Jolteon = amazing lead

[The Real Gamer]

Jolteon @ Leftovers
Volt Absorb / Timid
252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Def

Substitute
Baton Pass
Thunderbolt
Hidden Power (Ice)

Through a mix of curiosity and testing, I've found that Jolteon is one of the best Pokemon I've ever used as a lead. The magical set used is the infamous Subpasser Jolteon. Just look above if you don't know the standard set. Jolteon (other than the uncommon Ninjask and Aero) is going to be the fastest lead out there, so it can choose to act as an anti-lead, or a Subpasser to give yourself the early momentum. A lot of opponents are stupid and try to get SR up first, which gives you the perfect opportunity to set up a sub and baton pass to the appropriate Pokemon that can resist the opposing lead's moves, so not only do you have a counter... You should have a counter safely behind a sub if played correctly! If Jolteon is forced to switch early, that's definitely okay, because you now have a Pokemon that can potentially be a crucial late game sweeper (works great on Starmie)! Here are two excellent examples of Jolteon in action:

Example 1

Rules: Ladder Match, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Species Clause, Strict Damage Clause
rolrctermaniac sent out Jirachi (lvl 100 Jirachi).
sb trg sent out Jolteon (lvl 100 Jolteon ?).
Jolteon used Substitute.
Jolteon lost 25% of its health.
Jolteon made a substitute!
Jirachi used Stealth Rock.
Pointed stones float in the air around the foe's team!
Jolteon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jolteon restored 6% of its health.
---
Jolteon used Baton Pass.
sb trg switched in Heatran (lvl 100 Heatran ?).
Pointed stones dug into Heatran.
Heatran lost 12% of its health.
Jirachi used Fire Punch.
Heatran's Flash Fire raised its fire power!
---
rolrctermaniac: wow

Example 2

Rules: Ladder Match, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Species Clause, Strict Damage Clause
trapped sent out Gliscor (lvl 100 Gliscor ?).
sb trg sent out Jolteon (lvl 100 Jolteon ?).
Jolteon used Substitute.
Jolteon lost 25% of its health.
Jolteon made a substitute!
Gliscor used Stealth Rock.

Pointed stones float in the air around the foe's team!
Jolteon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jolteon restored 6% of its health.
---
Jolteon used Hidden Power.
It's super effective!
Gliscor lost 100% of its health.
trapped's Gliscor fainted.
Jolteon's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jolteon restored 6% of its health.
---
trapped switched in Magnezone (lvl 100 Magnezone).
Jolteon used Baton Pass.
sb trg switched in Heatran (lvl 100 Heatran ?).
Pointed stones dug into Heatran.
Heatran lost 12% of its health.
Magnezone used Substitute.
Magnezone lost 25% of its health.
Magnezone made a substitute!
Magnezone's leftovers restored its health a little!
Magnezone restored 6% of its health.
---
Heatran used Fire Blast.
It's super effective!
The substitute took damage for Magnezone!
Magnezone's substitute faded!
Magnezone used Thunderbolt.
The substitute took damage for Heatran!
Heatran's substitute faded!
Magnezone's leftovers restored its health a little!
Magnezone restored 6% of its health.
---
trapped switched in Heatran (lvl 100 Heatran ?).
Heatran used Substitute.
Heatran lost 25% of its health.
Heatran made a substitute!
---
Heatran used Earth Power.
It's super effective!
The substitute took damage for Heatran!
Heatran's substitute faded!
Heatran used Earth Power.
It's super effective!
Heatran lost 100% of its health.
trapped's Heatran fainted.
Heatran lost 10% of its health.
---
trapped switched in Machamp (lvl 100 Machamp ?).
Heatran used Explosion.
Machamp lost 100% of its health.
trapped's Machamp fainted.
sb trg's Heatran fainted.
---
trapped switched in Jolteon (lvl 100 Jolteon ?).
sb trg switched in Jolteon (lvl 100 Jolteon ?).
Pointed stones dug into Jolteon.
Jolteon lost 12%

So there you have it. I suggest you guys try it sometime! You might be pleasantly surprised! I know I was.

 

[CT Chia]

I use this same exact Jolteon on my team now, but it's not my lead.

I've been leading with Dusknoir recently, it's working great

 

[UltiMario]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=273821

This thread exists for a reason.

 

[Bowser_Gangsta]

The only problem I can conceive with a Jolteon Lead is Swampert. He takes 22% max from HP Ice and can EQ till the end of time. But its a good Idea. I love hard hitting, momentum starting leads. Beats Metagross though, so im

 

[CT Chia]

The only problem I can conceive with a Jolteon Lead is Swampert. He takes 22% max from HP Ice and can EQ till the end of time. But its a good Idea. I love hard hitting, momentum changing leads. Beats Metagross though, so im

How do u change 0 momentum? lol it's the first turn

 

[The Real Gamer]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=273821

This thread exists for a reason.

I'm going to get both a greater amount of in-depth discussion and comments since this has its own thread. I'd prefer this had its own thread.

The only problem I can conceive with a Jolteon Lead is Swampert. He takes 22% max from HP Ice and can EQ till the end of time. But its a good Idea. I love hard hitting, momentum changing leads. Beats Metagross though, so im

Jolteon would undoubtedly still do its job against leadPert. Its a lose lose situation for your opponent. Set up the sub first of course. If Pert uses SR, you now have a free sub + Counter (in my case Celebi). If Pert uses EQ, you can switch to your counter and your opponents lead never got the rocks up!

EDIT: Chibo, what does this lead Dusknoir look like? I'm interested.

 

[xLeafybug =D]

The only problem I can conceive with a Jolteon Lead is Swampert. He takes 22% max from HP Ice and can EQ till the end of time. But its a good Idea. I love hard hitting, momentum changing leads. Beats Metagross though, so im

It's a choice between attacking the Baton Pass switch and losing SR, or setting up SR and dying. Either way, the opponent loses.

 

[Bowser_Gangsta]

How do u change 0 momentum? lol it's the first turn

Ahh poo whatever :/ Edit tiem...

 

[UltiMario]

I'm going to get both a greater amount of in-depth discussion and comments since this has its own thread. I'd prefer this had its own thread.

I'd appreciate if people stopped making excuses for not looking for a thread before posting a new one instead.

This will get no more discussion than it would in the leads thread, seeing as if you posted it in there you would have at least revived the thread which would have gotten more interesting results IMO.

 

[Riddle]

I'm going to get both a greater amount of in-depth discussion and comments since this has its own thread. I'd prefer this had its own thread.



Jolteon would undoubtedly still do its job against leadPert. Its a lose lose situation for your opponent. Set up the sub first of course. If Pert uses SR, you now have a free sub + Counter (in my case Celebi). If Pert uses EQ, you can switch to your counter and your opponents lead never got the rocks up!

EDIT: Chibo, what does this lead Dusknoir look like? I'm interested.

SR on the sub. Roar on the Baton Pass. Swampert DEFINITELY wins.

 

[xLeafybug =D]

It's a choice between attacking the Baton Pass switch and losing SR, or setting up SR and dying. Either way, the opponent loses.

TRG may have worded it wrong, but Swampert still loses. Unless he roars at the beginning, which is a horrible idea, because a lot of Jolteon carry HP Grass, so a lot of people might not consider that to be the best idea.

 

[CT Chia]

EDIT: Chibo, what does this lead Dusknoir look like? I'm interested.

Freaper (Dusknoir) (M) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Trick Room
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
- Shadow Sneak

 

[The Real Gamer]

Leafy beat me to it... I was about to say how a lot of Jolteons carry HP grass, so that might scare off Swampert, especially since Jolteon is in the lead position and the opponent might be thinking "Uh oh Jolteon in the lead position. Must be an anti-lead."

 

[A_man13]

Swampert will lose if the player thinks it will have HP Grass (as it comes of as an anti-lead. Why would anyone use HP ice on an anti lead besides for Gliscor), but otherwise pert wins.

With the said exception, though, I can't imagine what else (besides maybe Hippowdon, another common roar user. Don't know about it's lead usage since I left) could beat it at least from the common leads.

 

[xLeafybug =D]

Wouldn't HP Ice OHKO Hippowdon?

 

[A_man13]

Wouldn't HP Ice OHKO Hippowdon?

Scratch that last post. Even if it didn't, all you'd have to do is bypass subbing. Sure it puts Jolteon at risk, but it takes care of the lead.

 

[mood4food77]

pretty sure ttar leads win, they can EQ you and set up SR while your t-bolt doesn't do much damage to that monstrous special defense of his

i think other than that though, he may win but aerodactyl is really iffy only because of the speed tie (which you can't do anything about)

 

[The Real Gamer]

How could it not win against ttar leads? Sub first. If it EQ's you, switch to a ttar counter which prevents it from laying down SR. If it uses SR, you have a counter behind a sub.

 

[Wave⁂]

Aerodactyl wins since you can't kill him before he sets up Stealth Rock.

Tyranitar wins if you don't Baton Pass to a Tyranitar counter. Herpdurderp

 

[UltiMario]

Mine TTar lead wins even more seeing as Sash guarantees the SR.


I love that thing.

 

[kirbyraeg]

The problem with Jolteon is that he won't beat other anti-lead types, particularly things like trickscarf anything, other jirachi, etc. Other rare volt absorbers like lanturn and electivire can come in and beat him one-on-one and other ground types like scarf flygon can get the advantage with a faster u-turn before the baton pass. Sandstorm in general is also a major threat to multiple uses of this Jolteon, which is a similar problem to subpass in the non-lead position. Yes, the objective is sub-passing, but arguably the point of passing a substitute in the first place is to use that extra turn of safety effectively, and a lot of people know that Jolteon is used primarily as either a Specs or support pokemon. Any idiot who surrenders tempo vs. a pokemon known to run sets like this will be beaten by it the same way somebody who doesn't run a phazer will get ***** by a ninjask.

 

[Zankoku]

How could it not win against ttar leads? Sub first. If it EQ's you, switch to a ttar counter which prevents it from laying down SR. If it uses SR, you have a counter behind a sub.

If he EQ's your sub and then SR's, what then?

 

[The Real Gamer]

If he EQ's your sub and then SR's, what then?

What if what if what if... :\

What if I use sub twice???

Any idiot who surrenders tempo vs. a pokemon known to run sets like this will be beaten by it the same way somebody who doesn't run a phazer will get ***** by a ninjask.

Any time I'm up against another anti lead (that I can't beat) I'll obviously switch. I don't NEED to keep it in. And if a SR lead is busy trying to get rid of Jolteon instead of setting up SR, I feel like Jolteon is doing its job.

 

[Wave⁂]

If he EQ's your sub and then SR's, what then?

If you Substitute, you win.

If you Baton Pass to your Scizor, you win.

 

[UltiMario]

It turns out it was a surprise Babiri LeadTar with Fire Punch.

 

[Fuelbi]

pretty sure ttar leads win, they can EQ you and set up SR while your t-bolt doesn't do much damage to that monstrous special defense of his

i think other than that though, he may win but aerodactyl is really iffy only because of the speed tie (which you can't do anything about)

Excuse me but I'm pretty sure Jolteon would win in this case. Wouldn't Ttar be weak to HP grass?

Unless that Jolteon is monstrously slow, which it isn't in this case, Ttar would get to EQ first and KO it or set SR first.

I AM right rght?

 

[UltiMario]

Except this one has HP Ice.

 

[Fuelbi]

Except this one has HP Ice.

Wait never mind.

The previous posts confused me.

Then I say that Ttar could defeat that Jolteon then, if it didn't choose to baton pass anyways.

 

[The Real Gamer]

This lead isn't all that great against anti-leads, but against most standard SR leads, it almost always does its job.

 

[UltiMario]

Oh, and BTW...

Some lead Stuff-

Swampert- Can spam EQ to hell and back and you'll probably lose somewhere down the line. If you switch to HP Grass, OHKO.

TTar- Now you can actually hurt it with HPGrass.

Roserade- Sub and then Tbolt to break sash, then pass. Don't need HP Ice.

Hippo- HP Grass does as much as HP Ice, obv.

Gliscor- You can't OHKO Gliscor anymore. I'd say probably 2HKO, but not OHKO :/

DNite- You go from winning this to completely losing this.

Now, Pert, TTar, Roserade, and Hippo are much more common that Gliscor and DNite. I say HPGrass > Ice simply because of Lead Utility.

 

[mood4food77]

I second that notion of going to HP grass

so, machamp leads are apparently amazing

 

[UltiMario]

so, machamp leads are apparently amazing

Wrong thread :V

Also they're OK, but eventually the lead metagame will adapt to them with like Zen Heabutters and stuff lol

 

[Gates]

Azelf's Zen Headbutt actually doesn't OHKO Machamp, even with 252 Atk.

 

[UltiMario]

That doesn't make sense. An Unboosted Psychic will barely miss the KO on 252/96 Machamp, so with a naturally lower defense that and 0Def EVs, Zen Headbutt should easily OHKO.

 

[Gates]

I was surprised too, but it's true.

Azelf@Focus Sash Jolly 252 Atk Zen Headbutt vs. Machamp@Lum Berry 252 HP/0 Def = 79.7-94.3%

I guess the -10 power in the attack makes a difference. However...

Azelf@Focus Sash Adamant 252 Atk Zen Headbutt vs. Machamp@Lum Berry 252 HP/0 Def = 88-103.6%

So Adamant will OHKO Machamp but be slower and potentially risky against other fast leads like Infernape.

Lead Metagross will almost always OHKO lead Machamp with Zen Headbutt though.

 

[Metal~Mario]

^That's pretty interesting.

I'll have to remember that.

This thread makes me want to breed a Jolteon now.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Oh, and BTW...

Some lead Stuff-

Swampert- Can spam EQ to hell and back and you'll probably lose somewhere down the line. If you switch to HP Grass, OHKO.

TTar- Now you can actually hurt it with HPGrass.

Roserade- Sub and then Tbolt to break sash, then pass. Don't need HP Ice.

Hippo- HP Grass does as much as HP Ice, obv.

Gliscor- You can't OHKO Gliscor anymore. I'd say probably 2HKO, but not OHKO :/

DNite- You go from winning this to completely losing this.

Now, Pert, TTar, Roserade, and Hippo are much more common that Gliscor and DNite. I say HPGrass > Ice simply because of Lead Utility.

I'm liking this a lot. I mainly chose HP Ice over Grass because of my fear of Nite and Mence, but now it seems as if Jolteon would benefit from HP Grass more. Plus I run LO Starmie on my team so I already have an Ice move to take care of them both. I'll try out Grass and see how it goes.

+rep for U-tilt Mario

 

[UltiMario]

Also, I'd like to say that this lead is sorta mediocre seeing as if it has to function like an Anti-lead, it'll get switched into by something that CAN take it down and kill it. If it has to work as a Subpasser and can't afford to be an anti-lead, then the opposing lead sorta wins by getting out SR and attacking.

On a good number of leads it works really, really well, but it really is a complete win or lose with little inbetween.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Lol wow I just found out Jolteon can handle lead Ninjask without the need of a phazer. Sub when it starts out with Protect, then attack Ninjask to break its sub that it will most likely try to set up (if it doesn't, it's dead). I can then Baton Pass to my Trick Room Bronzong, which will make all of those speed boosts that Ninjask was trying to pass useless.

 

[Gates]

What if the Ninjask doesn't suck and Subs turn 1?