Social King K. Rool's Kremling Kutthroats: This...Is Our Finest Hour!

[Enchess]

I'm not going to go out of my way to advertise Waluigi in the K. Rool thread, and they're clearly different in the roles they have in their source material. But one important area where the two overlap is in their standout personalities.

I do think personality is an underrated factor that makes some characters more electric additions than others. Comparing characters like Duck Hunt and Shulk, for example, the former has so much expressiveness that bleeds over into his attacks, with how he smirks while cans are being shot around or goes bug-eyed when falling from Up Special. Meanwhile the latter has a cool catchphrase or two, but otherwise gets a fairly run-of-the-mill brave, heroic portrayal.

Both K. Rool and Waluigi are solidly in the camp of characters you couldn't possibly add without their over-the-top personalities being conveyed to some extent. In that way, I think there's a similar appeal in requesting them as newcomers.

It's really a shame Smash doesn't show off Shulk's personality well. He's not really just run-of-the-mill brave, heroic. His notable characteristics are curiosity, frustration, and anger through most of XC. His primary motivation isn't even saving the world at first. It's revenge. But none of that shows in Smash.

EDIT: relevant Shulk quote, slightly shortened: "My purpose in life - I will pursue that faced Mechon…I will find that Mechon - find it and destroy it. Destroy them all". I bet nobody who only knows Shulk from Smash would guess his self-proclaimed purpose in life is genocide.

I definitely agree personality is a huge part of the appeal of both K Rool and Waluigi. I just am still in the camp of main characters 'deserve' inclusion more than side characters. People generally aren't outraged when their favorite main character doesn't get in, so people really shouldn't be outraged when a side character doesn't make it. Like, it's fine to be sad he's not in, but I think it's unreasonable to be angry he's not in.

 

[Aurane]

I doubt it. DK's new grab is a direct reference to DK Arcade.

What's your point? Lol

 

[Enchess]

What's your point? Lol

He was making an obscure DK lore joke.

Cranky is the arcade Donkey Kong. So he's implying DK having technically Cranky's move means we won't get cranky.

 

[BowserK.Rool]

I'm not going to go out of my way to advertise Waluigi in the K. Rool thread, and they're clearly different in the roles they have in their source material. But one important area where the two overlap is in their standout personalities.

I do think personality is an underrated factor that makes some characters more electric additions than others. Comparing characters like Duck Hunt and Shulk, for example, the former has so much expressiveness that bleeds over into his attacks, with how he smirks while cans are being shot around or goes bug-eyed when falling from Up Special. Meanwhile the latter has a cool catchphrase or two, but otherwise gets a fairly run-of-the-mill brave, heroic portrayal.

Both K. Rool and Waluigi are solidly in the camp of characters you couldn't possibly add without their over-the-top personalities being conveyed to some extent. In that way, I think there's a similar appeal in requesting them as newcomers.

This and they're both recurring characters in their series, both have a long history with Nintendo as well.

 

[Aurane]

He was making an obscure DK lore joke.

Cranky is the arcade Donkey Kong. So he's implying DK having technically Cranky's move means we won't get cranky.

Oh right. I forgot about that.

Thought he was being serious. Lol

 

[Banjodorf]

I doubt it. DK's new grab is a direct reference to DK Arcade. King K. Rool is the DK rep this game needs!

It's actually a reference to his new holding animation in Returns/Tropical Freeze, lifting up barrels and holding them over one shoulder. The Arcade animation is a bit different.

 

[CJ Falcon]

It's actually a reference to his new holding animation in Returns/Tropical Freeze, lifting up barrels and holding them over one shoulder. The Arcade animation is a bit different.

I'm pretty sure this is the reference:

 

[GravelerChamp60]

I'm not going to go out of my way to advertise Waluigi in the K. Rool thread, and they're clearly different in the roles they have in their source material. But one important area where the two overlap is in their standout personalities.

I do think personality is an underrated factor that makes some characters more electric additions than others. Comparing characters like Duck Hunt and Shulk, for example, the former has so much expressiveness that bleeds over into his attacks, with how he smirks while cans are being shot around or goes bug-eyed when falling from Up Special. Meanwhile the latter has a cool catchphrase or two, but otherwise gets a fairly run-of-the-mill brave, heroic portrayal.

Both K. Rool and Waluigi are solidly in the camp of characters you couldn't possibly add without their over-the-top personalities being conveyed to some extent. In that way, I think there's a similar appeal in requesting them as newcomers.

To be realistic, if Sakurai is going by the smash ballot then Waluigi definitely had the disadvantage looking at how much competition he had in his own franchise: Capt. Toad, Paper Mario, Daisy, Geno just to name the most requested Mario characters. Its a shame for Waluigi because he had everything to be a unique character and it is kind of a missed opportunity to not put the two sets of plumber brothers to go at it.

 

[BowserK.Rool]

To be realistic, if Sakurai is going by the smash ballot then Waluigi definitely had the disadvantage looking at how much competition he had in his own franchise: Capt. Toad, Paper Mario, Daisy, Geno just to name the most requested Mario characters. Its a shame for Waluigi because he had everything to be a unique character and it is kind of a missed opportunity to not put the two sets of plumber brothers to go at it.

Still, there's always a chance for him to be playable as dlc, as well as other characters like Bomberman in the future. If Little Mac can go from an AT to a playable character then then I'm sure they can to if Sakurai wants it.

Either way I'm confident in Smash Ultimate's roster and feel K. Rool's time as a playable character is now.

 

[BKupa666]

I'm pretty sure this is the reference:

I've seen this misconception on Twitter. *pushes up DK nerd glasses* The change was made to reflect how DK carries barrels and enemies in Retro's games, as the previous animation referenced how he carried barrels in the Rare games.

That throw is often used to reference the original Donkey Kong's kidnappings but the animation itself has always been from DKC.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I've seen this misconception on Twitter. *pushes up DK nerd glasses* The change was made to reflect how DK carries barrels and enemies in Retro's games, as the previous animation referenced how he carried barrels in the Rare games.

That throw is often used to reference the original Donkey Kong's kidnappings but the animation itself has always been from DKC.

Couldn't his new barrel pick up animation ALSO be a reference to that?

 

[PPNY]

Wow, its been awhile since I have been around here supporting King K. Rool. After Ridley's reveal trailer, I felt a glimmer of hope, as if Sakurai was saying this would be the Smash Bros where dreams come true. I've been burned before with this kind of thinking, but with the Smash Poll hopefully on the King's side, lets hope we actually see the Gator around this time (Atleast more then just a trophy pls?)

I wanted to quickly go over a few thoughts I had about the character, the big one being about K.Rool's size. Ridley always had this as his main excuse for not making it in, but even with his new shrunken down look, he is still able to look much larger then Samus. This is a bit harder with K,Rool, because DK is already about the max size most characters get and in the first game at least is, the King is made to be at least twice that size.

The first argument against this, is that like Bowser, K.Rool has shifted his sizes a few times. DKC2 and the ending cutscene with DK and him playing patty cake in DK64, have depicted them ranging fairly similar in size. But even the first game has a method of being debunked and thats actually through Diddy Kong. Diddy Kong and DK are the same size, and because Diddy and Dixie pretty much remain their similar size and the eventual Kiddy kong is scaled fairly large for being a baby, its pretty safe to assume that DK was only that size in his first game so that both player one and two would be controlling similar sized characters. With this in mind, you would really need to double the sprite size of DK for a more accurate representation between the two kongs, which really makes DK a lot closer to height to the King.

With size out of the way, it would be interesting to know what version of K.Rool they would use? The original 3D has its appeal, but sort of carries awkward anatomy, with the legs squished together underneath this oval shaped body due to the old 3D renders. The newer depiction of K.Rool (which lacks the golden stomach that better be a god damn skin) is okay, but carries proportions more of some middle aged fat guy then some large tyrant lizard king. Although I guess its hard to know what the orginal intent for K.Rool was, since his boss fights and personalities seemed to switch so constantly even within the same games (DK64 had him going from Doctor Claw through out the entire story, to a goofy boxer by the final battle).

That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if K.Rool received a bit of an update in his design, similar to Ridley. Hopefully something to find a happy balance between the two designs K.Rool has had.

Finally one last thing to debunk would be those claiming that his absence means that Lord Fredrick would have a higher chance. This one is just silly, since Fredrick is a one time off boss. It would be like Kirby getting Queen Sectonia as a rep. Both could be really fun fighters, but dont hold much weight as representatives of their series. King K. Rool hasn't been seen for awhile, but his presence as DK's biggest adversary still remains. He was part of one of the greatest trilogies on the SNES and offered a wildly imaginative final battle in one of the N64's greatest Collectathons. He has been sprinkled only slightly in most recent years, but Smash has always been a game celebrating Nintendo's history and the characters that had children staying up to 12 in their PJ's. King K Rool, deserves his spot in Smash 5, and hopefully with a lot of heart and a little luck, the dream will finally come true.

K.Rool for Smash5

 

[TCRhade]

Hello! I have returned! You may not remember me, I was one of Smash 4's biggest K. Rool advocates!

So I'm coming back from the dead to show my support for him once again!

It really is refreshing and heartwarming to see so much support for K. Rool still to this day. <3 I also believe he has his biggest shot in the series to get in this time around, if the ballot rumours are to be believed.

Also, the fact that almost nothing from the DK series was revealed in the Direct / demo gameplays except for a stage (and DK and Diddy themselves lol) or 2 is telling. I think we just may get what we want yet. I'm more confident than ever honestly.

We have to Konquer Ultimate.

 

[CrimsonFireWolf]

all I know is that the roster was finished around 2015 for smash ultimate. so around the end of the DLC of Smash 4. They must have used the data that they got from the smash ballot as their final roster choice

I personally think that King k rool it was up high on the list but they couldn't do it because it would have took too much time. He wasn't top of the list, Bayonetta was and I personally think Ridley was number one overall but couldn't have been put in because of he was a stage hazard in the pyrosphear stage

 

[StormC]

I definitely agree personality is a huge part of the appeal of both K Rool and Waluigi. I just am still in the camp of main characters 'deserve' inclusion more than side characters. People generally aren't outraged when their favorite main character doesn't get in, so people really shouldn't be outraged when a side character doesn't make it. Like, it's fine to be sad he's not in, but I think it's unreasonable to be angry he's not in.

We are pretty much out of main characters though. Series like Mario are into their third tier or so of “side” characters (Rosalina, Bowser Jr.). The point for many fans is that K. Rool is one of, if not the most, notable character not in the game, side or not.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Almost all the remaining characters that are popular have VERY similar attributes.

Fan favorites - did fairly well in the Smash Poll, haven't been in recent games, have series that are already represented in smash in some way. etc.

It's the differences that cause a divide in the community.

Although I'm kind of curious what kind of overlap there is between fandoms

 

[DarkFoxTeam]

There's something I've been meaning to bring up for a while now. Whether K. Rool gets into Smash or not, I think we need to make it very clear to Nintendo that we want to see him return in a mainline game again. If he doesn't at least cameo in the next title by whoever is making it this time (whether its Retro or this so called new team) then we have a god damn problem here.

It already hurts that the DK podcast recently brushed off the Kremlings as if they weren't important (bless that one girl who brought them up), but he doesn't appear in a future title then I'm gonna be pretty upset. Especially if by that time we still don't get K. Rool in Ultimate. The next few months are going to be important. I really don't want K. Rool to be some relic of the past. I think we're really going to have to try something to get our voices heard on this.

 

[MattOnwheels]

Hey, Lads! Look!! I blew out my voice doing a thing for us fans!

Think of it as half of a sort of Prologue~ I recorded until my voice gave out.

https://clyp.it/v4cwxnfg

Well? Should I finish it, Komrades? It'll take a while. My voice is shot just doing that much, but if it promotes our King, it's worth it!

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

You guys should vote on my poll

https://smashboards.com/threads/bleeding-between-fandoms-finding-the-common-ground.455951/

Trying to figure out which fandoms actually bleed into each other as opposed to a purely US vs THEM mentality

 

[BowserK.Rool]

Wow, its been awhile since I have been around here supporting King K. Rool. After Ridley's reveal trailer, I felt a glimmer of hope, as if Sakurai was saying this would be the Smash Bros where dreams come true. I've been burned before with this kind of thinking, but with the Smash Poll hopefully on the King's side, lets hope we actually see the big Croc around this time (Atleast more then just a trophy pls?)

I wanted to quickly go over a few thoughts I had about the character, the big one being about K.Rool's size. Ridley always had this as his main excuse for not making it in, but even with his new shrunken down look, he is still able to look much larger then Samus. This is a bit harder with K,Rool, because DK is already about the max size most characters get and in the first game at least is, the King is made to be at least twice that size.

The first argument against this, is that like Bowser, K.Rool has shifted his sizes a few times. DKC2 and the ending cutscene with DK and him playing patty cake in DK64, have depicted them ranging fairly similar in size. But even the first game has a method of being debunked and thats actually through Diddy Kong. Diddy Kong and DK are the same size, and because Diddy and Dixie pretty much remain their similar size and the eventual Kiddy kong is scaled fairly large for being a baby, its pretty safe to assume that DK was only that size in his first game so that both player one and two would be controlling similar sized characters. With this in mind, you would really need to double the sprite size of DK for a more accurate representation between the two kongs, which really makes DK a lot closer to height to the King.

With size out of the way, it would be interesting to know what version of K.Rool they would use? The original 3D has its appeal, but sort of carries awkward anatomy, with the legs squished together underneath this oval shaped body due to the old 3D renders. The newer depiction of K.Rool (which lacks the golden stomach that better be a god damn skin) is okay, but carries proportions more of some middle aged fat guy then some large tyrant lizard king. Although I guess its hard to know what the orginal intent for K.Rool was, since his boss fights and personalities seemed to switch so constantly even within the same games (DK64 had him going from Doctor Claw through out the entire story, to a goofy boxer by the final battle).

That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if K.Rool received a bit of an update in his design, similar to Ridley. Hopefully something to find a happy balance between the two designs K.Rool has had.

Finally one last thing to debunk would be those claiming that his absence means that Lord Fredrick would have a higher chance. This one is just silly, since Fredrick is a one time off boss. It would be like Kirby getting Queen Sectonia as a rep. Both could be really fun fighters, but dont hold much weight as representatives of their series. King K. Rool hasn't been seen for awhile, but his presence as DK's biggest adversary still remains. He was part of one of the greatest trilogies on the SNES and offered a wildly imaginative final battle in one of the N64's greatest Collectathons. He has been sprinkled only slightly in most recent years, but Smash has always been a game celebrating Nintendo's history and the characters that had children staying up to 12 in their PJ's. King K Rool, deserves his spot in Smash 5, and hopefully with a lot of heart and a little luck, the dream will finally come true.

K.Rool for Smash5

He's about the same size in DKL so I can see them going with that in SSBU with him just maybr being a couple inches taller so he's bigger than DK and Bowser. If they do give him a new look then I hope it's more Rare based because he looks so right with a tail, golden belly, large crown and long snout. Just like a crocodile should be. Also yes, I fixed your original comment in your first paragraph btw.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

To be realistic, if Sakurai is going by the smash ballot then Waluigi definitely had the disadvantage looking at how much competition he had in his own franchise: Capt. Toad, Paper Mario, Daisy, Geno just to name the most requested Mario characters. Its a shame for Waluigi because he had everything to be a unique character and it is kind of a missed opportunity to not put the two sets of plumber brothers to go at it.

I think it has more to do with him being an assist trophy. People weren't really thinking about future Smash games when they were voting. They were voting to get characters in as dlc. Obviously back then Waluigi was considered a lost cause due to being an assist.

Sure you can say Ridley was in a similar situation but I don't think you can compare Waluigi to Ridley in terms of want. At least not during the ballot. Also I think Sakurai was probably already aware of Ridley being very popular even before the ballot since he's still been prominent in Smash since the Melee days.

 

[link Г]

I think it has more to do with him being an assist trophy. People weren't really thinking about future Smash games when they were voting. They were voting to get characters in as dlc. Obviously back then Waluigi was considered a lost cause due to being an assist.

If I recall correctly the ballot even said not to vote for characters that already are assist trophies and in poké balls. After casting a vote for K. Rool I voted for Waluigi anyway because I like him and think he could be a great fighter if they actually tried.

I'm not going to go out of my way to advertise Waluigi in the K. Rool thread, and they're clearly different in the roles they have in their source material. But one important area where the two overlap is in their standout personalities.

I do think personality is an underrated factor that makes some characters more electric additions than others. Comparing characters like Duck Hunt and Shulk, for example, the former has so much expressiveness that bleeds over into his attacks, with how he smirks while cans are being shot around or goes bug-eyed when falling from Up Special. Meanwhile the latter has a cool catchphrase or two, but otherwise gets a fairly run-of-the-mill brave, heroic portrayal.

Both K. Rool and Waluigi are solidly in the camp of characters you couldn't possibly add without their over-the-top personalities being conveyed to some extent. In that way, I think there's a similar appeal in requesting them as newcomers.

Such attention to detail and personality makes me like characters like DK and Wario even more. If K. Rool makes it in I hope he's based on how he looked in Rare's games, were he felt more "scary" and villainous, but make him expressive like DK. I don't really like his later design. Also make his alt Kaptain K. Rool.

And if Waluigi ever makes it in he should be just as expressive as Wario, just look at him in Camelot's sports games and base his personality around that. There's so much untapped potential in both Waluigi (as well as Wario nowadays) and K. Rool, and they're just letting them sit there. Camelot did mention a few years ago that they wanted to do something with DK, like a DK64 sequel. Just let them do that and bring back the Kremlings. And given how much they seem to like them, why not let them do an RPG akin to the Mario and Luigi series, but starring Wario and Waluigi. Or a Wario World 2 featuring Waluigi, that could take inspiration from both DK64 and Mario and Luigi.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Really loving this guy's view and opinions.
Figured that I wanted to share it here as our King is part of it.

 

[Spirit Toons]

Wow, its been awhile since I have been around here supporting King K. Rool. After Ridley's reveal trailer, I felt a glimmer of hope, as if Sakurai was saying this would be the Smash Bros where dreams come true. I've been burned before with this kind of thinking, but with the Smash Poll hopefully on the King's side, lets hope we actually see the Gator around this time (Atleast more then just a trophy pls?)

I wanted to quickly go over a few thoughts I had about the character, the big one being about K.Rool's size. Ridley always had this as his main excuse for not making it in, but even with his new shrunken down look, he is still able to look much larger then Samus. This is a bit harder with K,Rool, because DK is already about the max size most characters get and in the first game at least is, the King is made to be at least twice that size.

The first argument against this, is that like Bowser, K.Rool has shifted his sizes a few times. DKC2 and the ending cutscene with DK and him playing patty cake in DK64, have depicted them ranging fairly similar in size. But even the first game has a method of being debunked and thats actually through Diddy Kong. Diddy Kong and DK are the same size, and because Diddy and Dixie pretty much remain their similar size and the eventual Kiddy kong is scaled fairly large for being a baby, its pretty safe to assume that DK was only that size in his first game so that both player one and two would be controlling similar sized characters. With this in mind, you would really need to double the sprite size of DK for a more accurate representation between the two kongs, which really makes DK a lot closer to height to the King.

With size out of the way, it would be interesting to know what version of K.Rool they would use? The original 3D has its appeal, but sort of carries awkward anatomy, with the legs squished together underneath this oval shaped body due to the old 3D renders. The newer depiction of K.Rool (which lacks the golden stomach that better be a god damn skin) is okay, but carries proportions more of some middle aged fat guy then some large tyrant lizard king. Although I guess its hard to know what the orginal intent for K.Rool was, since his boss fights and personalities seemed to switch so constantly even within the same games (DK64 had him going from Doctor Claw through out the entire story, to a goofy boxer by the final battle).

That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if K.Rool received a bit of an update in his design, similar to Ridley. Hopefully something to find a happy balance between the two designs K.Rool has had.

Finally one last thing to debunk would be those claiming that his absence means that Lord Fredrick would have a higher chance. This one is just silly, since Fredrick is a one time off boss. It would be like Kirby getting Queen Sectonia as a rep. Both could be really fun fighters, but dont hold much weight as representatives of their series. King K. Rool hasn't been seen for awhile, but his presence as DK's biggest adversary still remains. He was part of one of the greatest trilogies on the SNES and offered a wildly imaginative final battle in one of the N64's greatest Collectathons. He has been sprinkled only slightly in most recent years, but Smash has always been a game celebrating Nintendo's history and the characters that had children staying up to 12 in their PJ's. King K Rool, deserves his spot in Smash 5, and hopefully with a lot of heart and a little luck, the dream will finally come true.

K.Rool for Smash5

I kind of doubt Krool will happen due to his growing obscurity, not the things you mentioned. Krool is a great villain, but he’s a villain from a more forgotten era, and one that is deliberately forgotten as Nintendo themselves went through to kill off anything Country related after Rare’s departure. Retro brought back some elements, but it seems that the Kremlings and Krool are dead as a respect for Rare as Retro is not ruining their work, and it gives Retro more breathing room to be creative.

If DK was to get a new rep, then Dixie should take top priority as she is popular, can easily represent the country games from both eras, is female, and was in the most recent DK title, giving her quite an edge over Krool.

The Smash community may want Krool, but they are not a majority when it comes to Smash, as Smash gets the attention of many “normies” and children who are new to Nintendo, so Smash primarily focuses on newer titles to ensure that their new audience either (A. knows the character and will buy Smash) or (B. they don’t know the newcomer, but can easily seek out the game as it’s from the previous generation or current). Krool just doesn’t have the advantage of being in a modern title to justify his inclusion, especially when there are still DK characters with more relevance that have yet to be in. (Ie: Cranky, Dixie, or even Funky)

 

[Enchess]

I kind of doubt Krool will happen due to his growing obscurity, not the things you mentioned. Krool is a great villain, but he’s a villain from a more forgotten era, and one that is deliberately forgotten as Nintendo themselves went through to kill off anything Country related after Rare’s departure. Retro brought back some elements, but it seems that the Kremlings and Krool are dead as a respect for Rare as Retro is not ruining their work, and it gives Retro more breathing room to be creative.

If DK was to get a new rep, then Dixie should take top priority as she is popular, can easily represent the country games from both eras, is female, and was in the most recent DK title, giving her quite an edge over Krool.

The Smash community may want Krool, but they are not a majority when it comes to Smash, as Smash gets the attention of many “normies” and children who are new to Nintendo, so Smash primarily focuses on newer titles to ensure that their new audience either (A. knows the character and will buy Smash) or (B. they don’t know the newcomer, but can easily seek out the game as it’s from the previous generation or current). Krool just doesn’t have the advantage of being in a modern title to justify his inclusion, especially when there are still DK characters with more relevance that have yet to be in. (Ie: Cranky, Dixie, or even Funky)

I feel as though Funky and Cranky are passing trends. I don't expect either to be playable in future DK games or in Smash (exception if echo). I think KKR will return as the villain of DKC6 though. He is still the only one who can be called a villain of the series as a whole. I don't believe he'll be abandoned forever.

 

[Banjodorf]

I don't think the Mii costume is a guarantee at all.

However, it's clearly a sign that Sakurai knows there's demand for K.Rool.

So instead of seeing the costume as a sign that K.ROOL IS FOR SURE IN!

We need to see it as a foot in the door.

That's still a positive.

I understand you’re trying to be as neutral on the situation as possible Swamp, but I think the Mii costume is a bit more than a foot in the door. The fact that K. Rool had a unique model developed for him when there was already a trophy to pull from like for other costumes, especially one referencing a popular but irrelevant design, is more than a little bit interesting given the implications.

Obviously, all of that is speculah and we do need to be cautious to not overstate, but it’s certainly noteworthy.

I kind of doubt Krool will happen due to his growing obscurity, not the things you mentioned. Krool is a great villain, but he’s a villain from a more forgotten era, and one that is deliberately forgotten as Nintendo themselves went through to kill off anything Country related after Rare’s departure. Retro brought back some elements, but it seems that the Kremlings and Krool are dead as a respect for Rare as Retro is not ruining their work, and it gives Retro more breathing room to be creative.

If DK was to get a new rep, then Dixie should take top priority as she is popular, can easily represent the country games from both eras, is female, and was in the most recent DK title, giving her quite an edge over Krool.

The Smash community may want Krool, but they are not a majority when it comes to Smash, as Smash gets the attention of many “normies” and children who are new to Nintendo, so Smash primarily focuses on newer titles to ensure that their new audience either (A. knows the character and will buy Smash) or (B. they don’t know the newcomer, but can easily seek out the game as it’s from the previous generation or current). Krool just doesn’t have the advantage of being in a modern title to justify his inclusion, especially when there are still DK characters with more relevance that have yet to be in. (Ie: Cranky, Dixie, or even Funky)

Sorry, no. Smash fans aren’t a minority when it comes to Smash. Smash fans are literally the only ones who care about concerted efforts for the ballot. I’ve addressed this before, but the ballot was very clearly for actual Smash fans who would be at least a bit invested in its results.

“Normies” will either vote once for whatever character they like, or not care enough to vote at all. Hell, even people who are decent Smash fans may not have given enough of a **** to vote.

Ridley would be even less popular among normies, given Metroid’s lesser fanbase compared to DK, and is DEFINITELY less popular than K. Rool in Japan, and yet Ridley got in due to demand.

“Casuals don’t care about X so X doesn’t actually matter” is a shallow argument with little basis in reality.

 

[Enchess]

Yeah, I feel like I've said this countless times, but if lack of casual appeal killed characters' chances there's no way we would've gotten Shulk.

 

[SuperiorYoshi87]

I kind of doubt Krool will happen due to his growing obscurity, not the things you mentioned. Krool is a great villain, but he’s a villain from a more forgotten era, and one that is deliberately forgotten as Nintendo themselves went through to kill off anything Country related after Rare’s departure. Retro brought back some elements, but it seems that the Kremlings and Krool are dead as a respect for Rare as Retro is not ruining their work, and it gives Retro more breathing room to be creative.

If DK was to get a new rep, then Dixie should take top priority as she is popular, can easily represent the country games from both eras, is female, and was in the most recent DK title, giving her quite an edge over Krool.

The Smash community may want Krool, but they are not a majority when it comes to Smash, as Smash gets the attention of many “normies” and children who are new to Nintendo, so Smash primarily focuses on newer titles to ensure that their new audience either (A. knows the character and will buy Smash) or (B. they don’t know the newcomer, but can easily seek out the game as it’s from the previous generation or current). Krool just doesn’t have the advantage of being in a modern title to justify his inclusion, especially when there are still DK characters with more relevance that have yet to be in. (Ie: Cranky, Dixie, or even Funky)

If K. Rool received 500,000 vote's on the ballot and Dixie received 100,000 why wouldn't they choose the more popular option?


His relevance means nothing when he's one of the most popular characters fans want.... there's plenty of characters in Smash that "normal" video game fans and kids don't recognize... my nephew who is 10 has no idea who half of the characters are in Smash unless it's any Mario character or a Pokemon.

If characters were chosen merely off recent appearances there would be a whole bunch of characters who wouldn't be in Smash right now.... I don't disagree that K. Rool is at this point is obscure to younger gamers but the ballot is going to be what gets him in because it's clear there's plenty of fans who want him despite his lack of recent appearances.

 

[Banjodorf]

Yeah, I feel like I've said this countless times, but if lack of casual appeal killed characters' chances there's no way we would've gotten Shulk.

Also if they cared more about the casual fans than the actual Smash fans, why would Palutena be an E3 reveal? Casual fans have no idea who she is unless they also played Uprising.

 

[Spirit Toons]

I understand you’re trying to be as neutral on the situation as possible Swamp, but I think the Mii costume is a bit more than a foot in the door. The fact that K. Rool had a unique model developed for him when there was already a trophy to pull from like for other costumes, especially one referencing a popular but irrelevant design, is more than a little bit interesting given the implications.

Obviously, all of that is speculah and we do need to be cautious to not overstate, but it’s certainly noteworthy.



Sorry, no. Smash fans aren’t a minority when it comes to Smash. Smash fans are literally the only ones who care about concerted efforts for the ballot. I’ve addressed this before, but the ballot was very clearly for actual Smash fans who would be at least a bit invested in its results.

“Normies” will either vote once for whatever character they like, or not care enough to vote at all. Hell, even people who are decent Smash fans may not have given enough of a **** to vote.

Ridley would be even less popular among normies, given Metroid’s lesser fanbase compared to DK, and is DEFINITELY less popular than K. Rool in Japan, and yet Ridley got in due to demand.

“Casuals don’t care about X so X doesn’t actually matter” is a shallow argument with little basis in reality.

To start off, no Ridley did not get in due to demand, he has been requested since Melee and now he’s in? Why not Smash 4?

Ridley is in due to Metroid’s comeback, just look at where Metroid is now, with a spinoff in 2015, a remake in 2017, a promotion in Rocket League, and is now getting an entirely new Prime title. Ridley was added to bluster Metroid’s character select screen presence as a way to advertise Metroid as Nintendo seems very big on making Metroid a heavy hitter franchise, and what better way to do it then with Smash, which has many new players who haven’t played a Metroid title. Compare now to any other era outside Brawl’s (which had Zero Suit as the rep to represent Metroid’s success, and has Ridley as a prominent force in Subspace to market the story mode and Metroid), Metroid was dead, so Ridley wouldn’t be a necessity.

As for Smash, while Smash does have a big community, Smash is a gate-way for many new people into Nintendo’s franchises as this is a major gaming crossover, probably the biggest, so many newcomers will buy it, just like any crossover like MVC. Many companies bring their newest characters to promote them in these events as newcomers are what they are primarily marketing to, so old or obscure characters usually don’t stand a chance because their’s no point in promoting an unused character. Just think, what would build more hype for Smash in the general public, a character from the SNES that hasn’t really been used since, or a big character, say Waluigi or the newest Pokémon.

The Smash Ballot probably won’t have that big of a bearing either, we apparently already got the “winner” which the Smash community seems to think was wrong, as Bayonetta really didn’t seem that popular, so either the Ballot is done, or Nintendo really doesn’t care about the results and just picks the character they want in instead. I don’t blame them either, as they probably quit after Shrek and Goku were the top picks. I mean, both Bomberman and Waluigi were high picks, yet got treated like dirt. And if we go off of 4, King K Rool and Geno were put in as costumes as a way of pleasing fans.

 

[Vez]

I really don't think Cranky will be playable despite being "relevant". It's a shame because I like Cranky a lot and I think he has potential, but he's really just not that popular. I mean, I seriously doubt he got many votes on the ballot at all. I also just can't see him being added without Dixie, as even in Tropical Freeze she's pushed as the third Kong and Cranky is clearly the fourth one.

Funky could get in as an echo but that's the only way I see him being added. He'd be a fun echo, though.

 

[Organization XIII]

To start off, no Ridley did not get in due to demand, he has been requested since Melee and now he’s in? Why not Smash 4?

Ridley is in due to Metroid’s comeback, just look at where Metroid is now,

No, he's in purely due to fan demand. Sakurai didn't know how to make him work in 4 and Brawl which is why he was given special roles to appease fans. There's a reason he commented on Ridley in interviews when he doesn't usually mention characters. Metroid's revival didn't matter at all and Ridley would still be in Ultimate if it hadn't happened. Saying otherwise is completely ignoring Sakurai's history with the dragon.

 

[Enchess]

To start off, no Ridley did not get in due to demand

Didn't Sakurai literally say he got in due to demand? I feel like you are being purposefully blind here.

 

[Klimax]

Hi everyone !
I was a strong supporter of King K Rool's inclusion in Smash 4 (voted for him many times during the ballot), i was reading the thread about him every day. It was really cool to see so many people optimistic about the inclusion of a character that i want in Smash since 2002 (i fell in love with the King at the very moment i saw his trophy in Melee). I was really sad when he didn't make it in Smash 4.

But i refused to believe that he will never be a playable character in Smash. And I think that i made the good choice because i feel like he's more likely than ever. That's why i made my account, because i want to share some tears of joy when King K Rool will finally get his finest hour !

I don't think that relevance is a problem. Sure, he hasn't been seen in 10 years but i prefer to say that he missed just 2 Donkey Kong games, which doesn't sound so bad. Fun fact, last time that Ganondorf (i'm talkin about the human, not Ganon) was the main villain of a Zelda Games was 12 years ago (if you ignore Wind Waker HD and OOT 3DS). For me, Retro Studios just tried something else with Donkey Kong, just like they did with Metroid. But at the end of the day, Nintendo knows that in everyone's mind, K Rool is the Bowser of the Donkey Kong universe, they acknowledged it. He's also super popular, probably the most wanted newcomer now that Ridley is in the game. So yeah, i'm confident.

You can add me to the list of K Rool's supporters, I'll be a Kuttroats until my very last breath.

PS: Sorry for my bad English, I'm French and you know... we have the well deserved reputation of being bad in English (and every other languages) haha.

 

[Spirit Toons]

Also if they cared more about the casual fans than the actual Smash fans, why would Palutena be an E3 reveal? Casual fans have no idea who she is unless they also played Uprising.

To explain, Palutena and Shulk were both in recent games, so even if the general public didn’t know them, then they can go pick up the titles they were in with ease, maybe not Xenoblade for Wii but it got a 3DS port like a year later, so they would still be considered big characters. It’s like Roy in Melee, not a fan pick, but it clearly interested people in picking up the newest FE games.

Krool has basically been wiped out of Donkey Kong entirely at this point, so his inclusion makes no sense, why include a character you’ll never use again, as even if he sparks interest in DK, most people will find it difficult to find the games he’s a part of outside of virtual console, which doesn’t really help in selling the recent DK franchise to the general public if the new Donkey Kong inclusion is part of games from about 2 decades ago, but has no relevance elsewhere.

 

[Enchess]

To explain, Palutena and Shulk were both in recent games, so even if the general public didn’t know them, then they can go pick up the titles they were in with ease, maybe not Xenoblade for Wii but it got a 3DS port like a year later, so they would still be considered big characters. It’s like Roy in Melee, not a fan pick, but it clearly interested people in picking up the newest FE games.

Krool has basically been wiped out of Donkey Kong entirely at this point, so his inclusion makes no sense, why include a character you’ll never use again, as even if he sparks interest in DK, most people will find it difficult to find the games he’s a part of outside of virtual console, which doesn’t really help in selling the recent DK franchise to the general public if the new Donkey Kong inclusion is part of games from about 2 decades ago, but has no relevance elsewhere.

He is in the SNES classic if that counts for anything. I'm also of the opinion that Retro has at least some of its people working on DKC6 and would be willing to bet that if DKC6 gets made it'll involve K Rool. Retro is still being all secretive so we can't know for sure, but I find it very odd they did the Switch port of TF themselves if they aren't planning on building off of it for a sequel.

Sakurai would know all this and preemptively get K Rool back on people's mind before a DKC6 reveal.

I think K Rool has a 35% chance of being in Smash right now. That may sound low, but it's actually the most confident I feel about anyone who wouldn't be an echo (60% sure about Dark Samus)

 

[BKupa666]

Relevance means pretty much anything people want it to mean in my opinion. You can't generalize the entire population of gamers who don't post on message boards and act as though there's a foolproof way to appeal to them through Smash. As an example, Kid Icarus Uprising sold 1 million and change in 2012, while DKC sold 9 million in 1994. Can you straightfacedly say Palutena is inherently going to appeal to more gamers than K. Rool, just because her big game was more recent? After all, it's not just new gamers you can draw in to Smash, but also old or inactive ones; you also can garner interest in future games by putting a character as playable and then using them later (see: the entire Fire Emblem franchise). There's also the added wrinkle of a character not necessarily being popular and alluring just because they exist in a new game. Like, yeah, little kids know who Monita is from Nintendo Land, but do they love her to the point of begging Mom and Dad to buy an entirely different fighting game to see more of her?

If the discrepancy between K. Rool and Dixie on the ballot was as big as it has been in the myriad fan polls, I don't think there's any chance Sakurai looks at the Rool votes and says "Oh? They're secretly voting for a DK Rep, so I'mma add Dixie." We didn't get a DK Rep costume...

...we got a K. Rool costume.

K. Rool could still miss out and Dixie could still become playable, but those are decisions that would be made independently from each other, not because the two entirely different characters are competing for a single spot. It's -because- they're being evaluated independently, and have different strengths to offer, that I'm about as optimistic as I can be about us getting both this time.

 

[-VictoriaJustice-]

Allow me to reshare my own quote here.

Relevance shouldn't be about how recently you appeared in a game, but rather, the impact you made in the games you did appear in.

To say he's pretty much a nothing character is idiotic. Back in the day, he was THE Bowser to DK's Mario. Just because he didn't appear in 2/5 of the DKC games doesn't mean much. Retro wanted to experiment with other potential villains but did they ever receive the same amount of love that K. Rool did? Do you hear people requested that Tiki thing or Lord Fredrik? (Sorry, I legitimately forgot what the hell that final boss in Returns is called. He's incredibly forgettable.)

No. When gamers think "Donkey Kong villain", more often than not, it's King K. Rool. There is nothing wrong with wanting him for nostalgic reasons or anything like that. Smash Bros. is a game about Nintendo characters (and guests) beating the hell out of each other. Mario has his villain. Samus got hers now. The Donkey Kong series is definitely big enough to receive theirs. Donkey and Diddy shouldn't be the only ones. In my opinion, it feels empty without K. Rool there. I would love to beat the hell out of him with Donkey Kong on Fourside with both of them wearing bunny hoods.

Relevance means squat. It's about his popularity. He hasn't appeared in a game (not counting cameos or the easter egg in Odyssey) in literally over 10 years now but the fans never forgot him. It's the fans that are helping him remain in the Smash players' eyes. Like others have said, maybe his inclusion in Smash will help him get back to his former glory and be the main villain in the next DKC game. Hell...what if he's DLC in Mario Tennis? Or playable in the next Mario Kart?

If the fans want him, let them have their favorite. We got Ridley, every veteran back, a lot of desired game chances, almost every stage back, etc. I'm not saying he's a lock by any means but I feel genuinely solid on K. Rool. I would even go as far as to bet money he's in.

Relevance.

Means.

Nothing.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Relevance means pretty much anything people want it to mean in my opinion. You can't generalize the entire population of gamers who don't post on message boards and act as though there's a foolproof way to appeal to them through Smash. As an example, Kid Icarus Uprising sold 1 million and change in 2012, while DKC sold 9 million in 1994. Can you straightfacedly say Palutena is inherently going to appeal to more gamers than K. Rool, just because her big game was more recent? After all, it's not just new gamers you can draw in to Smash, but also old or inactive ones; you also can garner interest in future games by putting a character as playable and then using them later (see: the entire Fire Emblem franchise). There's also the added wrinkle of a character not necessarily being popular and alluring just because they exist in a new game. Like, yeah, little kids know who Monita is from Nintendo Land, but do they love her to the point of begging Mom and Dad to buy an entirely different fighting game to see more of her?

If the discrepancy between K. Rool and Dixie on the ballot was as big as it has been in the myriad fan polls, I don't think there's any chance Sakurai looks at the Rool votes and says "Oh? They're secretly voting for a DK Rep, so I'mma add Dixie." We didn't get a DK Rep costume...

...we got a K. Rool costume.

K. Rool could still miss out and Dixie could still become playable, but those are decisions that would be made independently from each other, not because the two entirely different characters are competing for a single spot. It's -because- they're being evaluated independently, and have different strengths to offer, that I'm about as optimistic as I can be about us getting both this time.

I kind of hope if K Rool does get in he gets the Gold Belly like his costume

Also having a tail. WTF is with the K Rools without tails. Looks weird

 

[Banjodorf]

To explain, Palutena and Shulk were both in recent games, so even if the general public didn’t know them, then they can go pick up the titles they were in with ease, maybe not Xenoblade for Wii but it got a 3DS port like a year later, so they would still be considered big characters. It’s like Roy in Melee, not a fan pick, but it clearly interested people in picking up the newest FE games.

Krool has basically been wiped out of Donkey Kong entirely at this point, so his inclusion makes no sense, why include a character you’ll never use again, as even if he sparks interest in DK, most people will find it difficult to find the games he’s a part of outside of virtual console, which doesn’t really help in selling the recent DK franchise to the general public if the new Donkey Kong inclusion is part of games from about 2 decades ago, but has no relevance elsewhere.

He’s not being “wiped out”. That continues the ill-informed narrative that Nintendo purposefully removed him. Technically his last game appearance was 10 years ago as himself, but he also had a trophy in both Smash Wii U and 3DS that referred to him as “To DK as Bowser is to Mario” in all languages.

Retro likely didn’t understand his popularity and decided not to use him. Don’t fall into the trap we used to. We used to theorize they’d never add the DKC trilogy to the VC because they’re trying to erase the Kremlings. A year or so later, they dropped all 3 on the Wii U VC, as well as Donkey Kong Land’s trilogy which hadn’t ever been re-released since the early 90s.

DK64 also appeared on the Wii U virtual console and this was a big deal. Don’t underestimate the power of ports bringing things back to relevance.

Kremlings appeared in Smash Run *alongside* Tikis, despite the latter being “relevant”. And the Mii costume used newly created HD assets for his iconic appearance that hasn’t been seen in decades.

Not to mention, he got referenced in Mario Odyssey, unlike the more relevant, recent DK villains.

Besides, relevance is hardly a factor when Sakurai continually talks about wanting to add Geno.