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K. Rool's Kremling Kutthroats: PM BKupa666 for an Invite to the New K. Rool Thread

Cyberguy64

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Okay, honest response, can we please stop it with the "anime character" vitriol? It's an absolute platitude, it doesn't mean anything. By virtue of the fact that "anime" in Japan refers to animation as a medium, every character in Smash that's been on television or movies can be construed as "anime" to a Japanese audience. Even K. Rool, by virtue of the DKC cartoon.

I don't mind people expressing their opinions, I don't intend to impose a gag order for expressing distaste towards "pretty faces with swords", but it makes me sigh every time I hear people cite it as a bona fide injustice. It's just as bad as saying "kay rool sux cuz he is a ugly gator [sic]": it's judging a character based on external qualia rather than the integrity of the character itself. It's petty and makes me feel that the K. Rool fanbase has the same insecurities about their favourite character that the gators haters do with their own favourite character.

Just be cool, okay? Militant distaste just breeds absolute discontent.

EDIT: I know it's gonna be brought up, so I want to clarify this.

I don't mean it's cool to jilt fat, nerdy K. Rool in favour of the popular, pretty jock, but when "anime characters" and their fans manifest in the form of the phantom enemy that wishes to destabilise K. Rool support, I need to question a few fellas' priorities.
I find your distaste for my distaste distasteful.

If you don't like, "Anime" as the derogatory term, how about relatively realistic, generic human character?

I like K. Rool for the same reasons I'm sick of the Fire Emblem characters and their Anime-esque ilk. He's unique, he's cartoony, he oozes personality, and he's got traits and abilities no other character has.
 

Talpr1

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Funny how we were just discussing how anime can be considered animation as a medium in Japan, and Nintendo reveals that the new head honcho may well bridge the gap between eastern and western cultures.

A DKC anime would be hype, that said. I'd love to see DK "ORAORAORAORA!" K. Rool into the moon~
This kind of scene is better suited for a Smash Bros. anime :^)
 

BKupa666

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With regard to the anime thing, I don't think most people in here have anything against the anime design, so to speak (which, let's be clear, is about the same-y swordsman archtype, not literally any character who's been in an anime). It's that we're in a situation where our character is a starving streetrat, so to speak, while these anime swordsmen are bloated aristocrats, and when there's about to be a handful of free meals handed out, we think it's our turn to feast for once. Hard not to empathize with that IMO.
 

Wintropy

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No offense, @ BKupa666 BKupa666 , but I can't really empathise with that. I respect you a ton and I love your turn of phrase, but sometimes you just overdo it and it comes off as melodramatic to the highest degree. I mean, come on, we're talking about characters in a video game, it isn't that Robin killed your family and won the eyes of your krocodile lover. That kind of sensationalist imagery really rubs me the wrong way.

I don't disagree with anything being said, I just resent this Cold War-esque "us versus them" mantra that inevitably creeps into this manner of discussion.

To sate my own curiosity, I decided to determine what the percentage of "anime" characters in the roster is. If we count 18 of the 54-character roster as fitting that notion, then just over 31% of the roster is "anime". Bear in mind I'm being extremely generous and counting Captain Falcon, Peach, Rosalina, Ryu, Link, Toon Link, Sheik and Zero Suit Samus as "anime" and female Robin as a separate character for the sake of quantitative data. If we eliminate the above six, then we have 11 characters of of 54, which amount to just over 20%. One-fifth of a character of over 50 characters isn't that much, especially when you consider that this is the first time in the series when there's been this distinct a quantity of this kind of character:

If we count Captain Falcon and Link in 64, then 17% of the roster fits the criteria; otherwise it's nil.

If we count Captain Falcon, Link, Young Link, Peach, Zelda and Sheik in addition Marth and Roy in Melee, it's 32%, which is higher than Smash 4, but it's 8% if we just count Marth and Roy.

If we count Captain Falcon, Link, Toon Link, Peach, Zelda, Sheik and Zero Suit Samus in addition to Marth, Ike and Pit in Brawl, it's 24%, but it's just 7% if we count, Marth, Ike and Pit.

I don't think it's a massive crime for there to be more "generic anime swordfighters" in Smash, especially considering only two of them are clones (I don't count Roy, he's distinguished himself from the character he was a clone of).

The issue here is that K. Rool is still waiting for his Smash invitation. This has nothing to do with the amount of "anime" characters in Smash. Pretty swordfighters didn't make it to Sakurai's design sheet because he resents K. Rool. It just happened that way. You can say what you want about other characters, I don't care, but it really does serve to undermine this image we've created that deigns the Kutthroat Krew as the nicest, most open-minded fanbase in the community.
 
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Honestly, I think that the Krew is essentially going through a similar situation as the Pirates have, but not to the same level. Where Ridley's supporters have been getting dragged through the mud since Brawl, K.Rool's supporters have been continually shot down as Sakurai puts other characters and franchises before DK. The recent surge of hate and trolling against K.Rool mirrors the hate and trolling around Ridley disturbingly well, even down to the reasonings they put forth against the character (too big, would just be a clone, irrelevancy, better candidates).

Where the Pirates were essentially forced into hiding because of the trolling and hate their character has been saddled with in addition to Sakurai shooting them down again, the Kutthroats still have tonnes of people being supportive of the character, enough to drown out whatever hate that may be spewed. The Pirates have, essentially, become somewhat jaded and spiteful over years of verbal assault due to their opinions, while the Kutthroats don't have that same jading and spite.

But it doesn't mean they might not develop it.
 

Raxxel

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You got it! It was reported on here. The job listing itself has since been taken down (so has very likely been filled), so the article's source link is now dead.
Well I'll be damned, we might seriously be getting a Nintendo direct soon!
 

Dustydog96

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Before anything else happens, i want to apologize to GameFaqs since i thought that was the most toxic place.

4chan is now the place which i will never go to.

EDIT: I didn't realized until now, but apparently 4chan has a lot of Wonder Red "supporters".
That may be the reason as to why they don't want to belive on this poll since Wonder Red isn't even on the top 50 as far as im concerned.
If by "wonder red supporters" you mean a group of 20, at most, who are a super vocal minority who roam 4chan and use vote-bots on polls. Then sure. Not even hating It's just the truth.
 
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BKupa666

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No offense, @ BKupa666 BKupa666 , but I can't really empathise with that. I respect you a ton and I love your turn of phrase, but sometimes you just overdo it and it comes off as melodramatic to the highest degree. I mean, come on, we're talking about characters in a video game, it isn't that Robin killed your family and won the eyes of your krocodile lover. That kind of sensationalist imagery really rubs me the wrong way.
Yeah, I too dislike the us vs. them mentality that makes speculation such a drag, but at the same time, I do understand why fans are upset, K. Rool fans in particular. And I don't fault them for feeling that way...one can feel and talk passionately about a video game while at the same time, keeping things in context and knowing, ultimately, this isn't a huge deal in the world.

You're right in that the core problem is that K. Rool isn't in the game, which I've talked about before as well...going into this game, he and Ridley were two of the last major Nintendo characters not in the game, and so long as they (and a few others) were added, people would be generally happy with the roster. It was such a simple task, but it didn't happen.

When it didn't, the characters that leapfrogged them in line became the targets of our ire, and they just so happened to all share a similar aesthetic: conventionally attractive human protagonists with spiked hair and overlarge eyes, often wielding a sword and speaking 'bad***' one-liners (Rosalina, Palutena, Shulk, Robin, Lucina, Dark Pit, Roy returning). It's not that we haven't gotten characters like that before, but that they were never added in such volume before while others got left in the dust. And if it were any other type of character (shock, cutesy, 'dark' evil, etc.), the same complaints would occur in their direction. This is just how the chips fell.

Going into the ballot's endgame, I don't intend to make a spectacle of things if K. Rool isn't in, since we have already won in many ways, but at the same time, no one should feel like they have to police their language if they don't like specific characters in the game, just so long as they're not being overtly negative and especially attacking other fans. That's something the other mods and I won't stand for, for sure.
 
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Wintropy

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Yeah, I too dislike the us vs. them mentality that makes speculation such a drag, but at the same time, I do understand why fans are upset, K. Rool fans in particular. And I don't fault them for feeling that way...one can feel and talk passionately about a video game while at the same time, keeping things in context and knowing, ultimately, this isn't a huge deal in the world.

You're right in that the core problem is that K. Rool isn't in the game, which I've talked about before as well...going into this game, he and Ridley were two of the last major Nintendo characters not in the game, and so long as they (and a few others) were added, people would be generally happy with the roster. It was such a simple task, but it didn't happen. When it didn't, the characters that leapfrogged them in line became the targets of our ire, and they just so happened to all share a similar aesthetic: conventionally attractive human protagonists with spiked hair and overlarge eyes (Rosalina, Palutena, Shulk, Robin, Lucina, Dark Pit, Roy returning). If it were any other type of character (shock, cutesy, 'dark' evil, etc.), the same complaints would occur in their direction. This is just how the chips fell.

Going into the ballot's endgame, I don't intend to make a spectacle of things if K. Rool isn't in, since we have already won in many ways, but at the same time, no one should feel like they have to police their language if they don't like specific characters in the game, just so long as they're not being overtly negative and especially attacking other fans.
Oh, I do understand why fans are upset. They've every right to be. I did say I don't intend to censor the complaints, freedom of expression and all that jazzmatazz, but when I keep hearing the same comments that target the kind of characters I play, I can't help but feel a tad estranged from the community. Burden is on me to justify unintended inference, it isn't rational to think that, but then it isn't rational to get upset with fans of bug-eyed sword-boys for fundamentally unrelated reasons. This is why I dislike the "us versus them" mentality, because goodness knows everybody in the community is irrational and prone to silly whims when it suits.

Funny that, when I played Brawl, I tended to say to myself, "Wow I sure do love the style of Marth, Ike and Pit! Shame there isn't more characters of that style in the game. I'd be happy with that. Oh well, I'm just gonna play the clunky robot in the meantime."
 

Tortilla Noggin

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but when I keep hearing the same comments that target the kind of characters I play, I can't help but feel a tad estranged from the community.
Funny that, when I played Brawl, I tended to say to myself, "Wow I sure do love the style of Marth, Ike and Pit! Shame there isn't more characters of that style in the game. I'd be happy with that. Oh well, I'm just gonna play the clunky robot in the meantime."
I've usually stayed quiet on this issue when it's come up, before, but this has prompted me to share a thought on it. :p

I just can't understand the "Us vs. Them" mentality as it specifically regards what ultimately amounts to different art-styles that intentionally clash within the same game. There are plenty of characters on the roster that I don't care about (and there are also plenty that I do like, of course), but you'll never hear a complaint from me, because I know that all of them have their fans even if I'm not one myself, and that alone warrants their inclusion. Not only that, but the crossover aspect is part of the point of the game. Surely this is the same for a lot of players, regardless of their particular tastes?

Honestly, I've always felt that part of the appeal of Smash is that very crossing of styles*. It wouldn't be nearly as interesting or hilarious otherwise!

*To end on a light note, I've noticed that this sometimes leads to amusing comments from non-gaming types. One that I got from an amused onlooker - who saw me, as Dedede, facing off against another player, as Marth - not very long ago was as follows: "It must be galling for those people who look like real fighters to find themselves faced with a big duck-thing wearing a bobble-hat.". The outside perspective was... interesting. :laugh:
 
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Maxoxpower

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can't believe palutena is in smash 4 but no K.Rool :( ( or Dixie..).... YET!
 
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BowserK.Rool

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Or just doesn't like him
That's basically D sugar coated.

Well since I'm here might as well ask this question witch design do you like better?
classic king k rool

or

modern king k rool



for me like modern king k rool better I just like he has more muscles the his
classic counterpart.
Classic version, looks more tougher and meaner. Plus he has a tail.
 

Wintropy

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can't believe palutena is in smash 4 but no K.Rool :( ( or Dixie..).... YET!
To be fair, context is important here.

If K. Rool and / or Dixie had been in a game released before Smash 4's design process, I think they'd be in for sure.
 

GreenKirby

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Which is still a bs excuse considering K.Rool and Dixie already had 3D models to use. Even then barring playable reps, DK doesn't even have assist trophies. So your defense holds no weight considering Cranky and Rambi were both in Returns. The animals brainwashed by the Tikis could have been boss characters.

Keep in mind, Greninja was designed completely from scratch and Rosalina shifts in height so many times, it's unccany (in 3D World, she's barely taller than Luigi)

So much potential.
 
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Wintropy

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Which is still a bs excuse considering K.Rool and Dixie already had 3D models to use. Even then barring playable reps, DK doesn't even have assist trophies. So your defense holds no weight considering Cranky and Rambi were both in Returns. The animals brainwashed by the Tikis could have been boss characters.

Keep in mind, Greninja was designed completely from scratch and Rosalina shifts in height so many times, it's unccany (in 3D World, she's barely taller than Luigi)

So much potential.
It...it isn't an excuse? It's clear that that's how Sakurai operates, he goes for characters that have recent appearances to bolster their significance in the public eye.

It isn't a matter of 3D models. That's totally irrelevant. You can't "use" a 3D model for a character and just make it work, he'd have made unique models if he decided to use them. Duck Hunt didn't have a 3D model and he still made it work.

I don't think any of the DKC stages have designs befitting a boss character. It'd be weird to see Mugly or Stu in the fundamentally chaotic and rather small Jungle Hijinxs.

Greninja is a poor example. Game Freak directly sent him the design sketches and he decided Greninja was the best fit. That we know of, Retro didn't contact Sakurai and he didn't contact them.

Incidentally, what do Assist Trophies have to do with anything? Why does it matter that Cranky and Rambi were in Returns? Yeah, it'd be nice if there were DKC Assist Trophies, but I don't think it's a matter of Sakurai deciding to be spiteful towards DKC fans. Maybe he just didn't think the ideas he had for them were very good?

What it is, is a matter of "right place, right time". Sakurai decided there were other characters who were deemed more appropriate for the roster, considering they had recent appearances and sizable fan support, so they were chosen. It doesn't have anything to do with DKC being cast out like the roster's red-headed stepchild because Sakurai's a jerk who hates monkeys. It doesn't help that there's a sizable communications gap between the Japanese and American developers. Hopefully that will be rectified in due time. I have high hopes that Tatsumi Kimishima will help to ease the way.

I don't think you get how the roster works.
 
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GreenKirby

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It...it isn't an excuse? It's clear that that's how Sakurai operates, he goes for characters that have recent appearances to bolster their significance in the public eye.
Duck Hunt

Ganondorf hasn't been in a Zelda game until recently

Zelda is still in her Twilight Princess incarnation

I don't think any of the DKC stages have designs befitting a boss character. It'd be weird to see Mugly or Stu in the fundamentally chaotic and rather small Jungle Hijinxs.
Yellow Devil.

Incidentally, what do Assist Trophies have to do with anything? Why does it matter that Cranky and Rambi were in Returns? Yeah, it'd be nice if there were DKC Assist Trophies, but I don't think it's a matter of Sakurai deciding to be spiteful towards DKC fans. Maybe he just didn't think the ideas he had for them were very good?
You just said that characters that made recent appearances were given priority. Cranky and Rambi were in Returns. The most recent DK game at the time. And Sakurai couldn't be bothered to make them Assist Trophies.

What it is, is a matter of "right place, right time". Sakurai decided there were other characters who were deemed more appropriate for the roster, considering they had recent appearances and sizable fan support, so they were chosen. It doesn't have anything to do with DKC being cast out like the roster's red-headed stepchild because Sakurai's a jerk who hates monkeys. It doesn't help that there's a sizable communications gap between the Japanese and American developers. Hopefully that will be rectified in due time. I have high hopes that Tatsumi Kimishima will help to ease the way.

I don't think you get how the roster works.
No one asked for Dark Pit, Wii Fit Trainer, or Ryu

Few people asked for Robin and Lucina over Chrom

And considering that both DKC and Metroid, both franchises that were popular primarily in the West, were shafted, it DOES give off the impression that Sakurai ignored fan request from across the ocean.

Also, there seems to be a notion around here that people have to put up with every decision Sakurai makes. You owe the man nothing. He's not our father. He's not our friend. And he's definitely not some wise, religious figure.
 
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BKupa666

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A silver lining to consider: thank heavens that the crummy criterion of "relevance" only truly took off with Smash 4. If it had been in place for Brawl, Jungle Beat would have cost us Diddy, and thus made getting him into Returns a much tougher proposition. If Diddy had joined K. Rool as an "irrelevant" choice, much of DK fans' time would be split between talking up K. Rool and defending him from allegations of being "an unimportant ugly Rare character who should stay dead" and doing the same with Diddy. And Dixie wouldn't have even been in the picture. Now, we have just K. Rool with Dixie on the side to prop up.
 

Diddy Kong

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A silver lining to consider: thank heavens that the crummy criterion of "relevance" only truly took off with Smash 4. If it had been in place for Brawl, Jungle Beat would have cost us Diddy, and thus made getting him into Returns a much tougher proposition. If Diddy had joined K. Rool as an "irrelevant" choice, much of DK fans' time would be split between talking up K. Rool and defending him from allegations of being "an unimportant ugly Rare character who should stay dead" and doing the same with Diddy. And Dixie wouldn't have even been in the picture. Now, we have just K. Rool with Dixie on the side to prop up.
Considering Diddy's role has watered down tremendously and steadily since Rare left am really agreeing with you here! Right now, Diddy's lack of significance is bothering me as much as the lack of Kremlings or other typical Rare elements from the mainline DKC(R) games.
 
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Cyberguy64

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I might have gone a little bit overboard in my sick of Fire Emblem aesthetics rants. For that I apologize. I don't apologize for being sick of them, but I do apologize for possibly being a little too vitriolic about it.

My biggest issue is that they all feel samey. And in a game that's all about diversity like Smash, that's a big no-no for me. I wouldn't have half the issue I do if at least one Fire Emblem newcomer didn't have a sword. Robin is close, but the fact that they still gave them a sword and then threw in Lucina and Roy just sours the whole deal for me. Fire Emblem is full of unique characters and weapons that are unexplored in Smash, but they just keep giving us more variations on Sword-wielder McPrettyface.

Then you throw in the mess that is Kid Icarus and it's one game, piles of representation issues and the pretty face character really starts to grind. It took me ages to distance Shulk from all this nonsense and see that he's actually a pretty unique character under the facade of "Pretty Boy with a Buster Sword Ripoff."

I'm not inherently against anime styled characters in Smash They have their place, and can be cool if implemented properly. But this Smash feels lopsided towards them in a way that not only favors them unfairly, but also presents them in a really crappy way too. Heck, like Bkupa said, I probably wouldn't have cared so much about it if we'd at least gotten Ridley or K. Rool too to balance it out.
 

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A silver lining to consider: thank heavens that the crummy criterion of "relevance" only truly took off with Smash 4. If it had been in place for Brawl, Jungle Beat would have cost us Diddy, and thus made getting him into Returns a much tougher proposition. If Diddy had joined K. Rool as an "irrelevant" choice, much of DK fans' time would be split between talking up K. Rool and defending him from allegations of being "an unimportant ugly Rare character who should stay dead" and doing the same with Diddy. And Dixie wouldn't have even been in the picture. Now, we have just K. Rool with Dixie on the side to prop up.
There's another problem with relevance reason. It's completely contradictory. Ridley was in Other M. A lot of good that helped him. And if we go by relevance, most of the veterans would be gone and several of the newcomers wouldn't be returning in Smash 5.

@ GreenKirby GreenKirby Sup my man? Been a long time! Couldn't agree more with you, keep posting!
Thanks
 
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GreenKirby

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Robin would be one of the unlucky ones who would be gone in Smash 5 if we go by the relevance excuse.

My point exactly
 

Wintropy

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Duck Hunt

Ganondorf hasn't been in a Zelda game until recently

Zelda is still in her Twilight Princess incarnation
Duck Hunt is chosen for his historical significance. He was chosen because he's a time capsule.

Ganondorf is a veteran.

Zelda's Twilight Princess incarnation is more iconic and Sakurai may well consider it better suited for battle.

Yellow Devil.
Wily Castle doesn't have collapsing platforms and varied strata of battle.

You just said that characters that made recent appearances were given priority. Cranky and Rambi were in Returns. The most recent DK game at the time. And Sakurai couldn't be bothered to make them Assist Trophies.
For playable characters. Assist Trophies may as well just be, to paraphrase @ BKupa666 BKupa666 , seeing what names stick to a dartboard.

No one asked for Dark Pit, Wii Fit Trainer, or Ryu
Dark Pit is an eleventh-hour clone who required no extra effort to make it to the roster.

Wii Fit Trainer is an anomaly, cited by Sakurai to be a "surprise" character.

Ryu is an icon of video gaming, I'm quite frankly surprised he only appeared now.

Few people asked for Robin and Lucina over Chrom
Quite a few people did; Chrom's support was genuine, but it did gain traction due to Awakening's overnight success and the Gematsu leak.

And considering that both DKC and Metroid, both franchises that were popular primarily in the West, were shafted, it DOES give off the impression that Sakurai ignored fan request from across the ocean.
Except Metroid got a ton of new content?

A new stage with the most detailed boss character in the game, a new Assist Trophy, scores of diverse musical tracks, Zero Suit Samus fleshed out to be her own character...

Ridley was "shafted" for entirely different reasons. Even so, Sakurai acknowledged his demand and explained that he didn't think it feasible, it wasn't due to malice.

Also, there seems to be a notion around here that people have to put up with every decision Sakurai makes. You owe the man nothing. He's not our father. He's not our friend. And he's definitely not some wise, religious figure.
I never said that we have to. I don't know why you infer that I did.

I can equally say there's a notion around here that people get incredibly intense whenever Sakurai's judgement is considered. C'mon, man, he didn't go out of his way to slap you in the face with his decisions.

EDIT: Incidentally, there is no "relevance excuse". I don't think Sakurai goes out of his way to choose characters that have new, recent games because they have new, recent games, but because they happen to be on his radar at the time.

K. Rool has always been popular, but he evidently hasn't been vocally popular enough to catch Sakurai's interest beyond a brief mention in the Brawl journal. That's why the ballot is so good for us, it's a chance to get our voices heard in a way that he can't ignore.
 
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Tortilla Noggin

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She earned her place, to be sure. On a number of levels, even. We just didn't ask for her.
To be honest, I always expected the Balance Board, rather than the trainers, because of how it's personified in Wii Fit. :laugh: But that's neither here nor there.
 

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Well I'll be damned, we might seriously be getting a Nintendo direct soon!
Not only that, but they're timing this announcement for the new Nintendo president carefully. He's officially taking the lead RIGHT BEFORE TGS 2015. That's awfully convenient timing.
 

Tortilla Noggin

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Not only that, but they're timing this announcement for the new Nintendo president carefully. He's officially taking the lead RIGHT BEFORE TGS 2015. That's awfully convenient timing.
He's also taking the lead right before the company's biggest part of the year for sales, which could be the bigger, or only, reason for that timing. :p
 

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I personally think :4darkpit: probably didn't take even a full day, 24 hours to complete. Am no programmer, but to me, he seems like a project one could finish in his lunchbreak...
 
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