to figure out what you mean. But I believe I got it. So...
Go to Training/Practice Mode in Single Player Mode.
Have the CPU fighter on "Jump".
Charged the Hammer then Jump (Yes, you can Jump with charged Hammer) and release the B Button. Boom! 32 damage percent.

 

[warriorman222]

... I'm sorry but what?

It took me a few minutes to figure out what you mean. But I believe I got it. So...
Go to Training/Practice Mode in Single Player Mode.
Have the CPU fighter on "Jump".
Charged the Hammer then Jump (Yes, you can Jump with charged Hammer) and release the B Button. Boom! 32 damage percent.

I feel stupid now. Also CPUs don't take extra or less damage from almost all move whether or not they're in the air except for some certain Anti-Air, orif they have Air Defender/Pinata, which changes damage taken in air to 75%/125%.

 

[Asdioh]

Okay... where is it? I don't see it in the smash academy where the thread I linked is.

@ Aunt Jemima I still don't know D:

 

[FreeGamer]

Anything new to Kirby in the 1.0.3 patch?

 

[Unknownkid]

No. I think was not a character patch.

 

[FreeGamer]

I keep hearing it was a balance patch. Oh well, maybe some day they'll fix his air speed and his Specials.

 

[GrnFzzTgr]

We can keep dreaming, but I don't think that'll happen.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

@ Aunt Jemima I still don't know D:

Ooh, sorry!

http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2inca4/air_speed_comparison_of_all_characters/

Kirby's air speed sucks. Jesus ****ing christ.

 

[Unknownkid]

....Why does Sakurai hate Kirby? Why was Kirby nerf hard in the invitational but ZSS was fine?
I'm just kidding but is indeed sad.

 

[Asdioh]

ughghghhghh kadfljfadsj

That, plus his below-average runspeed, is in a nutshell is why Kirby is a not-good character. His whole shtick is getting in your face with combos. He can't chase people in any way to keep up his pressure though, because almost every (good) character can jump/fall away and land on the ground before he can reach them. They then re-enter the "neutral game" (a term I've been hearing smashers use a lot in recent years, which I never used to hear in early Brawl) and Kirby has to find a way to get in their defenses again.

Literally if they just buffed his airspeed he would be a good character, despite all his other flaws, such as his lack of priority on moves. Is it my imagination or does Fsmash lose to a ton of moves? :/
I also had a Ness Nair the tip of my Upair from above, it made no sense what the heck
But at least Kirby's spotdodge seems very good..? That's one thing I've felt for a while. I dunno if it's just his though, or if other characters are like that too.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I was tipped off to this by someone on Reddit and went to Training mode to confirm.

As Kirby, copy Robin and charge Thunder up to Arcthunder. (Red sparks around his hand.) Use up all of your jumps and finish charging it to Thoron while still in the air. You now have all of your jumps back.

This also works with Robin himself, although he obviously only has the one midair jump to work with.

 

[Asdioh]

That's interesting, thanks for that.
Also something to note about Arcthunder is that it's the longest lasting Robin Copy spell. You know how you get limited uses on those, and then you lose your power? If you lose your power during Arcthunder, the whole ability does not complete. You know the zappy X part that your opponent gets stuck in? When you lose your hat, that part disappears as well, so I recommend not using Arcthunder when you're about to lose your power, go for the full charge (Thoron) instead.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Further experimentation reveals that it's not strictly necessary to charge Arcthunder first, it just makes it faster since it's the level directly below Thoron. If you have enough room to work with, you can do a full Thunder > Thoron charge and it works just the same.

It also works with all 3 versions of the move for Robin, but Kirby always gets the standard one when he copies it so that's not as relevant here.

 

[Asdioh]

Does anyone know frame data for spotdodges? Kirby seems to have a really good spotdodge, but I don't know exactly how good it is framewise, or how good/bad other characters' spotdodges are.

 

[Mr.CreamCakes]

ughghghhghh kadfljfadsj

That, plus his below-average runspeed, is in a nutshell is why Kirby is a not-good character. His whole shtick is getting in your face with combos. He can't chase people in any way to keep up his pressure though, because almost every (good) character can jump/fall away and land on the ground before he can reach them. They then re-enter the "neutral game" (a term I've been hearing smashers use a lot in recent years, which I never used to hear in early Brawl) and Kirby has to find a way to get in their defenses again.

Literally if they just buffed his airspeed he would be a good character, despite all his other flaws, such as his lack of priority on moves. Is it my imagination or does Fsmash lose to a ton of moves? :/
I also had a Ness Nair the tip of my Upair from above, it made no sense what the heck
But at least Kirby's spotdodge seems very good..? That's one thing I've felt for a while. I dunno if it's just his though, or if other characters are like that too.

his speed was buffed though. Throughout the series hes been a more defensive character. Usually smashers don't run away or jump away, and even if they do then a smart player would read the landing or punish them. Honestly I don't see the lack of priority, nair, bair, usmash have pretty good priority. Honestly I see Kirby as a midtier character. If he would a speed buff in a patch, then he would possibly be hightier but I see him as a midtier for now

honestly some combos he could do can do 40%.
nair>utilt>Fsmash
utilt>utilt>Utilt(some characters)>uair>uair>nair
dair>grab>fthrow>fastfall>fair
dair>utilt>utilt>utilt(some characters)>uair>uair>nair
dair>utilt>utilt>Usmash (not sure about this one)

 

[Ansou]

Useful thread for quickly looking up information! I know it's not finished, but it will be nice once it's done. ^.^

Some notes on the custom moves:

Along with that, when the move is used in the air, Kirby will swing the hammer around two times, similar to how the move worked in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. The first hit, while being considerably weak, has low enough knockback to easily go into the second hit.

The standard Hammer also hits twice in the air, although Hammer Bash seems to be better at actually landing both hits with.

The move also has faster start-up and end lag compared to the default stone, although it inflicts less damage than the default

As said in the move's description, this actually has longer start-up than the standard Stone. Don't know about ending lag though.

You may already know all of this and just have to much work to update this post, but I just thought that I should remind you since this is a sticky thread that people will read.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Useful thread for quickly looking up information! I know it's not finished, but it will be nice once it's done. ^.^

Some notes on the custom moves:


The standard Hammer also hits twice in the air, although Hammer Bash seems to be better at actually landing both hits with.

​

As said in the move's description, this actually has longer start-up than the standard Stone. Don't know about ending lag though.

You may already know all of this and just have to much work to update this post, but I just thought that I should remind you since this is a sticky thread that people will read.

Yeah, I gotta update all this. I made this thread before I got the game, haha.

 

[Ansou]

Yeah, I gotta update all this. I made this thread before I got the game, haha.

Looking forward to the full post with all of the information!

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Changelog:

- Fixed and updated Custom Moves - Set 2!

- Added in Custom Moves - Set 3!

- Added in Walking, Running, and Air Speed!

- Fixed some grammatical mistakes!

EDIT: Added some pictures to his special sets, haha.

 

[TheKingOfThings]

Kirby VS ness not sure if ya'l knew this yet but you can inhale him when he uses his Up B to get back on stage. Good ledge guarding technique or otherwise safe move when he tries to get a kill on stage.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Kirby VS ness not sure if ya'l knew this yet but you can inhale him when he uses his Up B to get back on stage. Good ledge guarding technique or otherwise safe move when he tries to get a kill on stage.

Do you mean while he's controlling the PK tether, or when he blasts himself?

 

[GrnFzzTgr]

He likely means after blasting himself, During the start up of the rocketing part of the move Ness has super armor, and when he launched the bolt, it's able to penetrate bodies for a couple of seconds after using the move, allowing him it push it into himself and kill somebody trying to gimp him. After those points the move can be shielded, and I guess inhaled too.

 

[TheKingOfThings]

Do you mean while he's controlling the PK tether, or when he blasts himself?

Yup during the part just after he blasts himself with it, or probably from there to the end of the attack!

 

[The Pink Marshmallow]

Upper Cutter: It's so much better than final cutter, It goes so high vertically and also sweetspots the edge. The only recovery of his that sweetspots the edge. Its a great out-of-shield option and tbh the wave wasn't that good anyways. It can also kill around 120% with the tip of it.

Hammer Bash: It has so much more utility since its fast and always hits midair if you get the first hit off. It's still really strong. It's good for reads and punishes. It'll be easy for brawl Kirby mains to adapt since it's pretty similar.

Jumping Inhale: Its better than the default since it solves the old problems the one default one had. Its also great for approaches and also the range it goes is great. In past games characters could just dair after you eat them but now after you eat them, they would miss. Its also useful for recovering something.

Ice Breath: Its good for characters with horrible neutral specials. It can do decent damage and has ok range. Its great for edge games and can read attacks well.

 

[lightdasher]

Hi, I've been writing this up, wasn't sure where to put it, but it's basically a list of moves and grabs Kirby can duck under (I guess it can apply to other characters who get really small crouching too), and certain moves Kirby can inhale safely, hope you find it useful.

http://pastebin.com/twJiKLVL
It's not finished yet might I add

 

[Unknownkid]

Awesome! Thank you for your contribution!

 

[lightdasher]

I updated it adding in some more characters and updating some others.

And I'm really surprised Kirby can duck under KO punch

 

[Asdioh]

Thanks for the list.
It's a shame Kirby has a lot of crap to remember... aside from the usual memorization of what combos work on what characters, which every character has to learn, Kirby also has to learn which characters bthrow->bair work on (it's about half the cast but I always forget who) as well as what moves you can crouch under, and which moves Inhale beats/how to use Copy abilities properly etc.
He's never been a highly technical character but he's by no means easy ;_;7

 

[lightdasher]

Thanks for the list.
It's a shame Kirby has a lot of crap to remember...

Kinda why I wrote the list, and I figured other people would find it useful as well.

I also made this and posted it somewhere, merely my opinions of course.

 

[Uffe]

I don't know about the WIi U version, but using Kirby's down air, I was able to grab soon after. Test that someone, because it works for me.

 

[GrnFzzTgr]

Yeah, this is already known.