da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
yes. Im going to do KCs probably later today.
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KID's Analysis: NUBMER 3! KC24
- Thread starter da K.I.D.
- Start date
Kupo Rose
It's what my cutie mark is telling me ♫
Alright y
B_AWAL
Smash Master
There no new video -_-
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
ANALYSIS #3 KC24!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZlUQCu7ZVA&feature=plcp
This will be an analysis of game 2 of this set, starting at 5:10 by request.
5:20. Very good pressure, you have him in the air, and you pull a very smart frame trap into a jab combo.
5:28. You get hit by Zair to bomb to nair. The way to avoid things like that is to treat toon link as if you are fighting wario. Every time he touches you with something, DI and SDI up and away, so that you dont get extensive damage racked up on you.
5:31. Should have been an easy powershield on that arrow, you took 4% needlessly. Sure its only 4%, but how many times do you need to get hit with 'just 4%' before it becomes an actual issue? Those arrows are going to be flying at you all match, and if its ok to get hit by one once in a while, that one can turn into 3 or ten, and all of a sudden you look back on the match and youve take 100 damage in easily beatable arrows. That can change a match.
5:40. You need to work on your item control, catching things with an airdodge is not the business. Z grabs and instant tosses is where its at.
5:44. that spring dair was very tricky, and you have to do things like that. To throw your opponent off and keep him on his toes.
5:45 Hit him with his own bomb. Good.
5:47. Spindash from that range is not a good choice. Plus you didnt change the spindash follow up so he punished you out of shield for it. Dont spindash jump into an aerial if you know the opponent is going to shield it. after you hit them with the grounded spindash, you can instantly spring (what X does) you can instantly dair (what I do) you can keep rolling and turn around, or you can jump and than double jump to avoid the opponents punishment option.
5:51. Very good punish on the airdodge, but you mistimed the bair afterwards, which would have set you up for some strong land camp follow ups.
5:55. You got tricked. You thought you were doing something smart by waiting for the boomerang and going under it. But all that did was give Quest more time to prepare a counter attack for when you eventually came at him.
6:00. you punish the grab with a grab, smart choice, but since hes already in hookshot lag, hes preemptively mashing out of the grab he knows youre going for. Now its ok that he broke this grab, because you have to test your opponent to see how they react to certain situations. But now you have to use that knowledge in the future. because it will be important later on.
6:08. gotta be a bit tighter on your grab timing and spacing.
6:14. What makes this matchup hard. That bomb drop airdodge is very hard to deal with. You have to either, wait until the very last second to follow him and punish his landing (Dash attack is good for this) or you have to go up and follow him, but if you do that, you have to delay your aerial to the point that it will grab the bomb if he lets go of it. Also, dont airdodge if you dont have to, that just a general rule, and thats why you got hit with the follow up rang.
6:21. Just another arrow. You could have clanked that one with a fair.
6:23-6:35 Thats what im talking about! That was a number of very smart choices in a row. As you can see from when you were standing still before the down smash, that tells me you were very calm and patient about it. You spaced the down smash well. you read him well into the second grab and the spring gimp was super tricky. even I wasnt expecting that. Im going to steal that move. Thats how I can tell you are a smart player. You even grabbed the ledge to make sure. I approve. It was constant pressure that you thought out and executed.
6:35. You wait for him to come to you, while avoiding all his projectiles. Good, you are still calm, are you are being smart by not taking damage.
6:40. But then you get impatient and you rush in, which gets him free damage, and an easy airdodge punish (remember what I said about that?
6:53. Good punish from underneath.
6:56. Down tilt to up tilt made me cringe. Dont ever use up tilt, just grab, its a better set up and more damage.
7:00. Smart recovery, baited him into the spring dair. thats 11% and stage control.
7:04. Just another zair
7:07. Just another arrow. But you f tilted his attempt to follow up, which was good.
7:12. That was a very unique punish. If that was me, I would have just faired or up aired out of shield. He definitely had time to shield the ASC, but I think he was so taken aback by you jumping offstage after shielding an attack, you confused him long enough to leave himself open to a 16% punish, where as I would have only gotten ~10. But after that, you backed off, and I think you should have gone back in and applied more pressure.
7:20. Good move on holding the spindash, it makes people nervous and they airdodge into us, free damage. But you flopped the execution.
7:27. Once, again, an excellent show of patience in getting back to the stage, and avoiding his attempts to punish it, even through a trip.
7:42. Just another zair.
7:44. I BELIEVE, after the first hit of f smash, you can jump out of shield and either up air or bair tink. and you wont get hit by the second hit.
7:46. Once again you fell into a tink trap. You were so concerned about spacing out the voomerang, that you let him pull a bomb and advance the entire stage. Then since he had you in the corner, he throws the bomb at you. You are probably panicking a bit at this point so you catch it and try to jump away, at which point you arent thinking things through completely and he read you like a book and fairs you for the kill. That entire sequence happened because you were more concerned about the boomerang, than the tink.
7:50 You had a bit to recollect yourself, so you return to the evasive game. you go about 20 seconds without getting hit and than you scope him leaving himself open and run in for a grab. very smart play.
8:05. I dont know if you were trying to read the bomb explosion or the aerial from the ledge, but either way you made the right call and pushed him further offstage.
8:08. This, IMO, is the turning point of the match. You essentially perform a perfect textbook gimp. But then you mistime and easy edgehog. This would have put you up a full 2 stocks to 1. and essentially sealed the game for you. But since you messed up, something interesting happens. Note, you are at 0 percent when this happens.
8:15. Seeming a bit desperate for the kill, you go for a spindash bair and a down smash even though he is at too low a % for either to kill.
8:20. An early bair.
8:25. Running offstage for no real reason.
You Missed the kill and then started getting anxious, which took you out of the bait and punish style that you had gotten you the big lead in the first place in favor of too much aggression and extending yourself too far. So now
8:28. You take 3-4 bairs to the face, for doing something stupid.
8:37. just another zair.
8:45. He went for the toon link trap again, and got you focusing on the boomerang instead of him. luckily he didnt get anything out of it.
8:47. Another bad spindash. another bair out of shield.
8:57. You go back to the bait and punish mode, but it seems like youre more anxious than before, earlier you were being calm and graceful, now it just looks like youre waiting for an excuse to force your way in.
You dont get hit for about 30 seconds, but neither did he, and he ends up reading your roll for a fair at 9:30.
9:35. Smart move to make the spindash safe by preemptively springing, but you down aired the wrong way and got punished for it.
9:48. Very interesting way to get the kill. But at the same time. you could have been at 2 stock 0 damage when you got that kill, but now youre at 116, which is almost kill percent. You took all that damage because you mistimed a ledgegrab.
9:54. Good powershielding here, but you still ate an arrow.
10:00. Lol, I dont think you meant to footstool him, but it worked so w/e. and than you got him to whiff a grab. but you didnt learn from earlier when he broke it last time. You shouldnt have tried to pummel at that percent. You lost out n what could hve been a lot of damage.
10:10. you let him control too much of the space of the stage, so now he was able to pressure you to the ledge.
10:20. You panicked again and autopilloted an airdodge into an up smash. There was no reason to airdodge there, but you were scared already and he just waited for you to hang yourself.
After that, you got WAYYY too aggressive after you died. In the same position at the beginning of your first two stocks where you played patient and simply took the punishments that he gave you. Now, on your last stock, you get wayy too aggressive again, and walk face first into about 70%
11:00. Just a few more rinky dink projectiles that shouldnt have hit you.
11:10. He rides his momentum pretty much the entire stock, and then reads you like a book into an up smash. You should have lost right here. but you lucked out a bit. And the same thing that happened to you when you failed to kill him is about to swing back towards him now that he made the same mistake.
11:14. The next 10 seconds are a crazy combination of his fear making him do random bad things and your impeccable option coverage. You hit him during his bomb pull and got in position to smartly punish an airdodge. And since he panicked i think he tried to zair you, but messed up his spacing and got the ledge, and fell into the down smash anyway. None of which gave him his jump back. Perfectly timed a bair to frame trap him into a spring, and with out a jump, you fixed your earlier mistake and perfectly timed your ledge grab for the game.
To be fair, you probably shouldnt have won that game, because you got completely guard broken mentally between your 2nd and 3rd stocks, but he gave you one more chance than he should have, and you were able to compose yourself long enough to make a few smart moves and take the game. But the first half of the game you played incredibly intelligent. You made the matchup look like its not super terrible for us, and now I see what espy meant when he said that youre supposed to be aggressive against toon link. You have to be on him hard, but you pay a lot if you over extend yourself.
Conclusion.
Kid Craft24 is a player who is quite intelligent and has many of his consistent punishes and follow ups nailed down. He doesnt seem to make many technical errors, which is important for a sonic player. However, his main problems seem to stem from his youth and inexperience. He chooses options that arent always the best for the situation (seriously, down ever use up tilt), and he is not nearly as smart with his choices when he is on the defensive as he is when he is on the offensive. He tends to go on auto pilot when put in a defensive situation, which allows him to be read more easily. His level of play also seems to be highly dependant on his mood, similar to bloodcross. Playing better players more consistently will force him to improve in these areas. Once he begins to play as well when he is happy and offensive when he is upset and on the defensive, results will improve. Lots of potential.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZlUQCu7ZVA&feature=plcp
This will be an analysis of game 2 of this set, starting at 5:10 by request.
5:20. Very good pressure, you have him in the air, and you pull a very smart frame trap into a jab combo.
5:28. You get hit by Zair to bomb to nair. The way to avoid things like that is to treat toon link as if you are fighting wario. Every time he touches you with something, DI and SDI up and away, so that you dont get extensive damage racked up on you.
5:31. Should have been an easy powershield on that arrow, you took 4% needlessly. Sure its only 4%, but how many times do you need to get hit with 'just 4%' before it becomes an actual issue? Those arrows are going to be flying at you all match, and if its ok to get hit by one once in a while, that one can turn into 3 or ten, and all of a sudden you look back on the match and youve take 100 damage in easily beatable arrows. That can change a match.
5:40. You need to work on your item control, catching things with an airdodge is not the business. Z grabs and instant tosses is where its at.
5:44. that spring dair was very tricky, and you have to do things like that. To throw your opponent off and keep him on his toes.
5:45 Hit him with his own bomb. Good.
5:47. Spindash from that range is not a good choice. Plus you didnt change the spindash follow up so he punished you out of shield for it. Dont spindash jump into an aerial if you know the opponent is going to shield it. after you hit them with the grounded spindash, you can instantly spring (what X does) you can instantly dair (what I do) you can keep rolling and turn around, or you can jump and than double jump to avoid the opponents punishment option.
5:51. Very good punish on the airdodge, but you mistimed the bair afterwards, which would have set you up for some strong land camp follow ups.
5:55. You got tricked. You thought you were doing something smart by waiting for the boomerang and going under it. But all that did was give Quest more time to prepare a counter attack for when you eventually came at him.
6:00. you punish the grab with a grab, smart choice, but since hes already in hookshot lag, hes preemptively mashing out of the grab he knows youre going for. Now its ok that he broke this grab, because you have to test your opponent to see how they react to certain situations. But now you have to use that knowledge in the future. because it will be important later on.
6:08. gotta be a bit tighter on your grab timing and spacing.
6:14. What makes this matchup hard. That bomb drop airdodge is very hard to deal with. You have to either, wait until the very last second to follow him and punish his landing (Dash attack is good for this) or you have to go up and follow him, but if you do that, you have to delay your aerial to the point that it will grab the bomb if he lets go of it. Also, dont airdodge if you dont have to, that just a general rule, and thats why you got hit with the follow up rang.
6:21. Just another arrow. You could have clanked that one with a fair.
6:23-6:35 Thats what im talking about! That was a number of very smart choices in a row. As you can see from when you were standing still before the down smash, that tells me you were very calm and patient about it. You spaced the down smash well. you read him well into the second grab and the spring gimp was super tricky. even I wasnt expecting that. Im going to steal that move. Thats how I can tell you are a smart player. You even grabbed the ledge to make sure. I approve. It was constant pressure that you thought out and executed.
6:35. You wait for him to come to you, while avoiding all his projectiles. Good, you are still calm, are you are being smart by not taking damage.
6:40. But then you get impatient and you rush in, which gets him free damage, and an easy airdodge punish (remember what I said about that?
6:53. Good punish from underneath.
6:56. Down tilt to up tilt made me cringe. Dont ever use up tilt, just grab, its a better set up and more damage.
7:00. Smart recovery, baited him into the spring dair. thats 11% and stage control.
7:04. Just another zair
7:07. Just another arrow. But you f tilted his attempt to follow up, which was good.
7:12. That was a very unique punish. If that was me, I would have just faired or up aired out of shield. He definitely had time to shield the ASC, but I think he was so taken aback by you jumping offstage after shielding an attack, you confused him long enough to leave himself open to a 16% punish, where as I would have only gotten ~10. But after that, you backed off, and I think you should have gone back in and applied more pressure.
7:20. Good move on holding the spindash, it makes people nervous and they airdodge into us, free damage. But you flopped the execution.
7:27. Once, again, an excellent show of patience in getting back to the stage, and avoiding his attempts to punish it, even through a trip.
7:42. Just another zair.
7:44. I BELIEVE, after the first hit of f smash, you can jump out of shield and either up air or bair tink. and you wont get hit by the second hit.
7:46. Once again you fell into a tink trap. You were so concerned about spacing out the voomerang, that you let him pull a bomb and advance the entire stage. Then since he had you in the corner, he throws the bomb at you. You are probably panicking a bit at this point so you catch it and try to jump away, at which point you arent thinking things through completely and he read you like a book and fairs you for the kill. That entire sequence happened because you were more concerned about the boomerang, than the tink.
7:50 You had a bit to recollect yourself, so you return to the evasive game. you go about 20 seconds without getting hit and than you scope him leaving himself open and run in for a grab. very smart play.
8:05. I dont know if you were trying to read the bomb explosion or the aerial from the ledge, but either way you made the right call and pushed him further offstage.
8:08. This, IMO, is the turning point of the match. You essentially perform a perfect textbook gimp. But then you mistime and easy edgehog. This would have put you up a full 2 stocks to 1. and essentially sealed the game for you. But since you messed up, something interesting happens. Note, you are at 0 percent when this happens.
8:15. Seeming a bit desperate for the kill, you go for a spindash bair and a down smash even though he is at too low a % for either to kill.
8:20. An early bair.
8:25. Running offstage for no real reason.
You Missed the kill and then started getting anxious, which took you out of the bait and punish style that you had gotten you the big lead in the first place in favor of too much aggression and extending yourself too far. So now
8:28. You take 3-4 bairs to the face, for doing something stupid.
8:37. just another zair.
8:45. He went for the toon link trap again, and got you focusing on the boomerang instead of him. luckily he didnt get anything out of it.
8:47. Another bad spindash. another bair out of shield.
8:57. You go back to the bait and punish mode, but it seems like youre more anxious than before, earlier you were being calm and graceful, now it just looks like youre waiting for an excuse to force your way in.
You dont get hit for about 30 seconds, but neither did he, and he ends up reading your roll for a fair at 9:30.
9:35. Smart move to make the spindash safe by preemptively springing, but you down aired the wrong way and got punished for it.
9:48. Very interesting way to get the kill. But at the same time. you could have been at 2 stock 0 damage when you got that kill, but now youre at 116, which is almost kill percent. You took all that damage because you mistimed a ledgegrab.
9:54. Good powershielding here, but you still ate an arrow.
10:00. Lol, I dont think you meant to footstool him, but it worked so w/e. and than you got him to whiff a grab. but you didnt learn from earlier when he broke it last time. You shouldnt have tried to pummel at that percent. You lost out n what could hve been a lot of damage.
10:10. you let him control too much of the space of the stage, so now he was able to pressure you to the ledge.
10:20. You panicked again and autopilloted an airdodge into an up smash. There was no reason to airdodge there, but you were scared already and he just waited for you to hang yourself.
After that, you got WAYYY too aggressive after you died. In the same position at the beginning of your first two stocks where you played patient and simply took the punishments that he gave you. Now, on your last stock, you get wayy too aggressive again, and walk face first into about 70%
11:00. Just a few more rinky dink projectiles that shouldnt have hit you.
11:10. He rides his momentum pretty much the entire stock, and then reads you like a book into an up smash. You should have lost right here. but you lucked out a bit. And the same thing that happened to you when you failed to kill him is about to swing back towards him now that he made the same mistake.
11:14. The next 10 seconds are a crazy combination of his fear making him do random bad things and your impeccable option coverage. You hit him during his bomb pull and got in position to smartly punish an airdodge. And since he panicked i think he tried to zair you, but messed up his spacing and got the ledge, and fell into the down smash anyway. None of which gave him his jump back. Perfectly timed a bair to frame trap him into a spring, and with out a jump, you fixed your earlier mistake and perfectly timed your ledge grab for the game.
To be fair, you probably shouldnt have won that game, because you got completely guard broken mentally between your 2nd and 3rd stocks, but he gave you one more chance than he should have, and you were able to compose yourself long enough to make a few smart moves and take the game. But the first half of the game you played incredibly intelligent. You made the matchup look like its not super terrible for us, and now I see what espy meant when he said that youre supposed to be aggressive against toon link. You have to be on him hard, but you pay a lot if you over extend yourself.
Conclusion.
Kid Craft24 is a player who is quite intelligent and has many of his consistent punishes and follow ups nailed down. He doesnt seem to make many technical errors, which is important for a sonic player. However, his main problems seem to stem from his youth and inexperience. He chooses options that arent always the best for the situation (seriously, down ever use up tilt), and he is not nearly as smart with his choices when he is on the defensive as he is when he is on the offensive. He tends to go on auto pilot when put in a defensive situation, which allows him to be read more easily. His level of play also seems to be highly dependant on his mood, similar to bloodcross. Playing better players more consistently will force him to improve in these areas. Once he begins to play as well when he is happy and offensive when he is upset and on the defensive, results will improve. Lots of potential.
Kupo Rose
It's what my cutie mark is telling me ♫
Good stufffff
I think I actually learned some something. Nice.
I think I actually learned some something. Nice.
kid craft 24/sonic master
Smash Lord
Thanks, i'll take this into consideration a lot. Hopefully i can iron out all those errors you pointed out, welp back to the lab for me.
B_AWAL
Smash Master
Yay! A new 1!
Kupo Rose
It's what my cutie mark is telling me ♫
Wonder who's next.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
depends who puts up another video.
Kupo Rose
It's what my cutie mark is telling me ♫
True Blue should put his up imo.
JMan8891
Halfrican-American
Im trying to stop in Omaha to play this weekend whole en route to SD. If I can get some friendlies recorded, I'll post. I just don't think anyone has rec equipment
True Blue
Smash Lord
Huh? Me? lol. Which one the good one or the BAAAAAAAD one lol. Personally I didn't think about bothering to put the new one up here for critique just cause recently I have been a little on the "I don't need feedback on my play style!" but if I should here is the video.
Hopefully the correct one that I assumed you meant I should throw up here Kupo. lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bkj8yPKsT-M
Take your time though, I am in no rush.
Hopefully the correct one that I assumed you meant I should throw up here Kupo. lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bkj8yPKsT-M
Take your time though, I am in no rush.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
I've decided that I'm going to do something very special the next chance that I get.
If you guys thought I was being harsh on you, that was nothing compared to how merciless I'm going to be on my next critique. My next analysis will be on none other than...
myself! K.I.D.Goggles
If you guys thought I was being harsh on you, that was nothing compared to how merciless I'm going to be on my next critique. My next analysis will be on none other than...
myself! K.I.D.Goggles
True Blue
Smash Lord
Actually almost missed the end of that cause I thought it was the post thing stating who posted the message and didn't realize it was your message. lol
TheAwesomefroggy
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2012
- Messages
- 345
What would you say if you used u-tilt?
True Blue
Smash Lord
"DIE SPACE ANIMAL!"
Lol.
Lol.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
If I remember this, Im actually going to do my self analysis tonight.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
Ill have a chance to do this again tomorrow evening. But as you all can clearly tell, my memory is awful. So its a toss up.
Also, I didn't catch it from KID's analysis of KC in his post, but something I wanted to add as a small annotation:
Your shield is both your best friend and your worst enemy in this match up. Sonic has the speed and agility to outmaneuver Toon Link's projectile game for the most part, so your shield should be used sparingly as a defense mechanism against them. Favoring his dashing, sideBs, and short hops/z-catches gives you exponentially more mobility against the spam, and flexibility in options on how to counter him.
Moving about the stage also forces him to constantly reposition himself, and with the precision and space Toon Link demands in order to set up his walls, that grants Sonic a ton of opportunities to go in and punish him.
Staying in the shield is hazardous because it allows him free pressure that could turn into a shield poke, and it brings you to a complete stop. You do not want to be staying put against a character who has so many ranged items. It felt like at points, you started to rely on it too hard, and Quest picked up on the habit and realized that you were extremely hesitant to try anything outside of shielding the projectiles to get at him. As a result, you gave him a lot of breathing room for a majority of the match.
I'm definitely not saying to avoid the shield. At some points, you will absolutely have to do it. All I can suggest is to try doing it less so you can keep your option select broad and unpredictable. Or at the very least, difficult to anticipate.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
give me a vid of his. I will have time to do it tonight, but theres no way to be sure I'll remember. But youre right, I will probably have some better footage at impulse.
Jim Morrison
Smash Authority
Do me, because I definitely went against a lot of what I just said in response to that TL video in this TL video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiB5I5zfRnM
lol
lol
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
Hmmm... I dont know if I want to do another TL video... or a video of one of the only 2 people that I will openly admit are better than me.
But on the other hand, doing my own video would be like 2-3 months old at this point...
I might just do both.
But on the other hand, doing my own video would be like 2-3 months old at this point...
I might just do both.
MeekSpeedy
Smash Ace
I DEMAND MORE KID ANALYSIS
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
gimme a vid thats less than a month old.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
Are you also playing sonic as well?
Actually I just rewatched it and I think the embarrassment on game 3 was just the only thing I could remember.
edit: whenever I take that first game off of someone alot better than I am, you guys always seem completely unphased. I always knew Gnes and Razer were sandbagging of course and wouldn't lose game 3, but I'm always impressed by how people like you, infinity, illmatic etc. never let it get to you. I mean, I'm awful and if I beat you I'd never let you or anyone else forget it, so the risks are great...
edit: whenever I take that first game off of someone alot better than I am, you guys always seem completely unphased. I always knew Gnes and Razer were sandbagging of course and wouldn't lose game 3, but I'm always impressed by how people like you, infinity, illmatic etc. never let it get to you. I mean, I'm awful and if I beat you I'd never let you or anyone else forget it, so the risks are great...
I can't speak for Gnes or Razer or anyone else for that matter, but I kinda just move on. I know in the back of my mind that I only have one chance, but I just remind myself to relax and that I'll be fine no matter what.
I just tell myself to have fun and it puts me at ease.
When I was fighting Denti last weekend, never once in my mind was I actually thinking about winning. I was mostly playing to just enjoy the fight, but I was also aiming to prove that the months haven't had a toll on my ability to play at a high level.
As long as I can show people what I can really pull off, then I'm satisfied.
I just tell myself to have fun and it puts me at ease.
When I was fighting Denti last weekend, never once in my mind was I actually thinking about winning. I was mostly playing to just enjoy the fight, but I was also aiming to prove that the months haven't had a toll on my ability to play at a high level.
As long as I can show people what I can really pull off, then I'm satisfied.
kid craft 24/sonic master
Smash Lord
If only i could tell myself that and actually beat people -_-
Any of you skilled Sonic players going to be at the Tournament in Denton, TX? I've always wanted to main Sonic but never took the time to really learn him. I would like some tips regarding the general direction to go with and what to practice to be a high level Sonic player.
http://smashboards.com/threads/apex...houston-october-5th-2013-denton-texas.340400/
http://smashboards.com/threads/apex...houston-october-5th-2013-denton-texas.340400/
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
Id love to watch some of espys recent stuff.
Also quest just sent me so recent matches of KC24 so ill be getting tothose soon too.
Also quest just sent me so recent matches of KC24 so ill be getting tothose soon too.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
I don't feel qualified to do an analysis on another sonics doubles match. Everyone plays doubles differently