Kirby...Disadvantages??

[Metaknights_Biggest_Fan]

When I look for Tournement vids on Youtube so I can improve my skill and techniques by watching some of the pros, I've found it odd that there is a great lack of Kirby playing opponents. Does Kirby have some sort of attack or speed disadvantages? Am I not looking hard enough? Or do competitors just think Kirby is plain gay?! Please Give me answers and feedback. Thankyou!!

 

[bluezaft]

Does Kirby have some sort of attack or speed disadvantages?

Yes. Both.

EDIT: oh, and look slightly up at the "Kirby Video Archive" thread.

 

[Buttcrust]

Kirby is on the slower side, dies incredibly easy, has a very tough time KOing others, and has little attack priority. He is currently rated the third worst character in the game so there are very, very few good players that use Kirby because most good players use good characters.

 

[Dragon_Hawk]

Kirby sucks thus few people use him. Even fewer people use him well.

 

[Metaknights_Biggest_Fan]

Kirby is on the slower side, dies incredibly easy, has a very tough time KOing others, and has little attack priority. He is currently rated the third worst character in the game so there are very, very few good players that use Kirby because most good players use good characters.

oh I see...what's the worst character?

 

[psykoplympton]

pichu or mewtwo i think.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

kirby is the worst character

he isn't very good at edgeguarding he isn't very good at recovering he isn't very good at comboing he isn't very good at killing he isn't fast and he isn't strong and he dies easily both off the top and the sides plus he is easy to combo for a lot of characters as well.

the only thing he is any good at is suicide kills, which dont really work very well on people with experience vs kirby

 

[Buttcrust]

Mewtwo is currently last on the tier list, then Pichu then Kirby.

Who is the worst character in the game is up to you, but these three are the generally accepted crapolas based on the tier list. I think 3 is about right but outright worst is debatable.

 

[t!MmY]

I think it's debatable who the worst character is, Pichu or Kirby. Kirby because of all the things Gimpyfish said, and Pichu because of the same things except he has much worse reach/priority, plus he is even easier to kill than Kirby, and doesn't even have Kirbycides. But he makes up for these terrible drawbacks with better speed and recovery.

 

[T0MMY]

I agree with both Gimpy & t!mmy, they're all terrible characters (and throw Bowser in that list as well, Gimpy, haha). But I have to say Pichu is without a doubt the worst character in the game.
Mewtwo is probably fourth from bottom:

Mewtwo
- slow, lightweight, mediocre attacks, bad special attacks (-5)
+ good recovery, good throws (+2)

Kirby
- slow, lightweight, bad attacks, terrible special attacks (-4)
+Kirbycides 4tw (+1/2)

Bowser
- slow, laggy attacks, bad special attacks, bad recovery (-4)
+ heavyweight (+1)

Pichu
- lightest character in the game, bad attacks, short ranged attacks, low damage attacks, damages himself (-5)
+ two different taunts (+0)

 

[t!MmY]

Actually, Kirby's [Normal] attacks aren't that bad. It's just that Kirby is too slow to use them to any advantage. (His U-smash and F-smash could be better though).

The only problems I have with his Special Attacks is that they have too much start-up/ending lag, leaving Kirby vulnerable, especially against people who know the timing and hitboxes.

 

[Wilhelmsan]

Bowser's special attacks are bad? I know for a fact that they all have their own uses. They might not be as good as say, Fox's, but they're important to his game.

Kirby's got punishment issues. The biggest Kirby combo you'll see is the occasional utilt juggle (which, IMHO, is nothing compared to its SSB64 equivalent). Maybe upthrow, upsmash....tentative upair.

-Kirby can edgeguard in somewhat the same fashion as Jigglypuff, but nowhere near as extreme

 

[Buttcrust]

I counter Fox with Kirby.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

bad specials for bowser uhhhhh


>_>

fortress? klaw?

he has amazing edgeguarding and range, your lists of positives and negatives dont liste ven close to everything.

but i dont really intend on listing everything anyways so meh

you counter fox with kirby? you must play some AWFUL foxes lol

 

[Buttcrust]

Hey, don't ruin my lie. It's inspirational. :D

Really though, I main DK so I stick with him against Foxes.

 

[Massive]

The biggest disadvantage I can see with kirby is his lack of horizontal momentum.
It's the only thing preventing kirby from doing Jiggs-style WoPs with his bairs.

Kirby's tilts are f*cking amazing though. (<3 d-tilt)

 

[CaliburChamp]

Kirby isnt that bad. He just isnt a mainstream character. His tilts are great, since they come out fast and have hardly any lag. Most people disregard that advantage of attack speed. And Kirby's F-air has a hidden hitbox range, so its has potential if used at the right times. And try, aerial hammer on a faster fall, or maybe a mid faller, you can create an unexpected combo.
Kirby has decent edgeguarding. With D-tilt, d-air, f-tilt... Kirby is vry underated.

 

[Dragon_Hawk]

Kirby isn't mainstream because he sucks. ._.

Attack speed doesn't mean too much when his attacks are 1) single hits for the most part, 2) don't lead into anything else, 3) lack knockback and/or damage that might make up for lack of combo, 4) don't help him too much on approach and 5) don't kill until +120%.

For his F-tilt and D-tilt pretty much everything on there applies, for U-tilt, you can ignore 2.

Kirby's Aerial Hammer on fast-fallers is cool but if they DI towards the ground and escape it, which is possible, they get free smash. And Kirby's head explodes.

And he really is that bad. Everything about Kirby is "decent" or "crap" and that, incidentally, creates a poor character.

 

[CaliburChamp]

Kirby will kill off everyone!!! Look at Kirby's potential with some of the vids online.

 

[KevinM]

Kirby has no potential he has everything explored about him and everything that has been explored has been considered crap.. him and pichu are downright terrible

Boozer> Mewtwo as well

 

[Dragon_Hawk]

Kirby will kill off everyone!!! Look at Kirby's potential with some of the vids online.

I don't even know if you're being sarcastic or not.

But Kirby probably has the least potential in the game and online vids are generally not the most credible sources to gauge a character's worth.

 

[Tha L@wl]

i agree that kirby is a horrible character because he has too much lag, no combos, average edge guard, and predictable recovery....

 

[KevinM]

I really wanted to agree with The L@wl about what he said then i saw his sig... PICHU IS ALSO NOT BETTER THE BOWSER >.>

 

[Gimpyfish62]

bowser is better than ness and doesn't belong in any kind of "worst character" discussion.

 

[Wilhelmsan]

any character is good in the right hands, that's all I gotta say

Edit: obviously it's not all I have to say, but whatever

 

[Tha L@wl]

lol....Pichu's Quickness > bowser....

 

[Gimpyfish62]

uh yeah pichu is faster than bowser but sucks so much harder it isn't even funny

and wow.

any character is good in the right hands, that's all I gotta say

thats a slap in the face to low tier players just fyi, and its completely false, and it is frustrating to see that people can still think this.

 

[Wilhelmsan]

thats a slap in the face to low tier players just fyi, and its completely false, and it is frustrating to see that people can still think this.

I hope you don't think that I'm belittling your skill with Bowser, because I'm not. I watched KrazyKirbyKid beat Rob$'s Sheik twice in a row. That's what makes me say something like this.

I definitely know that the disadvantages faced by bottom tier characters are large to severe. Some matchups are practically unwinnable at the current metagame.

Please explain why it's a slap in the face though. I don't see how bringing to skill of the player into the equation is insulting.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

you are more or less saying that every single low tier player sucks, because they aren't at that "good" level yet, more or less you've jsut stated i'm nowhere near playing a good bowser, because a GOOD bowser should e able to compete in a major tournament right? if every character can be GOOD then thats the case right? ther should be a lot more diversity in characters at tourneys, because they are all good

its ridiculous, its dumb

characters are bad, live with it.

 

[KevinM]

Because you say that any character is good if played correctly and the fact that we face insurmountable odds means that in fact your saying that your not playing your character well enough in the current Metagame it just can be taken offensive if read in context to how a player feels. Know what i'm saying... its ok though i didn't take it as a slap in the face...

And yea i agree Bowser can still kick the crap out of a pichu easily

Gimpy beat me to it... again

 

[Wilhelmsan]

You're not so much offended by my statement as you are by your own interpretation of it. I see how it is.

I respect you, I think you're a great player and you're one of the more entertaining posters on the SWF. Please don't take my words out of context and for the love of God, don't put words in my mouth.

My definition of good is different from yours. Don't get angry.

 

[Tha L@wl]

If i was any good at smash...I would challenge your bowser against my pichu...2 bad im still a n00b....

 

[Gimpyfish62]

the fact is the statement "any character can be good" implies that all characters have an equal chance at goodness, and perhaps the "top tiers" are just more popular or osmehing? no

theres a clear difference in the characters ability level

i'm not upset i've just heard that "any character can be good" garbage way to many times, i believed it when i was horrible, play a low tier character at a really high level THEN tell me any character can be good.

its not putting words in your mouth to read the implications

 

[Wilhelmsan]

you are more or less saying that every single low tier player sucks, because they aren't at that "good" level yet, more or less you've just stated i'm nowhere near playing a good bowser, because a GOOD bowser should e able to compete in a major tournament right?

its not putting words in your mouth to read the implications

Yes Gimpy, that's exactly what putting words in one's mouth is.

Now I'm not going to continue having this argument with you, because we're both right in our own way.

The concession: yes it's impossible to compare Fox's tournament winning ability with Bowser's (or lack thereof). But being good isn't all about winning tournaments. I can beat my friend's Marth with DK, we don't win tournaments, but I'd say that my DK is good.

 

[Buttcrust]

Kirby > Bowser for real. At least in a head-to-head match-up. Bowser is the one character Kirby can combo. Plus Swallowcide is "All to Easy".

 

[KevinM]

Kirby > Bowser for real. At least in a head-to-head match-up. Bowser is the one character Kirby can combo. Plus Swallowcide is "All to Easy".

Are you kidding me, Kirby will get destroyed by any good bowser. Kirby has no killable moves and woudn't be able to rack on enough damage to get a good swallowcide on a bowser.. every move bowser owns outpriotitizes Kirby's moves and he kills Kirby at 70% with an uptilt... face it Kirby is crap

If i was any good at smash...I would challenge your bowser against my pichu...2 bad im still a n00b....

You would still lose even you weren't a n00b. Pichu< Bowser and the fact that i have played my character enough to be able to know his strong points, mean i would capitalize on your character.. it would most likely be a JV 5 stock sorry man

 

[t!MmY]

If a Kirby player beats a Sheik player, it's because of:

The Kirby player is far more adept at the game.

and/or:

The Sheik player has little or no experience playing a Kirby of said skill level.

It is definately not because of Kirby's potential.

A player's potential is a much bigger factor, and that is often limited through physical movement and controller interface.

 

[KevinM]

t!immy as usual speaks the truth on this one.. Thanks for the info man i completely agree its not potential wise for low tiers... most have none

 

[Buttcrust]

Bowser is not good against Kirby. Yeah, Bowser's moves outprioritize Kirby's... if they hit on the same frame. It's just too bad that except for the predictable u-b Bowser's moves have crazy start/end lag and Kirby's aren't too bad.

No killing moves? Umm, you realize that Bowser has horrible recovery right? Off the stage equals death against Kirby for him because b-air keeps him at bay at or above stage level and below he can't reach the edge. Plus a well timed d-air onto the top of an u-b, even if cancelled, will drag Bowser down far enough to kill him more often than not.

Rack up damage to get a swallowcide? They don't require you to have damage but I do know for a fact that a simple u-tilt combo into b-air while Kirby DIs off the stage, in the direction the Bowser was just b-aired, DJed into an inhale will get Bowser even if Kirby doesn't turn around. Bowser gets reverse eaten everytime.

Bowser combos too easily for Kirby because of Kirby's lack of killing moves (ie: little knockback and heavy/slow opponent). U-b is all Bowser really has in this fight.

Your argument is, "Well a good Bowser wouldn't have that happen to him." Well, a good Kirby will be able to do that. Both players can be skilled you know... Bowser is the one match-up I'd bet Kirby on every time. Bowser is certainly a better overall character than Kirby, he just loses this particular match-up.

I play a great Kirby regularly (he's actually my teammate) and have a pretty good one myself. Both of us play decent Bowsers also. Both of us agree that this is the one counter-pick Kirby has, and I do mean counter-pick.

 

[Tha L@wl]

You would still lose even you weren't a n00b. Pichu< Bowser and the fact that i have played my character enough to be able to know his strong points, mean i would capitalize on your character.. it would most likely be a JV 5 stock sorry man

man....you live on the east coast....i bet i could knock off a life at least...i use pika a bit...so pichu should be too hard to use... i just have to pretend i got a poison mushroom during the whole fight...