Kirby Help Desk: FAQ & Links & Introductions, ASK HERE! (Soon Resuming)

[Tomato Kirby]

OK, if you ever looked at either of these two stickies, you might be wondering what happened to the updates. I was busy with schoolwork ...as in, I somehow managed to get essays every week (I have three to do the next two weeks ). Fortunately, this is that time of year where most people get a vacation. As soon as I catch up on what has happened recently, my threads will start updating again.


I promise to get some updates before the week is done!


Updated: 10-19-2008 at 10:18 PM

The thread motto: Keep the SSBB Kirby boards a clean environment!

I envision that when this is finished, it will have become a corollary guide for other Kirby guides. Remember, this guide has contributions from the Kirby community (and others), so thank them as well.

To all our new Kirby players: We meet like several pink balloons from a parade in the land of dreams under a popping star. If anyone new wants to become part of the Kirby community, just post here, since I designate this thread the official “Meet and Greet” thread. Please take the time to go over our links, since knowledge is power. Our community will be glad to help.

Ask a question about Kirby and someone gives you an answer (not necessarily me). This thread is warranted because it helps deter single questions getting its own thread (e.g., "What is a Kirbycide?", "I need help against Kirby, I play _____", et c.). This thread can also serve as a temporary spot for match-up, stage discussion, et c. until the appropriate thread has been organized and constructed. Some questions are useful; some are tidbits, some are…odd. This will also be the thread you need if you want links for useful things.


Links, given in order of importance…

“Kirby and the Amazing Guide” By: t!mMy
A guide to using Kirby. A must-read for all Kirby hopefuls, or foes wanting specific knowledge.

"Oblivion’s Competitive Kirby Guide” By: XxOblivion77
A guide on Kirby at Brawl Central.

“Wavedashing, L-cancelling, All The Terms! Read First! Update 12/23/2007” By: AlphaZealot
This is for SSBM, although the terms still apply to SSBB. Hey, you need to know what we talk about! **For SSBB, there is also SHAD: Short-Hopped Air Dodge. This is part of the buffer system for SSBB, as well (input a command as Kirby lands, and it executes the next possible frame).

"Improve Your Moves! ” By: Dr. Peterson
Learn how to use each move properly. Title subject to change and incompleted at the moement.

"**ALL THE INFORMATION YOU NEED** Links to In-Depth Game Analysis Threads” By: SamuraiPanda
A must-look at for information on various aspects of the game.

“Playing to Learn, part of the playing to win strategy” By: MookieRah
Learn about taking your mind and skill to the next level.

“Playing to Win” By: Dave Sirlin
Learn to stop being a scrub and start winning.

“List of True Combos 6/5 ” By: Rhyfelwyr
A list of combos. My list disagrees with his for Kirby, so use this as an idea of what your foes can do.

“Kirby Video Archive” By: YingYang.ERROR
Watch videos of Kirby players! Now closed.

“Kirby's Matchups: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly ” By: Dr. Peterson
Our community discusses Kirby’s match-ups. Name changes a lot.

“Crouch Avoid List” By: Krii
Who Kirby can evade by just crouching.

“ Kirby: Right Back At Ya! A Guide for Copycats.” By: SkaManifesto
Things to know while copying other characters.

“The Inhale-Tips and Tricks” By: Maraphy
Discussion on Kirby’s neutral B move and Star Shot, along with comments for all copy powers. Comments on Kirbycide/Swallowcide (which is definitely not cheap).

“Star Warriors (The Official Kirby Support Thread)” By: YingYang.ERROR
Kirby General Discussion, and a link to a forum that should eventually open.

“Official Matchup Help Thread” By: Maraphy
A temporary(?) match-up thread. Dr. Peterson’s is better.

“Kirby FC Directory” By: Maraphy
Look for a Kirby player near you!

“Brawl Character Match-Up chart” By: Ivan Eva
A list of match-ups. Does not represent necessarily represent the views of the Smash Back Room. It also varies a LOT from our match-up chart. Use at own discretion.


Sections:
I. Why ask here?
II. General information: Pros/Cons, tier list, combos
III. Move-set information
*IV. Gameplay and Tactics: Edge-guarding, overall strategy
V. Kirbycide/Swallowcide
VI. Match-up specific
*VII. Stage suggestions
VIII. Miscellaneous

*Updates coming before SSB4 comes out, I guess soon!


I. Why ask here?
1…Why should I ask a question here instead of making my own thread or in t!mMy’s guide thread or in the Kirby Support thread?

Good question. This is more or less common courtesy. t!mMy is not always on SWF these days (he now resides at allisbrawl.com), and a single-question thread tends to have a few post answers before disappearing to page-whatever. It would be more direct and noticeable to ask a question here and discourage repeat-question threads (at that point, the question will likely become a FAQ). If someone else has a similar question, they might stumble upon it here, and save themselves the time from asking a question. The Kirby Support thread is meant for general discussion. The question may get buried, and there are better places (like here) to ask them.


II. General information: Pros/Cons, tier list, Kirby players, move-set and combos

1...What are the pros and cons of playing as Kirby?

Overall synopsis:

Kirby's moveset works well for him in practically every way save for approaching the opponent. When approaching, Kirby can become predictable and vulnerable as a result. On defense though, Kirby's well spaced aerials and grabs he can actually combo out of (!!!!) make him a danger to approach. Kirby's recovery is boosted tremendously by his over-b and his down+b can be used from time to time to allow him quick and safe passage to the stage.

Kirby has a few weaknesses, such as his limited approach and light weight, but these weaknesses are all supressed at high level play and as such leave Kirby many options open. Kirby will undoubtedly be a dangerous character to play against and a hard character to play as, making him one of the few characters that will be consistently surprising their opponents.

Pros:
Kirby is floaty=better DI
Kirby has a great aerial game
Kirby has several “kill” moves: F/U-Smash, (aerial) hammer, b-air
Kirby’s normal moves have practical purposes
Kirby has 5 jumps and vertical recovery with Final Cutter
Kirby is small
Kirby can crouch well
Kirby has several good combos
Kirby has the ability to fight off the stage
Kirby is able to create spacing
Kirby is awkward to fight
Kirby has jab lock
Kirby has several options on defense
Kirbycide/Swallowcide!

Cons:
Kirby is floaty=killed easily
Lack of good projectiles (Final Cutter is not good to spam)
Kirby is forced to approach (which is BAD in this game)
^Incidentally, Kirby has a few, predictable, approaches (Synergy )
Specials are situational
Attacks tend to be short-ranged
Not much for disjointed hit-boxes (hammers are too short and Final Cutter gets punished)


2...What tier is Kirby?

Kirby is 14th rank on the tier list (high tier, YES!). I highlight his name in the post.

After a full spring and summer of competition, the SBR felt as though it was time to take the first stab at a tier list for Brawl. Before I post it, let me remind you all of a few important things:


1. Tier placement doesn't necessarily reflect your ability to beat your friends with a specific character. You might beat your friend's Metaknight with Sonic, but that doesn't mean Sonic is top tier. It means you win that matchup against your friend. Tiers are not absolute measurements of match outcomes.

2. Instead of measuring match outcomes, tiers are more a measurement of potential of characters against the rest of the cast in a competitive, 1v1 tournament environment. It shows general strength of a character's abilities in a specific tournament environment. So yes, maybe Yoshi is a beast in teams or Ganon is REALLY good with items turned on... but this list measures somethingd different than those things.

3. This list is based on a combination of tournament result data, extensive discussions with top players and tournament hosts and looking at general trends in play in the current competitive metagame. It took a lot of work on the part of some of the best minds in Smash to compile this list.

4. This list might change with time. It is based on how we perceive the game to be and play it competitively NOW. However, if a replacement for l-canceling is discovered or new tactics cause the game to evolve over time, this list could change. So if you main a character that isn't near the top, keep playing and evolving their game. You might be the one, like Chu Dat's Ice Climbers back in Melee, that cause people's opinions to change.

5. That said, don't give up hope! Just because your character isn't ranked at or near the top, doesn't mean you can't do fantastic things with them with enough talent and effort. We do not publish this list to encourage players to change their main tournament character. If anything, it should serve as a challenge to take the game to the next level.

6. In Smash, any character can win in any matchup if you are smarter and better than your opponents by a wide enough margin. So keep playing to win and work hard to be the best player you can be, regardless of which character you use.


And without further ado, I present to you the official SBR Brawl Tier List (v1.0):

Top
Metaknight
Snake
King DDD
Mr G&W
Falco
ROB

High
Marth
Wario
Lucario
DK
Diddy
Pikachu
IC
Kirby
Pit
Wolf

Middle
Toon Link
Olimar
Fox
Zelda
Zamus
Bowser
Luigi
Peach
Ike
Shiek

Low
Lucas
Ness
Mario
Pokemon Trainer
Samus
Yoshi
Sonic
Jigglypuff
Ganondorf
Link
Cptn. Falcon

3…Who are the top Kirby players in SSBB?

In alphabetical order:
1. ChuDatz (Ice Climbers player, one of the opt overall, in SSBM)
2. Gonzo (Contributes significantly to the Kirby meta-game and community)
3. T!mmy (Top Kirby main in SSBM)


4…Does Kirby have any combos?

Yes! Kirby even has several(!) inescapable combos. However, certain combos on this board are actually strings...

For more information, this was thoroughly tested by Rhyfelwyr on the “List of True Combos 6/5 ”.

I present Kirby's…

Combos
Jab lock
F-throw > U-air (Gonzo Combo…character specific)
…I see ChuDatz add …u-tilt >b-air
…Can also repeat Gonzo Combo on heavy characters
F-throw > Aerial Hammer
D-tilt trip > f-smash (0-160%)
U-tilt > u-tilt (Reaper Combo)
Backwards u-air > u-tilt (0-33%) (Hard to do, though unexpected)
N-air > jab (leads into jab lock)
D-air > f-tilt
N-air > d-tilt
D-tilt > jab (lock)
B-air > b-air (a.k.a. wall of pain)
D-throw > u-tilt (character specific)

The basic combo is Down Throw -> U-tilt(2 times for some characters) -> Uair. Some of these you can do usmash. For some it is possible to di out by jumping up but not many. On the fast fallers you can do 2 u-tilts possibly backwards and after uair throw in a bair. You can modify this many ways to keep your opponent off guard. The main part of this combo is use D Throw and Utilt, the Uair can be changed for many moves. The number beside the name refers to the # of U-tilts. The fast fallers also can be u-tilted once, uair'd and then use down throw again.

Mario - No
Dk - Yes (1)
Link - Yes (1)
Samus - No
ZSS - No
*Kirby - Yes (1)
Fox - Yes (1 or 2)
Pika - Yes (1)
*Marth - Yes (1)
*GW - Yes (1)
Luigi - Yes (1)
*Diddy - Yes (1)
Sheik - Yes (1)
Zelda - No
*Pit - Yes (1)
*MK - Yes (1)
Falco - Yes (1 or 2)
*Squirtle - Yes (1)
Charizard - Yes (1)
Ivy - Yes (1)
Ike - Yes (1)
Snake - Yes (1)
Peach - No
*Gannon - Yes (1)
IC's - No
DDD - Yes (1)
Wolf - Yes (1 or 2)
Lucario - No
*Ness - Yes (1)
*Sonic - Yes (1)
Bowser - Yes (1)
Wario - Yes (1)
*TL - Yes (1)
Rob - Yes (1)
*Olimar - Yes (1)
CF - Yes (1 or 2)
Jiggs - No
*Lucas - Yes (1)

Characters marked with an asterisk (*) can di out vertically if they have reflexes of a super computer, but it's possible.

^Yoshi is missing .

Strings

Jab > anything else
U-tilt > any aerial
B-air > f-tilt
F-throw > f-air
D-throw > u-air
D-throw > footstool jump
D-throw > b-air
U-air > u-air
Final Cutter to jab (lock)
Footstool Jump to fast-falled n-air

Want to try and combo into jab lock?
"Improved Footstool Combo for Kirby by: Gonzo”


III. Move-set information

1…How should I use my moves?

"Improve Your Moves!” By: Dr. Peterson

I will present a summary of each move here for your convenience. Please note that it is incomplete. I also present my own comments and add-ons.

Inhale Summary

Though inhale is Kirby's signature attack, it is not as useful as some other moves in Kirby's arsenal. But it is always satisfying to use for Kirbycides and Stage/Star Spikes .

Kirby's Inhale has two parts, the suction range that pulls people in slightly, then the disjointed grab that extends from his body. Once they touch that grab hitbox they get swallowed, meaning that it interrupts any non-disjointed attack.

Inhale has potential to be a great asset to one's defensive game. It can be used to stop the approach of many characters, granted the inhale out-prioritizes the attack. The super armor frames will also save you in case you were getting hit by a high-knockback attack. Remember, the super armor frames only occur as your opponent is tumbling into your mouth.

In the recovery game, inhaling an opponent who is waiting for you on the edge is a great way to set up Kirbycides and Stage/Star Spikes. Inhaling an opponent who is recovering also sets up well for a Kirbycide, or just for spitting them back out farther away from the stage.

Inhale also has some situational uses. When recovering, Inhale can make you fall slower if you feel the need. Inhaling and Spitting/Copying after an opponent has used his double jump does not restore his double jump, which can be especially devastating to characters that rely on theirs, such as Yoshi and Jigglypuff. Also, Kirby can swallow items, such as Diddy's bananas and ZSS's armor, but he has significant lag afterward, so it does not seem very practical.

Combo's Involving Inhale
F-Throw > Up-Air > Inhale
Ledge Hop > Inhale > Starspike

Things to Learn with Inhale
Instant Inhale range
Moves that Inhale can out-prioritize (especially approaches)

F-Throw > Up-Air > Inhale is a string.

Back Air Summary

Back air is Kirby's go-to move. It's fast, powerful, and has good priority. If you're not using this move, then you are doing something wrong.

Some quick details need to be discussed about Kirby's B-air. This move makes Kirby's entire body a hitbox, meaning if you are right on your opponent you can use this move for mediocre damage. It also has sexkick properties, meaning after the initial use the hitbox stays active for a few frames, though not as strong as the initial attack. B-air has the potential to neutralize some projectiles, such as Zelda's Din's Fire, but the risk is greater than reward and this technique is more of a novelty. Finally, the tip of Kirby's feet are the sweetspot for the move where the most knockback occurs.

Kirby's B-air can be used to create a Wall of Pain. After knocking your opponent off stage, follow up with B-air's, continually pushing them further from the stage. Even if they are able to recover, it still is a good way to rack up damage.

You can also utilize this move in your shielding game. If a character rolls behind you while you are shielding, you can jump out of your shield for a quick B-air counter. When approaching a shielding opponent, you can SH B-airs just at the edge of it's range. If they want to attack after they shield your B-air, there's a good chance you will be out of range of their attack. If you are in range, just avoid with another jump and punish with another B-air. Same can be said about a grab; avoid then punish.

Though this is easily Kirby's aerial, you cannot simply assume it will tear through your opponents aerials. Characters with fast, long-range aerials such as DDD and DK's B-airs will generally out range and out prioritize Kirby's B-air. You have to use the B-air intelligently and not just spam it for best results.

Combo's/String's Involving Back Air
F-throw > Up-Air > Up-Tilt > B-air WoP
Up-tilt > Up-tilt > B-air ( > FF'd Bair if DI'd poorly)
B-air > F-tilt/F-smash (grounded opponent)

Things to Learn with Back Air
Good spacing/Sweetspot range
Moves that beat out B-air... at least the most popular.

I know we had a short week with B-air, but I think we covered mostly everything.

2...Is the blue wave Kirby shoots out from Final Cutter a projectile?

A projectile is a hit-box not connected to the character.

Yes, this is a projectile. The only one Kirby has.

Do NOT spam it…it invites jump-canceled u-smashes.

I REPEAT, DO NOT SPAM


3…Is Kirby’s neutral AAA (Vulcan Jab)… an infinite?

Actually, the move can be DI’ed out of. It just racks up a lot of damage. If Kirby is between 2 walls, then the move CAN become an infinite.


IV. Gameplay and Tactics: Edge-guarding, overall strategy

~~~~~Update coming~~~~~


V. Kirbycide/Swallowcide

1…What is a “Kirbycide/Swallowcide?”

In SSBB, a kamikaze by Kirby using the standard special, Inhale, and jumping off the side. Common setups are ledge-hop~>Inhale, dash~>short hop~>Inhale, or just standing on the edge~>Inhale. It counts as a self-destruct for you and the opponent.

It is also used to knock off a stock and reset percentages. A good time to use this is when you are ahead in stock, at a high percent, and the foe at a low percent. For example: Kirby 100% 3 stock VS foe 2 stock 0% is a great time since it has Kirby up one stock.

It is not cheap, and I am sick of seeing someone call it as such. It is a high-risk move on unsuspecting players. If someone keeps saying it is cheap, please direct them to Sirlin’s “Playing to Win” (I will summarize: In competitive play, we play to win. The game does not recognize ‘honor,’ it recognizes winning (e.g. camping in SSBB).).

Be careful about who you Kirbycide/Swallowcide with…as a rule of thumb, use against those who do not bother getting out and have bad recovery.


2…I am already Inhaled and about to be Kirbycided/Swallowcided! What do I do?

We have t!mMy's useful advice:

Kirbycides aren't as effective as they were in Melee, so you shouldn't have much problems with it. However, some tips for a Swallowcide:

If you're still on the stage when you're Inhaled you should try to Break Free immediately. Do this by rotating the control stick and pushing buttons - but be weary of executing a move that can kill you after breaking out (such as Ike's Quick Draw).

If you're off the stage you have a couple of choices. If you think you can Break Free quickly enough to get back onto the stage, then go for it (chances are Kirby can Footstool off your head first if you're Ike). If it looks like you won't be able to get back to the stage then don't struggle. Kirby will drop off the stage and lose a stock at the same time. You'll get KO'd too, but you can at least make sure to take him with you.

If he spits you out under the stage, don't panic. Most of the time you will still have a jump as well as your usual recover methods. The Star Shot will send you under the stage pretty far if you don't struggle to get out of it (don't struggle) and when it ends you will get a floaty boost to use to help recover. You may have to go for the far side of the stage (which also gets you away from Kirby) but chances are you can still make it back up and only take 10% from being spit out. Someone in my crew plays Ike and he can usually survive this from under Smashville and even Lylat Cruise, though Battlefield can give him difficulties because of the protrution hanging from the bottom.

Good luck. Nothing's cheap.

3… Should I go for the Kirbycide every match?

feardragon64 presents:

Lol, honestly kirbicides are normally pretty easy to avoid if they're a good player and they think about what's going on. It's far from being the one and only thing that defeats people(especially people with good recoveries). It really comes down to your opinions on what you consider "cheap". This goes into a lonnnng discussion about who smashboards considers scrubs, etc. which I don't think we really need to get into seeing as there are 9999299932429 other threads about it. So let me just put it like this.

What will you have gained from doing the kirbicide as opposed to not doing it? Vice versa?(winning?practice?etc.)

Do you want to play to win on all of your matches every time, regardless of what people think of you?

Can you play without them?(you should consider the scenario where they don't work on someone!)


Of course, kirby has lots of other moves. I highly recommend you learn to use them or most people won't really consider you a kirby player xD(same way a lot of people will play bowser just to bowsercide sometimes. You don't consider them a bowser player so much as someone who is playing bowser to bowsercide). It's a legitimate tactic in tournament level games so if you can pull one off, I would recommend doing it. However, it's actually hard to get someone into the proper positioning for one if you're playing against a good opponent. Also, I think it'd be better for you if you didn't use it in practice matches or friendlies since you can use those matches to improve on your OTHER kirby skills. If the match has more meaning for winning than just for pure practice, than by all means 3 stock them with kirbicides(if you can pull em off without dying i mean). Otherwise, I would reconsider =]

Best of luck

4…Can the Kirbycide/Swallowcide be canceled?

Kirby dies first and is thus unable to cancel, unlike in SSBM. It is unknown whether the opponent can cancel.

To my dismay, I think I had an Ike cancel the Swallowcide -_-;


5…What are other ways to Kirbycide?

U-throw on Smashville on the floating platform – when the platform moves, Kirby’s throw has no place to land.


VI. Match-up specific
1... Who are Kirby’s worst match-ups?

Marth, R.O.B., and Snake are Kirby’s terrors, with other match-ups relatively close. We have a match-up thread in progress, and it is worth checking out…


2…I play Kirby vs Kirby. Any ideas or thoughts?

An interesting (and long) match-up where the game is almost always decided by skill (and luck from tripping ). I refer to Kirby as your opponent for the purposes of this question.

You know what Kirby can and cannot do. So be wary of your own tricks. I can provide some friendly reminders, however:

1. Kirbyciding/Swallowciding is generally a bad idea in this match-up, since the other person knows the set-ups (so then they punish you) and what to do when caught. Kirby also has great recovery. Also, do NOT spit the other Kirby out off the stage.
2. Edge-guard(ing/ed): Prepare for aerial hammers and b-airs. Also, look out for an off-stage Inhale~>Kirbycide/Swallowcide and fast-falled jumps (which can lead to fake-outs if Kirby is above you). Some Kirby players also prefer air-dodging. Kirby will likely make it back to the stage
3. This match is going to take a long time, and this match will mostly be in the air. Be wary of (back and up) aerials.
4. Remember to space well!
5. Remember your out-of-shield aerials (especially b-air) and u-tilt!
6. Try not to be the one approaching. If you do, look out for shield grabs (aerial) and d-tilt (ground). If you use b/f-air as an approach and land behind Kirby, they will reply with an out-of-shield something. It is best to just go gradual (both of you end up approaching) and bait with tilts.
7. You can be Inhaled even when in Stone form.
8. Kirby’s foot seems to grow during u-air, so be careful.
9. When trying to juggle, look out for Stone, d-air, and aerial dodge.
10. When SHADing, remember, that this is a buffer system; input something (e.g. F-Smash)!
11. If Kirby techs on a platform above you, it is easy to follow their techs with a b/u-air.
12. ^On that note, try to not to tech on platforms above Kirby.
13. Please DI. For example, you go forward while using a b-air.
14. Final Cutter out-prioritizes Aerial Hammer.

Here is an example:
Cereal Rabbit (Light-pink) vs Pink Reaper (Pink)…March 31, 2008…If you want, the video has links to several more…


3. What is the “Omnigay”?

It is really situational, but it can kill Snake at ANY percent.

“Wanna Kill Snake at 0%? (video included)”

Then do the Omnigay.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhmRoAz_4CQ

It's easy.

Wait for the countless Snake's to grab their countless grenades. Grab them while they're holding the grenade, and time an up-throw so that you appear at the top of the screen when the bomb blows up.

Yep, it works. Go try it for yourself.

How it Works:
Proper timing causes Snake to die EVERYTIME at ANY % while Metaknight can SURVIVE at ANY %. If you get the timing of the bomb and the throw wrong, both Snake and Metaknight may die or sometimes MK will die by himself.

Why This is Effective:
There are two reasons:

1.) If you grab them while they have a grenade in their hand and you know how to do this move, it's great way to kill one of the hardest characters in the game to kill.

2.) If the Snake is AWARE of this technique, this means they won't be holding on to their grenades as often. A good Snake's approach is to always have a grenade in hand so that they can shield if MK wants to use Tornado. To sum it up, this eliminates a tactic that Snake was once able to use.

Just when we thought MK couldn't be more gay, the Omnigay appears.

Happy hunting.

^However, the grenade MUST have be picked up as an item.

Then there are team applications:

Every one here should know the omnigay, for those of you who dont know what that is. it is when metaknight grabs snakes with a grenade then grabs snake and up throw him the grenade should blow up right when metaknight is at the top of the screen. that will kill snake and meta will remain alive. here is a video http://youtube.com/watch?v=xhmRoAz_4CQ credit for the omnigay goes to InfernoOmni

The addition i made is for team battles your team must consist of a metaknight and a snake. you get snake to put a c4 on metaknight. then metaknight needs to grab your enemy an u-throw him (THE C4 MUST BE ON THE ENEMY WHEN YOU THROW HIM NOT WHEN YOU GRAB HIM). snake needs to time his detionation so that the c4 detonates the moment metaknight is at the peak of his u-throw. if it works your enemy is dead and you float back to the stage. if your timeings not right metaknight could die or your enemy and metaknight could die, also you need to have the higher controler port so pick player 4.

PS- I know it needs a better name. i did not make the origanal AT (i made an additon to that AT),there for I can not name it.

^Essentially, it makes Kirby a walking bomb and is somewhat more practical. Remember, c4 mine acts as a gooey bomb item. It does not transfer upon grabbing, and the mine needs to be on the opponent for the technique to work.


VII. Stage suggestions

~~~~~Update coming~~~~~


VIII. Miscellaneous

1...I want to main someone else! Who else should I main?

Ask anyone else and you get the “Whoever fits your playing style, of course.” Well, that does not help, so I give recommendations:

Top tier: Snake, Meta Knight
Low tier: Jigglypuff
Similar playing styles: Meta Knight, King Dedede, Jigglypuff
Contrasting playing styles: Ike, Bowser, et c.
Spammers: Olimar, Pit, Snake
Counter-pick: Just main a top-tier character like Snake, and that would cover most of your bases. Kirby has a few hard matches, though they are still winnable.
Teams: Kirby team meta-game is hardly looked into, so it is hard to give advice. Again, it is hard to go wrong with a top-tier character.

Personally, I play Marth as back-up.


2…How do I short-hop (SH)?

Not directly a Kirby question, but I see this often and it is important to know.

I might add this to my FAQ...

Contrary to what some say, how hard the jump button is pressed has no effect on the height of jump. Instead, the player is given several frames (varying per character) to let go of the jump button before the jump command is executed to perform a short-hop. The frames for Kirby has been increased from the transition of SSBM to SSBB. It is possible to short-hop with an analog stick, although it is considerably harder.

So how to practice?

This is a skill of reflex/finger muscle memory. Go to training mode, press the jump button, and let go as fast as you can. Repeat this for about 10 minutes (since fatigue does not help memory) each day/session until you get good. It takes a bit of time (I know firsthand, especially with SSBM Kirby), but is definitely worth it.

After that try running, jumping for a short-hop, and then execute an aerial. This is harder, since you are no longer just concentrating on short-hops. This is a valuable skill, and takes practice.

I actually did something creative to learn: in school during my spare time, I turned my TI-83 calculator upside down (to benefit my right thumb) and started the Super Mario game. I had small Mario perform short-hops against a basic block in that game. Short-hopping is much harder on a calculator. Since the ergonomics of holding a calculator and pressing a button quickly is not comfortable, I just had my thumb reach upwards...as a result, now I press Y for my short-hops...

Good luck. When frustrated, do not think of failure. Think of how you will eventually short-hop whenever you want.

Other ideas include using a faster speed in training mode and short-hopping in other games.




3…Should I set-up my controller for b-sticking?

I personally say no. I can give a quick list of the pro and con:

Pros:
Aerial Hammer can now take advantage of DI. Nobody wants to chase someone swinging a powerful hammer, right?

Con:
You lose the ability to DI all your other aerials. DI is VERY important. You do not want to limit Kirby’s aerials; they are his main game!

Do you know you can b-stick by pressing b and the control stick at the same time?


4…Can I have frame rate data for…

Sorry, I do not have Action Replay. If frame data comes, though, it is going here.


5…Is Kirby King, an administrator of smashboards.com, the same King Kirby 90 of SSBM fame?

No…King Kirby 90 came from Germany, while Kirby King comes from USA.



SPECIAL THANKS TO:
Dr. Peterson (Giving question suggestions)
TwilightKirby (answering questions)
Kirby Community (providing information)


Have a suggestion? Post or PM me. I will try to reply as fast as I can. Want to contribute? I can review your idea and give you credit.

 

[Tomato Kirby]

More space just in case (I hope not).

 

[Kirby Magatsu]

Hmm, this thread should help me when I'm not with will to search xD

 

[KonoK]

Um, the link for the Oblivion guide doesn't work for me.

 

[Tomato Kirby]

Alright: The link is fixed and the FAQ is up!

 

[Tomato Kirby]

Bump...

OK, someone must have a question somewhere, or at least wants to add a FAQ. If everyone wants to ask questions in t!mMy's thread, then I cannot stop them, but please add to the FAQ. It will save someone time and effort.

 

[YinYang.ERROR]

It is threads like these that make me feel the Kirby boards are the most friendly and helpful around.

Great idea by the way.

 

[chingy]

all i knows is that the brick kirby is not invincible =P

 

[Tomato Kirby]

OK, I present (in the first post, of course) the next couple of FAQs before it goes back to the depths of the SSBB Kirby boards...

 

[feardragon64]

Lol hey, you quoted me.
I feel intelligent...sorta...

This is a good intro guide. It *might* be worth stickying for all the new kirbies that come in and ask all these questions(i.e. repeated threads since people forget about the godly search function X_X)

 

[chingy]

Lol hey, you quoted me.
I feel intelligent...sorta...

This is a good intro guide. It *might* be worth stickying for all the new kirbies that come in and ask all these questions(i.e. repeated threads since people forget about the godly search function X_X)

thats true this might be stickied for that reason and plus who knows maybe even us experienced kirby mainers might learn something

 

[Tomato Kirby]

Ha, maybe I could also make it function as a welcome thread, too...

 

[The Dinkoman]

This will be very useful to new and old Kirby mainers. I hope this gets stickied....

 

[mafesto]

“Kirby FC Directory” By: Maraphy

Link doesn't work.

 

[Red.Tide]

I remember seeing a video on youtube where they demonstrated this technique for Kirby and Meta Knight (probably works with others) where you maintain your height while doing an aerial. I remember seeing the Kirby in the video stay in one place mid-air during the startup lag for his dair. If this is real, how is it done?

 

[Tomato Kirby]

First customer!

I remember seeing a video on youtube where they demonstrated this technique for Kirby and Meta Knight (probably works with others) where you maintain your height while doing an aerial. I remember seeing the Kirby in the video stay in one place mid-air during the startup lag for his dair. If this is real, how is it done?

D-air Stall (Toon Link, ZSS, Shiek, G&W; any character with a similar d-air)
How to Perform: After being knocked into the air, do a Double Jump and a D-air at the exact same time.
Effect: Character will execute a D-air and get stuck in the air. Neither moving upward nor downward, the character stays at the same altitude until the D-air expires. However, you can DI horizontally during this time to influence the direction of your fall.
Video: http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=BnRmDoJm0VI

Source: The NEW Comprehensive guide to AT's, Discoveries, and Glitches
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=164597

 

[chingy]

uhhh playing mind games with kirby helps like sya: run to opponent then shield roll back i dont know if you guys will understand this but hopefully you do

 

[Dpete]

Some things you might consider adding in your FAQ:

Who is a good secondary character for Kirby mains?
(Things to consider: Similar/Contrasting playstyles, counter-matchups, etc.)

What characters compliment Kirby well in 2v2's?

Does Kirby have any AT's?

Also might want to link the latest matchup ranking thread.

 

[Tomato Kirby]

^Fair enough. I will work on these...except someone needs to help me for 2v2, since I rarely did team battles in SSBM, and never did any team battles in SSBB. Synergy and unseen new strategies make it hard for me to say.

 

[Red.Tide]

First customer!



D-air Stall (Toon Link, ZSS, Shiek, G&W; any character with a similar d-air)
How to Perform: After being knocked into the air, do a Double Jump and a D-air at the exact same time.
Effect: Character will execute a D-air and get stuck in the air. Neither moving upward nor downward, the character stays at the same altitude until the D-air expires. However, you can DI horizontally during this time to influence the direction of your fall.
Video: http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=BnRmDoJm0VI

Source: The NEW Comprehensive guide to AT's, Discoveries, and Glitches
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=164597

I knew about this one, that works for the 'stall and fall' guys, but it was being done with Kirby and Meta Knight in the video.

 

[Tomato Kirby]

^Perhaps it was a character-specific video demonstrating the same technique?

Maybe you are looking at other aerials being maintained for the same height? As far as I know, such things do not exist. The best I can think of is DIing upwhile performing an aerial, but I doubt that.

I only know of Kirby's d-air having the properties you mentioned in your post. The answer I gave should cover Kirby.

 

[Red.Tide]

^Perhaps it was a character-specific video demonstrating the same technique?

Maybe you are looking at other aerials being maintained for the same height? As far as I know, such things do not exist. The best I can think of is DIing upwhile performing an aerial, but I doubt that.

I only know of Kirby's d-air having the properties you mentioned in your post. The answer I gave should cover Kirby.

Unfortunately, it doesn't cover Kirby. The technique says it works with "Toon Link, ZSS, Shiek, G&W; any character with a similar d-air" but Kirby's dair isn't similar to Toon Link's or the others; those are 'stall and fall', but Kirby just has a normal dair. Maybe I am misremembering or something.

 

[Inkofdeath]

Helped me learn a few things, even if they weren't things from the game to learn. ^_^

May want to add the topic that has all of Kirby's hats...

 

[Tomato Kirby]

^Hats? Already done.

Red.Tide: I still cannot find a video. I am surprised it is not covered in the Comprehensive Guide to AT's for SSBB if it was something this important. Any keywords besides "Kirby" and "Meta-Knight" would help...

 

[Tomato Kirby]

I bump this for the one FAQ I put. As always, questions here.

 

[Ykoahi]

since it said this was the welcome wagon thread, I'm posting here first

Hi, I'm new to the Kirby mainess, I didn't really consider him until i played my friend with my Link (who link has a hard time vs kirby), and he owned me with all of these combos out of nowhere, it was crazy :] I liked the combo play style vs Range, Range, range, Z air , z air, ooh a DAC , range , range , range, .....

Not only that but Link is extreemely technical, which takes me time to get good at, hence he's my alt now and kirby is my main :]

 

[Tomato Kirby]

Welcome, fellow Kirby player!

Your arrival is like another scoop of strawberry ice cream!

 

[Snail]

I would like to ask something (:

I main Olimar, and my brother plays Kirby. For some reason every move he has seems to shake off my pikmin, and I have a hard time getting back to the stage as well if I get knocked off :/ Kirby is one sucky matchup for Olimar... Any specific way to deal with him?

What I usually do is stall until I get a white pikmin, latch it, grab him and wait for the 40-ish damage, repeat, then wait for a chance to smash him to death, but it's hard to stay away from him without eating a hammer to the face >.> And he always comes back if I don't blast him off the screen immediately. Advice? :D

 

[Dpete]

You might want to consider linking Krii's list of moves that can be avoided by crouch to your important threads list.

Also, you may want to add a FAQ about Kirby dittos. It seems like an interesting topic; the more we know about how to attack our own character, the more we know about his own weaknesses.

 

[Asdioh]

Hiya, I've been dominating with Kirby since the good ol' N64 days, but I'm not so familiar with the more "pro" aspect of the SSB games, since I never had anyone decent to play against until Wi-fi came about. I'm also pretty new to looking this stuff up online, so I have a kind of general question. Is there anywhere that lists all the acronyms you guys use, since some of them are seriously confusing me, and I can't find a thread that lists them all. I've found some threads that list a few, but not all.

For example, "DI." I have no idea what that means, but since I used to play World of Warcraft, I think to myself "Divine Intervention" everytime I see that

Any help would be appreciated! And Snail, I dunno what to say. Olimar is one of my toughest matchups as Kirby...you have a lot of ranged moves you should take advantage of

 

[Tomato Kirby]

Snail:

I looked at the Olimar guide (http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=144161) over at the SSBB forum, and this is what I found:

NC-Echo posted...
"Originally Posted by t!MmY
Overall, Kirby may not look like he has a lot going for him - he is a light, short-ranged, slow, pink puffball. Sounds threatening, yes?

While the above is a common conception of Kirby, and entirely accurate, it reveals one advantage that Kirby tends to have in a match-up and that is how awkward he is to fight against. Fighting a light, short-ranged, slow, pink puffball is easy in theory, but players have to be familiar with what Kirby can do and keep on their toes. Kirby has various attacks to choose from and can go from quick and weak to slow and powerful depending how situations arise.

He lacks a good approach as both his ground and aerial speed is slow and his aerial attacks do not come out especially quickly, nor necessarily have little landing lag. But, as mentioned before, he can switch things up with B-air and U-air for speed, Final Cutter at a distance, and well-placed tilts to keep you off guard.

Because of his poor approach, he plays well as a defensive character who gets quick hits in and tries to move the game to the ledge or off-stage where he has an advantage. Playing patiently can make sure you don't leave yourself open and staying at a distance with ranged attacks can force Kirby to go offensive. Not making mistakes is very important in fighting Kirby, especially now with his buffed Stone, Hammer, and Smash attacks allowing for KO opportunities."

NC-Echo posted...
Counter: So I had a difficult time writing this section since no one I play with plays Kirby so I had to write this based on my impression and making my friends try Kirby for as long as I could make them. I may update this afet I get some more play in vs. Kirby. Anyway here goes:

Your best bet this match is to just out-range him as much as possible. As t!MmY said, Kirby has little options as far as approaching goes. Spam your F-B this match and make him approach then just punish him when he comes in. Kirby can get off tilt after some of his aerials before you can shield grab so a good Kirby player wont let you shield grab is he comes in from the right angle. Kirby is one of the characters that you can actually try and edge-guard if your feeling adventurous. You can easily spike him out of his U-B. Watch out for Kirby's D-B (rock) when your juggling him it comes out quicker than it has in previous games. Kirby, like most of the cast, will out-prioritize Olimar in the air so try not to trade hits with aerials. This is not to say that you shouldn't use aerials just that you need to mix it up. Watch out for Kirby's ducking cause you can often miss with an attack just because Kirby ducked. This match isn't that bad but Kirby can surprise you.

Difficulty of match, rated on a 10 point scale: 6

They agree with our match-up. Hope it helped...


Dr. Peterson:
Do not worry, that link was already in there. I still need to update my list of links, though.

I was also thinking about "Kirby vs Kirby" myself. In fact, I will do that now.


Asdioh:

Welcome! You are like another floating warrior joining our ranks!

A list of terms:
Wavedashing, L-cancelling, All The Terms! Read First! Update 12/23/2007
http://smashboards.com/forumdisplay.php?t=42749

^This is for SSBM, although the terms still apply to SSBB. I should probably add this to my list of links.

For SSBB, there is also SHAD: Short-Hopped Air Dodge. This is part of the buffer system for SSBB, as well (input a command as Kirby lands, and it executes the next possible frame).

"Olimar vs Kirby" should almost be an even match-up.

 

[Snail]

Uh, yeah. I can try and outrange him but the problem is that pretty much all of Kirby's moves shake off the pikmin. If I can latch a white it takes one downsmash to get it off, and that isn't exactly a fast way to damage Kirby. I need to grab or do aerials if I want to do any serious damage. Camping is pretty much useless since Kirby's Fair outpriorizes Pikmin throws and pretty much everything else I can do, except shieldgrabbing, but as the matchup thing said... He can get a tilt in first sometimes.

He's not hard to edgeguard, but Olimar is probably even easier... If I spam pikmin throws, he can easily get through the spam with a Fair and I can't keep running away. It's easier for Kirby to approach Olimar than it is for most other characters :/ Either way, I guess I'll try keeping my distance as much as possible... and get that grab in when I can. Thanks for your help (:

 

[Asdioh]

Thanks for the link, it helped. I watched some videos of that "wavedashing" stuff from SSBM...it's..interesting. I never played any serious competition in that game since I just had CPU players and a 6 year old (at the time) brother :/

I'm pretty sure I do short hop air dodges all the time. Particularly with the back air kick, unless you're talking about something different.

What do you mean by "buffer system" ?

 

[Tomato Kirby]

Snail:

Olimar vs Kirby (an approach)

NEVER approach Kirby. Kirby has so many defensive options against Olimar, it is not funny. So I will not even bother discussing how to approach Kirby.

So...

Camping is still your best bet. This forces Kirby to approach, and it is better than Olimar approaching Kirby. Keep both feet on the ground, since Olimar loses against Kirby in the air. Probably your best moves for Kirby's non short-hopped aerial approaches are (sliding) u-smash, (short hopped) u-air, and Pikmin Chain (whatever it is called; up-B) against Kirby.

Try pivoting and dash-dancing to keep Kirby guessing (especially with short-hopped b/f-air approaches) and try to be next to him near the end of his aerials (aerial-move DI {e.g. a b-air moving towards Olimar} for Kirby is least effective and cool-down lag). Learn Kirby's spacing so you can spot opportunities for a shield grab (whenever Kirby fails his spacing). Essentially, keep Olimar like an anti-air gun.

Against Kirby's ground approach, if you have the proper pikmin up front, you should probably grab. Olimar should also spam Pikmin Throw. Kirby will:
1. Go into an aerial approach (I discussed how to stop)
2. Roll (and you punish)
3. Dashing Shield slide (you try a grab or d-smash/tilt)
4. F-tilt (try another Pikmin throw, or grab/f-tilt)
5. Final Cutter (shield it if from afar, try a sliding u-smash if close)
6. SHAD (move backwards, since Kirby will input a buffered f-smash)


I think as a rule of thumb, keep Kirby in the air, up-throw when you grab, and stay in the middle of the stage. I think it is unusually important for this fight to learn the Kirby's style (so you can read his movements and punish AKA mindgames) for his approaching.

Choose platform stages like Battlefield, Yoshi's Story, and Smashville (easier to keep Kirby above you and read his tech if he is stuck on a platform above; watch out for platform-dropped aerials), ban Final Destination (harder to keep Kirby above you).

Sounds hard? Well, it is in Kirby's favor. Still winnable, though.

...

I think I will take this to the Olimar match-up thread and get comments on this. At the very least, it will generate discussion. I think I will PM this to you in case you never look at this thread again.


Asdioh:

I doubt you SHAD and b-air at the same time; it must be something else.

Buffer system:
Input a command as Kirby lands from a SHAD, and it executes the next possible frame.

 

[Asdioh]

Not really at the same time. It's just something I like to do. Say my opponent's on my right, and I'm facing right. I'll short hop and dodge in midair, then back kick right before I land, it's pretty useful.

 

[Snail]

Snail:

Olimar vs Kirby (an approach)

NEVER approach Kirby. Kirby has so many defensive options against Olimar, it is not funny. So I will not even bother discussing how to approach Kirby.

So...

Camping is still your best bet. This forces Kirby to approach, and it is better than Olimar approaching Kirby. Keep both feet on the ground, since Olimar loses against Kirby in the air. Probably your best moves for Kirby's non short-hopped aerial approaches are (sliding) u-smash, (short hopped) u-air, and Pikmin Chain (whatever it is called; up-B) against Kirby.

Try pivoting and dash-dancing to keep Kirby guessing (especially with short-hopped b/f-air approaches) and try to be next to him near the end of his aerials (aerial-move DI {e.g. a b-air moving towards Olimar} for Kirby is least effective and cool-down lag). Learn Kirby's spacing so you can spot opportunities for a shield grab (whenever Kirby fails his spacing). Essentially, keep Olimar like an anti-air gun.

Against Kirby's ground approach, if you have the proper pikmin up front, you should probably grab. Olimar should also spam Pikmin Throw. Kirby will:
1. Go into an aerial approach (I discussed how to stop)
2. Roll (and you punish)
3. Dashing Shield slide (you try a grab or d-smash/tilt)
4. F-tilt (try another Pikmin throw, or grab/f-tilt)
5. Final Cutter (shield it if from afar, try a sliding u-smash if close)
6. SHAD (move backwards, since Kirby will input a buffered f-smash)


I think as a rule of thumb, keep Kirby in the air, up-throw when you grab, and stay in the middle of the stage. I think it is unusually important for this fight to learn the Kirby's style (so you can read his movements and punish AKA mindgames) for his approaching.

Choose platform stages like Battlefield, Yoshi's Story, and Smashville (easier to keep Kirby above you and read his tech if he is stuck on a platform above; watch out for platform-dropped aerials), ban Final Destination (harder to keep Kirby above you).

Sounds hard? Well, it is in Kirby's favor. Still winnable, though.

...

I think I will take this to the Olimar match-up thread and get comments on this. At the very least, it will generate discussion. I think I will PM this to you in case you never look at this thread again.


Asdioh:

I doubt you SHAD and b-air at the same time; it must be something else.

Buffer system:
Input a command as Kirby lands from a SHAD, and it executes the next possible frame.

Thanks, this helped me a lot ^^ Yaay! -Hands cookie-

 

[ElectricKirby]

Hey guys, I'm new to the boards, so I apologize if this has been asked before. I figured I'd ask it here rather than start a new thread.

Anyway, I've read that some people consider Battlefield a good stage for Kirby; well, I really, really struggle on that stage. While I understand some of the pros we have there (Kirby can easily hit upward through platforms, etc), I have two huge problems here.

First, I find it's very difficult to connect with Final Cutter there. By the time you land, your opponent will probably be at a different platform level than you. You might get one hit in every now and then, but its effectiveness as a projectile is really limited here (unlike, say, in FD).

Second, I find it's very difficult to hit someone with downB there. There are just too many platforms under which to hide (unlike, again, FD).

So, am I wrong in thinking that Battlefield severely gimps two of Kirby's specials? Should I forget about these moves when I play on this stage? Or are there ways to make them effective here? I know I shouldn't spam these two moves in the first place, but I feel like my arsenal is badly limited without them.

Thanks in advance, guys!

 

[Tomato Kirby]

Hey guys, I'm new to the boards, so I apologize if this has been asked before. I figured I'd ask it here rather than start a new thread.

Anyway, I've read that some people consider Battlefield a good stage for Kirby; well, I really, really struggle on that stage. While I understand some of the pros we have there (Kirby can easily hit upward through platforms, etc), I have two huge problems here.

First, I find it's very difficult to connect with Final Cutter there. By the time you land, your opponent will probably be at a different platform level than you. You might get one hit in every now and then, but its effectiveness as a projectile is really limited here (unlike, say, in FD).

Second, I find it's very difficult to hit someone with downB there. There are just too many platforms under which to hide (unlike, again, FD).

So, am I wrong in thinking that Battlefield severely gimps two of Kirby's specials? Should I forget about these moves when I play on this stage? Or are there ways to make them effective here? I know I shouldn't spam these two moves in the first place, but I feel like my arsenal is badly limited without them.

Thanks in advance, guys!

Our meeting is like a plug connecting to an outlet. Welcome to our community!

Battlefield is indeed a good Kirby stage, along with Jungle Japes.

Yes, you should not spam those specials, and they should not be problems. Stone should be connecting against opponents lagging in the air (such as punishing an air-dodge). Final Cutter has been buffed from SSBM, although its main purpose is still better as vertical recovery (its main use on the stage is to get on a platform above which is even with the foe {who happens to be stuck in the air} and launch a projectile).

Your arsenal benefits from Battlefield. Mainly since it is very easy to punish with an aerial if they tech on a platform (leading to juggling). Kirby can also use a platform-drop aerial, which may catch someone below you off-guard.

Also, b-air is a good move in Kirby's arsenal. It is what Kirby players lived off of in SSBM. Do not neglect your other aerials, though. I also have a list of combos for Kirby in the first post. Also, shield grab, use out-of-shield aerials, and be happy.

 

[ElectricKirby]

Thanks a lot, Tomato, for the strats and the welcome!

I definitely see what you're saying, and I think I've just become overly used to playing on FD, so I've overlooked the benefits of platforms. And I know I need to increase the variety of my moves. I never played much with Kirbs on SSBM because things just didn't "click" with him, but when Brawl came out, I was blown away by how comfortable I felt with the little guy. So many things about him seemed so much better. The same goes for my second character (Pikachu).

Alright, I shall go practice now!

 

[Tomato Kirby]

To Snail (belatedly) and ElectricKirby: you are both welcome!