K. Rool's Kremling Kutthroats: PM BKupa666 for an Invite to the New K. Rool Thread

[Cutie Gwen]

Ic gw rob and duck hunt are still unique and beloved characters in smash. the others are clones and therefore free characters. I woild rather have a wide range of characters instead of who is popular.

Yes characters can be popular and unique but that doesnt detract from the retros.

That reminds me, why do people hate ROB again?

What if...Retro releases both DKCR3 and MP4 and K.Rool appears as the main villain in the former and as an easter egg in the latter?

 

[A Distant Demon]

That reminds me, why do people hate ROB again?

What if...Retro releases both DKCR3 and MP4 and K.Rool appears as the main villain in the former and as an easter egg in the latter?

K rool kraid skin.

J/s

 

[ArturoLamilla]

Incredible news! It could mean that Nintendo is planning something for DK like DLC for Smash 4 :o

 

[Xzsmmc]

Actually, Dark Pit scored first place in a popularity poll in a children's magazine, if it was for the general public, the results would be different, and you are implying the clone characters were intended to be put in since the beginning

Yeah, but Waluigi scored above Palutena in that poll.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Yeah, but Waluigi scored above Palutena in that poll.

My post was not to justify Dark Pit, nothing can, my post was to spread the word that Dark Pit was popular

 

[cephalopod17]

As soon as I save up enough money to get a New 3DS, the whole DKC trilogy is released. Time to start downloading the DKC trilogy.

 

[toadster101]

False, he was highly requested by Japan. Yes, they wanted more than a clone, but still

Actually, Dark Pit scored first place in a popularity poll in a children's magazine, if it was for the general public, the results would be different, and you are implying the clone characters were intended to be put in since the beginning

Can people stop spreading this myth around? He was never highly requested in Japan. Ever. And this "popularity" poll in question had absolutely nothing to do with Smash. And it was conducted like a month after Kid Icarus: Uprising was released. And Dark Pit lost to Chrom, Waluigi, and Hatsune Miku. I can't wait until they introduce Metal Mario as a playable character in Smash 5. People will delude themselves into believing that he was a highly requested, popular, unique candidate in order to justify Sakurai's decision.

Here's a picture from 2012:

Now here's a picture from 2013, a year after the release of Uprising:

No Dark Pit? No Palutena? Pit dropping ten spots!? Wait... wasn't 2013 the Year of Luigi? Is that why Luigi won the poll? This is a classic case of release hype syndrome. Characters from recently released games will always have a spike in popularity. What matters more is checking their popularity after that period subsides. You know, like a certain mentally unstable reptile who is still popular despite not having a prominent role in years. Mega Man, Palutena, Shulk, and K. Rool have always been the most popular newcomer choices in Japan, alongside the cut Melee veterans. One of these things is not like the other. One of these things just doesn't belong. Can you tell which thing is not like the others by the time I finish my song? There's a reason why people accuse Sakurai of being biased. You can blame Retro all you want, but I think they would have been more willing to include the Kremlings if they knew their decisions would have an effect on the Super Smash Bros. series. Who wouldn't? He's such an obvious choice, and yet here we are.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I didn't mean Dark Pit was THAT popular, but that he was a very popular character then and still today, just not in Smash

Can people stop spreading this myth around? He was never highly requested in Japan. Ever. And this "popularity" poll in question had absolutely nothing to do with Smash. And it was conducted like a month after Kid Icarus: Uprising was released. And Dark Pit lost to Chrom, Waluigi, and Hatsune Miku. I can't wait until they introduce Metal Mario as a playable character in Smash 5. People will delude themselves into believing that he was a highly requested, popular, unique candidate in order to justify Sakurai's decision.

Here's a picture from 2012:


Now here's a picture from 2013, a year after the release of Uprising:


No Dark Pit? No Palutena? Pit dropping ten spots? Wait... wasn't 2013 the Year of Luigi? Is that why Luigi won the poll? This is a classic case of release hype syndrome. Characters from recently released games will always have a spike in popularity. What matters more is checking their popularity after that period subsides. You know, like a certain mentally unstable reptile who is still popular despite not having a prominent role in years. Mega Man, Palutena, Shulk, and K. Rool have always been the most popular newcomer choices in Japan, alongside the cut Melee veterans. One of these things is not like the other. One of these things just doesn't belong. Can you tell which thing is not like the others by the time I finish my song? There's a reason why people accuse Sakurai of being biased. You can blame Retro Studios all you want, but I think they would have been more willing to include the Kremlings if they knew their decisions would have an effect on the Super Smash Bros. series. Who wouldn't? He's such an obvious choice, and yet here are.

 

[A Distant Demon]

I mean dark pit was still a clone/alt so its not like he repaced anyone on that list more popular than him anyway. (Unless alph was on there i guess)

 

[Xzsmmc]

I mean dark pit was still a clone/alt so its not like he repaced anyone on that list more popular than him anyway. (Unless alph was on there i guess)

That's not why I dislike Dark Pit. I don't like him because he is literally a palette swap in terms of appearance, a side character in precisely one game, is almost a complete clone unlike the other two, and the reason for his inclusion is the absolute most asinine thing I've ever heard.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

I heard of the virtual consles release nice

But king k rool is far from shoe-in (now i am a bog suporter of king k rool)

I mean for one mewtwo needs to commence sakurai for more, and also sakurai needs to accept him as a dlc character (takamaru is a good example of highly wanted characters that failed)

 

[toadster101]

I heard of the virtual consles release nice

But king k rool is far from shoe-in (now i am a bog suporter of king k rool)

I mean for one mewtwo needs to commence sakurai for more, and also sakurai needs to accept him as a dlc character (takamaru is a good example of highly wanted characters that failed)

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Relax im confident mewtwo will succed on commencing for more.

And these new virtual conseles help him significatly.

 

[BKupa666]

"Popular in Japan" is a meaningless phrase, generally thrown around to justify characters who really aren't popular anywhere. Thankfully, that recent social media study gave at least some evidence that Japan's preferences are largely similar to our own, just with more veteran love and less Ridley love.

 

[BowserK.Rool]

Beat DKC1 today all by myself, I'm so proud being how I only beat it once with help from a friend of mine on my actual snes console. Of course, the restore points for the wii u is what defintley helped me out a bit(believe me I still struggled through those tough levels). Now I'm working on DKC2.

 

[King_K_Rules]

I needed help beating KAOS when I was younger, so I brought my game to a neighbor's house. Felt good to finally get the other ski!

 

[AwesomeCauliflower68]

is there a kremling kampaigner facebook page, and if there isn't do you guys think we should have one?

 

[Dre89]

Ic gw rob and duck hunt are still unique and beloved characters in smash. the others are clones and therefore free characters. I woild rather have a wide range of characters instead of who is popular.

Yes characters can be popular and unique but that doesnt detract from the retros.

Any character who gets put in the game will eventually become loved because people play them for years in Smash games. 99% of people upset about ICs getting cut probably never played the original game, or considered it one of their favourites.

By not putting in the highly requested and deserving characters you're basically saying you don't care what the fans want.

It's true that clones are sort of 'extra' characters, but I think in that case people would have preferred a more deserving semi-clone like Dixie. Dark Pit would have never been the clone of choice if the director hadn't worked on KI. Even Dr. Mario might not have made it had the director not personally enjoyed his jingle.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Any character who gets put in the game will eventually become loved because people play them for years in Smash games. 99% of people upset about ICs getting cut probably never played the original game, or considered it one of their favourites.

And? You say that like it's a bad thing.

That's the point of crossover games. To introduce people to series they might have missed out on.

An obscurity here and there deepens the pot.

By not putting in the highly requested and deserving characters you're basically saying you don't care what the fans want.

Except, as others have stated, he did.

were part of the Smashboards Elite Four.

all had notable amounts of requests.

got in because they are known and loved by millions of gamers and non gamers alike.

is a Pokemon.

both had extraordinary circumstances. Counting them isn't quite fair though Lucina had quite a bit of support.

is the only real outlier. But even then, people grew to love her.

Yeah, Ridley and Dixie and/or K.Rool didn't get in (and I'm sad about that) but there were other popular characters. A good chunk of them got in. It's not perfect, but admirable nontheless.

It's true that clones are sort of 'extra' characters, but I think in that case people would have preferred a more deserving semi-clone like Dixie. Dark Pit would have never been the clone of choice if the director hadn't worked on KI. Even Dr. Mario might not have made it had the director not personally enjoyed his jingle.

Now this is just an uneducated opinion.

only exist as characters because they were all originally costumes like and the Koopalings. They were super last minute. Moreso than Melee's clones.

You really can't compare Dixie to them.

Unless, you think Dixie could have been a costume.

 

[ShinyRegice]

So the Donkey Kong Country trilogy is finally released in America? Awesome news. Though rather irrelevant to me because I'm European, but I take this as a reminder that I need to download those games, and anyway, congratulations to American players for finally getting them!

Anyway, I think that I'll add a King K. Rool support icon in my sig now. I always viewed him as a very logical character addition in Super Smash Bros. and the original Donkey Kong Trilogy games are among the most influencing of my childhood. I also remember how the graphics blew me away in early 2000s and I still find them to look good even as of today. Hopefully our favourite crocodile king will come back soon in main series Donkey Kong games!

Also, his victory theme should definitely not be the same as Donkey and Diddy, it would probably be inspired from Gangplank Galleon's theme instead. Speaking of the DK victory theme, I honestly find it to sound kind of bland. The same theme from Smash 64, Melee, DKCR and especially the original DKC all sound much more joyful imo.

 

[Frostwraith]

What @ Swamp Sensei said, I pretty much agree with.

Yes, Sakurai didn't include Ridley, Dixie Kong or K. Rool, but outside of them, he did include pretty much all of the most desired characters for Smash 4. It's a complete disrespect to say he didn't include popular characters at all just because a few of the top wants were omitted.

He does add oddball characters, but pretty much every crossover does that... And the respective fanbases complain about them because "muh popularity".

To be honest, I think it's more Sakurai bias to base most Kirby stuff from his games (and not giving attention to Kirby's latest games) than easily porting a bunch of stuff from KIU on the 3DS version (that didn't take as much of development time and resources as other things in the game). The KIU enemies in Smash Run are pretty much filler to add gameplay diversity to the mode since a lot of those enemies aren't even iconic (unlike enemies such as Goombas, Octoroks, Metroids, Waddle Dees or Mettaurs), but they do bring unique sorts of obstacles the other enemies don't bring. I'd say this was pragmatism on Sakurai's part rather than simple bias and being a show off about his previous work. Using assets from previous projects is a common practice to save development time. The SSE enemies and Mario enemies returning from Brawl are also ported from that game.

Say what you will about the KIU enemies, but Smash Run has easily the best enemy cast of any Smash Bros. game, spanning a ton of different series and even bringing back enemies from Melee that weren't in Brawl. Brawl was absolutely awful in that regard, since it only included original enemies aside from Mario enemies. (Though I'm happy that some SSE enemies made into Smash Run as a sort of continuity nod.)

Lastly, yeah, I agree that K. Rool should get his own victory theme based on his boss theme.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

known and loved by millions of gamers and non gamers alike

Eeeeh....debatable.

As for bias, it's pretty obvious that Sakurai is focusing on promoting the bigger Nintendo franchises. Compare the Mario character list in 4;

Mario
Dr. Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
Bowser Jr.
Larry
Lemmy
Ludwig
Roy
Wendy
Iggy
Yoshi
Wario
Rosalina

To the Metroid character list in 4;

Samus
Zero Suit Samus

And it's pretty obvious where the bias is at.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Eeeeh....debatable.

As for bias, it's pretty obvious that Sakurai is focusing on promoting the bigger Nintendo franchises. Compare the Mario character list in 4;


To the Metroid character list in 4;


And it's pretty obvious where the bias is at.

Well thats just cheating to count the koopalings. (Some would debate yoshi and wario but this isny the place for it)

Plus mario is ever so much larger than metroid. It makes sense that nintendos mascot gets a little love.

Dk would have been a much better comparison. I mean you are in a dk thread

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Well thats just cheating to count the koopalings. (Some would debate yoshi and wario but this isny the place for it)

Plus mario is ever so much larger than metroid. It makes sense that nintendos mascot gets a little love.

Dk would have been a much better comparison. I mean you are in a dk thread

He wanted to emphasize that Metroid, an extremely popular franchise, is only repped by Samus

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

Well thats just cheating to count the koopalings.

It's not cheating to include the Koopalings just because they share Bowser Jr.'s slot. They're still separate characters, even if they take up the same slot; they have different voices and announcer clips instead of reusing Bowser Jr.'s.

(Some would debate yoshi and wario but this isny the place for it)

Yoshi is a Mario character that also happened to have developed his own series along the line, as did Wario. As long as they debuted in a Mario game, they count as Mario characters even if they have their own spinoffs. We don't call Tails a Tails character instead of a Sonic character just because he had his own spinoff games (Tails' Skypatrol and Tails' Adventures), so why call Yoshi a Yoshi character under the same principle? Wario's a little better off, since WarioWare is obviously not a Mario spinoff; but he's still a Mario character.

 

[FalKoopa]

Both Wario Land and Wario Ware have little to do with Mario series. The only link Wario has to the Mario series is that he keeps appearing in the spin-off games, but so does Donkey Kong. In contrast, Yoshi's games literally take place in the Mario Universe.

Speaking of spin-offs, Donkey Kong is the probably the only Nintendo series outside of Mario to have its own spin-offs in the Mario Vs. DK and Donkey Konga.

-----------------------------------------

K. Rool's Victory theme should be based on Brawl's Gangplank Galleon remix.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Both Wario Land and Wario Ware have little to do with Mario series. The only link Wario has to the Mario series is that he keeps appearing in the spin-off games, but so does Donkey Kong. In contrast, Yoshi's games literally take place in the Mario Universe.

Speaking of spin-offs, Donkey Kong is the probably the only Nintendo series outside of Mario to have its own spin-offs in the Mario Vs. DK and Donkey Konga.

-----------------------------------------

K. Rool's Victory theme should be based on Brawl's Gangplank Galleon remix.

Don't forget Barrel Blast, Jungle Beat, and King of Swing/Jungle Climber. Diddy Kong Racing is technically a DK spinoff, though originally it wasn't planned to be DK-related at all.


Of course, all of these spinoffs were during the downtime except Diddy Kong Racing. But I still think DK will likely get spinoff games again in the future, they've been shifting DK away from Mario a bit by dropping Diddy Kong from Mario Kart and they've still been avoiding adding Diddy Kong in other Mario spinoffs, or adding even more DK characters.

 

[FalKoopa]

Diddy's absence in Mario spin-offs is a very recent thing. We had Funky of all people in MKWii. I'll wait until a Wii U golf or tennis game before calling this a confirmed trend.

 

[JamesDNaux]

If Diddy Kong Racing 2 is ever a thing, it absolutely needs the new guys from Playtonic's upcoming game.

Imagine the Banjo expy making his debut in a racing game. Then getting bought by M$. And having a lego block car game that everyone hates.

 

[BKupa666]

Mewtwo not being in the default roster is a solid point to the credit of @ Dre89 , in that even though Mewtwo, K. Rool and Ridley were the top three most wanted Nintendo characters (Ridley being debatable due to Japan), none had priority over this game's shocks, one-offs or otherwise comparatively less desirable choices.

And it's not just a case of "Oh, we got X number of popular characters, we met our quota," it's that the most notable ones weren't there. People want Mega Man and people want Brash the Bear, are they suddenly equivalent on that basis alone? (well, bad example, because yes they are, but yeah)

K. Rool absolutely deserves his own victory theme...happy, cheery panflutes don't exactly fit his personality all that well.

 

[Wintropy]

A Smash game full of nothing but the popular kids would be a terribly dull game, if you ask me.

Smash has this profoundly democratic method of making everybody, for better or for worse, into a star.

 

[toadster101]

Mewtwo not being in the default roster is a solid point to the credit of @ Dre89 , in that even though Mewtwo, K. Rool and Ridley were the top three most wanted Nintendo characters (Ridley being debatable due to Japan), none had priority over this game's shocks, one-offs or otherwise comparatively less desirable choices.

Part of me thinks they excluded popular characters like Mewtwo on purpose because they know that the fans will happily spend additional money. If true, this bodes well for K. Rool. However, I'm not particularly bond of this business practice.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Mewtwo not being in the default roster is a solid point to the credit of @ Dre89 , in that even though Mewtwo, K. Rool and Ridley were the top three most wanted Nintendo characters (Ridley being debatable due to Japan), none had priority over this game's shocks, one-offs or otherwise comparatively less desirable choices.

Mewtwo being by far one of, if not the most heavily requested characters world-wide and being the one character with seemingly nothing going against him, as well as actually being the "hot Pokemon" for Gen 6 makes his exclusion from the initial roster all the more bizarre. As for characters based off fan demand... well, at the end of the day fan demand didn't really have that major of a factor in the roster. It got us Mega Man for sure. But there were indeed many characters that got in without fan demand having anything to do with their inclusion.


(didn't get particularly fan-demanded until long after the roster was finalized, around the time she was confirmed for 3D World)
(Sakurai even admitted his inclusion had nothing to do with popularity)
(As a person who supported Pac-Man, trust me when I know that the general perception of Pac-Man around the time I joined this site was that he was an "expected, but not wanted character")
and(Miis were never remotely among the most commonly requested characters, having a similar "expected, but not wanted" mentality thrown at them. The idea of them having 3 different movesets were almost never brought up, nor were there anyone who really asked for that)
(similar to Rosalina, only really got particularly notable amounts of requests long after the roster was finalised. Over in Japan in 2012, it was Roy, Chrom and Lucina who were more requested than Robin)


Out of the 15 non-clone characters, 9 of them certainly nothing to do with fan-demand either due to being commonly requested far too late to have an impact, being outright scorned or never really majorly considered by the fanbase.( Apparently, Sakurai's statement about the Villager was the only reason why there weren't as much demand for him due to him being seen as having no chance by many people).

I still find all of these characters, except for the multiple Miis, to be great additions to the roster, so I'm not complaining about them.

 

[Wintropy]

I still find all of these characters, except for the multiple Miis, to be great additions to the roster, so I'm not complaining about them.

I like this mentality. This is a good mentality to have. :3

 

[FalKoopa]

I personally think that fan demand wasn't as big of a factor the time. It was far more of an important factor in Brawl and Melee, and Sakurai knowingly decided to go for characters who he could innovate with in moveset capabilities.

That probably explains why we got two shock characters ( and, though the latter was a brilliant stroke).
and were obviously chose because of what they could offer for their moveset.
was chosen because Namco. The most Pac-hate was largely because of his horrible Ghostly Adventures design, and subsided immediately once people saw how faithful he was to classic Pac-Man.
were chosen because they are practically everywhere. I don't think Sakurai had an option to not include them.

This is my take on his choices.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I choose to believe popularity was not a huge factor because Sakurai has known DLC was an option from the beginning.

He is a game designer, for him to claim it wasn't on his radar is not only as nonsensical as for him to say he wasn't thinking about promotion, but is completely refuted when he make a claims as he has recently, about how companies handle DLC, such as STEAM.
The truth is that DLC is a flagship component of modern gaming; Of course it was on his mind the entire process, even if he ha not decided how to implement it.

 

[Frostwraith]

I personally think that fan demand wasn't as big of a factor the time. It was far more of an important factor in Brawl and Melee, and Sakurai knowingly decided to go for characters who he could innovate with in moveset capabilities.

That probably explains why we got two shock characters ( and, though the latter was a brilliant stroke).
and were obviously chose because of what they could offer for their moveset.
was chosen because Namco. The most Pac-hate was largely because of his horrible Ghostly Adventures design, and subsided immediately once people saw how faithful he was to classic Pac-Man.
were chosen because they are practically everywhere. I don't think Sakurai had an option to not include them.

This is my take on his choices.

I can agree with that.

Melee and Brawl had loads of hugely popular characters as newcomers: Bowser, Peach, Zelda, Ganondorf, Wario, Diddy Kong, Meta Knight, King Dedede, Olimar, Sonic and several others. Mewtwo as in Melee but cut in Brawl (though he was planned for the latter).

This game, outside of Dixie Kong, K. Rool, Ridley and Mewtwo, had no very iconic characters to add, as Melee and Brawl covered those voids already as mentioned above, so Sakurai went more on his own choices and what he thought he could work well in Smash. He's a game designer, after all.

Plus, I agree with @ pupNapoleon in the post above. Sakurai knows about DLC, data dumps show both versions the game are designed to handle DLC and he chose Mewtwo, of all characters, to kick start DLC distribution. This might seem shady, but a very wise business decision. He knows people get excited for new characters in Smash and that can be exploited.

A game like Smash can always get more and more DLC, because you can always add something to it.

Let's be honest: characters like the Wii Fit Trainer or the clones wouldn't really sell well as separate content, so that's why they're included in the initial package. Speaking for myself and being a major Smash Bros. fan, I'll likely end up getting any and all character+stage DLC, but that isn't necessarily the case for everyone.

What is more attractive to a large public as DLC? Wii Fit Trainer or Mewtwo?

Sakurai did address popularity, but he didn't address all of the popular choices.

Finally, it is wise that Sakurai hasn't planned any DLC beyond Mewtwo (at least, at the time of the interview where he stated that). This ensures that additional content is made and released after the game has gained a large userbase and add legitimacy to it, as in, you're paying for extra content that was made beyond the initial full package.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Let's be honest: characters like the Wii Fit Trainer or the clones wouldn't really sell well as separate content

For a second I thought you meant that their games wouldn't sell outside Smash

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

The problem comes when Sakurai doesn't leave his options open fully, which happened with Ridley. Sakurai knows how popular the character is in America, but he went and slapped Ridley in the game without thinking of the potential money such an enormous announcement could get.

I mean, even the detractors are probably going to buy the DLC anyways, just because it's more content. Everyone makes such a big scene about CoD mappacks, but you know they all buy them anyways; same thing with Ridley, just in a different context.
Besides, buying him means that they can beat him up in Training Mode.

 

[BowserK.Rool]

*Eats bag of popcorn* For once I actually find these "Characters are popular to these and popular to those" arguments really amusing. Donkey Kong Country I love you. xD

I'll be back when this thread calms down a bit or when I hear anything new from Nintendo regarding DK or K.Rool.