Keeping it Real with Samus -.-

[Gum]

Im gonna start off with a rant about the charge shot (cs).
Everyone was in dismay when they saw that the cs had been nerfed to the point that is was. Let me just say this. Im the kind of person who prefers when a character matches their respective games as accurately as possible (poor Ganon). This is why I was so pissed about TL not having the deku leaf, the hammer, the grappling hook etc. The charge shot however, is not what everyone wants it to be, and it certainly isnt how it was in melee. In every metroid game, the charge shot is one of the first power ups that you get. It is in no way as big as it is in smash, and in the games it is not the big *** ultimate projectile that it is made out to be in smash. People want it to be an amazing move that kills like it did in melee, but in her games its not even like that. A full charge shot is ok, but it didn't kill every enemy in one shot. It is simply a slightly more powerful version of the normal shot. This being said, I feel like the charge shot in Brawl is appropriately matched to how it is in her games. Of course it would be great to have it uber powerful with crazy knockback, but in reality it SHOULD'NT kill at 100% because of how it is in the Metroid series, which is not as powerful as we want it to be.

This brings me to my next subject: the power missiles. I am infinitely more upset about the nerfing of the power missile than that of the charge shot. In the Metroid series, one power missile could kill an enemy that one full charge shot couldn't. The power missile was one of, if not the best, projectile in the game. It killed most of the enemies in the game in one shot, and was a tool to open certain doors. I like the new look of the power missiles (they look more like how they did in Super Metroid) and they do travel fast, but ultimately think they should definitly kill.

This leads me into my final point. The super missiles do 10% each, they have great stun, less knockback, and they lift the opponent off the ground. The charge shot kills later on and travels quickly. We can see where Im going with this.

I've found that comboing projectiles the same way other characters try to combo close range attacks is a great way to use samus and results in her winning more. Of course she can chain aerials, we all know this, but chaining power missiles to a SH charge shot when you opponent is at 120% is a great way to get a KO. The missile hits and adds 10% to the stack, and the charge shot hits, adding 25% more, then the knockback takes place. Notice that they are stunned first, THEN they are knocked back. A lot of people are not aware of this, but what happens is the charge shot hits, checks the damage on the opponent in the stun animation, and the amount of knockback occurs according to how much damage is present after the hit. This means that chaining a zair to power missile, to charge shot maximizes your chances of getting a kill with that charge shot.

Im sure this is not anything people didn't already know, but lets reevaluate how we think we should be using her. Winning with her is almost entirely a frame of mind issue.
This is mainly to try to help some of the new Samus users and give them more of a psychological approach to how she can effectlively be used.

 

[MRS1]

Very cool ideas. I've been trying to get into the mindset of charging her shot a little bit more often, maybe like I would do in the games. This is great information about a great character.

-M0M

 

[paul1290]

If you count her three different projectiles and the Zair, Samus has 4 different weapons you can use to hit an opponent at medium range and they all travel at different speeds.

Perhaps it might be possible to take advantage of their different speeds to perform a "projectile combo" of sorts by firing the slower projectiles first and the faster projectiles afterwards so that they arrive closer together.

We already know that simple combinations like SH Homing missile to SH Zair, SH Homing Missile to Super Missile, and the combination Gum just mentioned are possible, but perhaps even longer chains might be possible.

Perhaps a Triple Missile jump where the last missile is replaced by something faster like a Zair or Super Missile followed by a Charged Shot upon landing might be feasable. (I don't have the game on so I can't check if this would work right now.)

This is mostly speculation of course and it could turn out to be pointless, but I think it's at least worth looking into.

 

[Crystanium]

Im gonna start off with a rant about the charge shot (cs).
Everyone was in dismay when they saw that the cs had been nerfed to the point that is was. Let me just say this. Im the kind of person who prefers when a character matches their respective games as accurately as possible (poor Ganon). This is why I was so pissed about TL not having the deku leaf, the hammer, the grappling hook etc. The charge shot however, is not what everyone wants it to be, and it certainly isnt how it was in melee. In every metroid game, the charge shot is one of the first power ups that you get. It is in no way as big as it is in smash, and in the games it is not the big *** ultimate projectile that it is made out to be in smash. People want it to be an amazing move that kills like it did in melee, but in her games its not even like that. A full charge shot is ok, but it didn't kill every enemy in one shot. It is simply a slightly more powerful version of the normal shot. This being said, I feel like the charge shot in Brawl is appropriately matched to how it is in her games. Of course it would be great to have it uber powerful with crazy knockback, but in reality it SHOULD'NT kill at 100% because of how it is in the Metroid series, which is not as powerful as we want it to be.

This brings me to my next subject: the power missiles. I am infinitely more upset about the nerfing of the power missile than that of the charge shot. In the Metroid series, one power missile could kill an enemy that one full charge shot couldn't. The power missile was one of, if not the best, projectile in the game. It killed most of the enemies in the game in one shot, and was a tool to open certain doors. I like the new look of the power missiles (they look more like how they did in Super Metroid) and they do travel fast, but ultimately think they should definitly kill.

This leads me into my final point. The super missiles do 10% each, they have great stun, less knockback, and they lift the opponent off the ground. The charge shot kills later on and travels quickly. We can see where Im going with this.

I've found that comboing projectiles the same way other characters try to combo close range attacks is a great way to use samus and results in her winning more. Of course she can chain aerials, we all know this, but chaining power missiles to a SH charge shot when you opponent is at 120% is a great way to get a KO. The missile hits and adds 10% to the stack, and the charge shot hits, adding 25% more, then the knockback takes place. Notice that they are stunned first, THEN they are knocked back. A lot of people are not aware of this, but what happens is the charge shot hits, checks the damage on the opponent in the stun animation, and the amount of knockback occurs according to how much damage is present after the hit. This means that chaining a zair to power missile, to charge shot maximizes your chances of getting a kill with that charge shot.

Im sure this is not anything people didn't already know, but lets reevaluate how we think we should be using her. Winning with her is almost entirely a frame of mind issue.
This is mainly to try to help some of the new Samus users and give them more of a psychological approach to how she can effectlively be used.

In Metroid Prime 2: Echoes, if you did multi-player, you could use one Samus to see how large the Charge Beam was. In Echoes, the Charge Beam was quite massive in size. In Super Metroid, the Charge Beam was strong enough to take down the Space Pirate Ki-Hunters. (Simply head over to Brinstar, get the Charge Beam, head over to Spore Spawn, and along the way you'll bump into three Ki-Hunters who precede Spore Spawn's room. It takes one Charge Beam to defeat one, which is equivalent to killing them as if you used a Missile.)

In regard to the Super Missiles, they should have made the Super Missiles a bit more faster, because in Super Metroid, they fire out of Samus' Arm Cannon real fast. Talk about no lag! If the creators of the game kept to the actual tier, Samus would be at the top. I'm sorry, but in reality, a Super Missile will take down a human being in an instant. Link's Hyrule Shield would not protect him, and Snake would not survive. Ness and Lucas are a different story, but they'd have to rely on PSI in order to resist such attacks.

Anyway, I'm going to come up with some tricky ways of deceiving my opponent and hopefully, it will cause him to lose. (It's fun to charge up your Charge Shot and fool Ness, Lucas, and Mr. Game & Watch. Fire a Super Missile and follow it up with a Charge Shot. They'll have to block instead of using the PSI Magnet or the Bucket.)

 

[MookieRah]

This thread is very silly. Who cares if the charged shot wasn't like that in Super Metroid? Honestly, the Smash charged shot isn't even CLOSE to the Super Metroid charge shot to begin with. Since when did Samus have to stand in one place to charge it? Since when did it shoot a blast that large? Heck, the blasts given off by her gun have never been orbs, and when Melee was made Prime wasn't even close to being released so adding "homing missiles" were also not Metroid-esque. The argument presented by the OP is full of so many logical flaws.

 

[ADHD]

This thread is very silly. Who cares if the charged shot wasn't like that in Super Metroid? Honestly, the Smash charged shot isn't even CLOSE to the Super Metroid charge shot to begin with. Since when did Samus have to stand in one place to charge it? Since when did it shoot a blast that large? Heck, the blasts given off by her gun have never been orbs, and when Melee was made Prime wasn't even close to being released so adding "homing missiles" were also not Metroid-esque. The argument presented by the OP is full of so many logical flaws.

Yeah I don't understand this thread, but she definitely needed something new in brawl. Her move set is exactly the same as melee.

 

[Gum]

This thread is very silly. Who cares if the charged shot wasn't like that in Super Metroid? Honestly, the Smash charged shot isn't even CLOSE to the Super Metroid charge shot to begin with. Since when did Samus have to stand in one place to charge it? Since when did it shoot a blast that large? Heck, the blasts given off by her gun have never been orbs, and when Melee was made Prime wasn't even close to being released so adding "homing missiles" were also not Metroid-esque. The argument presented by the OP is full of so many logical flaws.

No no no, these things that you are mentioning sums up my point exactly. Im talking about it in terms or power and knockback. It would be a different story if she had an ice beam or plasma beam that was weak as hell, but thats not the case. What Im saying is that it is ridiculous for people to be complaining about the charge shot being nerfed when, in terms of power, its really not that impressive in the games anyway. Its ok, but people want something more powerful than wht actually exist is her games. Of course the other things hold true. She should be able to charge while movng, charge in the air, and fire at angles. The fact that she can't do those things, yet people want a more powerful charge shot makes no sense. My main point in retrospect, use it appropriately and there are no problems.

 

[Solo Assass1n]

Well, something that definitely would be revolutionary is allowing her to hit opponents after holding a charge and jumping into an enemy, like in the games. I'm sure that would be helpful. Even if her regular charge shot wasn't that powerful, the lack of lag after shots made up for it, which surely would have helped as well.

 

[alchfilosofer]

^
That would be complete ownage

 

[kongfucius]

You know what we need?


ICE BEAM

 

[GotACoolName]

But the Charge Beam does kick *** in the Metroid games. In Super Metroid, IIRC, it does more damage to bosses than a freaking Super Missile.

However, you can't honestly expect Samus's weapons' power to be of the same caliber as they are in the actual Metroid games. Going by canonical strength, Samus would absolutely destroy the vast majority of the roster, and that wouldn't be any fun. So it's pretty ridiculous to expect Super Missiles to have enormous kill power.

 

[n00b]

I wouldn't mind if Samus's down B was an ice beam into the ground that froze her opponent in place like ZSS's dsmash.. cuz then we'd have a decent setup for dtilt. kek

 

[MookieRah]

Im talking about it in terms or power and knockback. It would be a different story if she had an ice beam or plasma beam that was weak as hell, but thats not the case.

Reread what I said guy, you are talking about the Charge Shot being this and that in Super Metroid yet Samus's charge shot NEVER looked like that or worked like that in Super Metroid! One must deduce that the charge shot present in the smash games is nothing like the charge shot Samus has in her Metroid games. Even if her charge shot was like it was in the Metroid games, they would still make it appropriate for smash. Which goes back to other things you said, like how the super missile should be devastating. If that was the case then why would you EVER charge shot? Why spend time charging when you could just press forward B and have a better more powerful projectile? Have you actually sat down and thought about some of the crap you are talking about?

 

[Crystanium]

But the Charge Beam does kick *** in the Metroid games. In Super Metroid, IIRC, it does more damage to bosses than a freaking Super Missile.

It takes longer to charge up, and it's not as fast as the Super Missile. I'll have to test out the power later. I'll head over to those large Sidehoppers who lie beyond the wall where you acquire the Morphing Ball.

 

[SarahHarp]

In Super Metroid, all beams equipped + charge beam = around 2 or so super missiles.
It takes 4 Super Missiles to kill Kraid, but only 2 charged ice+wave+plasma beam shots to kill him. (To get plasma "before" Kraid, do the reset glitch).

On anther note, to incorporate Samus different beams, I would have had fair and usmash use different elemental properties than fire (for example, fiar uses electrical bursts. usmash uses ice bursts, and dtilt still uses the fire one.)

 

[Gum]

In Super Metroid, all beams equipped + charge beam = around 2 or so super missiles.
It takes 4 Super Missiles to kill Kraid, but only 2 charged ice+wave+plasma beam shots to kill him. (To get plasma "before" Kraid, do the reset glitch).

On anther note, to incorporate Samus different beams, I would have had fair and usmash use different elemental properties than fire (for example, fiar uses electrical bursts. usmash uses ice bursts, and dtilt still uses the fire one.)

Well yeah, but to kill him in 2 shots you have to have those propeties added to the charge shot. Im just saying the regular charge shot.

It would have been sweet if she did have those different properties added to her smashes, but Sakurai lacks creativity.

@Mookie: If the charge shot had more damage added to it, and power missiles killed, there would still be a use for it. In melee, both killed and both were used even though super missiles didnt need to be charged. We are talking hypothetical here. If they gave power missiles the ability to kill, but gave the charge shot a power boost, it wouldnt need more knockback and would still be viable. No its not like it is in the games EXCEPT for it's proportionate power. Knockback is what people want, and that doesn't exist in metroid. As of now in Brawl, it doesn't really exist either (except at really high % obviously) and that was my point in terms of the charge shot. Not sure why you can't see what Im talking about, its not that hard. Its like if they gave her power bombs in Brawl and made it so that it did crazy damage but no knockback. For all intents and purposes it should have ridiculous knockback, but instead it does like 40%. In the one hand, I would be pissed because its a bomb, and should blow opponents away, but at something like 40%, you could easily KO someone right after they got hit by it with the existing charge shot if they were hit by the bomb at like 100% even. Thats not something I could really stay mad about. 25% is quite a bit of damage which Is why i went into the fact that if you stack the damage, you get more out of the charge shot. Just dont be mad cuz it doesnt kill at 90%.

 

[kongfucius]

Another reason that the fully equipped chargeshot does more that a super missile could be that the wave function hits multiple times while travelling through them....or atleast in fusion. In fusion you needed about 80 super missiles to take down ridley but about twenty something charge shots.