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Just Smash II - Jan 7, 2007 - Fresno, CA

MrWillof469

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 9, 2006
Messages
27
Location
Selma, CA
Just Smash II
(formerly Smash 'N' Arrows II, now without the Arrows)

Sunday, January 7, 2007
Super Smash Bros. Melee - singles & teams of 2
Oh Wow! Nickel Arcade
Fresno, CA
Start time: 1:00 PM

Teams start at 1, Singles around 3, depending on entry proportions, and run until approximately 7pm.

Entry fees
Arcade admission: $1.95
Singles: $15
Teams: $10
(per player)

Entry limit of 6 players per TV in each tournament.

Late entry will only be permitted until the end of round one
(of each tournament). If you are not present when your match is called, you will be placed at the end of that round. If you're not present on the second call, you will forfeit all points for that round. A last call is made at the end of each round for late/absent players. After last call, that round is closed.

Each tournament will use a modified Swiss format. Everyone will play the same number of rounds and there is no elimination. Using the "RAND" function in MS Excel, players will be randomly paired against each other in the first round, and will then be paired primarily according to their point ranking in each successive round.

The Swiss format is modified for these tournaments in a couple ways:

Points: In most Swiss tournaments, each round is equivalent in length and value. For example, in chess, a "round" would be one game, and that game would be worth one point. Our format is modified with staggered values for each successive round:
Round 1: 1 game worth 1 point
Round 2: 2 games worth 2 points (1 per game)
Round 3: 3 games worth 3 points (1 per game)
And so forth.
The result of this staggered format not only pits you against your most evenly matched opponent in the final round, but makes you play the most games against him or her.

Pairings: After each round in a typical Swiss tournament, we pair players against their next opponents based on everyone's record so far (players with 2 points play other players with 2 points, etc.). Usually the greatest priority is making sure no two players meet more than once, but with the staggered point system, sometimes rematches are necessary. More pairing rules are needed, in priority order:
1. Players are first sorted by points, most to least.
2. Players are then sorted by their order from the first round.
3. After sorting according to rules 1 & 2, players are paired off down the list, 1v2, 3v4, and so on. Each pairing is checked to see if the players have faced each other already. In the event any rematches are found, a repairing may be made according to the following criteria:
4. Each player is compared to the other players with the same number of points to see if different matchups can be made that avoid rematches. Players can only be moved around within their own point ranking.
5. If a rematch cannot be avoided, repairings are made so that whichever players met in the earliest round prior take the rematch.

Byes: In a Swiss format, a bye is given to a player in each round if the total number of players is odd (17, 19, 21, etc). The bye will be given to the player with the lowest score who has not already received a bye at the beginning of each round. If more than one player has the lowest score (like in the first round, where everyone starts at 0), then it is given randomly. A bye is worth the full points possible in the round it's given.

Each tournament will be initially scheduled for five rounds, a total of 15 games per player. Based on attendance, tournaments may be shortened. Adjustments will be considered separately for each tournament as the day progresses. Teams will run first, and based on how fast it runs and how many people enter teams and/or singles, the time needed can be estimated and adjustments will be announced if necessary.

These tournaments use MLG rules, with modifications to fit the staggered Swiss format. The source rules may be found here. Only the rules listed on this page will be relevant to this event. All changes contrary to the MLG rules are underlined. Credit to BTZO for finding the most current rules for me.

MLG rules said:
In the case of a GameCube/TV malfunction, the game will be restarted from the beginning, no matter what time it crashed.

YOU are responsible for bringing your own controller. In addition, YOU alone are responsible for your own property, with regard to theft or vandalism. Controller mods of ANY kind (short-hop mod, L-trigger mod, etc), except for cosmetic changes (paint job, different colored plastic), are banned. Turbo or programmed buttons of any kind are banned.

Lives will be set at 4 stock with an 8 minute time limit. Ties will be broken by stock left and then by percentage of health. If both the stock and percentage are tied at the end of the time limit, the game is a draw and the point is split. Items will be turned off.

Stage & Character Selection
1. Rock, Paper, Scissors is played to settle controller port/team color disputes. It is played sudden death (one win), and in the case of teams, one player from each side will represent.
2. The stage for Game 1 will be selected at random unless both players/teams can agree on a stage. After the stage has been randomly selected each player/team may call for a reset. Each player/team can only call for a reset once during a series. If a reset is called, another stage must be randomly selected. The stage that was first selected can't be randomly selected again, but is still available for a counter pick.
3. Singles random select stages: Final Destination, Battlefield, Yoshi's Story, Fountain of Dreams, Dreamland 64 & Pokemon Stadium
4. Doubles random select stages: Final Destination, Battlefield, Yoshi's Story, Rainbow Cruise, Dreamland 64 & Pokemon Stadium, DK64
5. Stages not listed on the random select list that are not banned are open for counter picks by the losing player.
6. Stages banned for Singles Only: Great Bay and Mushroom Kingdom 2
7. Stages banned for Doubles Only: Fountain of Dreams and Mute City
8. Stages banned for Singles & Doubles: Yoshi's Island (Pipes), Fourside, Hyrule Temple, Flatzone, Brinstar Depths, Icicle Mountain, Big Blue, Mushroom Kingdom 1, Venom, Yoshi's Island 64, Peach's Castle, and Kongo Jungle, Onett.
9. No stage may be used twice in any given match.
10. After characters have been selected for the first game, each player/team may choose to knock out one stage. Stages that are knocked out won't be used during the series. Random select stages can't be knocked out. The lower seeded player/team must make their knockout selection first. Once the first game has started, stages can't be knocked out.
11. After each game of a series, the player who lost the previous game may choose the stage for the next game or elect for it to be chosen randomly. After the stage has been selected, the winner of the previous game may change characters. After the winner has chosen their character, the loser of the previous game may change characters.
12. For the first game of a series, a player may call for a double-blind pick. This means that all participating players must tell a judge the character they will use for that game. Each player is required to use that character in the game.

Other Rules & Special Issues
1. Any unnecessary pausing of the game will result in a forfeit of that single game.
2. Glitches used to stop your opponent from controlling their character or indefinitely freezing them (Mewtwo's Soul Stunner, the Ice Climber freeze glitch), or any glitch or trick that freezes the game or makes it unable to be finished are banned and will result in the immediate forfeit of the entire match.
3. Tactics such as Peach's Wallbombing and Jiggly's Rising Pound are allowed as methods of recovery or to maneuver around the stage. Using them (or any similar tactics) to excessively stall a match, such as dropping below levels intentionally and stalling underneath, is banned. If by using one of these tactics, you have put your character in a place to lose a stock by ending the tactic, a judge may force you to stop and lose a life and continue the match short a stock.
4. For Doubles matches, Team Attack is ON.
5. For Doubles matches, life stealing is allowed.
Payout

Rather than have set prizes for first, second and third, the cash payout is determined by plugging each player's points into an exponential formula to calculate his or shares of the pot:

2 ^ (points) = shares

If a tournament lasts less than 5 rounds, 2 is increased by one for every round cut. This is done to keep the possible shares large when the possible points drop.

The simple version: You start with one share. Each point you earn multiplies your shares by 2 (or 3 or 4).

With the points are converted to shares, everyone's shares are totaled up, and then the pot is divided according to each player's portion of the total. If you leave early before payout, you cannot receive money and your shares are disregarded. All payouts are rounded to the nearest dollar, so you need to earn at least $.50 with your shares to receive money. (If there is any money leftover after rounding, it is awarded to 1st place.)

Money amounts will be extremely varied. If the field stays mostly even, then the money is spread somewhat evenly. However, if one or two players dominate and earn all the points, their shares will make up the overwhelming bulk of the total and they'll take almost all the money.
 

ShadowBTZO

Smash Lord
Joined
May 31, 2005
Messages
1,123
Location
Salinas, CA
I heard there were seeds "drawn out of a hat" (meaning just completely random), I don't think that makes any sense but whatever is fine, it's your guys' tournament. I might be going to this with MC Mike ;)
 

StarrMan

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 6, 2006
Messages
20
Location
Fresno CA
I'm not really sure that I agree with the Swiss seeding...
And I really don't think Rainbow Cruise should be on the Singles Random list.
 

MrWillof469

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 9, 2006
Messages
27
Location
Selma, CA
Yes, it's random seeding, but not that ill-conceived "drawn out of a hat" system we used last time. This time we'll use the "RAND" function in MS Excel to sort players randomly.

Each round in this Swiss format is staggered in value and length, with the first being the shortest and worth the fewest points, so the "injustices" associated with random seeding should get smoothed out a bit as it progresses.

Rainbow Cruise stays on the Singles Random list.

Rules will be up within an hour or so.
 

ShadowBTZO

Smash Lord
Joined
May 31, 2005
Messages
1,123
Location
Salinas, CA
Well this tournament is going to be run on MLG rules and Rainbow Cruise is on the random list for MLG so it has to be on there unless whoever is runing this decides otherwise.
Actually Rainbow Cruise is not on the random list for MLG, and from what I have seen by the format and the way stages are banned, it is a modified version of MLG's rules (with a swiss format, different than MLG's of course xP)

Also, just curious, why are you guys distributing the prize money that way? I don't have a problem with it really, considering I've never seen it done, but I'd just like to know.
 

Zivilyn Bane

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 18, 2004
Messages
3,119
Location
Springfield, MO
SWISSSSS!!! This is too awesome, swiss system is by far a much better system than brackets for determining who the better players are.

I'll HOPEFULLY be at this one, but it seems like I always somehow miss the local tournies that are non-LevelOne.

BTZO! You gotta come to this, it's been awhile since we've played. I hear you're way better than last time, which is really awesome. I got a little better too, but haven't been able to play anybody but the locals, since oc2. Hope you come.
 

ShadowBTZO

Smash Lord
Joined
May 31, 2005
Messages
1,123
Location
Salinas, CA
BTZO! You gotta come to this, it's been awhile since we've played. I hear you're way better than last time, which is really awesome. I got a little better too, but haven't been able to play anybody but the locals, since oc2. Hope you come.
Lol yeah iono...heard about me??? ZOMG haha, iono I've gotten a little better I guess, but yeah you should definitely go, always fun smashin with you, especially at Anaheim xP...whoa long time ago :dizzy:
 

MrWillof469

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 9, 2006
Messages
27
Location
Selma, CA
The "official" MLG rules for the 2006 season were taken down off mlgpro.com, and I've been trying to find them elsewhere with little success. The last tournament used a ruleset The Game II provided to me, which was supposed to be MLG rules, but included Rainbow Cruise on the random list, and also omitted stages from the banned list. The rules currently posted are the '05 rules, which are buried in the FAQ section of mlgpro. If someone could PM me the current rules, that'd help a lot, cause I want it to be "official" (minus the Swiss format of course).

The payout is setup for two reasons. One is just to do things differently, but the main reason is to complement the point system used. The cumulative point system doesn't just determine who is better, but how much better than everyone else. If you show up and utterly dominate, you earn a massive number of shares of the pot and walk away with most of it. But if the competition is fierce and nobody pulls away from the rest of the pack, then the money is spread around to reflect everyone's performance. You have to really earn the points to win the money, especially since in the fifth, final round you have to play five games against your most evenly matched opponent, and since every game is worth a point apiece, they all matter.

The final round basically turns into a money grab, especially between the top 2 point leaders. It should be very interesting to watch.

EDIT: Pre-reg added. Entry fees adjusted.
 

ShadowBTZO

Smash Lord
Joined
May 31, 2005
Messages
1,123
Location
Salinas, CA
The "official" MLG rules for the 2006 season were taken down off mlgpro.com, and I've been trying to find them elsewhere with little success. The last tournament used a ruleset The Game II provided to me, which was supposed to be MLG rules, but included Rainbow Cruise on the random list, and also omitted stages from the banned list. The rules currently posted are the '05 rules, which are buried in the FAQ section of mlgpro. If someone could PM me the current rules, that'd help a lot, cause I want it to be "official" (minus the Swiss format of course).

The payout is setup for two reasons. One is just to do things differently, but the main reason is to complement the point system used. The cumulative point system doesn't just determine who is better, but how much better than everyone else. If you show up and utterly dominate, you earn a massive number of shares of the pot and walk away with most of it. But if the competition is fierce and nobody pulls away from the rest of the pack, then the money is spread around to reflect everyone's performance. You have to really earn the points to win the money, especially since in the fifth, final round you have to play five games against your most evenly matched opponent, and since every game is worth a point apiece, they all matter.

The final round basically turns into a money grab, especially between the top 2 point leaders. It should be very interesting to watch.

EDIT: Pre-reg added. Entry fees adjusted.
Hmm oh ok, I like the idea of it so far, sounds good. As for the MLG rules, yeah, those are as of 2005, I'm pretty sure I can get the updated ones for you though (I have them memorized but I'll get em off the website XD).

EDIT: I have the rules now, I'll pm them to you
 

HyugaRicdeau

Baller/Shot-caller
Joined
Jun 4, 2003
Messages
3,883
Location
Portland, OR
Slippi.gg
DRZ#283
I may come to this.

MrWill:

Considering your example, having A and B play is not the only solution: A could play C and B could play D. Why is AvB / CvD preferred over AvC / BvD?
 

MrWillof469

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 9, 2006
Messages
27
Location
Selma, CA
MrWill:

Considering your example, having A and B play is not the only solution: A could play C and B could play D. Why is AvB / CvD preferred over AvC / BvD?
MrWillof469 said:
Consider this sample ranking with the staggered point system:
A - 4 pts
B - 4 pts
C - 3 pts
D - 2 pts
Assume A & B have already played each other, as well as A & C. B can drop down to face C, but that would force A to play D, who is two ranks below A. This pairing will not be allowed. In our example, A has to play B again. No two players will be paired against each other if they are separated by more than one rank.
I know it goes against the traditional Swiss format which avoids pitting players against each other twice in the same tournament, but priority is given to point ranking. D is two ranks below A & B. Neither A nor B can drop down to face D. The reason for this is that it defeats the purpose of the staggered point system, which is to pit players against their most evenly matched opponents, in spite of whether they've played each other already. A player with 4 points playing someone with 2 points is an unbalanced matchup if there's a player with 3 points present.

An expanded example:
A - 4 pts
B - 4 pts
C - 4 pts
D - 3 pts
E - 2 pts
F - 2 pts
Here, we have to create two matchups with players A-D. A has already faced B, and B has already faced C, so in this case, AvC and BvD is the only matchups that can be made with those four, and it works here, because D is only one rank below A-C. But let's also assume for the argument that E has faced both D and F. We can't move E anywhere else because A-C are two ranks ahead, and while D is only one rank ahead, D is already paired against B. E plays F again.

To be clear, "one rank below" does NOT mean "one point below." If A-C in the above example all had 5 points, D's score of 3 points would be one rank below A-C, because there would be no players with 4 points.

If it still doesn't make sense, say so and I'll go into IMMENSE detail. :) Meanwhile I'll refine the way it's worded in the main post.
 

MrWillof469

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 9, 2006
Messages
27
Location
Selma, CA
BUMP!

But seriously, some new info:

Those of you Smashers who came to Smash 'N' Arrows I will be pleased to know that not only is there no ITG tournament this time, but the ITG machine is moved away from the party area where Smash is held. This means 100% focus on a quality Smash tournament with a more tolerable ambient noise level.

Speaking of quality, in order to give you fine folks your money's worth and play as many Swiss rounds as possible, we need TV's! Last time we only had two, which we managed with then, but now we have both singles and doubles and need four TV's. So if you have a TV or GameCube and are thinking about bringing it, don't assume everyone else will bring enough; BRING IT! Or if a few of you guys PM me and arrange who will FOR SURE bring TV's and Cubes, that'd work too.

Merry Christmas, btw.
 

Zivilyn Bane

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 18, 2004
Messages
3,119
Location
Springfield, MO
I will more than likely be bringing a TV to this event, however I can't say 100% as of right now, so I'll be posting a few days beforehand to let you know for sure. Can't wait for this tournament, and I hope I get to go...
 

HyugaRicdeau

Baller/Shot-caller
Joined
Jun 4, 2003
Messages
3,883
Location
Portland, OR
Slippi.gg
DRZ#283
Pretty sure (75%) that I'll be coming to this, as I can't go to the AZ tourney due to a grad student meeting that I have to attend.
 

Mr. Ganondorf

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 26, 2004
Messages
297
Location
Hanford, CA
Way to forget to mention this tournament, Mika. Hoping to pwn all these noobs and not have to share money with me, eh? :p
Actually, this is shaping up to be a really awesome tourney with some tough competition, so I'm looking forward to it. Fresno is close so I should be able to drive up no prob, and if I do, I'll bring a TV, but I ain't bringing my Wii. I will bring a copy of smash tho, just cuz it's the awesome version with flame cancelling lawl
Cya on the 7th guys. BTW I'll need a partner for doubles, and I play Ganon in case that wasn't obvious XD

PS *Is utterly freaking stoked that DSF might go to this tourney*
DSF I might MM your Marth if you go. 2 dollars max tho, I'm gonna be poor after all this entry fee.
 

MrWillof469

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 9, 2006
Messages
27
Location
Selma, CA
While putting an ad at the top of Smashboards helps increase attendance, that increase forces me to lay out further guidelines.

The arcade is open from 10am-10pm, and we have the party area for the entire day. You guys are welcome to come early or stay late to play, but the tournament will hold priority over friendlies and money matches from 1-7.

Space is limited at Nickel, which is the tradeoff we make to hold the tournament in a relatively inexpensive venue. There are two tables that would be considered "safe" to put 2 TV's on apiece. We'd have to bring in more tables for more TV's, and I would say the most we could fit comfortably would be 3 tables/6 TV's total, although one more table with 2 TV's mightsqueeze in there somewhere. Last time we had two TV's, one on each table, 20 people entered total, and it felt pretty packed in there. Hopefully by not having an ITG tournament with it this time we'll all be able to breathe.

There will be a limit of 6 people per TV. This is not a hard limit, per se. Sign-ups for singles and doubles are taken at the same time, and the ratios determine how long each tournament goes. If the exact same number of people signed up for both (say, 16 for singles and 8 teams of 2 for doubles), then doubles would last 2 hours and singles would last 4. If one tournament gets more sign-ups than the other, then time will be taken away from the smaller tournament and given to the larger one. If the ratio is lopsided enough, more people will be allowed into the larger tournament than the 6-per-TV limit.

If anyone has extension cords (thick ones with three prongs), please bring those. Same goes for any folding tables (sturdy enough to hold 2 TV's).

And if you're planning to bring a TV, PM me before Sunday to confirm whether it's needed, because you won't want to leave it in your car if we don't use it. Trust me.
 

LUVTOY77-ROGUE WIREFRAME

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 26, 2006
Messages
2,372
Dang, why are all the tourneys out of state, or why am I always out of state when they are in? Anyways, sounds great man, just reading all this stuff. Good luck to you all.
 

Zivilyn Bane

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 18, 2004
Messages
3,119
Location
Springfield, MO
Mr. Brandandorf, first of all I told you about this tournament like 10 times. Remember I told you that DSF is coming?? Also, I wouldn't try to keep this a secret just to win when obviously if DSF is going then I won't be winning.

Can't wait for this tourney.
 

Mexi

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 14, 2006
Messages
187
dont think any1 knows me but ill go just to get into it more and enjoy being 4 stocked
 

Mr. Ganondorf

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 26, 2004
Messages
297
Location
Hanford, CA
Relax Bane, I was just playing with ya. However, who says DSF is gonna win? I fully intend on rewriting the tier lists guys, Ganon is a hard counter to Sheik, you all just don't know it yet XD
But omg, DSf, Sheridangerous, BTZO, Bane, such awesome people are coming to this I can't wait. Mr. Will, I'm definitely bringing a TV if I go, just lemme know if you end up not needing it. Meh, I guess it doesn't matter, even if I bring it I can just leave it at Tdawg's place. Sweet, I can't wait for this.
 

MrWillof469

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 9, 2006
Messages
27
Location
Selma, CA
I can account for 4 TV's right now. It may go without saying, but obviously Cubes and Smash need to be brought as well. You can leave your Cubes in your cars if we don't need them, since they're a lot less noticable than TV's.

With 4 TV's, there would be a limit of 24 players per tournament. We need 1-2 more TV's! If we don't use a TV that's brought, you can keep it in the arcade rather than in your car (under one of the tables would work best, since it's kinda hard to take that TV right in front of the people playing). With 6 TV's we could allow up to 36 players to enter, which would result in pots of $360 for doubles and $540 for singles. And remember, with the staggered points, which can vary A LOT, everyone could walk out with their entry fee, or one or two people could win it all!

I'm using this tournament as an excuse to finally buy a coffee table, which will be used as the third table. No one screw it up too badly, please. :)

Oh, and I would recommend against anyone bringing their Wii to this if you're thinking about it. If you do bring it, remember, you're responsible for making sure it doesn't get swiped.
 

MrWillof469

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 9, 2006
Messages
27
Location
Selma, CA
I think Nickel would allow taping. I recall the freestyle sections of Candy Avalanche and Smash 'N' Arrows I being taped without a problem. Permission from those taped to have their likeness appear on camera may be an issue, but that's the sort of legality you'd be responsible for if you brought the camera.

Speaking of taping, if anyone wants to bring a VCR to tape any matches, that is welcome too, as long as too much time isn't wasted on taping.
 

The Game II

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 5, 2004
Messages
2,018
Location
Northern California
Will, I think the extent of my video taping will be the final rounds of singles and teams. As far as legality, that's why I needed to know if the arcade is coo with it. If they are, then nobody can say anything (and a lot of people bring this up to me at work, and I tell them this).

I'll try to see if my vcr is still around.

--GCII
 

DieSuperFly

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Messages
1,310
Location
CA, Compton
I'll be attenting this with a few ppl =) here is my number 310 720 0932 sooo plzzzzz can someone that is going to this give me a call if you see this!! ty =) cuz i don't wanna get lostsiess sniff....:)::ohwell:
 

MrWillof469

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 9, 2006
Messages
27
Location
Selma, CA
Aside from the outcome in the top 2 final match of singles, this tournament went amazingly well. The staggered point format seemed to work well in the team section, but the singles section presented a MAJOR flaw, and I have no plans to use this staggered system again. Mr. P Body was clearly the second best player, and to have him drop down that far in the final round was really messed up.

Next time I use Swiss rules, it will be in the traditional fashion, with evenly-weighed rounds and a playoff afterward to determine 1st/2nd/3rd payout.

Detailed results in the results forum

Thank you all for coming, and congrats to the top finishers. We'll need to find some stronger competition for DSF next time. :rolleyes:
 

The Game II

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 5, 2004
Messages
2,018
Location
Northern California
Great tournament. Fun to meet up with all the fresno peeps.

The interview with Ziv is up on the site.

As far as videos. I'm going to TRY to have them up by Thursday. I have to find my encoder and all of the software, since they're scattered around my house, and I didn't reinstall it when I put in my new hard drive.

--GCII
 
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