Kirby is taboo among higher level smashers? (now with cpt falcon discussion)

[Winston]

Most people think that kirby and pikachu are top tier in this game. (disclaimer: this is not really a topic about tiers!)

I have my doubts about that now, though, 'cause most everyone that I've played who are good plays a really good fox or falcon (less often, ness or mario). Heck, link yoshi DK are played more often than them. This may be because kirby and pikachu are overrated.

But maybe this is because kirby (and to a lesser extent, pikachu) are shunned by higher level smashers because they are easy to use decently at a low level, and thus seen as "n00b characters"? I know I've heard plenty of complaints about "n00b kirbies" and "n00b pikas". It seems like nobody really competes with top foxes with their kirbies and pikachus, though. (note: isai totally doesn't factor in this discussion =P)

So yeah, discuss, and if you are a really good kirby/pika please come play me ^__^ it'd be an interesting experience for me... (I think I've played one really good kirby ever... don't recall any really good pikas).

 

[Nephiros]

Uh? I don't really think so, I often play against good pikas and kirbies.

Heck, play me if you want and I'll take kirby or pika even if I don't really play with them at all (:

 

[Thino]

there are manuy good kirbies & pikas

 

[_kSo_]

my kirby isnt as gay as some people's *cough*cough* gerry

but my pika is decent. if you want to face a good pika tho, face gerry (valoem)

 

[bjdavis420]

Blaish has a pretty good kirby (dirty, but good), as far as pika, I have played many good pikas, cant name them though...

But yeah, I was in a ffa with a lot of good players, and i mess around with kirby some, and when i went to pick him, a couple of people were like "kirby????" so i think that yeah, kirby is rather a taboo player because of his dair. I also think that a lot of good players dont play with him because, to me atleast, hes just not as fun as other characters in general. There is a not a whole lot of different movesets for him (usable ones in play) as far as combos go.

 

[_kSo_]

^word. kirby is no fun. IMO fox is the most fun to play

 

[Box_of_Fox]

I think bjdavis is exactly right --the reason Kirby is shunned among many players is that he simply is not entertaining to play or play against. Versus kirby matches with 5 stock take 8-10 minutes instead of 5-6, and its usually the same thing, over and over and over again.

Pikachu is my main (mostly, although I consider Mario more fun, I'm not as good w/ him) and there are a number of very good pikachu/kirby mains on Kalleira (and ironically, the best Pikachus n' Kirbies aren't mains).

I think the reason newer players find kirby appealing is because his moveset has long-duration attacks-- his smashes have good hitboxes, power, duration, and less lag (so if they miss, they can roll backward then rinse + repeat). The Fsmash is easily the most useful attacks for them-- if players can't sh, z-cancel, or tilt juggle (because they don't know how), then kirby becomes, in their eyes, a very effective character.

 

[whaahppnd]

Yea, pika isn't bad as kirby
and i agree most good smashers don't play kirby simply because he is too boring
fox is the most fun to watch imo

i mained samus at first, then switched to kirby but got too boring, so i switched to pika, and people complained so i main mario now, who imo is really fun to play with

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

A lot of noobs play kirby and pika, true. I play falcon, falcon, and pretty much.. falcon. And also pika, but whats the point when I could play falcon?

So the n00b level kirbys and pikas who roll spam, camp, and try other simple strategies I often beat by a 3-4 stock but like Boxoffox just said, it takes a WHILE sometimes when they run the whole time and try to lure you into some gay drillspike thing.

However, I have played good kirby's and good pika's. A good kirby is really agrivating to play against because you have to really outthink him, as soon as anything of his hits you he can really push the offensive. A good pika makes for a fun match, I find. PIka is a great character, but also hard to master, the hardest according to some people.

I dont even mind noob kirby/pika. Its the noob ness that gets to me. I get impatient because Ness is a child and sometimes run right into a utilt of death or whatever, but for the most part I own noobs all around, because mostly I try to play people better than me within my clan PPS and outside of it to improve / learn

 

[moogle]

It's similar to Sheik in SSBM... even when she was at the top of the tier list, there were noticeably more Fox/Falco/Marth/Peach players around. I think it's just "this character is so easy to use... it's not rewarding." Same for SSB64 Kirby. There are many more Pikachu/Fox/Falcon players at the higher levels. I don't think there's a single Kirby main in the top 10 online now.

Oh yeah, I main Sheik in SSBM... and I've been seen using Kirby in SSB64 tournies.

 

[ant-d]

Kirby Is The Most Fun

edit- smashboards stopped my all caps

 

[felix45]

I play kirby and pika. I try to be as many characters as I can. it is just pretty much kirby and pika are so easy to play that I dont really practice them too much. I focus on characters that are harder to play with.

 

[bjdavis420]

I think that samus in ssb64 is way under appreciated. I hardly EVER see anybody play samus in 1v1, besides me

Edit: I realize its because she is not great 1v1, but i still think she is one of the more fun characters, who gets no love on kaillera

 

[_kSo_]

it seems most players who are main kirby or pika usually goes the other way around. Like if you're a pika main, you'll probably play kirby as a secondary. and when you're a kirby main, you'll probably play pika as your secondary.

similarly, most falcon players use fox as a secondary. with all the air juggling and grabbing, fox is a good way to make up for the lack of tech skill required in falcon. fox requires much more accuracy, tech skill and mind games.

This can also be seen in melee, as a lot of marth players will second fox to make up for the tech skill ( or lack thereof)

 

[kirbario7]

I for one think kirby and dk are misunderstood.

kirby is powerful with his suck ability and he can slam and slice the competition if used wisley.

Dk is a not commonly used character and yet hes strong and resistant.


pikachu though.He is not the best of characters.he has weak attacks(except thunder)and a hard Bjump to master. but once you get the hang of him hes pretty good.

 

[M3tr01D]

I just don't like how top level kirby plays, so I don't really use him ever. Most of the top players would probably agree since a lot use fox. You just can't compare fox and kirby in the fun chart.

 

[Winston]

Hmm, from the replies I gather that its more about fun factor than anything. =P Anyhow, with the lack of kirby players its hard to justify his position in the tier list at high levels of.

Thino, well, what do you mean by good? I mean good as in capable of going even with the emularena elite players that everyone's heard of. Like in that "smashers to avoid topic"... lol.

And I'd totally like to play someone's good pika or kirby. Nephiros, I'll take you up on that offer ^__^ I'm Winston on Kaillera; I haven't gotten to play you before cause you were ingame or waiting for someone...

 

[bjdavis420]

I for one think kirby and dk are misunderstood.

kirby is powerful with his suck ability and he can slam and slice the competition if used wisley.

Dk is a not commonly used character and yet hes strong and resistant.


pikachu though.He is not the best of characters.he has weak attacks(except thunder)and a hard Bjump to master. but once you get the hang of him hes pretty good.

Hehe, kirbario, poor, poor kirbario. *sighs* I dont know where to begin. Instead of saying anything, I am going to recommend that you read through some of the other ssb 64 guides, and maybe go try to play ssb 64 online (there is ALSO a guide on how to set that up). But just to set things straight... Kirby is a good character, not for his suck ability, slam ability (unless u mean dair) or his slice ability. Slice is a good move if you pull it off (to spike people that is), but most people see it coming and will dodge it. DK is used a decent amount in ffa, but DK is an extremely cheap character. The only time I will play a DK 1v1, is as DK, and vice versa. Once Dk is off edge, hes pretty much dead, and he eats combos like its his job. Pika has great aerials, with good knockback, and good combo potential, her utilt is a good combo starter, and her freakin fsmash is one of the more obnoxious edge guards in the game. If you find using her triple jump hard, then you need to practice, a lot, and read a lot of the threads on here. Playing online will also improve your game very quickly, as long as you try and imitate the moves that people use to beat you, and learn from them. Good luck

Edit: Kirby is good because of reasons stated earlier in this thread (fsmash hitbox, lag time, dair cheapness etc. not because he can turn into a block and drop on your head)

 

[M3tr01D]

Hmm, from the replies I gather that its more about fun factor than anything. =P Anyhow, with the lack of kirby players its hard to justify his position in the tier list at high levels of.

Thino, well, what do you mean by good? I mean good as in capable of going even with the emularena elite players that everyone's heard of. Like in that "smashers to avoid topic"... lol.

And I'd totally like to play someone's good pika or kirby. Nephiros, I'll take you up on that offer ^__^ I'm Winston on Kaillera; I haven't gotten to play you before cause you were ingame or waiting for someone...

Play dedrick if you wanna see what kirby should look like.

 

[Box_of_Fox]

Play dedrick if you don't want to have fun, that too, lol

 

[greenblob]

If you play online, high level Kirbys are almost non-existent. This changes when you go to an offline tournament.
As for Pikachus, doesn't Isai main Pika?

 

[epidiOn]

Blaish is a tough Kirby. I ran into my first Kirby players online yesterday actually.

 

[Box_of_Fox]

Isai mains and doesn't main everything I'm guessing lol

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

fox is a good way to make up for the lack of tech skill required in falcon

Scuse me? Falcon isn't exactly easy to play properly. Any nub can fthrow and get in 2-3 uairs, but ive been practicing my vs mario and pika combos for the last hour in training mode and I STILL dont have it.

Fthrow-short up uair, perfectly PERFEFECTLY spaced fulljump uair so that you can hit with a second uair, Fulljump uair, uair upb.

I just cant pull it off more than 2/5 times. Its pissing me off T_T

I hate playing on dpad sometimes >.<

He might not have shine cancelling but the spacing on his uair hitbox is an incredibly complicated thing when it comes to comboing mario and pikachu and ness. That's the tricky ones. pretty much anyone whos played falcon for 3-4 weeks can 0-death another falcon, fox, or link.

And after that its all mindgames haha.

 

[Dash_Fox]

Falcon is the easiest next to Kirby and Mario to play online.

He's too good.

... Fox is the hardest

 

[Winston]

Scuse me? Falcon isn't exactly easy to play properly. Any nub can fthrow and get in 2-3 uairs, but ive been practicing my vs mario and pika combos for the last hour in training mode and I STILL dont have it.

Fthrow-short up uair, perfectly PERFEFECTLY spaced fulljump uair so that you can hit with a second uair, Fulljump uair, uair upb.

I just cant pull it off more than 2/5 times. Its pissing me off T_T

I hate playing on dpad sometimes >.<

He might not have shine cancelling but the spacing on his uair hitbox is an incredibly complicated thing when it comes to comboing mario and pikachu and ness. That's the tricky ones. pretty much anyone whos played falcon for 3-4 weeks can 0-death another falcon, fox, or link.

And after that its all mindgames haha.

Actually, I don't think its hard cause like... you don't have to get perfect 0-deaths every time. Its still much, much easier to get in 50% guaranteed with falcon than it is with fox.

Although there is the mindgames part ^__^ ... I agree that falcon's too good lol XD

Oh, and does dedrick go as dedrick online?

 

[Nintendude]

I think that samus in ssb64 is way under appreciated. I hardly EVER see anybody play samus in 1v1, besides me

Edit: I realize its because she is not great 1v1, but i still think she is one of the more fun characters, who gets no love on kaillera

Samus ditto time

And yes Metroid, dedrick is the model good Kirby player (you know he's Anomalous, right?). He's the perfect example of why nobody wants to play Kirby. His style is incredibly lame and the only way to beat him is to be amazing or be really lame yourself. When I ran into him in the brackets my brain nearly exploded as I fireball spammed for 10 minutes a match. I never beat him, so I had to try something different >_>

 

[M3tr01D]

Samus ditto time

And yes Metroid, dedrick is the model good Kirby player (you know he's Anomalous, right?). He's the perfect example of why nobody wants to play Kirby. His style is incredibly lame and the only way to beat him is to be amazing or be really lame yourself. When I ran into him in the brackets my brain nearly exploded as I fireball spammed for 10 minutes a match. I never beat him, so I had to try something different >_>

yes I know all his alts lol. 10 minutes of fireball spam per match huh? you uh.... do any regular attacks when you guys played or just fireballs?

 

[cmasterchoe]

If i ever play with kirby, i try to play all my matches by using dair's sparingly. I just want to get into the habit of not depending on it as most noobs do, and if you go up against anybody half decent, they won't make it easy to pull off anyway. The only fair way to have a kirby battle i feel is kirby v kirby. Its almost impossible to drillkill off the edge.

And just because pikachu is a fav among noobs does not in any way make it a taboo for a pro to use, because you can take it to another level. No character's taboo on smash, as bjdavis so aptly demonstrated by taking me with his samus... although i want the first few stocks back! man, i think i played the first few terribly just b/c i was like "wait... samus... 1v1? wtf????"

 

[MattNF]

I don't like playing as Kirby seeing as how he's boring to use and he's incredibly overpowered(uptilt/down air anyone?). That being said, I only use him for serious matches like in tournaments.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Falcon is the easiest next to Kirby and Mario to play online.

He's too good.

... Fox is the hardest

I find mario incredibly hard to play. I cant move, hes too slow. I need falcon.

Falcon has a lot of advantages sure, but..

1. wow, recovery. bad and obvious.
2. priority lacking except in like usmash, which basically saves him from ness and pika
3. No projectiles

So he might be easy to pick up and play and yes the 50% combos are doable by a dyslexic cat, but the whole point of falcon is to have perfect 0-deaths, a la superboom / malva / johnny / captain blowjob etc

I dunno I find at a high level of smash its all about the mindgames because like malva said.. dont get hit. If you get hit, good luck vs anybody who has mastered their character.

 

[omfgomfg]

how is mario hard to play? he is very confusing to the opponent and his floatiness is an advantage, not a gimp

 

[Winston]

Don't get hit has a specific relevance to ssb that's not in ssbm because if you're playing malva/boom etc., then the person to get hit gets 0-deathed =P

But yeah, Dylan, I totallyyy want to play you =P I'm a falcon main too but we have different views on this thing.

And falcon is definitely NOT lacking in priority... fsmash, usmash, uair, bair have great priority, and ftilt has more range than anything ness has.

 

[mapler90210]

this is for ssb, not ssbm. pikachu and kirby, to my knowledge, are very good in ssb. fox/falco are top tier in ssbm, falco isn't even in ssb.

 

[Umbrasquall]

I've been playing in the Japanese servers for the past few days and some of these guys are amazing. This one guy had a crazy Link and Kirby, and basically did a few 0-death on me, to which I was like wtf. Another guy had a really good Falcon, and he even uses the f-throw, b-air, u-air, up-B combo on me, which I never see unless it's in a combo video. I actually recorded one of the later matches where I get 4 stocked lol. I'll put it up if anyone's interested in seeing me get owned.

EDIT: Yeah anyway, on topic, I play pika and kirby, but just not so often because they really just don't have the "cool" factor like fox and falcon do. At least for me.

 

[mercenaries]

there are 2 kirbies fat and skinny see?

fats tend to stayo n the groud and use smashes as almost every move
skinnies tend to go for the dair to utilt but still go for the fsmash when appropriate

i dont think most people know how to use pikachu properly even though he's the top tier he becomes the bottom tier when people spam throw attempts and so they get owned by faster characters (even link kills sloppy pikas)

 

[Volrec]

I play Mario and JIggs. I play Fox, but i play way to serious with him

I have to put mindgames to the max when im playing with Jiggs, because everyone else is fast. Mario has god combos.

Mudkipz rules.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

how is mario hard to play? he is very confusing to the opponent and his floatiness is an advantage, not a gimp

Lets put it this way, when I play falcon, I generally win. When I play mario, I don't.

I can never hit with that drill, I have no mindgames with mario, I suck with fireballs, and when I do hit with the drill I never get the death combo out of it, all I can do is drill-grab or drill-usmash

I cant do that Drill-uair before you hit the ground thing for the life of me, so whats the point of playing a character that you can't 0-death or at least combo for 60-70% with?

I can't play with anybody except falcon, and pika. But ANYONE can play pika, and I cant do those edgeguards that isai does where he jumps to the edge of the screen so again, whats the point? Id rather completly master falcon and be as good as boom/johnny/malva with him before picking up another character.

 

[Nintendude]

yes I know all his alts lol. 10 minutes of fireball spam per match huh? you uh.... do any regular attacks when you guys played or just fireballs?

Well yeah I used regular attacks when he was open. Unfortunately Dedrick is the kind of player who never does anything remotely risky so he's never open. I did, of course, KO him several times though (matches came to last stock), so I did get the occasional aerial and drill in there. I can take him to his last stock with normal Samus play too, but I never really win.

 

[Winston]

Not everyone can play pika and win in a world where falcons and foxes can combo you to death and all you can do is a two hit combo or something =P If they're careful enough not to get grabbed and gimped, that is...

Umbrasquall, I totally would like to see those vids.

Falcon is top tier