Just 'nother Mafia game | Game over, town wins

[~ Gheb ~]

Orboknown receives a prod


Orboknown [2] - Jdietz, HBC | J

Not voting: Orboknown, TMFD, Maven
Takes 3/5 to lynch

 

[The Man From Delamar]

Maven89 gonna be honest fella, ya cheesed my temper real good. As far as I'm concerned this obsession with me bein "null" and "dishonest" and "not townie" based on such crimes as not playing forum mafia like epic mafia, gettin my feet wet and tryin to scumhunt rather than barf up a scumread and sit on it, reading and rereading to check my six, and picking an unpopular scumread ...

I mean, where I'm from, that should really only have been the kinda argument scum would make and I been HATIN J for how she's treated my slot since I came in. But you doin the exact same, as clear town, single handedly legitimized it as a train of thought made it impossible to make use of what shoulda been a strong example of poor content.

It's also kinda forced me to mute my level of confusion or desire to collaborate because at this point I really dont know what to make of the game anymore. Y'all play this game weird and focus on weird stuff instead of startin at hard evidence and workin outward. But I was afraid to admit it cuz I knew with all the constant shackles I been gettin dished on all D2, scum and town alike would hawk in immediately.

What I'm tryin to say is... As before, help me solve this dang mess. Ive slowly started to like Dietz a tiny bit toDay but you're finally seein the truth I always did -- he DID NOT make protown moves. Intent be damned, I can see lazy town intent as a possibility now, but if he IS town some baddie got to just assume it because everybody else was. Frankly, y'all have made it extremely easy for mafia to hide on D2 in spite of my best efforts to shake things up.

I hope to see exactly what gave you the change of heart, cuz frankly, if we pick wrong toDay Ive already been mislynched D3 unless an outside viewpoint makes it excruciatingly clear why thinkin I'm scum is ****in stupid, and it is.

As for bein scalped, I recommend a Winchester lever-action. The injinz can be brutal and yer best off takin em out from a distance, you take em on with yer sic shooters and you get tomahawked.

 

[Maven89]

Not my in depth posting time yet (on phone still), but I wasn't viewing your slot fairly. I was reading you heavy scum due to Koopa, then didn't see a push I agreed with (Dietz), and I could tell you were a good player, so I wrote off all the pro-town stuff as being "probably/possibly faked" and ignored it, while only focusing on the fact that your read was Dietz and Koopa's play. In short, I wasn't actually reading your slot, but going off a flawed bullet point list of things that happened that was heavily biased against you. Anything other then you finding the last mafia (which we don't know if you did or didn't) or someone being town confirmed was going to leave me viewing your slot as null/scum at best, which is a heavily flawed way of viewing it.

however, it was an easier way to view it. Going "eh, maybe it's faked" was really a way for me to ignore everything that made the game difficult and pretend I had a solution to it.

I never played Epicmafia so I don't know that reference but i'm going to assume it's an insult, in which case yeah it's probably fair, at least for my slot. I've been lazy as **** day 2.

 

[Maven89]

One thing that might explain our play to you is that we've all played dozens of games together and so have a much firmer grasp on each other then most people do in mafia. For example, I'm aware that J hides in his meta, and Dietz has a bad habit of messing up badly as mafia. People are aware that I can play super recklessly and rage at things.

But overall problem I'm going to have with you stating we're ignoring hard evidence is I don't think most of it is hard evidence. It's anti-town, but anti-town isn't the same as pro-scum. For example, if I had roleclaimed right when Soup voted me, it's be horribly anti-town, because it gives out the PR for no reason and throws a bunch of WIFOM on everything. But it's not pro-scum, and while it's anti-town and my play helped the mafia, it'd be a big mistake to lynch me for it. I see lots of your Dietz stuff to be more inherently anti-town then inherently pro-scum. I still have trouble imagining Dietz doing that stuff as scum, mainly because I feel it'd probably backfire and from my own memory of Dietz as scum, he's normally nervous and not that confident when he rolls scum. These are why I was less inclined to read your Dietz read. These are bad reasons, I acknowledge it, but I just want to get it out there so you don't think we're all *******

 

[The Man From Delamar]

EM in a nutshell: It's a fast paced chat room style mafia

Every single D2 "results go"

Some varmint: Tracker here no result/so and so visited so and so/etc.

Then town just goes in circles giving scumpools and playin to mathematics and appeasin clears and... Yeah it just ain't high level play by any stretch.

 

[The Man From Delamar]

EM in a nutshell: It's a fast paced chat room style mafia

Every single D2 "results go"

Some varmint: Tracker here no result/so and so visited so and so/etc.

Then town just goes in circles giving scumpools and playin to mathematics and appeasin clears and... Yeah it just ain't high level play by any stretch.

 

[The Man From Delamar]

That actually gave me some clarity. If y'all are that familiar with each other I guess I get how a crapass null slot newbie replaced by a good townie that's also a fresh face would feel AW MAN SO NULL, NOPE NOTHIN ABOUT HIS ACTIONS GIVE ANY IDEA WHAT HE CARES ABOUT. I still think it's mighty dumb and shortsighted but I guess I get it

Still, it a fair or logical way to treat a newbie? Heck no, and it made it stupidly easy for the last goon to waste time (while I argued down null junk) and posture to lynch me with little criticism (all 3 of them varmints are well-positioned to do it). Understandable or not it zeroed yall in on a bad target for bad reasons and now we're in the 11th hour and I only just feel like I got some of the vindication I feel like ive frankly deserved for a while now. Can't help but wonder what we could've accomplished otherwise y'know?

Anyway no (huge) rush on the next post and no need to waste yer time on this I'll save it for after game. I wish we got to ride together sooner but better late than never, lets kill that last mongrel

 

[#HBC | J]

I'm just saying if Delly is the final scum, I'm going to probably be more salty then I would be if Ditzy was the final scum.

Please don't let there be a LyLo. Let me be right on Orbo. ;_; I'll be sobbing in a corner otherwise.

I'm going to just be stubborn and say there is no LyLo and that we are all correct and can be happy and move past this and just going to sit here for now.

The stress this game produces combined with finals is slowly breaking me into a pile of emotion haha.

 

[Orboknown]

Sorry. Long ass days leaving me drained and i legit forgot this thread for awhile.
So i flipped onto J because i can't just mark dels play as koops played bad and dels playing middle of the road null, because dels playing this wayyyy too frontline right now. And I've already stated Js stuff has me less than glowing.
I'm going to bed soon so I'll try and get more on this tomorrow

 

[#HBC | J]

Orbo, if you are town, please remember that the deadline is like 3pm EST or something like that (Idk, I'm MT). If not, stay MIA and that way we can just have the game end.

Plus that last post doesn't make much sense to me because it sounds like now you are back onto Delly, if I am reading correctly.

 

[The Man From Delamar]

Seriously? You couldn't give ONE EXAMPLE of something in my comments J that jumped out to you as "good point! J is kinda scummy!"

Not one example?


J you ain't readin' correctly. It ain't a good post, but you ain't readin' correctly neither.

 

[#HBC | J]

I'll believe it considering my eyes are pretty strained from what I am writing, but I feel obligated to post and make sure that I keep tabs on this game.

 

[The Man From Delamar]

typo'd something but I think J understood me

regardless

Seriously? You couldn't give ONE EXAMPLE of something in my comments J that jumped out to you as "good point! J is kinda scummy!"

Not one example?

sposta say

Seriously? You couldn't give ONE EXAMPLE of something in my comments about J that jumped out to you as "good point! J is kinda scummy!"

Not one example?

 

[Orboknown]

I've been working since 5 am and i feel like ****
Go ahead and lynch me fkr it, but what you got is what you got

 

[The Man From Delamar]

It's such a simple question and I asked it three friggin' days ago. If you felt I had good points about J, after a post as long as what I made, you shoulda been able to think one or two things from memory I'd think.

 

[The Man From Delamar]

I mean Christ I didn't ask ya reread the game and analyze. I just asked you what jumped out as far as my "good points".

So are you just playing 100% PoE on this one or what? You never entertained Dietzcum making it Del / J, then Del plays things frontline and hardball therefore J? Is that all there is to it? Tired or not you should be able to make at least a ****ty post about what caught your eye and what didn't.

 

[Orboknown]

Imma stop and repeat
Ive been working since 5 am every day except the weekend for the past two weeks. I feel like garbage. I blanked on checking this game for the past two days. **** kinda gets lost in the shuffle.
I'm going to bed now. 4am comes early.

 

[Orboknown]

But I dont feel like she asked much of pretty much anyone to get a read on em. A lot of the active questioning she's done has related to telling players what they do or dont or should or shouldn't think, and a lot of staging about how the game is going that may not reflect reality. For example, peckin at orbo's thoughts on you a couple pages back while talkin to me. I didn't get an investigative vibe, more of a "tear down that town read" vibe. I seen town do that plenty so I didnt dwell, but frankly... I'VE tried harder to interrogate orbo than J has been, regardless of alignments

I tried to rustle up activity (and LIVE THREAD INTERACTION, independent of my pre-replace.ent thoughts -- somethin I keep getting knocked down a peg for not havin) and j asks me to dance a little. But I get hit with stuff like phrasing, feels, "you can't take credit for this or that", and so on. The whole time I was wonderin why I was havin that conversation. I dont have a scum read offered? Yeah, and? I wanted to play around and see what people do before takin the same gad dang samey "this guy or I guess this guy" stances as everybody else, knowin damn well that all that passivity wasn't gonna find scum. I didn't see much of an effort to read me (in fact j bristled when I called out her bad play and leading town in bad directions, going into justification and "I'm not as serious as you might think" mode), and to boot she even flat out said she didn't see a value in continuing the conversation outside of gettin a read on me, somethin she now bemoans as some Impossible task. She's been talkin about and around but not TO me ever since.

After semi-forcin out my read before I wanted, I had no choice but to commit. J says dietzamar will clear up the question marks and opts to stay back until after, even when I asked her to reread and analyze and look at my thoughts on you or bring up somethin unique about orbo

We dust it up a bit. J comes back and... Well, offers up the same old same old. Still likes you, still thinks I'm some enigmatic rubiks cube, still wants orbo and for all the identical reasons as last time in way more words. I call this out.

Then J gives us a much much, much, much longer post where suddenly she has seen the light. Perhaps Dietz DOES need another looking over! Perhaps we have been clearin him on feels and gut instead of hard evidence and facts! Perhaps she should look at the game! Oh right, I asked the varmint to do that half a week ago, and maven already said literally alla that.

J also goes at lengths with this orbo analysis where she suddenly doesn't see the scum motive for the long con and admits that his content hasn't been scummy, which is a 180 from the last wall where he was "scummy orbo" and "not hunting scum while we are all making our own pushes". Where did that come from? J doesn't mention any of my own extensive questioning of orbo when condemning him as scummy in wall 1 or flopping back off of him in wall 2, and I find it baffling as its the most content orbo has given the game. Ever. WHY AM I PULLING BETTER MATERIAL OUT OF HER SCUMPICK THAN SHE IS, AND TRYING HARDER TO DO SO? Meanwhile I can't help but notice the fact that maven had flatly stated "his content hasn't been scummy" and id put it on paper more than once that id noticed things that made me lean away from orbo as a play.

Goodnight

 

[The Man From Delamar]

I hate this.

I knew that was the post that won you over, there was never any doubt in my mind that it was. I feel it's a good post with a lot of valid reasons to be hella damn suspicious of that gal. But because I knew that was the post you were talkin about (really, I think everyone did) it means you have answered nothing about my question. I wanted to know what points in particular you agreed with. Ugh. Dammit. Ugh.

 

[The Man From Delamar]

I feel yer frustration (no stranger to wakin up in the early dusk myself) but you really got no place to be actin up like that. You joined this game. Shoot, I spent like twenty of my hard earned silver dollars on a newfangled "datapass" so as to keep playin and postin while commutin'. You make it work or you stay outta the way of the game.

The effort you spent to find and quote that post is almost identical to the effort required to REMEMBER what about it won you over and say it.

 

[The Man From Delamar]

@Jdietz43 Maven89

A friendly poke. Let's have a sarsaparilla and talk this out

 

[#HBC | J]

Delly, I am going to have to ask you to be more empathetic towards things because you are pretty harsh/brash considering what time of year it is and Orbo has already let us know that he is incredibly busy and taxed due to other things.

 

[#HBC | J]

#RefreshPageBeforePosting

Point still stands though.

 

[The Man From Delamar]

This is what I don't get about you, J. Even when we're lookin the same direction you never seem to notice any of the same things or put any of the same puzzle pieces together.

I expressed my empathy for his frustration... I also pointed out a blatant fallacy -- he literally didn't answer the question at all, meaning he wasted his own precious time. Am I wrong it would've taken the same amount of time to quickly barf up a paraphrase of whatever points he remembered that won 'im over? Because it would. Town perspective should have a memory of what things stand out to them (thus my questions to Orbo all the way back to when I first came in), mafia perspective has to stop and think on it.

Why do you not feel that's worth pointing out? Why did you not think of it? We've both looked at Orbo toDay and I have almost never truly seen where or why you were coming from.

 

[The Man From Delamar]

or are you just all sympathetic-like because you're tryin' to mislynch and I'm tryin to read players in the game.

Don't answer that question, it's rhetorical. But it should also give you a dang clear idea of just one of many reasons your slot bugs me so damn much.

 

[#HBC | J]

There are so many thoughts I wish to express to you at this time, but I am failing to come up with the correct sequence of words. There is something about your overall playstyle that I do not like and find very perplexing.

You are very much a "My Way or No Way!" type of guy and that much is present in your posts because of how stagnant your playstyle is. It's like I can work with you, but not 100%.

Plus you are really interpreting things that your way of thought is the only way town should be thinking and to be completely honest that is really haughty if you are in fact town because you are not really considering that people think differently then yourself.

I don't know, I have not been talking much about it because it revolves around your playstyle, but the question on my brain is that is this an active choice you are making by being this way or is this just the way you play naturally? (Don't answer because it's more rhetorical)

Basically your play is decent, but I still bite my lip regarding you.

 

[#HBC | J]

Also bare with me because I am pretty drained and just expressing in a stream of consciousness at the moment so I could just be sounding pretty obtuse myself here. I am just having a hard time looking at you from any other perspective then "That stubborn guy with the really brazen opinions that holds some pretty harsh standards" especially if you are truly new to this site, you are kind of being meh to how people play here because they do not match your own philosophy of playing.

Plus, I get your frustration, trust me I've literally been the one pointing it out all day and the one calling for his head, but even I'm being understanding of the exhaustion he seems to present and you are just being very "Give me what I want now! I don't care because you could have typed X Y Z NOW!!!!!!" and it's obnoxious to put it bluntly.

If he doesn't deliver tomorrow when he said he was, you have to power to vote him and that will be that. I just don't get the insistence you are pushing onto that slot especially when it is pretty much already on his last leg. Seems overkill to say the least and a bit too pushy to come from a town-mindset because I feel as town you should be more understanding to the options of players and also just think about things in their perspectives. He did provide the quote and said what he liked about regarding the stuff you said about my slot, but that's not enough for you...?

 

[#HBC | J]

I think I finally have it worded, your standards are ludicrously high for someone new to an entire environment of playing because you must have been playing at a much HIGHER level of mafia site considering this site isn't even for mafia, but as a parlor game for people to just have fun.

I just don't understand you as a player. *shrug* Maybe with more games, but at the same time....hmph.

 

[The Man From Delamar]

If he doesn't deliver tomorrow when he said he was, you have to power to vote him and that will be that. I just don't get the insistence you are pushing onto that slot especially when it is pretty much already on his last leg.

Gee.

You ever think maybe he could've delivered TODAY, and MAYBE I'd have gotten a better read on him, giving me just barely enough time to make the right call if he's town?

I'm sorry you find it so "perplexing" and "overkill" that I don't want to treat a slot like a lost cause and "just do it already". What would Orbo delivering ANYTHING of value tomorrow give us. You think we're all gonna be here on time to dogpile a good lynch even if he makes the best case/defense in the history of mafia cases/defenses? That is clearly not realistic.

The fact that you're acting like there's no urgency is the most bewildering damn thing I think I've ever seen, and I ain't touchin on the rest because it's out of game stuff about mafia philosophy. I talked to Maven about what I did earlier because fmpov I've been pseudotunneled for no good reason all day, and even the town clear is admitting it.

Why are you so capable of being active when only null things are being discussed?

 

[Maven89]

If he doesn't deliver tomorrow when he said he was, you have to power to vote him and that will be that. I just don't get the insistence you are pushing onto that slot especially when it is pretty much already on his last leg. Seems overkill to say the least and a bit too pushy to come from a town-mindset because I feel as town you should be more understanding to the options of players and also just think about things in their perspectives. He did provide the quote and said what he liked about regarding the stuff you said about my slot, but that's not enough for you...?

 

[The Man From Delamar]

Like it's been, what, almost three days since the post where I asked you to explicitly point out what you're gettin' at when you say you "still" think something's missing from Delscum. Frankly you've spent just as much time dodging requests for things of substance -- where's that reread with the analyses on orbo and dietz you were going to start a week ago -- as Orbo, just in a more wordy, fluffy manner. You haven't engaged my slot once between our first conversation and now this one, but you've sure as shoot reacted to it, many a time.

 

[The Man From Delamar]

God, Maven. You are a sight for the sorest of eyes.

So is that post as outrageously scummy as I think it is, or just stupid?

 

[#HBC | J]

What are you talking about with the "capable of being active when only null things are being discussed?", sorry pardner, but that's just not true at all.

I have been engaging you this entire time, hell we've had huge long ass conversations and it's just rude of you to say that I haven't engaged you since you and I have been literally the only two people here constantly talking to each other about everything and here posting as the active people. Maven/Ditzy are touch and go activity and Orbo has never really been here.

Like is your definitions are wonky af and I'm okay if you find me distasteful for saying as such.

 

[The Man From Delamar]

We've barely had anything resembling a conversation this entire time until I poke you and even then it's more of an aside. You have not worked with me. You have worked AROUND me.

 

[#HBC | J]

I'm just exhausted of talking to you and walling with you especially during finals week. That's honestly it and I'm just so apathetic towards your slot as a whole. I can see the town perspective, but I can also see the scum perspective. That's what make you null and I also looked at Ditzy, but there was nothing that I was like "Boom, bam, insta-scum." or anything to that notion. I still side with Ditzy on probably leaning town on him. The thing is, I'm at that point where I am just committing to my gut instincts and going with lynching Orbo instead of dealing with the "what if's" regarding Delly/Ditzy *which I have stated quite clearly in this conversation* and sticking to my guns. Yet, you keep dragging me around like a metaphorical dog with his favorite chew toy.

 

[The Man From Delamar]

Do you not remember that you're three days late to answer a buncha direct questions, or what?

Maven89 am I too close to this or what? She seems to think I'm just unfair.

 

[The Man From Delamar]

Y'know what, you're exhausted? Then don't bother replyin'. If you are town your replies are doin' absolutely nothin' to help me come to that conclusion. Take a break. I'll take a break. We'll see what Maven has to say.

 

[#HBC | J]

That's entirely fair and I will take that offer.

To answer the quick thing, yeah I feel like you are being unfair because of your way of thinking which is out of game which frustrates me. However, I'll re-look at those questions again but the last time I did I didn't see anything that was a direct question that I needed to post in thread, but contemplate intrinsically

 

[The Man From Delamar]

J if you truly are town, just read my 629 over and over and over again until you realize I'm town and why my perspective makes the observations you make and the way you stage the game look scummy, or until Maven posts, whatever comes first.

 

[#HBC | J]

I've never denied that I look scummy haha. We all do in my eyes (look at least a little scummy. Maven has some questionable posts but he is clear sooo lol) to be honest and I do see where my posts can come across as scummy. I am able to admit that at the very least. I can't realize you are town because I never have 100% town reads unless they are clear. I do think you are more towny than Orbo, hence why I am voting him toDay.

Here is where the insistence and beating a dead horse thing is. I am not voting you, I feel the game is going to end with an Orbo lynch, so through my eyes you have to be town. So if you want it down on paper and like hard stance, I feel you and Ditzy are both town and your argument looked very TvT when going over it especially when compared to my feelings about Orbo being a parrot of who has the biggest swing this day-phase and his over all coasting game-play which strikes more as avoidance rather than actually just being MIA in some situations.

I'm tired of the headache of possibilities and just submitting to the fact that Orbo is the final scum and if it comes down to you/Me/Ditzy I will re-evaluate and cross that bridge when we get there. Until then, I adamantly refuse to dive back into that headache that makes me wanna run towards the nearest bottle of wine.