Ken Combo: Best against...

[rubiksfriend]

Does the patented Ken Combo work well against anyone if the player is skilled enough, or mainly on floaties?

 

[Cereal Rabbit]

The Ken Combo works on any character. It just takes timing and hand movements.

 

[lolomgwtfbbq]

Works on anyone.
Just as Cereal says, it takes time and practice.

P.S. You obviously stole my sig idea.

 

[Reese]

I dont think it will work on jiggs. But im not sure.

 

[Ace83]

to me, the most susceptible players are mario, doc, roy, link, sheik, ganon.. basically the medium-ish floaters.. usually someones damage is in the 50-100 range to pull it off as well. check out kizzu :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiiMxmdYNMg

 

[technomancer]

It also takes bad DI from most characters

 

[Ace83]

It also takes bad DI from most characters

Bad DI makes it very easy yes, but it can be accomplished on many characters with even the best DI given the situation (they may have to be at a certain percent damage though).

 

[aMtt]

I figure this is a good thread to ask this in, if I'm playing Marth, and getting SHDFaired, should I be DIing away from the other marth?

 

[Vincent Vega]

Yeah it only works if the person DIs wrong. Otherwise it doesn't work often at all.

 

[Ace83]

Yeah it only works if the person DIs wrong. Otherwise it doesn't work often at all.

lmao.. NOT true.

 

[Vincent Vega]

What character does it work on if they DI properly big guy?

 

[Ace83]

you are talking about a combo that can be hit under so many circumstances.. it depends on the character, their damage, when and where they get hit with the first fair, whether the fair is tipper or not, and how marth DI's (keep in mind that the marth can DI himself and often compensate for evasive DI). Let me just say that there are many characters that this can be done with, probably with bowser at the top of the list.

 

[Somebody]

You can ken combo anyone. Sure its possible to get out of if you mash DI correctly or something but every character can be ken combo'd. If you think about it anything can be DIed "properly" out of.

 

[JDZL]

lmao.. NOT true.

while i wouldn't say that "it doesn't work often at all", it only works if the opponent di.s incorrectly (including lack of di). there is no character/percentage that this combo works on 100%, because di changes it.

 

[Vincent Vega]

Well I guess I'm just used to playing with people who know how to DI so I don't pull off Ken combos often. Ace, maybe you should just main Doc. ^_^

 

[Eggz]

Pretty sure people DI in so they dont get easily ledgeguarded or fsmashed or something dumb and marthy. The Ken combo is great because if they DI in, you get a dair, and if they DI away, you get an easy edgeguard.

It's called perfect setups.

 

[NeighborhoodP]

Nah, if you DI away they're high and in the air so they can usually come back pretty easily, they just have a fair bit of damage tacked onto them.

 

[Ace83]

Well I guess I'm just used to playing with people who know how to DI so I don't pull off Ken combos often. Ace, maybe you should just main Doc. ^_^

I'm quite familiar with DI actually. The fact that you are saying that any character can get out of this combo (fair, DJ, dair) under any circumstances with proper DI is ridiculous. First of all the combo is done over the edge, DI'ing down can be dangerous for some of the fast falling characters (all of which are owned by marth's edge game anyway - leading back to what Eggz was saying about setups). DI'ing down can get you out of the combo at times, as marth's DJ sometimes will take him too high and the spike will miss; but this would only be when your opponents damage is considerably low (depending on the character). At higher damages most characters will be knocked high enough so that they will be spiked anyway. DI'ing left or right does not matter as much, as marth's DJ can be directed left or right to compensate for this (ie lets say you are trying to ken combo someone off the right side of FD - if they DI right, you should have good enough reaction time to DJ right (instead of straight up) and then still land the spike). If they DI left, you can DJ left and spike them (since marth's spike does not always send people straight down, but at and angle depending on what part of the sword you hit them with (in this case you would want to hit them with right side of the sweet that marth's dair does), they should still be sent off the stage (instead of ON the stage - if they hit the stage, you shouldn't have went for the combo unless you are closer to the edge) at a diagonal angle kind of like a backslash (\ lol). DI'ing up doesn't yield as noticeable of a difference in movement compared to the other 3 directions (imo), and would be the best help to floatier characters. However, marth's DJ has enough height to punish most characters anyway (i would never try to DI up). Once again, there many factors that come into play when doing this, with your opponents damage being the most important - i'd say almost every character has their own range of damage where they are susceptible to a properly excecuted ken combo from an experienced marth player. Do i know these exact figures?? No. That would be a question for m2k, but hopefully this clears up any confusion concerning what i meant earlier.

 

[Vincent Vega]

Lmao I read about the first line of that. Learn to not write one big blog when you wanna type bigger posts plz.

Otherwise it doesn't work often at all.

That means it never works? Hmmm.........

 

[Ace83]

Look man, i'm not trying to talk trash to you like you are to me. Lets not forget that you also stated "Yeah it only works if the person DIs wrong." You are a bit misled imho, and your posts that imply that the ken combo is rarely effective can really prevent both newcomers and intermediate players from attempting to master this very useful combo. The whole point to most of the threads on these forums (such as this one) is to learn through the advice of others is it not? So when i see someone make a statement such as the one you did intially, I feel that both sides of the argument should be expressed. An experienced marth player has a good idea as to when to (and when not to) go for the ken combo, as they have a good general idea of what the success rate may be, regardless of proper DI. I may be new to these forums, but I am not new to smash by any means, and i'd appreciate it if you would at least attempt to respect others' opinions, regardless of whether they are different than your own. Also, you may want to actually check out my last post, its really not that long and you may learn something. Its too bad we live on opposite coasts, otherwise I'd really be up for some friendlies sometime.

 

[battousai555]

Lmao I read about the first line of that. Learn to not write one big blog when you wanna type bigger posts plz.

Vincent, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you were trying to tell Ace to space longer posts so they are easier to read. I think Ace took it the wrong way because you put it rather bluntly.

 

[Vincent Vega]

Yeah battousai that's what I meant.

I never said one shouldn't go for a Ken Combo, all I said is if someone DI's properly you are most likely not gonna get it. I would say if someone DI's right you won't get it, but I could be wrong. Lol tbh I'm pretty sure you're not as good as you think you are, as the same for the people you play against. Don't take that statement as, "I'm better than you." I'm by no means good, I just get the advantage of living in a region with lots of good players.. I think if you played someone with better DI you'd understand where I'm coming from.

 

[Ace83]

The people i play with are very experienced with DI. Unfortunately, i do not know how to record matches aside from pointing a digital camera in front of the TV, which seems really ******** imo. I often play against a sheik/fox player, along with a very good link player that often win tournaments state-wide in NC, and the sheik player has attended tournaments across the east coast, some of which containing contestants such as PC chris, husband, and forward; and lately i have had the upper hand on him with several characters. Although i main marth, i often play with Doc, Ganondorf, Falcon, Fox, Falco, Link, Puff, and several others. For you to say that I am simply arrogant and am not good at smash is an ignorant statement, as you have never seen me play. The sole purpose for my posts is to help newcomers get better at this combo (because you're right in a way, it cannot always be landed successfully). The key to properly executing a ken combo is knowing when the time is right. The opportunity rarely spits in front of your shoes, however, so it is up to you to create the opportunity yourself via mindgames, fair combos, etc. so that it can be performed successfully (ie make it unavoidable). You can continue to criticize my skill level (which you know very little of), but it really gets you nowhere. Your attempts to get the last word in here are pretty futile, as you have little proof to back them up (which there is very little to begin with). I'm not trying to be harsh, but it really seems that you have had little experience with this combo. However, i respect your opinion, and you do have a point, i just feel that you need to play a bit more and you will realize what i'm talking about. No hard feelings bro.

 

[Vincent Vega]

.......Too looooong. Heh. Attending a tourny with someone good doesn't mean anything unless you actually play them. You say that's it's ignorant for me to assume you're not as good as you think you are because I've never seen you play, yet you say I need more experience with DI(wtf). But yeah that's all I read. It's all good though. Keep Ken combing! ^_^

 

[Buh]

I dont think it will work on jiggs. But im not sure.

I Ken Combo'd JesusFreak's puff in tourney before.

 

[Hylian]

You can't DI down...

 

[Ace83]

.......Too looooong. Heh. Attending a tourny with someone good doesn't mean anything unless you actually play them. You say that's it's ignorant for me to assume you're not as good as you think you are because I've never seen you play, yet you say I need more experience with DI(wtf). But yeah that's all I read. It's all good though. Keep Ken combing! ^_^

Hopefully you and I can make peace with this argument I never said "you need more experience with DI" To be honest, i rarely ken combo, my Fair combos usually end in an L-canceled Fair to Fsmash; basically because in order to Ken combo someone, you have to create a good setup, which is sometimes difficult when your opponent DI's correctly (credit given to you ) And i do play with very competitive players, i just haven't made it out to a tourney myself, i am working 30 hours a week and taking classes but i would like to attend one sometime! Please know that although i am confident in my opinion, I am not claiming that I know everything about this game by any means. I am willing to take advice from anyone on these forums and hopefully learn a bit myself, and actually i appreciate your input. KEN COMBO FTW! haha Happy New Year.

You can't DI down...

indeed you can.. crouch canceling (I use this example because everyone is familiar with it) is a similar example to a downward DI in many cases (for example, if you get upsmashed by fox when you are at about 80% you will not travel high enough to die unless you're jiggs or kirby i'm guessing). crouch cancelling is not necessarily a DI downward, but it behaves the same way. One can definitely DI down, it just doesn't show as much of a difference (as well as DI'ing up) as opposed to left and right. I can definitely see why you made this statement though. I could be wrong of course, i'll follow up on this later

 

[Vall3y]

if you di away from the fairs its much harder to ken combo you

 

[Ace83]

if you di away from the fairs its much harder to ken combo you

This is true, and at certain damages (and especially with certain characters) this DI will completely avoid the combo. However, i feel that an experienced marth player such as m2k, ken, azen, etc. would not attempt such a combo unless the conditions were just right.

 

[L1F3]

The Ken Combo. It. Works. On. Every. Character.

Things to take into consideration:
DI/bad DI
Anticipation
Damage
Floatiness
Timing
Spacing
Un/Tipped fair
Ability to even pull off the Ken Combo

The most important of these is the anticipation. If your opponent knows you may attempt the Ken Combo, the will DI the fair [regarding damage, floatiness, and spacing] and may OR may not thawrt the combo. However, if you bust out with it out of nowhere, it has a high chance of working due to the lack of the Five Ps=Prior Prevention Prevents Poor Performance, meaning that they did not see it coming, DI'd wrong and got Ken Combo'd.

Now then, an up DI from the fair means nothing if it's not tipped [considering damage and floatiness]. That means that you just set yourself up. To not set yourself up, DI away from the first fair [if you see it coming], which takes you farther from the Marth, and then DI which ever direction you choose. The Marth may be too far away to reach with the dair or not [damage plays a key factor here, as well as floatiness].

And yes, Ace83, people will not follow up the fair with the combo unless the conditions are indeed suitable. I personally don't try the Ken Combo unless I see a pattern with the opponent's DI to the fairs, but then again, I hate playing as Marth, yet I love the gayness of the broken range/Fsmash/grab/safeness/manly *** headband *coughtiaracough* ^_^

~L1F3

 

[Hylian]

Hopefully you and I can make peace with this argument I never said "you need more experience with DI" To be honest, i rarely ken combo, my Fair combos usually end in an L-canceled Fair to Fsmash; basically because in order to Ken combo someone, you have to create a good setup, which is sometimes difficult when your opponent DI's correctly (credit given to you ) And i do play with very competitive players, i just haven't made it out to a tourney myself, i am working 30 hours a week and taking classes but i would like to attend one sometime! Please know that although i am confident in my opinion, I am not claiming that I know everything about this game by any means. I am willing to take advice from anyone on these forums and hopefully learn a bit myself, and actually i appreciate your input. KEN COMBO FTW!
haha Happy New Year.



indeed you can.. crouch canceling (I use this example because everyone is familiar with it) is a similar example to a downward DI in many cases (for example, if you get upsmashed by fox when you are at about 80% you will not travel high enough to die unless you're jiggs or kirby i'm guessing). crouch cancelling is not necessarily a DI downward, but it behaves the same way. One can definitely DI down, it just doesn't show as much of a difference (as well as DI'ing up) as opposed to left and right. I can definitely see why you mae this statement though. I could be wrong of course, i'll follow up on this later

CC'ing is NOT DI'ing down. You can only smash DI down while you are standing on the ground...which has nothing to do with a Ken combo so I left that out.

While you are in the air you cannot DI down at all. It does nothing. Otherwise, we would be able to smash DI hits down into the ground and tech. You CAN DI up though.

 

[typh]

um ken combo. i didnt kno ken was in this game how do u unlock him or is it a chaet thanks in advance

 

[spindash]

um ken combo. i didnt kno ken was in this game how do u unlock him or is it a chaet thanks in advance

... Har, har, har. XD Hopefully that's a joke.

 

[CStrife187]

idk who ace83 is, but he's misrepresenting NC. the only player who wins tournaments statewide regularly is LOZR, and he plays fox/CF. what part of NC do you live in, ace83? I'll MM you for $5.

:edit: this post was off topic to get back on topic, the ken combo works on any character at differenct percents, but it can be DI'd out of fairly easily.

 

[d_shep04]

Ace83, after my boy Cstrife MM matches you... HIT ME UP SON... when ever you call me (or pm me) I'LL BE THERE... cstrife is good man... that Peach is a force 2 be wrecken with...

cstrife get at me sometime this break man... it's fun playing your sheik and peach and marth... but those that space animal fox is unstoppable... and that flightless bird... OMG... IM making him my main again...

 

[Ace83]

CC'ing is NOT DI'ing down. You can only smash DI down while you are standing on the ground...which has nothing to do with a Ken combo so I left that out.

First off, i know you can smash DI down. I stated specifically that CC is not DI'ing down. I said they were similar, and used CC'ing as an example because they are often used simultaneously and yield similar effects. This thread explains it quite well.
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=60218

While you are in the air you cannot DI down at all. It does nothing. Otherwise, we would be able to smash DI hits down into the ground and tech. You CAN DI up though.

I wasn't 100% sure if DI'ing down made much a difference (or any at all), but i've read several forums in the past that discuss it, so I mentioned it. For example, just so you know I'm not making stuff up, here's a thread that says to DI down and away after being hit by a Uair (while in the air) by Falcon when under 75% as roy.
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=99187

idk who ace83 is, but he's misrepresenting NC. the only player who wins tournaments statewide regularly is LOZR, and he plays fox/CF. what part of NC do you live in, ace83? I'll MM you for $5.

I assure you that I never meant to "misrepresent NC" lol. i was merely stating my thoughts on the ken combo. I do not live very far from you, send me a PM anytime. Who do you main?

 

[d_shep04]

I wanna play you to Acer83... dont run from it son... me and cstrife are gonna play @ my house next week... your more than welcome 2 come... and face our wrath... lol... send me a message i'll give you my NINJA INFO CARDS... lol...

 

[Hylian]

You can DI an attack or throw down while you are on the ground but if you are in the air then I'm pretty sure DI'ing down will do nothing >_>.

 

[rubiksfriend]

The Ken Combo works on any character. It just takes timing and hand movements.

Thanks. I'll work on DI and spacing then.

 

[L1F3]

Argh, this thread is making my head spin quick like a spin dash...
Anyway, Ken Combo. Works on anything VS a Marth. Just needs practice.

PRACTICE NEVER MAKES YOU PERFECT, BUT IT GETS YOU **** CLOSE!!!

*ahem...

DI down in air is possible, pros do it, watch some matches between M2K/KDJ/PC. Make sure one is at least a Fox. Actually, King vs M2K has some really good DI DOWN in the AIR from King.

Yes, Ken Combo works, just practice it like everything else in your arsenal. Use it only when situations are perfect or you are totally pwning your opponent and have 2 lives to spare... Or if you're Ken.

Practice your Marth, marth Player. I wish to Marth mirror [ditto] you some day... You seem worthy and wise in the ways of smash! And anyone else can mm me too, I can use a little extra cash lol jk XD.

~L1F3