KGD - The Kewkky Thread! - Kirby's Wasteland: Dead Social

[Kewkky]

I got a present for Christmas! I bet nobody else got one.

 

[WindMajor]

Happy Holidays, Kirbies! Hope you guys enjoy it.

 

[Sage JoWii]

Merry Christmas guys.

 

[~automatic]

Merry Chistmas Kirbies!
What y'all get?

That's worthy of a quote... but I just have to add that just because there's no right or wrong way to play Smash doesn't mean that there aren't a lot of conventions and precedents that guide us in which customizable rules to use or discard for the sake of a competitive community. XD

Eh, that's true. At any rate, I stand by my other posts.

 

[BBQTV]

im alittle upset casue i cant play epic yarn

in fact im so upset that i came here to ask help

 

[Asdioh]

Why can't you play epic yarn?

i was going to get my brother kirby return to dreamland for christmas but it cost $50 and my parents said he already got a bunch of presents so i figured it could wait :O

which reminds me, neither of us got a videogame this year. huh.
fine by me, i didn't really want anything. i got a book i asked for, woohoo!

 

[BBQTV]

well i fixed the problem with some help so i can but epic yarn

 

[Vinylic.]

I had a great nostalgia on Christmas day when I played Kirby's dreamland again.
Merry belated Christmas guys. Now lets get crunk on new years.

Well, not crunk. Just excited.

 

[MikeKirby]

I got chocolate for Christmas!

 

[~automatic]

I got candy as well.

 

[BBQTV]

is it possible to die in epic yarn? cause i didnt die once lol

 

[Kappy]

No, you just lose gems when you get hit in Epic Yarn. LOL.

 

[Vinylic.]

Then it's just like playing warioland?

Wow, I didn't even know.

 

[~automatic]

That sounds... nice.

 

[TaterSalad0811]

I got The Complete Sherlock Holmes (Volume 2), Skyward Sword, The World Ends With You (very trippy, by the way), a Platinum League promotion, and a leather (might be fake leather, but I don't really care) executive chair.

LIKE A BOSS (literally).

 

[WindMajor]

Haha, you should see my room, Tater.

OR SHOULD I SAY OFFICE?!?! LOL.

 

[t!MmY]

I got everything on my list and more. -^_^-
(I think Kirby's Christmas list and my Christmas list are almost exactly the same)

 

[~automatic]

So you got a ton of food? Because that's what Kirby would ask for.

 

[Vinylic.]

I saw the new mu chart and I caught up on reading your thoughts on K v. MK and Snake, kewkky.

Very awesome job.

 

[~automatic]

Where is this new chart? I'm too lazy to go look for it.

 

[Vinylic.]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=316173

 

[~automatic]

Interesting.

 

[Vinylic.]

So here's the chart.

:brawl: :metaknightbrawl: :icsbrawl: :marthbrawl: :olimarbrawl: :falcobrawl: ikachubrawl: :snakebrawl: :diddybrawl: :dededebrawl: :wariobrawl: :zssbrawl: :gwbrawl: :toonlinkbrawl: :lucariobrawl: itbrawl: eachbrawl: :wolfbrawl: :kirbybrawl: :sheildamini: :foxbrawl: :sheikbrawl: :robbrawl: :yoshibrawl: :sonicbrawl: :ikebrawl: :dkbrawl: :luigibrawl: tbrawl: :nessbrawl: :mariobrawl: :samusbrawl: :lucasbrawl: :bowserbrawl: :falconbrawl: :jigglypuffbrawl: :linkbrawl: :zeldabrawl: :ganonbrawl: + - 0 # Diff
:kirbybrawl: -2 -2 -1 -2 0 0 -1 0 0 -1 -1 -1 -1 0 0 0 0 :kirbybrawl: 2 1 2 0 1 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 1 2 1 2 2 2 2 2 16 9 12 12 +1

-2:
-1:
0:
1:
2:

Any thoughts for the kirbys here?

 

[Conviction]

Here's my thoughts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xnyqSVcr0o&feature=player_embedded

 

[Kappy]

Everything looks good - great, even - except for Falcon, Ganondorf, and Jigglypuff. I just can't let them be any less than a +3. Too bad it won't be changed. LOL. At least they put IC's at -2.

 

[HyperKeeby]

-2:
-1:
0:
1:
2:

My thoughts: I'm only going to comment on the -2, and things I disagree on.

: (-2) Agreed...this is a difficult matchup, I dunno. It's given ICs have a really big upperhand, but it's not impossible to win.

: (-2) Agreed...there was a time where people thought this was an even matchup, but in reality, MK is just too good.

: (-2) I'm agreeing with this one because I hate the matchup so much. I used to be good at it, but now I absolutely hate playing against Olimar...don't want to go so in depth though.

: (-2) I disagree here only because GnW just destroys Kirby. Sure, he's predictable, but I don't think it matters here when he just beats Kirby. IDK, I need help on the matchup honestly, but it's just ridiculous how much I hate GnW to the point where I'll go a different character.

: (0) I do agree that Kirby has an advantage, but it should only be slightly. This matchup should be an even one, I don't think they both have any options that shut down each other, honestly. Kirby might be able to rack up damage quickly, but Ike kills Kirby early regardless, usual matchup really. If I were to relate it to any matchup, it would be like King DDD. Kirby has the slight advantage IMO, but it's considered even because of several reasons.

(2) If I'm seeing Lucas at 2 and Bowser at 1, then I think something is wrong here. Lucas has the constant PK fire at the very least, but Bowser just has killing potential, really. Bowser is an easy matchup considering his extremely large hitbox...and I think Kirby shuts down some of his better options, really.

: (3) I think it should have stayed at 3. This is probably the easiest matchup in the world for me. I dunno, I have never had trouble with Sheik, and I've never looked into the matchup or know how sheik works. The matchup is just incredibly easy, Zelda however is fine at 2.

(3) What? This is probably the easiest matchup next to sheik, I think Kirby completely shuts down Jiggly except for a few things. On top of that all of Kirby's smashes kills Jiggs mad early.

Everything else I'm fine with.

 

[t!MmY]

-2:
-1:
0:
1:
2:

Any thoughts for the kirbys here?

Meta Knight should be -3. He's not nearly as frustrating as 'easier' match-ups, but he definitely falls in the category of "-3: large disadvantage/hard countered". He's basically an S-tier Kirby.


I want to say Wario should be an even match-up, but it's just so easy for him to KO Kirby at practically any percent... so yeah, -1 looks about right. But then that makes me think Snake should be -2 because he has even better KO options on Kirby plus grenades and those massive damage-dealing tilts.


I think Zero Suit could be in the 0 match-up also. I admit that any advantage would probably go to ZSS (since she's faster and has better spacing options), so I'm not too against her being in the -1 category.


It seems like too many characters were dumped into this category. Diddy and DK should definitely go up.
ROB should be -1.
The rest are debatable or close enough to even that they can stay where they are.


These could be +3 in Kirby's favor. Falcon at least is arguably +3.
Even though Ganon's easy to combo and edgeguard he at least has massive hits to use on Kirby which could justify the +2 position he has instead of a full-blown +3.
There's so little representation for Jigglypuff that the match-up itself is in question. -2 seems like a good place for her... +3 just seems too much considering she's a Kirby clone with worse ground options and faster air control.

 

[Vinylic.]

I was thinking that :falcobrawl: should be in -1.

But I feel as if he's between 0 and -1.

 

[t!MmY]

: (-2) I'm agreeing with this one because I hate the matchup so much. I used to be good at it, but now I absolutely hate playing against Olimar...don't want to go so in depth though.

Things that counter Kirby: range, camping, Star KOs. Olimar has it all, plus a really good pivot grab.
Olimar counters Kirby.

: (-2) I disagree here only because GnW just destroys Kirby. Sure, he's predictable, but I don't think it matters here when he just beats Kirby.

G&W is a really tough match-up for Kirby because of his disjoints, killer Smash Attacks and excellent vertical recovery. It *is* possible for Kirby to get his hits in, but it requires excellent spacing and timing as well as knowing the proper responses. G&W is arguably -2.

: (0) I do agree that Kirby has an advantage, but it should only be slightly.

I think it depends on the skill level of the players. At low levels of play Ike probably dominates (lots of smash attacks), above that it seems like Kirby has a slight advantage. Beyond that it's pretty even with both players having to rely on their most reliable attacks while throwing out mix-ups to take the other by surprise.

(2) If I'm seeing Lucas at 2 and Bowser at 1, then I think something is wrong here.

Agreed. Kirby has no grab release shenanigans on Lucas, otherwise it would make sense. I would even go so far to say that Ganon plays the 'powerhouse' role better against Kirby than Bowser does.

: (3) I think it should have stayed at 3. This is probably the easiest matchup in the world for me.

While Sheik might not be great against Kirby she's definitely not his easiest match-up. I'm not saying you don't have an easy time against Sheik, but I am going to ask which Sheik players you've played against. I'm going to say that Zelda's an easier match-up than Sheik is.

(3) What? This is probably the easiest matchup next to sheik, I think Kirby completely shuts down Jiggly except for a few things. On top of that all of Kirby's smashes kills Jiggs mad early.[/url]
Sure I'll agree that Kirby has a lot of good options to use against Jigglypuff... but I don't think you should bother mentioning landing Smash attacks on people as a main basis of match-ups. XD

 

[t!MmY]

I was thinking that :falcobrawl: should be in -1.
But I feel as if he's between 0 and -1.

I think I'd be fine with a -0.5
XD

 

[Vinylic.]

lol, sounds good.

 

[MikeKirby]

So here's the chart.

:brawl: :metaknightbrawl: :icsbrawl: :marthbrawl: :olimarbrawl: :falcobrawl: ikachubrawl: :snakebrawl: :diddybrawl: :dededebrawl: :wariobrawl: :zssbrawl: :gwbrawl: :toonlinkbrawl: :lucariobrawl: itbrawl: eachbrawl: :wolfbrawl: :kirbybrawl: :sheildamini: :foxbrawl: :sheikbrawl: :robbrawl: :yoshibrawl: :sonicbrawl: :ikebrawl: :dkbrawl: :luigibrawl: tbrawl: :nessbrawl: :mariobrawl: :samusbrawl: :lucasbrawl: :bowserbrawl: :falconbrawl: :jigglypuffbrawl: :linkbrawl: :zeldabrawl: :ganonbrawl: + - 0 # Diff
:kirbybrawl: -2 -2 -1 -2 0 0 -1 0 0 -1 -1 -1 -1 0 0 0 0 :kirbybrawl: 2 1 2 0 1 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 1 2 1 2 2 2 2 2 16 9 12 12 +1

-2:
-1:
0:
1:
2:

Any thoughts for the kirbys here?

Great great great! I don't really mind the numbers they give on our + matches, we win and thats it, hah. The list chart looks right on to me except for maybe one match.

I think Wario is an even match-up. I see many a reckless Kirby just get ***** by getting fooled by Wario's jump-at-you-double jump-away-from you tactics. Up tilt and back airs are beautiful in this match-up (thank you Kewkky). As long as you stay away from being on top of him in air and being aware of your damage and your position from him, you can live/avoid most of his KO moves.

G&W is no less than a -1. Yeah, he's annoying but keep a cool head. His b-air is easily DI-able and punished. Our tilts are faster and clank with his smashes. One has to just worry about not getting grabbed and staying grounded.

Marth is no less than -1 and optimistically I feel it's even. What Jo-Wii said is right, b-air does beat f-air (depending who swung first). It's amazing once you find the right timing and spacing! He's KO'ed at early percents and his up-b carries RCO lag, which sets up great for a KO. Heck we can gimp him and edgehog him. Yeah, he can KO us early... If he tippers but meh.

Other than that, it's about time Snake got bunked down to -1.

 

[Vinylic.]

Well you see, this video here is what basically makes snake -1.
http://youtu.be/9NkiY8YY5RE?t=3m46s



And it's good to know that kirby wouldn't have much trouble as the mu is from -2 to +2.
It's more accurate that way.

 

[Sage JoWii]

So here's the chart.

:brawl: :metaknightbrawl: :icsbrawl: :marthbrawl: :olimarbrawl: :falcobrawl: ikachubrawl: :snakebrawl: :diddybrawl: :dededebrawl: :wariobrawl: :zssbrawl: :gwbrawl: :toonlinkbrawl: :lucariobrawl: itbrawl: eachbrawl: :wolfbrawl: :kirbybrawl: :sheildamini: :foxbrawl: :sheikbrawl: :robbrawl: :yoshibrawl: :sonicbrawl: :ikebrawl: :dkbrawl: :luigibrawl: tbrawl: :nessbrawl: :mariobrawl: :samusbrawl: :lucasbrawl: :bowserbrawl: :falconbrawl: :jigglypuffbrawl: :linkbrawl: :zeldabrawl: :ganonbrawl: + - 0 # Diff
:kirbybrawl: -2 -2 -1 -2 0 0 -1 0 0 -1 -1 -1 -1 0 0 0 0 :kirbybrawl: 2 1 2 0 1 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 1 2 1 2 2 2 2 2 16 9 12 12 +1

-2:
-1:
0:
1:
2:

Any thoughts for the kirbys here?

From the looks of it, everything seems about right. Maybe a few people that could be argued up or down a number but I see enough evidence for this chart's standings to say it's mostly, if not completely, fair.

I'd personally lobby for Marth to be a 0, Fox to be a 2, and Falcon to be a 3 - but that's simply my thoughts on specific match-ups. I can see why they're at where there at though, and where majority would lean towards one number vs another.

Good job Kirby chart people.

 

[Kewkky]

Like I said in the MU chart thread, the iffy numbrs are probably the ones we had to compromise, or the ones where the people debating would not have enough experience/be too biased to budge. Like with the Ganon MU, it was voted as a +3 among the Kirbies (I voted a +2 so I didn't help with the discussion against Ganon), but when it came time to discuss Ganon, only one person showed up (falln) and he was too biased to listen to what they said, and also was talking as if he didn't have good MU experience. So I stepped in and we settled on a +2.

 

[Kappy]

Huh... I never got any updates or news or anything about when the next discussions were... I would've had so much input on the Ganon MU. Oh well. LOL. It still looks good - I only disagree with a few characters.

 

[falln]

Like I said in the MU chart thread, the iffy numbrs are probably the ones we had to compromise, or the ones where the people debating would not have enough experience/be too biased to budge. Like with the Ganon MU, it was voted as a +3 among the Kirbies (I voted a +2 so I didn't help with the discussion against Ganon), but when it came time to discuss Ganon, only one person showed up (falln) and he was too biased to listen to what they said, and also was talking as if he didn't have good MU experience. So I stepped in and we settled on a +2.

ouch

ill still attest to the fact that tearbear's ganon is easiliy top 3 ganons in the country
and only one person showed up on ganons side and he was far more biased than i am

if Ganon has the lead and stays away from Kirby, Kirby risks a lot going in like that. Ganon, on the other hand, risks very little challenging Kirby's BAir walls

Kirby below Ganon is a very minor threat, as if Kirby's haphazard in trying to juggle us, we can wizkick and kill you guys ar around 100%. Especially on platforms, as with Ganon's Herculean range with his aerials, Kirby has no options but to run away.

yup

-----


but to not leave on a sour note i said at the beginning that i didnt want to get too invested in matchups that didnt really matter which i guess i didnt because the ikes and ganons and captain falcons really bugged me because they just spout **** until you get mad and look dumb because of salty posts but all the matchups that i consider important enough to be listed are listed just fine EXCEPT

i consider to all be even but the rest of the kirby panel disagreed from the getgo

 

[Kewkky]

I don't mean it in a bad way, falln. You helped in a lot of MUs! I'm just saying that on that one specific MU it seemed like you didn't know much about what Ganon wants Kirby to do. I've played DLA and I've gotten fooled by Ganon's speed at times and such.

Kappy, check the boards. The Yoshis are doing something with some of their MUs, including Kirby's. You can help out! I can't cuz I'm getting roaming charges by posting these replies and debating would take lots of time.



Also falln, I used to agree with you about Wario... until I found out that not counting the fart time with Wario means you die fast unexpectedly. We're even everywhere with him, hands down... until he reads a roll/dodge/attack and punishes with a fart.

Marth and TL I guess is because we all have different experiences. I used to play with Sheikant, contender for best player in PR and TL/MK mainer (now solo TL again iirc), been playing with him A LOT for as long as Brawl's been out, so I trusted my experience. On Marth I don't have much experience so I just went with the majority of the kirbies' votes.

 

[Kappy]

I'll do that once the holidays are over, then! LOL.

 

[falln]

generally when i do kirby v wario once that fart hits kill power i run away or plank or whatever until the fart is maxed or until its burned. giving up stage control for a little is worth the trade imo

but one of my better characters is also dedede so idk id just use him if i know theyll stay wario because its so easy