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Kirby's Brawl Moveset info !

Wiwiweb

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I have Brawl. Since Kirby is my main and the character I will play the most, I thought about making this thread so you could know exactly how Kirby is in Brawl.


I- Quick Change list
II - Full moveset
III - Kirby hats
IV - Kirby techniques and combos
V - Taunts and colors


I - Quick Change list :
This list every attack that was changed, and how. Green is buffed, red is nerfed, blue is new.

Hold A (Faster, easier to combo)
Dash A (Yoyo attack, much better than the fireball)
Up-Tilt (A bit faster, a bit more range)
Down-Tilt (Less useful without Crouch Cancel)
Neutral-Air (More range, more knockback)
Up-Air (Less knockback but more range. Not a killing move anymore, but a good priority move.)
Front-Air (Easier to combo)
Back-Air (More vertical knockback, but not much)
Up-Smash (More diagonal knockback, but not much)
Down-Smash (A little bit less knockback, less range, less useful without Crouch Cancel)
Forward-Smash (More horizontal knockback, but not much)

Down-Throw (More damage, but less comboable, because of Brawl floaty physics.)
Forward-Throw (Can't be escaped anymore)
Back-Throw (Less knockback, can't Kirbycide. Also unescapable.)

Up-B (Way faster than before)
Down-B (A little faster, and a bit more range on landing. More useful than Melee)
Side-B (A little bit more damage, but still laggy)
Aerial Side-B (Spinning Hammer, different than before. Much more useful. A good killing move.)



II - Full Moveset :

Before beginning, know that all of the kill percentages were done on a idle Mario standing in the middle of Final Destination.

Regular A attacks

A (Jab) : 2%
Just the regular Jab. I didn't see much differences. However, with the new "A combo" system, you just have to let A pushed and Kirby will do Jabs really fast. Pretty useful to block projectiles.

A,A (Left Jab) : 3%
Not much to say. No apparent changes. If you hold A and an enemy get hit by one of your Jabs, Kirby will then do a Left Jab and then go to the Vulcan Jab.

Hold A (Vulcan Jab) : 1% per hit, 14-15% for the whole "hold A" combo.
This move seems to be a little bit improved. The Vulcan Jabs are faster, and push enemies away slower. If you hold the A button, you can do up to 15% (Jab, Left Jab, then Vulcan Jab). It's pretty useful to rack up damage, but may be hard to land. Use if the opponent is too close.

Dash A (Yoyo) : 2% first 5 hits, 4% last hit. 14% total.
Finally ! We got rid of that useless fireball ! The new dash A, which comes from Yoyo Kirby, is much better. First, it comes fast. second, it does a decent amount of damage. Then, it has enough knockback so your opponent won't punish you while you recover from the small ending lag this attack has, but not enough to kill. The last hit also sends your opponents in the air, where you can use any Aerial attack to follow your Dash A.


Tilt attacks

Up Tilt (Back Kick) : 7%
I think it comes out faster and has a bit more range. Can be used to juggle with fast fallers, and then can be linked to a back aerial.

Down Tilt (Squish Kick) : 5%
No changes from Melee. However, the attack is less useful, because Crouch Canceling is not as much effective as before. Actually, it doesn't really do anything now, so you could use this attack to prevent opponents from coming near you, but the side tilt does better. It has one advantage over the Side Tilt : It can sometimes make opponents trip.

Side Tilt (Spinning Kick) : 8%
It comes fast, does decent damage and has a good range. Use it to push enemies coming towards you.


Smash attacks

Up Smash (Flip Kick) : 15%, 12% with the tip of the feet. Kills at 101%.
Unlike Melee, this move sends towards a diagonal angle, which makes it less useful. Still, it's one of Kirby's killing move, with only 101% when using the entire feet.

Down Smash (Propeller Kick) : 14%. Kills at 113%.
Like Down Tilt, this move is much less useful with the disappearance of Crouch Cancelling. Also, it seems to do less range than before If you just hit with the tip of the foots, it will do less damage and less knockback. Don't use it as a killing move, but rather as a good way to hit everything around you. Also a good edgeguard.

Side Smash (Smash Kick) : 15%. Kills at 97% !
This move has been buffed a little. It has more horizontal knockback and is the most damaging A move. It also has a Good range, like Side Tilt. It also comes out faster, but is still a bit slow. A good killing move if you can place it.


Aerial attacks

Neutral Air (Twinkle Star) : 12%
Definitely buffed. More damage, more range, more knockback ! The knockback is not enough to kill, but is good to get your opponents away from you. And this time, the attack goes really far, like twice the size of Kirby (It does a whirlwind around him).

Up Air (Floating Flip Kick) : 10%. Kills at 179%.
This move has a bit more range, but far less knockback. Even if it sends enemies far, it's not that good as a killing move. Unless you're near the top of the screen or in the middle of the stage, Back Air is better as a killing move. However, Up Air is fast and has a good priority. It's good to block enemies who are going to attack you with a Down Air. You can then try a Back Air.

Down Air (Screw Driver Kick) : 2% per hit, 12-14% total.
Not changed from Melee. Although it can be used to rack up damage, it's best use is as a Meteor Smash ! Yes, Kirby's Meteor is still here :p

Front Air (Spiral Kick) : 4% first kick, 3 % second kick, 5% last kick. 12% total.
The only difference I found from Melee is that the first two kicks have less knockback. but it's an advantage, since now it's much easier to hit with all three kicks if you hit the first one. It sends far, but not enough to kill.

Back Air (Drop Flip Kick) : 12%. Kills at 129%.
Even if the killing percentage seems high, you must remember that I did that on a Mario standing in the middle of Final Destination. This attack's knockback is good, it's still Kirby's primary aerial killing move. I think the knockback is a little more vertical also.


Grab and Throws

Slap : 1% per hit, 3% per second.
The slap comes much faster than before. You can do a total of three before a button-mashing opponent frees and 5-6 on a idle opponent. However, the best use is to do two, then to use a throw. Don't forget it, because it's a free 2% for each throw.

Up Throw (Ninja Drop) : 10%. Kills at 167%.
The Up Throw did not change. However, I think it will be less used as a damage maker because of the Down Throw buff. It can still be used for combos and as an easy way to kill at HIGH percents.

Down Throw (Victory Dance) : 12%. Kills at 296%.
More damage for the Down Throw ! It's now more powerful than the Up Throw, so if you grabbed, and just want to get the max damage out of it, use a Down Throw. Not even you'll do 2% more, but you'll be in an easy spot to do aerials. In Melee, you could use many Up Tilts after a Down Throw on a fast faller at low percentages, however, Brawl is more floaty, so the max Up Tilts you can do is 1-2. Maybe more if the opponent is surprised. I suggest doing one Up Tilt, and then try an Up air, or better, a Back Air.

Forward throw (Power Bomb) : 8%. Kills at 192%.
It can be used to move an opponent in a direction, like over the edge. If you just want damage or knockback, it's not the best move. It cannot be escaped anymore.

Back Throw (Brain Buster) : 8%. Kills at 320%.
Just like Forward Throw, but with half knockback. If you want to throw an opponent far from the stage, you should try to do the Forward Throw instead. Also, you cannot Kirbycide anymore with this throw, because it will keep Kirby on the stage. On a bright side, it can't be escaped anymore.


Special Moves

B (Swallow) : 6% swallow, 10% spit.
I think its range and speed got a bit buffed, but it's hard to notice. A fun fact is, characters really get pulled towards Kirby before being swallowed.
In Brawl, you can swallow a bunch of things. Characters (duh), but also items (you must be be closer than when swallowing a character, and you can't swallow a Smash Ball), Waddle Dees/Doos (not Gordos) and some SSE enemies. However, if you swallow anything but a character, Kirby will immediately swallow it, without giving a power. You can't even spit it, so you're just destroying the item/NPC. You should just use that item instead of destroying it. However, it can be used to protect yourself against thrown items and Waddle Dees/Doos., but you could just shield or catch the item.
I'll do an entire section on Kirby's hats later. :) However I can already tell you that Sonic's hat is awesome.

Up B (Final Cutter) : 8% going up, 2% at the top, 5% going down, 6% shockwave. 15-20% total.
Buffed ! This move comes really faster now, maybe like, twice as fast ! It also have more damage, but you rarely hit with the whole combo, so it's more 15% than 20%. Maybe it could be really used as a small 6% projectile now ? As a recovery move, it's easier to sweetspot the ledge.

Down B (Stone) : 18%. Kills at 101%.
Even if this move is somewhat faster and has a small area of effect on landing, it's still hard to use it effectively. But some times, you'll be happy to have the Stone. The moments you can use the Stone are, for example, when somebody is going to use an u-air on you, generally after comboing you.
An interesting find : Some Final Smashes can be escaped using the Stone ! Basically, all projectile moves can be avoided (Super sonic, Captain Falcon, Mario, Ganondorf...), although you will still take some damage from projectiles during a long time (Triple Attack, Zero Laser). BUT, you cannot avoid aimed Final Smashes, that is, Great Aether, Triforce Slash, and Critical Hit (Marth, Ike, Link).
By the way, computers are still dumb enough to wait for your stone to crush their skulls.


Side B (Hammer) : 23%. Kills at 83%.
It's a bit faster and has a bit more knockback. Even if it has the lowest killing percentage, it's still slow enough to be difficult to use in a serious match. I wouldn't count on it.

Aerial Side B (Spinning Hammer) : 17% first hit, kills at 177%. 15% second hit kills at 99%. 13% with the back.
Now this is an interesting new move ! Instead of swinging his hammer all around him, Kirby now swings it twice in front of him. So yes, the hitbox is much smaller and it has a bit lagg BUT, it has more uses :
What is interesting is the fact that the two hits are really not the same. the first one does good damage but sends towards a diagonal angle, which is not really good. The second hit is a bit less powerful (2% less) but sends towards a vertical angle ! Just compare the killing percentages ! However the trick is, unless your opponent is Giga Bowser, you're not going to hit with both hits. So for damage, hit with the first one, but to kill, start the attack earlier and hit with the second hit. It's hard.
You can easily use the aerial hammer from the ground. Two ways : Shot Hop > Aerial Hammer only makes the first hit, at ground level. Full Jump > Aerial hammer make both hits, and the second is at ground level.
Also, note that you can also hit people behind you, but it does less damage and knockback and has a small hitbox.


Final Smash : Cook Kirby
Damage : 24% while cooking, 10% when getting out of the pot. 34% total. Kills at 108%.
Kirby's Final Smash is a good one ! How does he transforms baseball bats and hammers into food ? You don't have time to ponder such questions, as Kirby just grabbed a Smash Ball. He then proceeds to put every enemy and item in his surroundings into a pot cooks them for 3-4 seconds, and voilà, enemies are thrown at a diagonal angle really fast and cooked items fall down.
Based from my experiences, the pot gives 2 items for each characters swallowed and 1 item for each item swallowed. The items are often food Maxim-Tomatoes or Hearts but it can actually be anything but a Smash Ball, you can even have an Assist Trophy. However, it can only spit items that are turned on, and if the only item is the Smash Ball, it will not produce anything. :ohwell:
There is a really bad point about this Final Smash : it can be easily avoided. If an opponent does a dodge (aerial or not) at the moment Kirby clings his frying pans, he will not get caught in the pot. It's pretty easy to do that. If you want to be sure to get them, knock them a little and use the Final Smash, just don't leave them standing, and waiting for you to use your move.
The best way to use this Final Smash would be to fly really high, then use it, because you can use it in the air. Any enemy caught would then be thrown directly off screen. However, any intelligent player will know what you are doing, and while you fly high, they can hide at the sides of the stage and not be reached by your attack, or they can prepare themselves to dodge your Final Smash ! So act quickly, or just cook them for damage.
Also, what happens when you use the Final Smash with a hat on ? The hat will disappear for the animation, but will still be here at the end. Strangely, some hats stay during the Final Smash. Hilarious with Snake ! I'll try to put a screen.



III - Kirby hats :

Coming soon.
8/39 hats done.



IV - Kirby techniques and combos :

Kirbycides :
First, Kirbycide is still in ! The best way to use it is still to hang on an edge, wait for the opponent to come, then tap down, jump, and Swallow. If the opponent frees, he will still go down (I still have to check if he goes down faster or slower than in Melee).
However, there are three bad news about Kirbycides :
First, Kirbyciding kills the opponent at the exact same moment you die. If you are both on your last stock, you will get to Sudden Death.
Second, Suicide Cancel is gone, because of this. I went to training mode, Kirbycided a Bowser in 1/4 mode, and we got killed exactly at the same time. No way to escape your Kirbycides.
Third, Kirbycides with throws are gone, all three of them. Throws will make Kirby stay on a stage now.
:urg:

Combos :

Down Throw -> Up Tilt -> Back Air/Up Air
Dash A -> Back Air/Aerial Hammer

More ideas ?



V - Kirby's taunts and colors :

Taunts :
Up taunt : Kirby makes a small dance then points upwards, and a star comes from his hand. It's a long taunt.
Down taunt : Kirby spins around himself and then stops, pointing to the left, while saying "Nyooh". Much like his Melee victory pose.
Side taunt : Old Melee Taunt. Hiiiii ! The voice is different than before, and less annoying.

More to come !





What I have still have to check :

More search on Kirbycides (jumps and moving direction when freed/spit)
Rainbowcide
Kirby hats
Kirby colors

Feel free to ask me something to check :)
 

Galvanic

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Find out what the point of Olimar Kirby is. I mean, Olimar's standard B is to pluck up Pikmin. Then all his other attacks would make use of them. What, then, would Olimar Kirby do?
 

Wiwiweb

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I played Brawl ! Awesome !

But I only played it for one hour so I can't tell you much. I saw however, that swallowing a Waddle Dee is possible, but doesn't give you any power (like in the Kirby games). I haven't tried on Waddle Doos.

I had a hard time killing with Kirby, it seemed like his moves did not do as much knockback as before. But actually, everyone had a hard time killing. I'm just too used to Melee. No kills were made under 100%.

Kirby's Final Smash is really good. I used it 3 times, it never failed (i had only one opponent : my brother). However, once, I did it when he was dead (I wanted to "save" him from his death, but too late), and the pot only swallowed 1 item. It just did 1 Food. It seems that the more opponent/items you swallow, the more items you get.

Kirby's Aerial Hammer is pretty good against Master Hand. Otherwise, it seems to have a too little hitbox and too much lagg to be effective.

Also, every taunt make him lose his power. Sorry, but you cant taunt while holding a hat ^^

I unlocked Ness using Dedede ^^
 

retro gamer 6

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well we knew that kirby isn't a powerhouse, but i know he's been buffed. i got a few questions: could you give more detail about his kirbycides (i'm glad they're back) and if people can escape from his back and forward throw? also does he lose all his jumps after he uses his up, back, forward throws, and after using his final cutter. and one more thing, when you use his break spin (dashing attack), do you stun enemies? and can you immediately grab your opponents after this move (since the move seems to have very little lag). i know its a lot, but i want to know. thanx. i hope to recieve some good answers (and i hope they are all beneficial to kirby). kirby rules!!!!
 

Lord Viper

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So all of his taunt's lose his copying powers, oh well. I hear romers of his up air got weaker, is that true?
 

Wiwiweb

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When I said "Kirbycide" in the beginning, it just meant "I have to check if Kirbycides are still in". I haven't checked yet, because I only played a few hours, spent just enjoying the game.

However I can answer one question : No, his back and forward throws are not breakable anymore :)

Also, I got an Olimar hat. Kirby pluck a Pikmin out of the ground, then immediately throw it. He can pick all 5 Pikmin types. It's not really that great because, you have to be on the ground, you cannot transport your Pikmins, they do not latch on the opponent, they die as soon as they hit the ground, they do not go really far (excepted white) and they do 3-4% damage. The only good thing is that it's easily spammable. Like, really easy.

I had made screenshots, and put them on an SD card, but these images are .bin type, and I cannot read them :ohwell: It seems transferring images to an SD card is only used to put them on another Brawl save. Even the photo channel couldn't read the images.

I unlocked Marth and Luigi. :)


I'll try to test Kirby's moveset tomorrow.
 

Sandwich

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Just curious, but if someone uses his/her/it's FS, if Kirby is in Stone mode or whatever, does he still get caught up in the FS, because I'm guessing you don't take damage with regular attacks.
 

Wiwiweb

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Well, you know, I used Stone like... twice ?

But it's interesting, I'll have to try :)
 

freetyme

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It's a shame the stone is still laggy--but hey I'm glad Kirby is buffed. I've loved Kirby since the original, and kirby cartridges occupied almost as much time in my gameboy cartridge slot as pokemon did.

Can't wait to see the results.
 

WarMachine

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Cool, really psyched to see this when it's finished.

It's just too bad that so many awesome characters got added and I don't know how much I'll be playing kirby anymore :(
 

Izmo

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I've had the game since Sunday, so I can answer some questions. I've played a ton of Kirby. I was always sad he wasn't better in Melee, and still used him as a side character as much as I could, so I'm glad to see how well he's holding up so far in Brawl. I haven't ... really slept much to be honest >.< So I should be able to answer these questions.

well we knew that kirby isn't a powerhouse, but i know he's been buffed. i got a few questions: could you give more detail about his kirbycides (i'm glad they're back)
You can still Swallowcide, but you can't use back or forward throw as a Kirbycide anymore. You stop on the edge. I haven't tried Rainbow Road's yet ... actually, I'll go try that now :D

...

Nope :( I just tried over and over on the main part of the boat, and then reset the match and tried from the top platform on the boat. :(

and if people can escape from his back and forward throw? also does he lose all his jumps after he uses his up, back, forward throws, and after using his final cutter.
You can jump after his Up and Forward throws, but not his Back throw. He just lands w/ them and stays on the ground. His Final Cutter, he just lands on the ground as well, but I thought it was always like that. If I misunderstood you, please feel free to correct me :D

and one more thing, when you use his break spin (dashing attack), do you stun enemies? and can you immediately grab your opponents after this move (since the move seems to have very little lag).
Hmm, good question ^^; Let me go check ...

You can follow up very well with it, but it launches them in the air a bit, so no grab, unless it's a heavy like Bowser.

i know its a lot, but i want to know. thanx. i hope to recieve some good answers (and i hope they are all beneficial to kirby). kirby rules!!!!
No prob :D And Kirby does indeed rule :D I'm trying to stay realistic so I don't get my hopes squashed when more things get figured out, but so far ... it's love <3

I also wanted to respond to someone else as well:

I had a hard time killing with Kirby, it seemed like his moves did not do as much knockback as before. But actually, everyone had a hard time killing. I'm just too used to Melee. No kills were made under 100%.
Ya, most of the matches I'm playing, no one kills before 100%. Kirby's kill moves are his Back Air and his Forward Smash. His Down Smash is also good, and I get a good chunk of kills from the aerial hammer now too.

Kirby's Aerial Hammer is pretty good against Master Hand. Otherwise, it seems to have a too little hitbox and too much lagg to be effective.
The aerial hammer is too good :D You can quickly swing it twice, and if you're higher in the air, you can again swing it twice. You can keep doing that till you hit the ground. Our experiences seem different, but I myself love the move.
 

Wiwiweb

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I've played through training mode and killed hundreds of Sonics.
I've updated the first post to show you my new info. :)
 

Galvanic

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Can Kirby keep his current hat after his Final Smash? And I'm still wondering about item/Waddle Doo-eating--:dizzy:
 

Wiwiweb

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Yes, Kirby keeps his hat when using his Final Smash. I really have to show you that picture of Snake Kirby cooking. :laugh:

Also, I'll add your request to my "to do" list.


The aerial hammer is too good :D You can quickly swing it twice, and if you're higher in the air, you can again swing it twice. You can keep doing that till you hit the ground. Our experiences seem different, but I myself love the move.
Yes, after playing a bit with this attack, I actually changed my mind, it's a great move. The second hit is a great killing move, but hard to land. The first hit easier but sends diagonally. So, should I prepare my attack earlier to get the second hit or nevermind that and just use the first hit for damage ? Choices...
 

Sandwich

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Somebody told me Kirby's swallow range increased.
And I know I keep egging you with the Stone observations... But if he gets caught on Norfair when it's all flamey and he's in stone does he still take damage?
 

freetyme

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Thanks for the info! I'd love to know what ROB kirby looks like. Actually you've done more than enough, I'll just wait to see a Kirby Hat section somewhere else. That will be fun.
 

kenja0

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Things I learned while playing Brawl:

Kirby can jump after another jump, really fast.

Grabbing is a spedster game now. The slaps come almost as fast as you can press the A button but the breaking out of is faster. Slaps seem to do around 1-2% damage and can only get in around 4 before someone at 140%+ can break out of it, so act fast. F/B-Throws are now unbreakable and D-Throw stacks damage as you dance on the foe (No sex-kick counterattacks as far as I experienced). U-Throw can actually be comboed now since you have jumps!

Final Cutter is wonderful. You can grab the edge even facing the wrong way with it, which is always cool. The jump with it seems shorter though. But it can meteor going down now. And since you still keep all your jumps after getting hit, its safer to do when edgeguarded (best to leave a few extra jumps now) and can pretty much be spammed successfully like Link's UpB.

Stone can be useful if you know how to catch your opponent off guard (especially if they're the offensive type) If they pursue for a combo, and if you're quick enough, you can smack them hard. (Best to DI towards what they were trying to KO you with since its safer to assume you won't be dying in this game easily). The defense will protect against everything but a grab.

Ground Hammer is not too great. It may be slightly faster, but its range has been decreased to unreasonable. Short-hopping an Aerial Hammer is even better because of that tremedous knockback and the less need for sweetspot, but GHammer is good too if it is.

D-smash seems as if the range is shorter than before. Haven't been able to get a hit on someone using the 'roll around and dsmash' trick. And by the time someone approaches me and I use it, they have already hit me. It has lost priority.

Vulcan Jab, if used in a stage with walls, will trap a person if you use it a beam sword's length away from a wall. By trap, I mean there is absolutely no way to escape it. I stacked a player 200+% before I finished him off, he could not DI out of the way.

His u-tilt has more range behind and above him. It's also much faster, easier to do (w/o the jumping issue), and best of all, it has priority. That d-throw u-tilt juggle seems much better now with it especially if your opponent thinks you lack that priority still.

The u-air, with its extended range and increased speed, is far more useful as a priority move (Yoshi's Down-B fails!). Even though its knockback has been killed, its better because its easier to time, surpasses most of those other players' d-air, and enemies will usually be above you instead of below (I never found an opportunity to use d-air).

The new Dash A is amazing. It can be set up for doing many combos. If the last kick misses or fails to knockback, you can f-tilt immediately to knock your opponent away. If the last kick knocks your opponent into the air, you can short hop all aerial attacks including the hammer in low percents (d-air may take too long) and setup a combo anyway you would like.
 

Dodger

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I would like to request that you test cancelled swallowcides. Just test it in training mode if you have to.
 

kenja0

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I don't own the game, but I know someone who does and I play at his house.

But I do know Swallowcides are as the same as ever to do (maybe easier because of the range and pull) but it just doesn't seem as effective anymore since everyone can recover back to the stage if they break it (I can't tell but they don't fall below you anymore). The stages designs leave almost no room below, even Final Destination- which was my first use. So I'm assuming that its either both of you die, or neither, no inbetween.

And I haven't tested out what happens if I spit out the enemy below the stage. But I'll see about swallowcides in depth when I go over again.
 

Wiwiweb

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Somebody told me Kirby's swallow range increased.
And I know I keep egging you with the Stone observations... But if he gets caught on Norfair when it's all flamey and he's in stone does he still take damage?
I have to check that.

u put his usmash as nerfed, but your description says its buffed slightly.
In melee, the u-smash sends more vertically. Now it's more diagonally, that's why it's a nerfed a bit.

Stone can be useful if you know how to catch your opponent off guard (especially if they're the offensive type) If they pursue for a combo, and if you're quick enough, you can smack them hard. (Best to DI towards what they were trying to KO you with since its safer to assume you won't be dying in this game easily). The defense will protect against everything but a grab.
Well, in Melee, my Stone was always shielded and punished. In Brawl it's not that faster, so I don't think it changes much. I still have to do some serious matches to see if I'm right.


Vulcan Jab, if used in a stage with walls, will trap a person if you use it a beam sword's length away from a wall. By trap, I mean there is absolutely no way to escape it. I stacked a player 200+% before I finished him off, he could not DI out of the way.
Seriously ? I have to try this.

The u-air, with its extended range and increased speed, is far more useful as a priority move (Yoshi's Down-B fails!). Even though its knockback has been killed, its better because its easier to time, surpasses most of those other players' d-air, and enemies will usually be above you instead of below (I never found an opportunity to use d-air).
Maybe I focused too much on "less knockback = nerf". I'll have to test it's use in a real match.
 

kenja0

Smash Apprentice
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Stone: Their combos may be able to stop the transformation, but I find it very easy to predict how and what direction they will combo in and DI towards where they will go next (And up to pull off the transformation). Stoning aggressive combo-ists can be easy and numerous b/c they can't airdodge in mid-attack and they become too sure of where the enemy will ideally end up. I always remembered that in Melee, and it works better here where aircontrol is more sluggish.

Vulcan Jab: Completely accidental, but I just went with it. He was mashing buttons and directions but could not escape. The bounce from the wall and the punches kept him from countering at all. I would've left it on forever if the match wasn't 4-players and he hadn't called for a rescue. But I kept it going for a good 40 seconds and ended up killing him.

The u-air, as I remember from Melee, was insta-kill but almost impossible to reasonably pull it off. Other characters had d-air that had priority and speed that worked heavily against it. But in Brawl, I actually did u-air more times (and everytime successfully) than I would in Melee in a month (practicing with friends). Besides, it can set up for a B-air because of the decreased knockback, right?
 

Dodger

Smash Ace
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Messages
621
From my brief experience, I can tell you that uair is now more of a combo move. I was able to pull of repeated uairs in a row. But of course, knock back increases with damage so it won't combo forever. It could prove to be a very useful set up.

And the uair isn't that hard to hit with in melee. Especially on a level with platforms.
 

kenja0

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Yes, correct. I keep forgetting that I use Final Destination as my main competitive arena where those normal oppurtunities are few and far. Of course, this game seems to have more interesting and better balanced stages. I actually like Battlefield now.
 

Izmo

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
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The u-air, as I remember from Melee, was insta-kill but almost impossible to reasonably pull it off. Other characters had d-air that had priority and speed that worked heavily against it. But in Brawl, I actually did u-air more times (and everytime successfully) than I would in Melee in a month (practicing with friends). Besides, it can set up for a B-air because of the decreased knockback, right?
Ya, it's great for setting up the B-air. It took me a bit to get used to it. I kept going for U-Air kills, but when I learned to space U-Airs a bit I found I could land a few and then get that B-Air off nicely. I haven't had too many problems with priority (unless I'm fighting Lucario -_-) and even when I know I'll be out prioritized, I can usually get the U-Airs fast enough to not make it so bad.

And I'll have to try the mid-combo stone. That's great advice. The stone in general is fairly nice now. I play with my friend, who's been in the Smash scene since ... well, I'd say a very long time. He's a long time player and tournament organizer, and it's great to play Kirby and hear him comment in surprise when Kirby actually has priority on his stone and other moves. I've even gotten him by coming down in stone, popping up, and when he comes in, going back into stone and knocking him out. You can go in and out fairly fast now.

I'd answer more questions to help out myself, but you guys have so much covered, and there's lots of good info already :D I'll keep poking around and see if I can throw anything out. I've been visiting SmashBoards for a few years, but this is the first time I've ever really posted ^^;
 

skellitorman

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 12, 2005
Messages
319
Does Kirby's stone make him RISE up a bit before he transforms or no? At what percentages would his U throw kill at and does it always hit the platform above him (if there is one)? Thank you.
 

Dodger

Smash Ace
Joined
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Messages
621
Yes, I believe that the stone transformation makes Kirby rise slightly. I think this is how I was able to hit my opponent with the stone while I was on the ground.

I believe I managed to kill with the u-throw at ~180%. While he certainly does have better options (fsmash anyone?) People seem to live longer in Brawl, so it may not be as bad as it seems. The level was the old school Mushroom Kingdom. I'm not sure about your platform question though. Someone who has the game will have to answer that :-).
 

T_T

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Does the swallow still have suh pathetic lag/priority/range/everything ?

Does kirby have any spikes?

Any observations on how well kirby pulls of some of the new advanced techniques (particularly Fox Trotting and Pivoting)?

Do kirby's multijumps decline in hight as dramatically?

Thanks for all the new info :)
 

metaXzero

Smash Champion
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I think it has been asked before but does spitting your opponent out with Inhale/Swallow still cause them yo fly up. And can you kill opponents by spitting other opponents at them if at a high enough percentage?

Keep up the good work!! (March 9)
 

Norm

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good stuff good to hear he\'s better i stopped using him in melee because he was so easy to kill and he was much weaker.
 

deadmon

Smash Cadet
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i dunno
Kirby has definitely been buffed. He is currently my main, and even though his hammer is laggy, I actually find it quite useful, since it does kill at lower percentages other than his other moves.

And Stone is once again awesome.
 

kenja0

Smash Apprentice
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Got a little more info today.

Swallowcide: Your enemy still falls lower upon escape, however not as much. But the most interesting thing my friend brought up when he escaped the swallowcide was "I couldn't jump." I had swallowed him while he was in the air after his second jump and floated past the base of the stage. I think once a player uses his jumps, he can not jump when he escapes the attack. But I need someone to confirm this.
Also, many of the stages are like giant unboardable platforms. Spitting out your enemy makes you fall like in Melee, but if you spit them right under the stage, you can get them stuck and recover, especially with that new jumping info.

I got to experience d-air much better now. End lag is nonexistent. If you use it on an enemy and they hit the ground (meteor) but you don't, you can combo into a b-air.

Aerial Hammer also feels like it gives a tug forward similar to Yoshi's egg throw, but not as noticeable.

Final Cutter's down movement might actually be a spike: killed a stage-recovering Jigglypuff in the first 15 seconds of the fight. She could not jump at all before she spiraled down to her untimely 10% death. Stage designs also work against Final Cutter. That thought process where people said the chuncking parts of the edges of the stage on the new Battlefield will prevent getting them stuck, actually makes them more stuck. Final Destination, Battlefield and other such stages where the base resembles an upside down trapezoid will get Kirby stuck at those slants.
 

Wiwiweb

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 28, 2007
Messages
309
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Europe
Yes, I believe that the stone transformation makes Kirby rise slightly. I think this is how I was able to hit my opponent with the stone while I was on the ground.
I just tryed something after reading this comment and I found two things :
- Stone does not rise Kirby when transforming. It does when detransforming.
- Stone has a small area of effect AROUND the Stone when it hits the floor.

So actually, it has more range. It's more useful than I thought. I used it some times online, against enemies who will come under me to u-air me.
So I revise my judgment : It's not useless, it's just not often useful. But there are rare occasions when it comes handy.


Also, I've beaten a Shiek online. OMG TIRES ARE REVRESED.
(And I finished her with a Kirbycide. Yay)
 

tux_do

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 28, 2007
Messages
40
that's cool about stone, I'm sure I 'll use it. I did in melee, and was very succesful many times, so now it's even better.
 
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