Kirby Everything -- Kirby Social Thread

[Pwnz0rz Man]

That doesn't make sense. Timing something correctly doesn't make it faster.

Also F-Smash has faster start up and probably less recovery than ground hammer

Also it's not the start up that makes ground hammer risky. It's the end lag. The start up is long enough to react to which is bad, and the move takes a good bit of time to recover. Miss and you will get hurt for it.

That's a good point. I probably should have worded that better. Which do you think is more useful overall? Ground Hammer or Fsmash?

 

[B.W.]

Depends on a few things, but overall, F-Smash is my go to move. It's faster and it moves Kirby forward.

Hammer might see more use from me whenever I get into Brawlbox and look at its hitboxes to see the sweetspots, etc. As of right now though, I'd rather do anything but hammer. Mostly a Melee Kirby habit though probably.

 

[jtm94]

I still like dthrow into hammer because... hammer time.

 

[trash?]

fsmash is neat when doing the duck -> punish or run schtick I showed, quick punish option for that kinda thing

That doesn't make sense. Timing something correctly doesn't make it faster.

when land-cancelled, the normally large gap btwn swings is nonexistent, not to mention that (taking this info from a brawl kirb player, hell if I'm ever playing him) the landing lag is pretty much cut an incredible amount

so yeah, it's faster when you know what you're doing

sorryyyyyyy I still love you

 

[Veishi336]

Uthrow into air hammer is a fun combination at certain percents. It just takes timing. Anyone else does this?

 

[JayMan-X]

Just a side note, the second hit of Kirby's Air Hammer has a nasty knockback angle
The first swing hits ppl more up and diagonal, while the second hit feels like Sheik's Fair

 

[hotdogturtle]

I think that Horizontal Cutter -> Usmash could be a combo on certain characters at certain percentages. I just have to find the magic numbers for fun times.

(It's probably not a kill combo or anything because of Cutter's knockback, but whatever, it looks sweet to pull off )

 

[Phan7om]

A few things that I found with Kirby:
1. Pressing his D-taunt down softly/quickly (like if you were sh-ing) will play the melee sound, while pressing it down hard will play the Brawl sound
2. FC can grab the ledge backwards now which can be a great gimping tool. (Especially at low % after b-throw if opponent jumps into it)
3. Kirby can still Hammer Cancel
4. Kirby can still Hup Cancel
5. The back side of Up-air is a semi-spike (sorta like pika's up-air)
6. Kirby's D-throw can cg certain charactes at certain %s
7. DA can follow up into Up-air at high %s if opponent doesnt DI right.

These things were probably mentioned before, Im too lazy to read the whole thread.
Edit: Just read it, looks like Player-0 and Canon beat me to it.

Just a side note, the second hit of Kirby's Air Hammer has a nasty knockback angle
The first swing hits ppl more up and diagonal, while the second hit feels like Sheik's Fair

It was like that in Brawl, it had just as much power as MK's SL but was a ton slower.

 

[Jethroo]

I took like 15 minutes to see who's grab can get kirby when crouched. Also, seems like the little bit of bobbing kirby does while crouched may sometimes puts him in range of grab up close, but otherwise this is what i found out.

Luigi - can sometimes grab
Peach - can't grab
C.Falcon - can't grab
Zelda - can't grab
Sheik - can sometimes grab
Link - can't grab until kirby around the end of his hook shot
Mewtwo - can't grab
Gaondorf - can't grab
Lucario - can sometimes grab
Charizard - have to be RIGHT next him to dodge grab
Pit - just like charizard
Ike - can't grab
Marth - can sometimes grab
Roy - same as Marth
Snake - can sometimes grab

Everyone else can grab him.

 

[Ginge]

Alright, so I never really mastered Wave Dashing back in my Melee days due to only having one or two friends that were around my level. I really enjoy playing as Kirby. Has anyone found a strategy for Project M Kirby that *requires* Wave Dashing? Is it something I really should dedicate weeks to mastering for Kirby play?

 

[trash?]

in general: doesn't matter if your character has the worst WD on the planet, if you ever want to get into mid-to-high level spacing, you're learning wavedashing, it's a requirement

I cheated mostly by forcing myself to learn luigi for the time I needed to learn wavedashing tbh

 

[Ginge]

I'm just having issues getting Kirby to short hop and his Wave Dash is minimal compared to Luigi or Squirtle (slippery little bugger ). I also can't pull it off consistently, as I usually end up doing side air dodge instead.... Alright, guess I should get to work on that... And getting used to footstool->down-b using my newly reassigned / previously unused y-button.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Kirby's WD isn't, "minimum."

 

[Ginge]

I'm getting about two body lengths on a good wave dash. Should I be getting more?

 

[SSS]

I'm getting about two body lengths on a good wave dash. Should I be getting more?

I can't verify this right now because I'm not by my Wii but WHY ARE WE NOT USING TRAINING STAGE GRID LENGTHS AS A UNIT OF MEASUREMENT.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

What I meant about the WD not being , "minimum," is it actually goes some where. It's good enough to work with.
And yea, using the practice stage is a good way to measure your WD. I get 2 and 1/2 squares with my WD. Each square can fit one Kirby.

 

[Ginge]

Sorry, next time I'll make sure I'm using Training Room. I was using FD.

 

[SSS]

Lol.

SO DTHROW.
I see some very good potential with this move. HERE'S THE THING.

FIRST OFF WE'LL ASSUME THEY DON'T DI THE DTHROW TO END UP BEHIND YOU WHICH SOME CPUs HAVE BEEN DOING.
--If they don't tech, you can jab reset-->grab easy as pie, it's guaranteed.
--If they do tech, you can ftilt, and while that hit is guaranteed, it'll take some skill to get the next grab.
The only problem is, while you can wait to see if they tech or not for the jab reset, if they do tech and you just stood there, you missed your opportunity for a ftilt.
However since you'll have to follow them after the ftilt anyway, is it wiser to just wait to see if they tech or not, then if they do, follow them and try for moar grabz or for a dash attack or something else janky?

HOWEVER THERE'S MOAR THEY CAN DI BEHIND YOU.
I'm pretty sure they can DI behind you. I haven't tested this but sometimes the new fancy CPUs (whoever programmed them was a god, thank you based PMBR) will end up behind you, and I think it's because of DI.
--If they DI behind you but don't tech, then you have to do a turnaround jab, which isn't hard since you have time before you have to do the jab reset.
--If they DI behind you and do tech, then not only do you have to predict the tech, you also have to predict the DI to get the ftilt. . .UGH.

So since the grab off of ftilt isn't even guaranteed, I think it's better to just dthrow, wait, if they don't tech jab reset (rinse repeat) and if they do tech follow them and. . .do what? DA? JC grab? SHCD (Short Hop Cutter Dash)? Some janky SHDL against Falco using his stolen power to get him into some crazy hitstun/frame trap to lead into another grab?

This move has potential for some smexy techchases, and I want to figure out EXACTLY what Kirbstomp has to offer in that department.

Also does anybody know how Kirby's grab hitbox compares with other characters? Do we has frame data? I would check him out myself but I can't find a FitKirbyXX.pac to open in BrawlBox and since he has no new costumes in ProjectM there aren't any on that SD Card and OH WAIT I CAN JUST DOWNLOAD SOME STUPID RECOLOR OFF OF KITTY CORPS AND USE THAT I'M A GENIUS.

 

[Frost | Odds]

Also hilarious: if you grab someone right on the edge of the stage, facing outwards, (maybe only works on stages with outward slanting edges), dthrow is a guaranteed spike kill.

 

[SSS]

Also hilarious: if you grab someone right on the edge of the stage, facing outwards, (maybe only works on stages with outward slanting edges), dthrow is a guaranteed spike kill.

By outward slanting edges do you mean Yoshi's Island? Because that's the only one I can think of right now. That's pretty bomb. YI for counterpick every time.

 

[SSS]

By outward slanting edges do you mean Yoshi's Island? Because that's the only one I can think of right now. That's pretty bomb. YI for counterpick every time.

Also can they DI out?

 

[Frost | Odds]

By outward slanting edges do you mean Yoshi's Island? Because that's the only one I can think of right now. That's pretty bomb. YI for counterpick every time.

I think it's happened for me on Yoshi's Island, Yoshi's Story, and the metal cave stage

 

[jtm94]

Foxes downthrow on the edge of Pokemon Stadium is a spike as well, there is no DI involved that "should" be able to save them unless they can wall tech.

Is there any gain from shorthop horizontal cutter over just horizontal cutter on the ground? I feel you can wavedash out of both? Or does the grounded one just leave you on the ground?

As for wavedashing I could do it more as Kirby, but meh. I think it is possible to be good without it, I'm just trying to understand his moves atm and how I "should" be spacing them.

Fsmash is amazing, also like bair, and SideB. Dthrow to SideB makes me happy inside. I try to CG some characters, but I can't figure out the end lag of dthrow to react fast enough.

Other things, I want to get better at landing dair off stage since it is a spike of sorts, footstooling is pretty neat and you can do it immediately into DownB. DownB can save teamates in doubles, Ivysaur is a good doubles partner because free solar beam is NO JOKE.

 

[SSS]

I think it's happened for me on Yoshi's Island, Yoshi's Story, and the metal cave stage

Mmmm nice. Still though I'm pretty sure you can DI behind dthrow. Either way you could dthrow then fsmash behind you to cover your ass if they DI.

Also all you scrubs better be changing R to down taunt. Kirby's footstool game is SOO GOOD and there's no way y'all are gonna be reaching down to your directional pads. I find dair off the stage-->mash X and R simultaneously to be particularly effective (if you aren't in footstool range, you'll keep jumping, no harm done; if you are, you'll footstool and laugh at the foolish Puff for trying to recover). Also I only say down taunt because that's the taunt to get rid of powers and edgecancelling the taunt to get rid of powers is so handy dandy.

Speaking of Kirby's Neutral B, can we get anything off of spitting them out? I know there's the obvious power steal, and the jumping off the edge for Kirbycide if they don't mash out and dair trollolololol if they do mash out, but is there anyway to combo off of a spit? It does 10 damage I think, and really I'd rather try to get something else after swallowing Ike then his god-awful Eruption.

 

[SSS]

Is there any gain from shorthop horizontal cutter over just horizontal cutter on the ground? I feel you can wavedash out of both? Or does the grounded one just leave you on the ground?

Um. . .well you can only do Cutter Dash (that's what we're calling Horizontal cutter get with the times it's happening) in the air, so um, idk what you mean horizontal cutter (read: cutter dash) on the ground.

 

[Frost | Odds]

Mmmm nice. Still though I'm pretty sure you can DI behind dthrow.

You misunderstand; this occurs while Kirby's stomping on them, long before any DI takes effect. Similar to how it happened occasionally with spacies' downthrows in melee, but this seems more consistent.

 

[SSS]

You misunderstand; this occurs while Kirby's stomping on them, long before any DI takes effect. Similar to how it happened occasionally with spacies' downthrows in melee, but this seems more consistent.

Oh. OH. Hawt.
Btw I'm playing with the idea of sucking somebody up after they've used their second jump and spitting them off stage, then going in for some nair/fair/etc. stuff. Does anybody know whether or not, when you suck somebody up after they've used their second jump, and then land on the ground, then spit them offstage, do they get their second jump back?

ALSO DTHROW ON ZSS THEN READING HER TECH AND PUNISHING WITH A BLASTER-->REGRAB IS SO FUN NFGHJHGFDFGHJKJHGFGHJ
ALSO AT CERTAIN PERCENTS I'M PRETTY SURE FTHROW COMBOS INTO BLASTER MMMMMMMMMMM LOVE THAT ZSS MATCHUP ALREADY

Alright so this is an edit so sorry if anybody misses this.
I'm pretty sure that if you fthrow ZSS while you have her blaster, and she's going for the tech (instead of djing out, which idk if she can), you can blaster her. The blaster seems to knock her down so she CAN'T tech, and THEN reset her, AND give her janky blaster hitstun. I'm wondering if similar stuff could happen to, say, Falco?

Either way, ZSS is a character that I would definitely make sure to swallow, just because of all of dem hella dope grab-->blaster mixups.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Quick question, if you spit someone out at a slanted wall, will they travel some of the slant? For example, the slant on smashville.

 

[Captain Jenny]

Kirby's short hop timing is like on par with Fox's. I keep accidentally full hopping

It was like this in Melee, so nothing new here.

@topic:
I've played Kirby for several hours after work last week & I'm amazed! I never got that hyped for P:M but NOW I am.

 

[Ginge]

Btw I'm playing with the idea of sucking somebody up after they've used their second jump and spitting them off stage, then going in for some nair/fair/etc. stuff. Does anybody know whether or not, when you suck somebody up after they've used their second jump, and then land on the ground, then spit them offstage, do they get their second jump back?

As far as I can tell, from fighting a computer Dedede, landing after inhaling them gives them at least ONE extra jump back. The computer tends to do one jump -> Up-B so I can't really tell if they have the FULL set of extra jumps recovered when you inhale+land+spit. I'd also be curious about inhale+spit before landing and whether that behaves differently about jump resets.

Alas, that is an experiment better done with two people and not one person with a CPU.

Quick question, if you spit someone out at a slanted wall, will they travel some of the slant? For example, the slant on smashville.

I'd imagine it'd be the same as it is for sloped floors. If it's a slight slant, it'll travel it. The closer it gets to a 90% angle, then it might hit the wall and bounce instead. Worth checking into. And again, easier with two people doing the experiment.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

If I remember correctly, when spitting someone at a wall, the spitting animation ended earlier. It might have sat there though. I'd have to mess with it.

 

[Ginge]

Ew. Just did Kirby spitting a character at the Smashville slant. The character ended up getting a free recovery to the stage without jumping / dodging. They'd hit the slant, stop being a star when they hit the wall, and curved up onto the stage somehow.

 

[Frost | Odds]

I don't think I would ever swallow anyone other than Ivysaur. The suck alone is one of the best moves in the game, imo.

 

[SSS]

I don't think I would ever swallow anyone other than Ivysaur. The suck alone is one of the best moves in the game, imo.

It's a very good move for some, and for others, their abilities are just too good. It depends on the matchup.

 

[Frost | Odds]

Indeed. It seems, so far, like Kirby's strength in a matchup is pretty hugely dependent on how many disjointed hitboxes are available to his opponent. Marth, Roy, D3, M2 seem pretty rough.

 

[trash?]

I don't think I would ever swallow anyone other than Ivysaur. The suck alone is one of the best moves in the game, imo.

technically, you should always take DDD's copy

(this is because it just gives you a suck w/ more range. it's silly)

 

[Frost | Odds]

technically, you should always take DDD's copy

(this is because it just gives you a suck w/ more range. it's silly)

Hell no. It's slow to come out and slow to stop. Way less safe.

EDIT: Probably swallow MK too, hahahahahahahah

 

[Phan7om]

For Kirby's Copy Powers I think the good ones are (The Ones Better than Inhale)
-G&W: You can get 4 pieces onto the field. If they shield, grab. If they dont, grab or kill. (subject to change if he can still bucket these, i havent tested that yet. If so, it doesnt qualify for this list)
-MK: Very good Brawl like 'nado
-Mario: Semi-broken when used aerially -> grab
-Ivy: High range and can combo/kill off of U-throw and DA (probably more, this is just what ive tested)

And the ones that are about even to inhale
-Sheik: Land cancelled Grab/Anything
-Pit: Can gimp if used correctly
-Zelda: Love Jumps to escape possible combos, and has low landing lag similar to sheiks needles
-Wario: Aerial grab like Kirby's
-ZSS: Dash cancellable which can lead into grabs if opponent sheilds it. Slightly worse than Mario's
-maybe Pika: Similar to Mario/ZSS but slower. Plus its very annoying and can be used slightly better than Pika can.
-maybe DDD: Aerial grab. Slower but has more range.
-maybe Marth: Sheildbreaker can break sheilds (obviously), you just have to condition them into sheilding.

*Note not in any specific order. *

Other than those, I wouldnt even recommend copying them cuz inhale is much better, being able to mindgame with an aerial grab is better than a lot of neutral-b's throughout the roster.

Note: I would say that Kirby's grabs are actually better than his aerial grab (inhale) just cuz it has potential follow ups. (Tech chasing, CGs, kill combos)

 

[B.W.]

Kirby's powers being good also depends on how good the power is vs the person he got it from in most cases.

Though there are lots of useful copy abilities. For the most part, anyone that gives Kirby a projectile is worth inhaling because Final Cutter isn't... Well... Cutting it.

 

[Sumodude-S51]

Has Kirby always had such a powerful hitbox on his swallow? I just KO'd my friend twice in a row just by swallowing a CPU right next to him (though he was in the high 150-200% range)...