Kadano's controller mods (consistent shield drops, hybrid gate &more) (list with details and prices)

R3N0

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#41
AHHH NOOOOOOOOOOO! I was deciding which controller I wanted for like the last hour!! >_> T_T

a0 A3 B4 B5R C=any new E2
pls let me be last one.
 

Kadano

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#43
AHHH NOOOOOOOOOOO! I was deciding which controller I wanted for like the last hour!! >_> T_T

a0 A3 B4 B5R C=any new E2
pls let me be last one.
Sorry, I can’t make exceptions here. But I sent all the identification data to PayPal, so hopefully they’ll confirm my account within 1-2 days. I’ll also (try to) register my business tomorrow.
 

Kadano

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#45
Out of curiosity, are you planning on making controller modding your full time job?
For the time being, as long as demand is that high, yes. (I don’t see a different way I could output that many. In the last 24 hours alone I added 19 requests and there are plenty of more people waiting / hoping to get served. I spend about 3 hours on a controller on average, so these 19 requests will take almost 60 work hours to finish.)

In the past, my Melee mechanics videos were the only income for Melee-related things I did, and with about 90$ per video (from Patreon) that took ~70 work hours to make, it wasn’t really sustainable to invest more time and effort into. But if I can support myself with the controller mods, I can put the spare remaining time into creating even more videos and MIOM articles.
 
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Buda

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#46
For the time being, as long as demand is that high, yes. (I don’t see a different way I could output that many. In the last 24 hours alone I added 19 requests and there are plenty of more people waiting / hoping to get served. I spend about 3 hours on a controller on average, so these 19 requests will take almost 60 work hours to finish.)
That's actually pretty cool to be able to support yourself modding controllers. I may get one in the future as well.
 

Kadano

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#51
This is super dope dude, crazy how many options there is. Will def make an order when I have the cash to splash.
And also if authorities here turn out to be less of a pain in the butt than they currently seem to be. Tried to register this as a business today, got told I need to complete a four years mechatronics apprenticeship to be legally entitled to do that kind of work. WTF. I’m trying to apply for extraordinary qualification now, let’s see how this goes. I hope I can just show them examples of my controllers to prove that I’m not installing some **** in there that will blow up in people’s faces.

Worst case I’ll refund all payments that haven’t been shipped yet … I really hope it won’t come to that.
 
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AZ Neon

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#52
And also if authorities here turn out to be less of a pain in the butt than they currently seem to be. Tried to register this as a business today, got told I need a four years mechatronics apprenticeship to be legally entitled to do that kind of work. WTF. I’m trying to apply for extraordinary qualification now, let’s see how this goes. I hope I can just show them examples of my controllers to prove that I’m not installing some **** in there that will blow up in people’s faces.

Worst case I’ll refund all payments that haven’t been shipped yet … I really hope it won’t come to that.
nooo. Well, good luck then. We're all rooting for you
 

schmooblidon

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#53
What were you doing before? Couldn't you just do this through donations? Or is that what they are becoming suspicious of?
 

Kadano

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#54
What were you doing before? Couldn't you just do this through donations? Or is that what they are becoming suspicious of?
For the first couple of controllers, I only charged the costs I had to pay. I didn’t register a company when I had only sold ~ 10 controllers for ~15€ profit each, as it didn’t seem like the demand was increasing. Now with the huge amount of recent orders, I ended up close to the 2500€ yearly incoming payments limit on PayPal. If I reach 2500€, my account will be disabled for now, which I want to avoid of course. I’ve sent them all documents they require but for some reason they haven’t upgraded my account to business yet.

(The ~2200€ I received this year also include about 200 from Patreon and the Nintendo USB adapters I sold when they were scarce (I sent some to Armada and other players as stock near me was surprisingly large, asking for just what I paid + shipping cost).)

I’ve actually been using PayPal donations all the time. Currently, the only payment I could safely accept is bank transfer, but I think overseas fees for that are high.
 
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Pauer

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#55
I guess people could send in (their own controllers + ) cash per mail.
Edit: of course that would only make sense if the issue persists until you finished the 34th controller. Given that you need around 3 hours per controller, I'd guess you'd need 1-2 weeks at least to finish all of them off.
 
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aureliadct

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#56
This is kind of a weird question, but if I sent you one of the official ascii keyboard controllers, would you be able to perform modifications on it? (assuming you actually end up being able to take more orders)
 

Kadano

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#57
This is kind of a weird question, but if I sent you one of the official ascii keyboard controllers, would you be able to perform modifications on it? (assuming you actually end up being able to take more orders)
Sure, but shipping might be a bit more expensive, and A0 probably won’t improve anything with that controller.
 

rousd

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#61
Question: would it be beneficial to have a JPN white controller with b4, or would it be better to replace the back shell with an original GC controller shell? Pretty much you get easier shield drops without the sticky shoulder buttons... right?

Considering buying a new controller sometime in the future.
 
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Kadano

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#62
Question: would it be beneficial to have a JPN white controller with b4, or would it be better to replace the back shell with an original GC controller shell? Pretty much you get easier shield drops without the sticky shoulder buttons... right?

Considering buying a new controller sometime in the future.
So far, nobody who bought a new controller with B4 applied had any complaints about sticking, so I don’t think replacing the back shell is necessary (or even advantageous at all compared to B4).

I received one JP white yesterday, I finished and shipped it to ck800 today. More JP whites will take about a week to arrive.
However, I received four Smash white controllers today. Since none of those who paid already ordered them, I don’t have anything to do with them currently. But if you are one of those who paid already and want to get your controller faster, you can change your order to Smash white and I can finish and ship your controller by Monday. I will also refund the 5€ difference to you.

Edit: Also, starting with order #16 that went out today (ck800), all controllers include control stick grading diagrams (printed on a sheet together with the bill, folded and put into the controller box).
 
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rousd

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#63
But if you are one of those who paid already and want to get your controller faster, you can change your order to Smash white and I can finish and ship your controller by Monday. I will also refund the 5€ difference to you.
I haven't bought a controller yet, but thanks for the reply!
 

Rachman

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#64
So, A2a is supposed to interfere with "Axe" style shield drops because it is difficult to hit the cardinal direction or the directly SE/SW direction afterwards. However, A2b makes it so these notches are still noticeable yet it is still possible to hit the super sweet angles. Is this correct? So, it would be illogical for someone who shield drops to get A2a over A2b unless I'm misunderstanding something about the "specific thumb input" (note: I'm also assuming having A2a on the top half and A2b on the bottom half would be disorienting to the user due to the incongruous nature of such a modification. If this is incorrect please correct me).

Also, how big of a difference do these mods really make to reducing finger strain? I understand this will be subjective feedback in all likelihood but as, someone who struggles with right hand problems consistently when playing Fox I am very interested. Specifically, how big of a difference do you believe B2b, B5, B6, and B7 really make in terms of preserving hand health?
 

Kadano

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#65
So, A2a is supposed to interfere with "Axe" style shield drops because it is difficult to hit the cardinal direction or the directly SE/SW direction afterwards. However, A2b makes it so these notches are still noticeable yet it is still possible to hit the super sweet angles. Is this correct? So, it would be illogical for someone who shield drops to get A2a over A2b unless I'm misunderstanding something about the "specific thumb input" (note: I'm also assuming having A2a on the top half and A2b on the bottom half would be disorienting to the user due to the incongruous nature of such a modification. If this is incorrect please correct me).
It’s easy to consistently Sung shield drop with both A2a and A2b. It’s just slightly more comfortable to do so quickly with A2b because the “bumper” that’s left on the octagon gate will be more rounded and not as sharp / edgy. The difference between A2a and A2b is quite minor.

Also, how big of a difference do these mods really make to reducing finger strain? I understand this will be subjective feedback in all likelihood but as, someone who struggles with right hand problems consistently when playing Fox I am very interested. Specifically, how big of a difference do you believe B2b, B5, B6, and B7 really make in terms of preserving hand health?
I’d say A0, B4, B5 and B6 make the most difference in reducing finger strain. I feel like B2b mostly reduces finger strain when coupled with a very low B5 percentage, and a somewhat low B6 percentage.
 

Rachman

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#66
It’s easy to consistently Sung shield drop with both A2a and A2b. It’s just slightly more comfortable to do so quickly with A2b because the “bumper” that’s left on the octagon gate will be more rounded and not as sharp / edgy. The difference between A2a and A2b is quite minor.


I’d say A0, B4, B5 and B6 make the most difference in reducing finger strain. I feel like B2b mostly reduces finger strain when coupled with a very low B5 percentage, and a somewhat low B6 percentage.
Brilliant, I'd certainly be interested in purchasing a controller once you're capable of receiving payments. I'm already following you on Twitter and this thread, should that suffice if I want to remain updated on when you are again taking orders?
 
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-ACE-

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#69
How bad do you have to be to use a modded controller as an easy cop out for getting good? There's no way these are tournament legal, anyways.
Yeah, I'm all for modified controllers, but notches for shield drops and perfect wavedashes cross some serious lines imho.

My thoughts on the issue are at the end of this page and the following page.

http://smashboards.com/threads/how-to-wreck-es-with-ganon-linguini-q-a-thread.215432/page-568

I'm hoping Kadano sees a lot of success modifying controllers and makes bank. He's extremely knowledgeable with this type of stuff and has given huge contributions to the community through his research. Just voicing my opinion on the notches. I actually have carved notches in a front piece before, perfect wavedashes are effortless. I put the regular front piece back on after one day, since it felt unethical, and threw the modified front piece away.

*poof*
 

BootyBlast

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#70
So how about I send you my controller and you do these modifications? Also I live in Switzerland so transferring the controller should not be a big issue. Could also send the cash with my controller.
 

TidalWave

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#71
So how about I send you my controller and you do these modifications? Also I live in Switzerland so transferring the controller should not be a big issue. Could also send the cash with my controller.
I am curious about this as well. How would it affect price if you supplied your own controller?

-ACE- -ACE- I actually agree with that after thinking it over. Hmm....
 
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BootyBlast

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#72
Also I would like to know if you can make it (my order which I'm going to hand in asap) before DreamHack Winter (24.11)
 

Kadano

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#73
What do you do exactly for the button height mod? I'm interested in trying to do it myself.
I just take off part of the bottom of the Y button with a file and put some glue on the retainers (this is a bit tricky, but you’ll figure it out).

How bad do you have to be to use a modded controller as an easy cop out for getting good? There's no way these are tournament legal, anyways.
The hybrid gate only lowers the risk of accidentally hitting cardinal direction instead of slightly angled. Sometimes, maybe once every match, this makes the difference of recovering successfully or practically SD’ing, but by no means will this allow a player of inferior skill to win against somebody who’s above his skill.
Actually, they are usually tournament legal. The only majors were these would have been illegal are Genesis 1 and 2.

I am curious about this as well. How would it affect price if you supplied your own controller?
You wouldn’t have to pay the 25-30€ controller cost. Apart from that, nothing would change.

Yeah, I'm all for modified controllers, but notches for shield drops and perfect wavedashes cross some serious lines imho.
You do realise that A3 (shield drop notches) does nothing more than equalising controller variance? About one in 20-30 controllers has perfect shield drop notches, just like I offer them, out of the box. If I sell a controller that’s only modded with A3, it’s identical to one of these 2-3% vanilla controllers. The only difference is that with buying from me, you don’t need to try 20-30, but only one, so time and effort / money are saved.

Perfect wavedashes are more questionable, I agree. However, they also become noticeably easier with a controller that has considerable wear on its octagon gate, rounding out the initially straight edges that hinder ±18° inputs. As a gate approaches a fully round gate, it gets closer to what I offer with A2.
The way I see it, the octagon shape is mostly very stupid for Melee, because the 17.1° thresholds sits at parts of the octagon where the octagon shape heavily tends to cause slipping into cardinal direction. (Very easy to understand if you imagine it as force vectors.)
To me, this is just a misdesign, so taking countermeasures to limit / compensate this “bad influence” is appropriate. And, really, especially with the pictures I provided, it’s not like only those who have the money to order from me could get a hybrid gate controller. It’s just that the chance to mess up the mod on the first, second or even third try is quite high, but if you work very slowly and carefully with 20+ file-test-note cycles, there’s no reason the first attempt shouldn’t end well.

In the end, TOs decide. When we look at other sports, it only seems professional to me to take care of your own equipment and have it perform its best way, or to have other people do that for you (as is standard for professional skiing athletes, for example). I don’t think the mindset of “you are not allowed to have a better / more consistent tool than me!” is appropriate today. We constantly hear of Armada, Mew2king and others that they are desperately in search of reliable controllers. I think it’s a more ideal situation if they can just order controllers that work as they expect (which admittedly is still not what I can offer, since I haven’t found a way to maximise back dash ratio) than to have them invest a good portion of their time into controller searching for as long as they keep playing competitively.

There is of course a limit of improving a controller. Traditionally, this limit has always been set at electrical mods, like adding a waveshine button (or in general, adding buttons that do things that usually can’t be done with a single button press). This is a limit I don’t intend to cross, so none of the mods I offer really cross any serious lines imho.
 
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-ACE-

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#76
Kadano Kadano Equalizing controller variance? So if your current controller seems to require more accuracy than your last one, it's ok to alter the controller by carving notches that physically guide you into the perfect spot for otherwise skill-demanding techs? I dunno. This opens the doors for any and all notches.

How did you determine such a precise percentage range for controllers with good (natural) notches for shield drops? Do you mean all controllers? The new white ones in my experience are pretty consistent although nothing is perfect.

I don't see the octagon as a "misdesign" at all. It certainly takes a good amount of skill to be consistent at snapping the stick to an exact position that isn't one of the 8 notches (flat surface of gate). The amount of angles at which you can apply pressure without moving the stick (depends on friction) is much lower than if you have a notch, which allows the player to apply pressure to the stick from a much broader range of angles and still not move the stick. This allows the player to have less accuracy with the stick but accomplish the same goal. So I see the octagon as part of the controller and part of the game, something that must be dealt with (like randall or the wind on DL64). And I see practice as the best controller variance equalizer (not making physical modifications that make AT's easier to perform). That, and getting a white controller lol. Most of the ones I owned shield dropped just fine.

I won't post anymore, not trying to hi-jack
 
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Kadano

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#77
How did you determine such a precise percentage range for controllers with good (natural) notches for shield drops? Do you mean all controllers? The new white ones in my experience are pretty consistent although nothing is perfect.
http://smashboards.com/posts/19560675 (linked from my main thread’s OP, which has most of my useful contributions)
Admittedly that post makes the rate seem much higher, like 20%, however with all controllers I’ve sold since, the values before modding were at 0.6875-0.7 at best (which sometimes causes spot dodge), and most of these were JP whites. Also, for the two commission controllers I listed in the post, I didn’t do extensive testing because I modded them anyway; knowing better how value reading works now, there’s a good chance that their SE and SW ranges actually included 0.7.
When I modify them, I aim for 0.675 which is most consistent, and so far I’ve only observed once in a vanilla controller (see linked post) on both SE and SW. It’s only when a controller has 0.675 at both SE and SW that I consider it to be truly perfect at shield dropping, and that’s where I got the rate from (1 out of ~25 I’ve measured so far).
 
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dope.

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#78
makes understanding why smash4 controllers have (more) consistent shield drop rates. my jp white (fairly broken in) is extremely fickle with how far you tilt to shield drop. both notches (se & sw) will cause spot dodges, but slightly above works every time. glad to know this is helping controller consistency.
 

SpiderMad

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#79
B2b. [+10€ per trigger] Trigger point elevation: Inserts a spacer to decrease the amount of movement necessary until digital press. Details on how I do this mod are here. The idea is similar to 2a, but this will elevate the digital press point instead of lowering the neutral trigger position. This is recommended if you have rather long fingers and don’t want to claw as much for pressing L / R.
____________________________
Current order for submissions (✔ = completed and sent):
1. garrR ✔ paid & received
2. NMW / Shriek ✔ paid & received
3. Armada / Android ✔ paid & received (A3, C=Smash White)
4. Axe ✔ paid & received (A3, B4, C=Smash White)
5. Kyu Puff ✔ paid & received (A3*, A5b, B3LR, B4LR, B5LR, B6L, as well as any other ICs-specific things you can implement *may need to be more precise than normal to ensure both ICs shield drop (?) C=Smash White (base price 22€)
6. Spaghetti, ✔ paid & sent (A3 A5 B5LR B6LR, C=Smash White (base price 22€))
7. Reeve ✔ paid & sent (A3, B3L, B4L, B5L, B6L, JP White)
8a. hectohertz controller 1: A2b (WSW,ESE), A3, A4F, B3R, B5LR, C=(any with weak control stick spring), E2
8b. hectohertz controller 2: A3, A4F, B3R, B5LR, C=(any with weak control stick spring), E2
8.5 beld: (A2b (ESE,WSW) A3 B3L,C=(used), E7) [total: 30€ (gift / only pays for controller and shipping)]
9. Mew2king (A3, B2bR, B5RABXZ, B6R, C=any (weak control stick spring that’s sensitive downward))
10. sincerazero ✔ paid & received (A2b (all 8 octants), A3, B2b, B3L, B4, C=any new one, E2)
11. KoopaTroopa895 ✔ paid & received (A0, A2 (all 8 octants), A3, B4LR, C=JP, E1)
12. edmund-blake-nelson ✔ paid & sent (A2 A3 C= Smash White E1)
13. Icefights ✔ paid & sent (A0, A3, C=JP white)
14. neoshinryu (A0, A3, B4R, B5R, C = Smash white, E2 [total price: 83€ including shipping]
15. LL.DL ✔ paid & sent (A3, B2bLR, C=JP white, D1, E1) [total price: 95€ including shipping]
16. ck800 ✔ paid & sent (A0, A2a \ A2b (ESE,WSW), A3, B3R, E2, C=JP White) [total price: 130€ including shipping]
17. TC123 (A0, A3, B4L, B7Y, C: Smash White, E2) [total price: 89€]
18. Ganobrator (A3, B4LR, B5R, C=JP White, E1) [total price: 84€]
19. MrYaah ✔ paid & sent (A0, A2a (ENE, WNW, NNE, NNW), 2b (ESE, WSW, SSE, SSW), A3, A9, B2bRL, B3R, B4, B5LRABY, B6LR, B7Y, C=SB, D1, D2, E2) [total price: 192€]
20. Forte4Tei 1 (A0, A2b (eight octants) A3, B2bLR, B4(LR) B5(R), JP white, E5)
21. Forte4Tei 2 (A0, A3 B4(LR) B5(R), JP white, E5) [total price for both: 230€]
22. D-Leo (A3, A4F, B5RY, B7Y, C=(any with weak control stick spring), E2) [total price: 106€]
23. King Funk (A0, A3, C=JP White, D2b, E7) [total price: 75€]
24. BrTarolg (A0, A2a (ENE, WNW, NNE, NNW), 2b (ESE, WSW, SSE, SSW), A3, B1R, B7(y button), D2a, E8, C=JP white) [total price: 145€]
25. Kesa paid (A3, B2bL, B4LR, B5L, B6L,C=JP White,E8) [total: 83€]
26. Sergio91 paid (A0, A3, C=JP, E1) [total: 140$ as agreed on]
27. XVI paid (A2a (ENE,WNW,NNE,NNW,SSE,SSW) A2b (ESE,WSW), A3,B2bL,B3R,B4L,B5L60,B5Y60,B6L,C=JP,E1) [total: 144€]
28. Tafokints ✔ paid & sent (A0, A2a, A3, B2bLR, B4LR, B5LR, B6LR, C=SW, E2) [total: 200$ agreed on]
29. Leffen (undisclosed)
30. Vegard ✔ paid & sent (A2a, A3, B6L, E7, C=SW) [total: 120€]
31. Flippy Flippersen paid (A0 A3 B4 C = JP white E8) [total: 80€]
32. AZ Neon (A0,A2B(ESE, WSW, SSE, SSW),A3,B4(L),B5(L),C=Smash Black,E1) [total: 104€]
33. Jeezus_ (A0, A3, B4 (Both triggers) B5, C=JP White) [total: 86€+shipping]
34. SwiftBass (A0, A3 C=Japan white)
Seems like it's a hit (B2b). How have people you've done it for so far enjoy it? Have you modified the method to do it at all so far? Are people starting to like this set-up more, equal to, or less than your personally preferred modification of just lowering the standard resting position (which you currently do for your controller).

I noticed someone like M2K requested resistance reduction on controller buttons (including for Z): how large, where, and how many hole perforations are you doing for each button? I would think for the A button you'd make a slightly bigger perforation on the mesh pad than you would for the Z. Essentially this makes it so they're similar to worn out controller's buttons with the mesh being worn: but I can't determine if I like that (comparing other controllers to my really old worn out one). It pry helps out a bit ergonomically to press, but it feels less good in a way and makes you feel less secured that the buttons gonna work (though that might be because I'm use to not only worn out mesh, but slight build-up of dirt or what have you in the old controller I'm comparing to). One thing where it does feel better to be "worn-out" (for the X button) is doing something like X to C-stick for SH Bair ACs with Falco: that's an example where I can feel the worness being easy to press. But other examples like X to B Westballz Shines and X to A SH Early Aerials (Marth) have trade-offs between being worn out or not (with the worn out feeling less secure sometimes). And also for Z, I don't think that's a good idea. My Z button is also worn out on my worn out controller and it feels less secure to do chain grabs, which isn't worth the trade off of it being easier to press IMO. That's the one button where you do want a solid response.

My friend gave me a controller and I started modifying it. For the L (which I use everything for) I cut off 1cm of spring, punctured 5 holes in the hard press mesh with the tri-wing, and inserted a 20mm cut out of rolled up plastic from an Ice Mountain Water Bottle (from a 20x20 square piece) as a hard press spacer. It's pretty nice so far, I don't think I'll mess with the L anymore for now. Funny enough that I still slightly prefer my worn out controller's shoulder trigger as the spring is super worn out/weak and the hard press is so weak that it disappeared completely in terms of tangibility or audibility though it still works (though it came back once for a few matches after I dropped the controller but then went away again).

The R though I want to use for solely power shielding. I first had a 23mm insert and that worked nice enough (and didn't connect the analog slider so I didn't get any light shield), but then I tried cutting 5 holes in the hard press mesh and that made it feel bad. So I now just took out the spacer and the spring and just left it sunken in atm. So it's nice enough for now for PS'ing but I think I'm going to try something different for it to have it feel a little more normal for my finger that sometimes rests on it. Probly your this thing http://smashboards.com/threads/tech...ers-tvs-recording.335040/page-4#post-19896603 alongside a SUPER shortened spring that has no analog attached to the slider; idk.

I'm surprised you haven't come up with a method to "loosen" a control stick (besides replacing it with the C-stick). I think I read you mentioned there's a spring in there that gets worn out, and that it's hard to replace right or something idk.

Anyways, I plan to with my modified controller keep on modifying it. I'm gonna try to take on the tough challenge of making some of those controller plate gate changes. First I'll need to buy some of that rough sand paper. I can't determine what would be best for Falco, beyond just the maximum wavedash notches.
 
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