K. Rool's Kremling Kutthroats: PM BKupa666 for an Invite to the New K. Rool Thread

[Diddy Kong]

Sad thing is that Diddy's biggest playable role since DKC2 was Brawl to...

Why must this happen to all my favorite characters?

 

[TCRhade]

Sad thing is that Diddy's biggest playable role since DKC2 was Brawl to...

Why must this happen to all my favorite characters?

Just think of me. K. Rool is my #1 favorite Nintendo character ever, and Nintendo seems to want to forget him. D:

 

[Diddy Kong]

Well, Retro and Nintendo aren't exactly kind for Diddy either I feel. :/ They really are keen on bringing Donkey Kong back, and they are quite succesful in that. It's just, DKC wasn't all about Donkey Kong. Far from it. All the other elements where far more important. And I'll miss them forever if they're not brought back.

 

[TCRhade]

Exactly, I happen to feel the same way as you about DKC. Donkey Kong himself fared just fine in Mario spinoffs, for example.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Well no. Donkey Kong as a character was definitely lacking in development and attention by Nintendo having to rely on appearances in Mario Tennis, Golf and Kart so to let people remember who he is. It did great things for Diddy though. But he hasn't been in a Mario sport spinoff in a while. Or at least, a major one.

It's just that DK's universe is FAR LESS egocentric than say, Mario's. In the Mario universe, everything is about Mario. Peach, Yoshi, Luigi and Bowser are all important, but they all have their fixed roles, and hardly sway from them (except for Luigi). Mario is always the main hero. And perhaps there is a hidden Luigi mode.

In DKC, all the Kongs who where playable are on a equal foot, except Kiddy Kong (nobody loves him). But mainly Diddy and Dixie where the main heroes of the DKC triology, being playable the most of all Kongs. Diddy returned in DK64 however while Dixie didn't, and he even got his very own spin off title, Diddy Kong Racing. He established himself as a 100% equal to Donkey Kong quite swiftly from that point. His biggest miss was being excluded from Melee. Ever since then, it took a while before we saw him again (outside of remakes). His noticable biggest roles being in Mario Kart Double Dash, Golf Toadstool Tour, and Power Tennis. He was absent in Jungle Beat, which the biggest cluster**** in the DK universe ever, but luckily returned in DK: King of Swing. As a playable character in he Multiplayer Mode, but most importantly: the only of those characters to get his own mode in 1 Player mode, Diddy Mode.

Unfortunately, this is till today still his biggest role in a Donkey Kong game ever since DK64. Which is a sad thing. Ever since DK64, his role has decreased over time. And honestly, if he wasn't in Brawl, I would've boycotted Smash and Nintendo by now. I'm saddened by Nintendo's approach to the character. Especially since Rare would likely have had plenty of plans for him (seeing how they also planned to make Diddy Kong Pilot- a Diddy Kong title game with DK playable in it).

Anyway, am hoping Retro is willing to bring back absolutely everything I loved about DKC. They did a good thing by adding David Wise as a componist, underwater levels, and Dixie as a playable character. And adding elements as plucking and throwing are of coarse also welcome. But I still wanna switch between main characters. Have the Kongs throw each other. See more Animal Buddies back again. And see more helper Kongs. Not to speak of: the Kremlings. Even though I'm now equally upset about not being able to choose your main Kong at this point.

*insert BitF comic here of Old Diddy Kong rambling about loving it to tag between him and Cranky with handslaps*

 

[TCRhade]

Don't get me wrong, I love Retro Studios with a passion. They're produced amazing games. But I can't help but not overlook their lack of "love" for K. Rool and all. Returns is awesome. A great throwback to DKC, but it's still missing something without the main DK villain.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Hopefully they're working their way up to a game with all of the original cast of Kongs as well K. Rool, and the Kremling Krew.

Who knows? After Tropical Freeze, the next game may have K. Rool and the Kremlings as the main villains.

 

[Banjodorf]

I'd say the odds are in favor of that at present, but we've just got to keep hoping!

Hey Diddy! Did you mean story wise? Because Diddy had his own GAME in 1997 and a playable role in DK64.

 

[Johnknight1]

Don't get me wrong, I love Retro Studios with a passion. They're produced amazing games. But I can't help but not overlook their lack of "love" for K. Rool and all. Returns is awesome. A great throwback to DKC, but it's still missing something without the main DK villain.

It's just one game d00d... give them a chance.

I mean seriously, imagine if we have multiple DKC games without him... only to find out he was pulling the strings all along from Returns on, and that he has a bigger, badder, and more evil plot than ever! That alone would make up for any "wrong" that Retro Studios has committed, and honestly, that is what I think they are planning on doing. I mean, they clearly knew they were trolling us at the end, which means they are setting us up for something.

Also, I must say... ALL HAIL THE KING! ALL HAIL THE KING! ALL HAIL THE KING!

Brothers, I come to you here today to unite you under the CAUSE that is K. Rool!!!

Together, we will fight an epic battle, whether we live or we die defending it.
[collapse="If we die fighting this is what will happens..."]

[/collapse]
[collapse="But if we run away from what we know is right, then this will inevitably happen..."]

[/collapse]
Make a decision my fellow Kremlings, but make sure it is the most Kruel Khoice you Kan!!!

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I agree, just because Retro hasn't included K.Rool or the Kremlings doesn't mean we should be miffed with them.

THEY ACTUALLY GAVE US GOOD DKC GAMES AFTER HOW MANY YEARS!?!?!?

That alone should make up for it.

Besides, you never know if we won't see K.Rool in the future.

 

[Starbound]

If we keep pestering Retro enough, we'll get Kremlings in all their HD glory.

 

[Kamikazek]

It's just that DK's universe is FAR LESS egocentric than say, Mario's. In the Mario universe, everything is about Mario. Peach, Yoshi, Luigi and Bowser are all important, but they all have their fixed roles, and hardly sway from them (except for Luigi). Mario is always the main hero. And perhaps there is a hidden Luigi mode.

If you're looking for an example of an egocentric series, or a series with fixed roles, Mario is kind of a bad example. It's arguably more egocentric than the original DKC series, but as far as game serials go it's very far from egocentric. Luigi, Peach, and Yoshi have all stared in their own games, with Mario being relegated to a hostage position in two of them, not counting Mario is missing. Luigi even got to star in the only Mario series game on the gamecube for YEARS! Yoshi's had at least one game where Mario is barely if ever mentioned(Yoshi's Story) and in his other games Mario is just a glorified healthbar/hostage you have to protect, not unlike Ashley in RE4. Bowser has been on the good side several times and gotten tons of character development, mostly in the RPGs. The RPGs often give other characters as much or more focus than Mario(Inside Story's more about Bowser, Dream Team's more about Luigi) and have segments that are from other character's perspectives like Peach or Bowser, and they flesh out the setting and things like the basic level enemies. Mario Bros. 2 (American) basically has Mario, Luigi, Toad, and Peach as equals, and in the Japanese Mario Bros. 2 Luigi is at least equal to Mario. Wario got not one but two multi-game serials of his own to say nothing of the fact that he straight up stole the starring role of Mario Land 3 from Mario. In fact games like Mario World 2 or Mario Land 3 could easily be compared to DKC2 in how the name of the "Star" is still in the title but the game isn't really about them and they aren't even playable(rather it's about other individuals in said Country, Land, or World). I realize that part of this is just due to the insane sheer number of games released set in the Mario universe and that Mario always has his own string of games where he's the main focus, but even so the Mario series treats it's side characters VERY well and honestly way better than Mario in many ways, certainly in terms of character development and serves more as a good example than anything if non egocentric serials are your thing.

Honestly if I were making a case for more representation of underused elements in the Donkey Kong Country, my argument would be less of a "Nintendo is trying to treat DK like Mario and that's not what DK is supposed to be like at all" and more "Why doesn't Nintendo treat DK more like they treat Mario, which is closer to the way Rare handled DK than what they're doing now"?

 

[Diddy Kong]

I stand corrected. However, it really does bother me Nintendo only seems to focus on Donkey Kong himself. And yes, to be honest, I'd like it if Diddy would at least be treated as Luigi is in the Mario universe by them. Even though that is still a bit less than what Rare would've done for him for sure.

I remember being quite pissed learning there was no Diddy Mode in Returns, and Returns 3DS. At the very least, I want a Diddy Mode in a future DKC game. Diddy's Hero Mode in DKC1 for GBA for example! That was probably one of the better things added in the GBA remakes. As well as Diddy's Dash in DKC2 for GBA. I just miss the focus on the smaller Kong

 

[Kamikazek]

I stand corrected. However, it really does bother me Nintendo only seems to focus on Donkey Kong himself. And yes, to be honest, I'd like it if Diddy would at least be treated as Luigi is in the Mario universe by them. Even though that is still a bit less than what Rare would've done for him for sure.

I remember being quite pissed learning there was no Diddy Mode in Returns, and Returns 3DS. At the very least, I want a Diddy Mode in a future DKC game. Diddy's Hero Mode in DKC1 for GBA for example! That was probably one of the better things added in the GBA remakes. As well as Diddy's Dash in DKC2 for GBA. I just miss the focus on the smaller Kong

Well although I do think Rare would be giving more push for giving Diddy and some of the other characters more focus, I think the focus on Donkey Kong has less to do with how Nintendo/Rare views the Donkey Kong franchise and more to do with recent industry trends for game Revivals, at least in terms of DCK Returns( I didn't play anything between 64 and Returns so I can't really talk about that). The idea for a lot of serials recently has been to return things as close to roots as possible(in the case of DK that means to DKC 1 with DK in the lead and Diddy riding shotgun), to focus only on characters that almost everyone can recognize and get rid of everyone else(DK and Diddy, and Cranky only because Miyamoto really wanted him in), and just generally simplify things as much as possible. I think the idea is that you'll get the established fan base because it's reminiscent of the older games in the series and thus has nostalgia quality(and in the case of Returns is just a generally solid game), and you'll also get in new players who you were afraid might be intimidated by all the established characters/devices/ect. and reel them in with something familiar like the character Donkey Kong who almost everyone knows. Then maybe start reintroducing old elements you left out once you're confident you've got the new fans hooked. We're still in that "hooking" phase, so doing something like reducing DK's role in Tropical Freeze would be suicide if you're following this line of thinking. So basically the reboot philosophy comics have had for about 60 years now. As to whether it's a sound philosophy or not...I won't get into that just now.

But if you think in terms of that philosophy it actually bodes very well for Diddy that he showed up in Returns at all. It not only says that they thought Diddy was famous enough to be marketable, but that they thought that if you took away absolutely everything else and only leave what is completely essential for a game to be a Donkey Kong Country game, you still need to have Diddy, even if it is as DK's sidekick. For comparison, Sega didn't think freakn' Tails was important enough to include in Sonic 4 Episode 1. I think the fact that Diddy was deemed worthy of advertising the reboot along with DK shows that a Diddy spin off isn't out of the question, although I think even Rare would probably have had trouble getting one green lit now since Nintendo(and everyone else) are playing things really safe at the moment. If the Wii U gets out of his slump and begins to succeed, I think we might see some real risks being taken with the series again.

Why the Kremlins weren't in Returns is a little harder to explain, but I think it's in line with my above theory combined with what other people have said. Retro probably wanted some chance to use their creativity and add something new to the Donkey Kong universe, and they probably also wanted to stay true to the series tradition of having a lack of consistency between games(different protagonists in the DKC trilogy games, drastically different gameplay for almost every game after DKC3), but because of the reboot philosophy they were tethered to only using preexisting Kongs as well as other things like the basic game play and probably a lot more. In the end the only important thing they could really change or add was the villains, so they went with that. And of course there's also the possibility they're going for a trilogy and want the Kremlins to be the final enemy.

...God dang it I wish my posts didn't always end up so long. ;_;

 

[Groose]

In DKC, all the Kongs who where playable are on a equal foot, except Kiddy Kong (nobody loves him).

Sooo true. He was just kinda... there. Heck, I even prefer DK Jr.!

 

[IsmaR]

I don't see why Retro Studios is to blame at all. It's Nintendo that dropped that ball when they lost Rare to MS and fumbled reviving the series for the longest time. There's been only one pre-Retro/post-Rare DK game that even featured K. Rool, and he was playable in it.

Come to think of it, all of his latest appearances he's been playable. I think that's a good sign.

 

[Hoots]

I agree, just because Retro hasn't included K.Rool or the Kremlings doesn't mean we should be miffed with them.

THEY ACTUALLY GAVE US GOOD DKC GAMES AFTER HOW MANY YEARS!?!?!?

That alone should make up for it.

Besides, you never know if we won't see K.Rool in the future.

A fairly good platformer that was more or less a NSMB reskin? Yes. A good DKC game? No.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

(gasp) IsmaR typed a sentence that wasn't in italics!

That aside, K. Rool's latest appearence wasn't in even in a DK game, it was a Mario spin-off, Mairo Super Sluggers in 2008. That's not really a good or bad sign though, at least in my eyes.

 

[IsmaR]

I dunno, I don't think him being in Mairo games means much.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

That's actually what I meant.

Shame we haven't seen him in a game for years though.

 

[Diddy Kong]

DKC: Returns wasn't quite a NSMb reskin, but I can see why people would call it that. The resemblence is most seen in both game's map screens though. Was quite dissapointed with Returns map. It looked like Mario Party in Donkey Kong Island. I really miss the interactive maps DKC for SNES had. Especially DKC3's. It was one of the best things in the game. My ideal DKC game would have a map screen much like DKC3's. I feel it's an often quite overlooked improvement in the series. But most just prefer to hate DKC3 as a whole.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Calling it a NSMB reskin is pretty cheap. It's just how platformers look these days with these graphics, and even then NSMB isn't full on 3D as most of the environments are in 2D. If DKC:R is a NSMB reskin then Kirby's Return to Dreamland sure is too, and that's definitely not true.

 

[Diddy Kong]

2D Maps in DKC 2 and 3 where amazing though. Wish they'd do something like that again,

 

[BKupa666]

Side note, I love how this thread basically doubles as a DK series fan thread in addition to a K. Rool one, since our enjoyment of the two is really one and the same.

My ideal DKC game would be a collaboration between Retro and Paon, with the level design of the former and the personality of the latter (...for the most part; I prefer Dr. Claw K. Rool and cranky Cranky as opposed to generic villain and wise old man). Retro's difficulty in establishing a wild and wacky universe in characters isn't exposed with something like Metroid, where isolation is a key component, but it's relatively glaring when applied to DKC, and I believe this would carry over to Star Fox if the "Retro fans" *gag* got their wish.

I don't want an isolated DK with a family of two (now three/four) Kongs to interact with and with no connection to the enemy group, I want the sort of 'fleshed' universe that Rare so excelled at, and that, unfortunately, others are quick to label 'fattened.' Argue as the Miyamotophiles may, I consider this sort of characterization just barely less important than gameplay, even in a platformer. As a result, Retro's DKC titles may whet my gaming appetite for stretches of time, but will never give me the long-lasting nourishment as Rare's, which I still replay regularly.

In regard to Diddy, the people who are content with just DK as the star generally view Diddy as the sidekick, and nothing more, when in reality, that's just the role they'd like him to fill. His entire character arc speaks to the contrary, with him starting off as a 'wannabe hero' in DKC, then fighting tooth and nail to earn his stripes and become a hero equal to, if not greater than his mentor, DK. This is one of the many reasons I'd not like to see a Diddy/Dixie duo, among others.

 

[IsmaR]

In similar lieu, the Ridley thread kinda doubles as the Other M hate thread.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I should totally drop by the Ridley thread to speak of Anthony Higgs then

And yes, the Kuttroaths are basically all very loyal DKC fans. Even though there's always a lot of surprising love for DK64 to. Which is not all too common nowadays.

If was like this during pre-Brawl speculation to. All Diddy and K.Rool supporters where basically one big group.

 

[Banjodorf]

There's been only one pre-Retro/post-Rare DK game that even featured K. Rool, and he was playable in it.

Come to think of it, all of his latest appearances he's been playable. I think that's a good sign.

But wait a minute! He wasn't playable in King of Swing and Jungle Climber, but was the main villain. He WAS playable in both Barrel Blast (Underrated game imo) and Super Sluggers, so yeah.

 

[IsmaR]

He's playable in King of Swing's Jungle Jam mode (his first time being playable, at that). I forgot about Jungle Climber, though.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

heres a rumor to give hope for him to be in the new dk country game and more importantly smash bros

http://nintendo3dsdaily.com/wiiu/ru...llain-of-donkey-kong-country-tropical-freeze/

 

[Opossum]

heres a rumor to give hope for him to be in the new dk country game and more importantly smash bros

http://nintendo3dsdaily.com/wiiu/ru...llain-of-donkey-kong-country-tropical-freeze/

That was de-confirmed a long time ago. You know, because the "Find Out" date didn't occur...

 

[BKupa666]

You know, 'find out' dates and reveals are becoming more and more common in these bullsh*t leaks, along with correct grammar, arrogant demeanors, victim complexes, and Little Mac (who has yet to miss a bullsh*t leak as far as I've seen).

Of course, 'Nintendo Uncles' still top the list of leak tropes...hmm, maybe it's time someone took up Chrono's idea of authoring a leak featuring them all.

 

[Banjodorf]

Of course, 'Nintendo Uncles' still top the list of leak tropes...hmm, maybe it's time someone took up Chrono's idea of authoring a leak featuring them all.

I'd love to, but I feel like if I did, I'd get too hopeful in the end that I might actually turn out right! So then when I didn't, aww...

That K. Rool rumor was debunked a while ago, but I'm hoping we'll at least be thrown SOME kind of bone in TF, and also obviously for the Kremling King's triumphant return in Smash 4!

 

[Kamikazek]

You know, 'find out' dates and reveals are becoming more and more common in these bullsh*t leaks, along with correct grammar, arrogant demeanors, victim complexes, and Little Mac (who has yet to miss a bullsh*t leak as far as I've seen).

Of course, 'Nintendo Uncles' still top the list of leak tropes...hmm, maybe it's time someone took up Chrono's idea of authoring a leak featuring them all.

"My friend Little Mac, who works for Nintendo, has given me some inside information on the new Smash Bros.. He has confirmed that My Uncle will be announced as a playable character on December 31st as an homage to all the great Uncles who have allegedly worked for Nintendo. If you don't believe me, you are a terrible, hurtful person. Also I am Jesus.
King K. Rool will not be playable as he has already been made into a Pokeball Pokémon. Ridley will only appear as a tiny icon that flies around the game's menu screens and give's helpful information when clicked on."

There you go.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'd like to come back on what BKupa said earlier, how a Retro / PAON combination would work for a DKC game. Honestly, I think that would be one of the best things ever to happen to the series. PAON cares a great deal for the Kremlings. Even felt it fit to create their own ones. With personality even! I'd love to see what they could do with an actual platformer. I really, really enjoyed DK Jungle Climber for example. And still feel that that game captures the DKC spirit of Rare the best out of all released DK games since the buyout.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

From a gameplay standpoint I still think Retro captured the spirit of DKC the best, but as far as characters, yeah. Paon nailed it best obviously. A kind of partnership between them for a DK title would be interesting in the sense that we could have the best of both...

@ IsmaR: To be fair, every Metroid/character thread doubles as an Other M hate thread.

So BKupa, how goes DK64 now?

 

[Deleted member]

I was surprised K. Rool didn't get in Brawl for how popular he was. As much as I love Donkey Kong Country Returns for its graphics, music, and level design, I can't help but be disappointed for the lack of Kremlings and how forgettable the villains were in DKCR. Tropical Freeze isn't looking any better for the Kremlings even still...

I support K. Rool for SSB4 since I see tremendous moveset potential and I do like King K. Rool for the various amounts of roles he has taken, his boss battles are pretty neat (love the final boss music in the original DKC), and K. Rool himself is a pretty cool character.

I am hoping that the Kremlings do get some love eventually. But, in the mean time, I hope he gets into SSB4.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I really, really wanna play DK64 to. But I already had bad experiences playing Banjo-Kazooie with my jammed N64 controlstick...

 

[BridgesWithTurtles]

Hmm...a Paon/Retro collaboration could be interesting. I've never played the Paon games, though I was aware of them. How was the characterization in that? I remember K. Rool being a little...odd, even for K. Rool.

What Kupa said about the DK "universe" is pretty agreeable. I've always felt that if Retro's goal was to flesh out the DK universe in their own "unique" way, then generic tikis and cartoon animals (Checkpoint Pig, the Vikings, etc.) wasn't really a good indicator of that intention. Personally, I'd just like to see the various DK "worlds" tied together into a cohesive universe. Drawing elements from the Rare games, the Retro material, Jungle Beat, the Paon games, and the arcade classics. Have them all feel like they're part of the same canon, and not the very disparate, individual attempts at defining the DK 'verse that they really are. That's what I'd like to see. The Prime trilogy, while definitely its own entity, still does a good enough job at tying itself into the greater Metroid universe.

 

[Deleted member]

I really, really wanna play DK64 to. But I already had bad experiences playing Banjo-Kazooie with my jammed N64 controlstick...

I had Donkey Kong 64... I never gotten far in it...

 

[Groose]

He WAS playable in both Barrel Blast (Underrated game imo) and Super Sluggers, so yeah.

Is Barrel Blast actually any good? Review scores and the word of one of my buddies turned me off from it. If it's any good, I'd love to pick it up now for a bargain price.

I had Donkey Kong 64... I never gotten far in it...

It's not as good as the DKC games. Heck, despite the hate this will garner for me, I preferred Returns over DK64. Still, it was a very good game.

I really, really wanna play DK64 to. But I already had bad experiences playing Banjo-Kazooie with my jammed N64 controlstick...

My controllers still work fine... but my expansion pack does not. Therefore, I can safely say my DK64 cartridge won't be used in the near future.

It seems like the only N64 games I've played recently have been Smash, Snap, and Kart. I need to have an N64 night soon...