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I think I was playing a different character, but switched to Kirby for the ditto. Because Kirby.
I admire your bravery
No problem. The last one was an accident so i posted the actual version again because i couldn't delete the comment. Also here's hoping for an E3 2016 3D Kirby game reveal along with more info on that new nintendo console.Er, let's try to fix those double posting habits @Project SonicSpeed .
No infractions, though, because Kirby (also this is a social thread lol)
Why can't I come?
oh yea..... because of WISCONSIN HAVING NO TOURNEYS..............
Yeah, Meteor Stone is absurdly powerful. In one of my matches against my friend's Megaman, I found out you can actually meteor stone the stage (near the ledge, but not quite on the ledge) and the hitbox actually goes BELOW the stage. It was glorious
MikeKirby
! I learned a lot from watching this matchup. Maybe ledge thump is preferred if the villager knows better?
As the metagame progresses, I'm learning that less and less people fall for ledge trumps so it might not work. However, if you can get through the explosions, you can try to trump a planking villager to get him off the ledge. Zee isn't the type of player that will time you out so I never felt the need to use meteor stone. He actually fought me onstage. The explosive balloons don't allow him to sweet spot the ledge so you can hover above him near the ledge if he's far below and d-air him after he blows his balloons up. I messed this up after a couple of resets and it cost me momentum of the match.Sigh... I was basing my assumption from what ADHD did but looks like I need to correct my theory. Now, I am watching Zee play Villager on NeoNebulous and Villager's Explosion Balloon Trip can actually move around like BT but not as far. Zee knows the exact distance he needs to be in order to sweetspot the ledge. He can also go underneath the stage and reach the other side.
Nice job and Nice try @
However, if the villager tries to stall/plank, my theory will work.
Yeah this was pretty obvious to me from the start. It's kinda like Brawl, where there was at least 1 Kirby way above everybody else's level giving him results, but overall he just had bad matchups. Most of the losses to Kirby are due to the Kirby player being really good, and/or people not knowing the matchup. When you learn the Kirby matchup, things become a lot easier. When you learn a top tier matchup, things become manageable at best.Also, I've said this before to a few people but I feel like Kirby is on limited time.
As time progresses, match-ups may start to veer away from Kirby--like the Sheik and Diddy matchups. Unless something is done to Diddy, it will become more and more of a nightmare for Kirby. =/
Thats one of my strats in that matchup. Unfortunely, the sonic player I alwas play against is not very good, so it could be much worse.
Actually, I believe the opposite. I do feel that lower tiers will become a bigger threat for Kirby to deal with (especially Falco, Bowser, Bowser Jr, etc.) which will be troublesome, but most of the top tiers are too polarized to completely invalidate Kirby's good MUs as time goes on. The only one I can see becoming a true threat is Diddy, Sonic, Greninja, Mega Man and possibly Pac-Man. Pikachu, too. Diddy/Sonic aren't as polarized as the others, they just aren't explored outside of Hoo Hah and Spin2Win jank. Greninja will progressively get better as his kit is explored more, to the point where he can invalidate Kirby. Mega Man will become worse than Villager (MUCH WORSE THAN VILLAGER) once people stop trying to be aggressive with him against Kirby. The reason you can stand your ground against Ninjalink is because he doesn't try to wall you out with AAA. If Ninjalink decides to get a proper defensive game going (to the point where time-outs become a thing), Kirby won't stand a chance unless some patch gives us better walking speed. Pac-Man can jank Kirby out if he wants to, but is similar to Greninja in that, as time goes on, he can invalidate most of Kirby's strengths. Pikachu is going to become QA + TJ spam + HSB for 35% kills against Kirby.As the metagame progresses, I'm learning that less and less people fall for ledge trumps so it might not work. However, if you can get through the explosions, you can try to trump a planking villager to get him off the ledge. Zee isn't the type of player that will time you out so I never felt the need to use meteor stone. He actually fought me onstage. The explosive balloons don't allow him to sweet spot the ledge so you can hover above him near the ledge if he's far below and d-air him after he blows his balloons up. I messed this up after a couple of resets and it cost me momentum of the match.
Also, I've said this before to a few people but I feel like Kirby is on limited time.
As time progresses, match-ups may start to veer away from Kirby--like the Sheik and Diddy matchups. Unless something is done to Diddy, it will become more and more of a nightmare for Kirby. =/
LOL.
BRILLANT!!! How long until Zero wants to ban Giant Hammer?
I play against Eevee's Kirby almost every day and while I win most of them, I don't think this will ever be an unwinnable MU for Kirby (With standard moveset, I dislike customs).
EMPEROR Eevee
anything else to add?
I second everything Fromundaman has stated in this post. The MU becomes 5-5 when you have Pac's ability as it somewhat evens up the zoning game. What really hurts Pac-man is if you have the life lead + Pac's ability + Holding Pac's fruit. In that situation, you can control the MU. Without his fruit, he can't go for the setups that he wants to do. And on certain stages, you can out camp him( I know this because @Hey guys, what's up? Haven't stopped by here in a while.
I play against Eevee's Kirby almost every day and while I win most of them, I don't think this will ever be an unwinnable MU for Kirby (With standard moveset, I dislike customs).
It's definitely in my favor, but Kirby's ability to stay in the air can avoid ledge traps entirely and Kirby can actually gimp me, even if it isn't the easiest thing in the world to do. Your combo game is actually pretty good as well, which allows you to kind of keep up with the pace Pacman racks damage at.
Kirby also has very good fruit setups as well as very good angles to launch the hydrant if you get control of it (Utilt launched hydrant when I have my back to the edge is terrifying). Kirby also can make great use of the hydrant water.
If Kirby can get my power, the matchup can also turn against me really fast as it comes down to who can use the fruits better. Now that Eevee is learning how to properly use all of the fruits, the MU becomes really tough when he gets an inhale. Beware though, as I can punish a swallow with Hydrant (Huzzah... they brought back being punished for successfully landing an inhale... Thanks Sakurai...), so don't do it if you're in kill % and no hydrant is on the field.
On the flip side... (Going to put this in a list to make it easier to read, which I should have done for the previous section)
-Pacman has better stage control through his traps, and the fact that I get to choose where and when to throw hydrant meaning it will be in my control more often than not.
-Footstools still wreck Kirby's recovery.
-Pacman clearly outzones Kirby.
-Kirby has a lot of trouble dealing with Pacman's Fair. The high priority of this move allows me to be very aggressive in the air if I choose, and it is a combo starter.
-It is surprisingly easy for Pacman to punish Kirby for hitting his shield. Despite my grab's bad speed, it's range allows me to grab you even if you retreat aerials like Dair on my shield. If you try to cross me up, I have trampoline OoS which hits frame 1 and kills follow ups (Bait this and punish! Kirby punishes this harder than most since you can hit my shield and stay airborne and out of range of the hitbox if you space yourself correctly.). If you try to hit my shield and retreat, Fair OoS can punish. It becomes a guessing game which is in my favor, but does yield good rewards for you if you guess right.
-If I am careful with my recovery, I shouldn't get gimped much.
-I have much safer kill options with Key, Bell, Melon, Apple, Orange, Hydrant, Bair, Nair, Uair and a kill throw than you guys do. My Smashes also kill but those are considerably less safe unless hydrant gushed off of a platform to cancel lag (By the way, you guys can use this too!).
-I can build damage up faster than you guys. Pacman's damage output is kind of insane tbh.
That's all I can think of atm. @
If you guys want a visual representation of this MU, we can upload one of the 50 matches we do a day of this.
Personally, I think the MU is 6-4 in Pacman's favor unless you guys get my power.
fromundaman
purposely SD'ed so he wouldn't have to deal with me camping on Konga 64 for 5 mins.) Learning how to properly use Pac's fruits also helps in this MU. Z-dropping fruits on his hydrants, near the ledge or if he is trying to approach you can be very useful. Just be careful not to let him grab your fruit. Each fruit has a different property as you all know so here's an example(s) of some uses that have worked for me:
The copy ability we get from Olimar does that, but would probably work way better. Our Pikmin beat his, and we can spam them with little to no consequence. Really, our ability in that matchup is crucial. I would take Upper Cutter for its general superiority and Jumping Inhale to ensure I get the ability.
