King Dedede - the game's best character?

[~ Gheb ~]

This is not a joke topic

If been looking deeper into King Dedede, his playstyle, his Metagame and I played him for a good while now and I've come to the conclusion, that he and not MK could be the best character in this game. Here are my reasons:

- His match-up vs MK

This is supposed to be in MKs favour. I disagree. I honestly think it's pretty even. Why? Because MK doesn't really limit Dededes options. MK can't zone him into a corner, since Dededes ftilt outranges all of MKs moves. MK can't punish his ftilt too well either. A grab means ~20% dmg (1 jab + bthrow) and MK lives to ~80% vs Dedede. One grab - which is easy to do for Dedede - takes 1/4 of MKs live. A fresh utilt / usmash = Ko at ~90% or even lower. MK can't gimp Dedede if he's smart, thanks to the SA frames. Against heavy characters MK does have KO issues, if he can't gimp them...

- His overall match-up's

OK, Dededes overall match-up's are arguably the worst from the top tier characters (except maybe ROB). But: does it really matter? How much does the disadvantage vs Zamus, Pit and Olimar hurt him, if he faces them almost never? With the exception of MK, he has the best match-up's vs top tier characters. The only one he loses to is Flaco. But if we assume the MK match-up to be true, he wins vs ROB, Snake and has a slight advantage vs Marth. Furthermore he goes even with Game and Watch (Hylian agreed on this and Needle of Juntah sais, it's GaWs 2nd hardest match-up) and wins vs Wario - one of the most overused characters in tournaments. Who cares about the little guys if you counter Snake and Wario and losing only to Falco?

- He has attributes, that "transcend" match-up numbers

Seriously. Ever got KOed by a Gordo? Yes? Then you should know, that Dedede has a few moves, that can turn every match-up easily in his favour again. He's getting pwnd by an 60% MK and has 120%. He has serious troubles. But: one Gordo and DDD has the advantage. I admit, that this is very luck based but there is other stuff, that works: get hit by an fsmash and you're dead. Unreliable? Yes. Impossible? Certainly not. Read your opponent well, learn how he rolls and you can hit him. It doesn't work too often but it's still an addition. And then we have Edgeguarding. I think Dedede is the best Edgeguard in this game, only tied (or slightly beaten) with MK. He can't fly that far but the power, range and the long lasting hitbox of his fair are nightmares for everyone, who tries to recover. It covers his entire front with a disjointed hitbox, that lasts longer than any edgeguard moves in the game. I can't think of many opponents, who can get through, if the Dedede does it correctly.

...

When people say MK has no exploitable weakness, they're right. However, he does have a weakness, even if it's not explitable: his weight. This is a small and possibly meaningless weakness but Dedede has no weakness either.

He's heavy - it takes forever to KO him.
He's fast - seriously, his tilis come out instantly, that's all he needs.
He outranges a lot - ftilt is soooo overranged. It outspaces even Marth.
Projectiles don't work - Waddle Dees stop them
He can't be gimped - 5 jumps and a recovery move with SA frames...

What am I trying to say? MKs strenghts outweight his weaknes by far. Dedede has no weakness to begin with and his strengths would also outweigh them by an overhelming amount...

Discuss

 

[Teh Future]

I agree completely. DDD is broken.

 

[CO18]

When DDD wins 1/3rd of tourneys let me know.

 

[CaliburChamp]

DDD is a character without much of a weakness. the only one that I can think of is his size making it more easier to combo him, however if its a DDD with great spacing and knows how to DI out of combos, now thats a scary thing which would partially cover his large size weakeness. And personally I'd put DDD along in the same tier as Snake and MK.

 

[napZzz]

Too bad DDD has terrible match ups like OLIMAR or a DEFENSIVE/SPAMMY meta. Like what can DDD do vs. tornado spam thats executed right? not much.

Where did you get the idea that DDD kills meta at 80%? His utilt doesn't even kill him even close that with good DI and its hard to land, let alone his smash attacks because of MK's small size and speed. He cant be gimped either.

And there is enough lag on ALL of DDD's moves. (EVEN GRABS) for meta to punish him.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Too bad DDD has terrible match ups like OLIMAR or a DEFENSIVE/SPAMMY meta. Like what can DDD do vs. tornado spam thats executed right? not much.

A tornado does about 11 or 12% dmg. It's still takes a lot of time for MK to get him into dangerous %, since MK can't gimp Dedede.

And about the Olimar comment, please read the OP....

Where did you get the idea that DDD kills meta at 80%? His utilt doesn't even kill him even close that with good DI and its hard to land, let alone his smash attacks because of MK's small size and speed. He cant be gimped either.

80% was an exagarration. The most important stuff is, that DDD can KO MK way earlie, than MK can KO Dedede

And there is enough lag on ALL of DDD's moves. (EVEN GRABS) for meta to punish him.

Meta can punish everything. Brawl is about punishing. Everything can be punished. Yes MK can be Shieldgrabbed by Dededes frightening grab range

 

[CO18]

Mk can gimp Dedede.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

^ How?

10char

 

[Emblem Lord]

Run off and spam dair like a ******** crack baby.

Anyway, DDD isn't the best. Not by a long shot. He has exploitable weaknesses.

Everyone in the game does actually.

Except MK.

Hmmmmm.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

What weakness are you reffering to?

 

[Emblem Lord]

Dedede does not kill that well. He has Bair and U-tilt.

Dedede is hard pressed to create situations where he can abuse it. He just kinda has to get lucky with it. He is better off edgeguarding.

Dedede is slow. Let's be realistic. He isn't super slow. But he is still slow. F-tilt is nice but it's only one move and doesn't do much damage.

He is a big target.

Waddle Dees can be ducked under and then he is wide open during his recovery frames.

There might be more. That's just off the top of my head.

 

[bludhoundz]

D3's Ftilt isn't that great...

It's really ranged so it's a good tool for spacing, but it has no vertical hitbox. MK's dair zones D3. You can push him into a corner with this. Marth's SH nair pretty much does the same thing here.

Short hop over it -> punish.

And with MK, spotdodge -> dash grab

His throws are sick, definitely. He has good kill power and he is heavy. However, he is slow, his shield sucks due to his size, and his aerial movement isn't too hot despite multiple jumps.

He isn't really severely outranged by anyone, but the fact that his attacks aren't LAGLESS like MK's suggests that he isn't nearly as broken. You can airdodge his fair over and over if he uses it at top speed (just in terms of speed, not considering mindgames and how dumb it would be to just spam fair if your opponent keeps airdodging it), but you can't do this to MK because he can throw out 2-3 aerials within one airdodge of yours.

Simply put:

Compared to MK,

Avoiding D3 is a lot easier. Hitting him is a lot easier (so is comboing him). Edgeguarding him is a lot more viable because you are less likely to be gimped, and he is easier to punish upon return. He is heavier and can kill you earlier. His WOP is not quite as good. His edgeguarding game isn't quite as good. He is a lot slower, his attacks are laggier. His CG owns.

Overall... MK is a better character. He has weaknesses, but his strengths outweigh them in his matchups vs ANY character. D3's weaknesses shine through in certain matchups despite his strengths. I do not think you can argue that D3 is a better character after considering this.

 

[napZzz]

MK can also shuttle loop DDD out of his UP b NON STOP to gimp him. ITs happened to me plenty of times. Nado is often SPAMMED when people use it, leading to 30-40%+ when used right in succesion.

 

[Teh Future]

lol another noob who thinks metanight is all special moves.