KayJay's Lab

[JAZZ_]

Updated OP:

Samus's Frame Perfect Short Hop double U-Air

My God, how the heck will I keep up with all this new tech that keeps pouring out the gates?! Did you happen to mention this to Izaw ?

 

[Izaw]

Good stuff !

 

[KayJay]

Updated OP:

Throw Follow ups tested against airdodge & DI Away:

Character | D-Throw > F-Air | U-Throw > U-Air / F-Air
Mario | Yes (very tight) | Yes
Luigi | Yes | No
Peach | Yes | No
Bowser | Yes | No
Yoshi | Yes | No
Rosalina | Yes | No
Bowser Jr | Yes | Yes
Wario | Yes | Yes
Donkey Kong | Yes | Yes
Diddy Kong | No | Yes
Game & Watch | Yes (only at very low %) | Yes
Little Mac | Yes | Yes
Link | Yes | Yes
Zelda | Yes (only at very low %) | Yes
Sheik | No | Yes
Ganondorf | Yes | Yes
Toon Link | Yes | No
Samus | Yes | No
Zero Suit Samus | No | Yes
Pit | Yes (only at around ~35 %) | Yes
Palutena | No | Yes
Marth | Yes | Yes
Ike | Yes | Yes
Robin | No | Yes
Duck Hunt | Yes | Yes
Kirby | Yes | Yes
King Dedede | Yes | Yes
Metaknight | No | Yes
Fox | No | Yes
Falco | Yes (only at very low %) | Yes
Pikachu | Yes (only at very low %) | Yes
Charizard | No | No
Lucario | No | Yes
Jigglypuff | Yes | Yes
Greninja | No | Yes
Rob | Yes | Yes
Ness | Yes | Yes
Captain Falcon | Yes | Yes
Villager | Yes (very tight) | No
Olimar | Yes | Yes
Wii Fit Trainer | Yes (only at around ~35 %) | No
Shulk | Yes | Yes
Dr. Mario | Yes (very tight) | Yes
Dark Pit | Yes (only at around ~35%) | Yes
Lucina | Yes | Yes
Pacman | Yes (only at very low %) | No
Megaman | Yes | Yes
Sonic | No | Yes
Mewtwo | No | Yes
Lucas | Yes | Yes
Roy | Yes | Yes
Ryu | No | Yes
Cloud | Yes | Yes
Corrin | Yes (only at around ~35%) | Yes
Bayonetta | No | Yes

U-Throw followups (U-Throw > U-Air -> Up B) are only true at around 0%-30% depending on character, 25%-30% dmg are guaranteed.

Samus's U-Throw > F-Air strings

One Airdodge-read is all it takes, everything else is a true combo. They can't shield, dodge or attack after they got hit by the small Charge Shot.

 

[DungeonMaster]

Nice stuff KayJay when you are testing d-throw, you are testing with slight initial dash (I'm going to assume it has to be since you said they DI outwards) ?
The general pattern, which makes total sense, is the harder it is to d-throw follow up, the easier it is to up-throw. Do you have percentages?

 

[KayJay]

Nice stuff KayJay when you are testing d-throw, you are testing with slight initial dash (I'm going to assume it has to be since you said they DI outwards) ?
The general pattern, which makes total sense, is the harder it is to d-throw follow up, the easier it is to up-throw. Do you have percentages?

Yes, tested with optimal initial dash. I don't have the exact %, would be too much work tbh.

 

[Jonny Westside]

Yes, tested with optimal initial dash. I don't have the exact %, would be too much work tbh.

WORTH IT THO.

 

[KayJay]

Updated OP:

The KayJay-Combo

Thanks to v1.1.5 our faster fall speed and the lower Dash Attack knockback with the early (7%) hit makes it easy to create a 50/50. You can punish an airdodge after DA > u-air > u-air instead of going for the guaranteed up B. This does 48%-54% dmg and it's a good mix-up since everyone trys to avoid our up B finisher by spamming airdodge.

 

[KayJay]

Updated OP:

Easy frame-perfect Instant Ledge Wall Jump (ILWJ) method

No Bidou required, works with C-stick set to tilts:
Attack button must be hold while hanging on the ledge, flick the C-Stick away from the ledge and immediately hold the left Stick towards the ledge.

Afro Smash uploaded a video of him abusing ILWJ (https://youtu.be/ShGX7fRg6c4), it made me wanting to lab it and so I found the simplified method.

 

[DungeonMaster]

I can't seem to get it work with my Wii u pro controller... am I missing something like smash attacks a+b set or some other setting?
For the record I can't get it to work with Bidou c-stick controls either, so perhaps I am just terrible at the control stick flicks.

I've been thinking about the sliding spot dodge from bidou. I'm able to get it fairly consistently out of a run regardless of bidou, completely normal control scheme,I don't think this is anything new, but maybe we can figure out a timing or a control scheme that is less complicated that bidou to optimize for it. I'm not too shabby at it just training for a few hours but I think someone with natural tech skill might be able to be very consistent (like slide across the stage with spot dodges).

 

[KayJay]

Oh yeah you have to disable A+B Smash Attacks.

 

[Hark17ball]

Updated OP:

Easy frame-perfect Instant Ledge Wall Jump (ILWJ) method

No Bidou required, works with C-stick set to tilts:
Attack button must be hold while hanging on the ledge, flick the C-Stick away from the ledge and immediately hold the left Stick towards the ledge.

Afro Smash uploaded a video of him abusing ILWJ (https://youtu.be/ShGX7fRg6c4), it made me wanting to lab it and so I found the simplified method.

So it's Grab Ledge, Hold , , , +, , +.
Then reset the process?

Do I have to hold A the entire time?
I'll have to memorize it so when I'm home I can try it out.

 

[KayJay]

So it's Grab Ledge, Hold , , , +, , +.
Then reset the process?

Do I have to hold A the entire time?
I'll have to memorize it so when I'm home I can try it out.

Not necessary, I labbed basically 2 methods:

From the left ledge:
Hold while inputting ,,+,+,+,+ repeat

or

Hold while inputting ,,+, release , +,+,+, Hold before your ledge snap animation is over and repeat.

 

[Hark17ball]

Not necessary, I labbed basically 2 methods:

From the left ledge:
Hold while inputting ,,+,+,+,+ repeat

or

Hold while inputting ,,+, release , +,+,+, Hold before your ledge snap animation is over and repeat.

Appreciate it!

 

[Caedus]

Is it still possible to get in 2 up airs out of a short hop after the latest patch?

 

[Afro Smash]

Is it still possible to get in 2 up airs out of a short hop after the latest patch?

No

 

[Caedus]

That's reassuring. I was certain I was completely incompetent. I tried this in training mode for hours until I remembered her air speed increased in the latest patch and hoped that was why I couldn't do it. Maybe update the OP to note that this no longer works?

 

[Xygonn]

That's reassuring. I was certain I was completely incompetent. I tried this in training mode for hours until I remembered her air speed increased in the latest patch and hoped that was why I couldn't do it. Maybe update the OP to note that this no longer works?

bair uair still works though. Just fyi.

 

[KayJay]

I wrote a note to the frame perfect SH U-Air and also added extended Dashdancing to Foxtrot-dancing:

Spoiler

Good for baiting and finding an opening for her Dash Attack combostarter or for K.O. fishing.
Example: Z-Air > Extended dashdance > perfect pivot CS
It's highly possible that your opponent shields/spotdodges after getting hit by Z-Air, they will most likely drop their shield and take the bait when they see you retreating so the pp CS will hit them in their shielddrop frames.

 

[DungeonMaster]

That's really slick... I both so don't want to learn to perfect pivot, and I so do...

 

[KayJay]

Added to the OP:

Falling U-Air into U-Smash connecting & inescapable at kill %, list of characters:

Character
Rosalina (without Luma)
Bowser Jr. (charge U-Smash for about a half second)
Donkey Kong
Zelda
Ganondorf
Palutena
Rob
Mewtwo

 

[Afro Smash]

Is this inescapable because Up Smash will catch jump and people airdodging to the ground, or do we need to read the airdodge and charge longer?

 

[KayJay]

Is this inescapable because Up Smash will catch jump and people airdodging to the ground, or do we need to read the airdodge and charge longer?

They can't jump out, you don't need to read airdodge, just don't mess up the input.

 

[MegaRiff]

Ok. So my question is... Why isn't this thread stickied? Deserves it.

 

[DungeonMaster]

KayJay are you including an optimal number of soft hits? Or just testing out of SHAD up-air?
I'm surprised luma can't hit us out of up-smash, she's really locked?

Even if it's very matchup specific: Nice! I refuse to covert away from my c-stick set to smash so I'll definitely use this frame perfect.
Up-smash kills a good 30% earlier than Up-B. Rosa should only live to about 90 vs. power armor. Die Rosa DIE!

 

[KayJay]

KayJay are you including an optimal number of soft hits? Or just testing out of SHAD up-air?
I'm surprised luma can't hit us out of up-smash, she's really locked?

Luma can potentially safe her, Samus has a very easy time getting Luma offstage so only go for it after you gimped Luma.

Even if it's very matchup specific: Nice! I refuse to covert away from my c-stick set to smash so I'll definitely use this frame perfect.
Up-smash kills a good 30% earlier than Up-B. Rosa should only live to about 90 vs. power armor. Die Rosa DIE!

With Max Rage and best DI, Rosa die's at 69% on Smashville from u-smash. So with the 3-5% dmg from falling u-air she will die at around ~64%, with bad DI even earlier.

 

[MegaRiff]

Sticky please! All in favor?

 

[MegaRiff]

@IsmaR So is there any chance we can get this thread stickied? There is a lot of useful information here, much like the knowledge compendium.

 

[KayJay]

Added a video example to falling u-air into u-smash: