Jaystring's mod thread

[jaystring]

Yeah, the DL link is broken. Mumble mumble media fire mumble mumble piracy mumble mumble.

Here you are :
https://www.dropbox.com/s/x1sops8e1v02ybw/STGFINAL.pac?dl=0

It's using a Final Destination Rel, so make a FD rel over any stage you want to use it and should be good to go

That was me btw. It was supposed to be the last Snake texture for the Smash3 pack, but we never got around to finishing it. A shame really, tracking down the model took weeks. IIRC, [name redacted] sent the partially rigged model off to Jaystring, which the whole team approved of. Wouldn't be surprised if he re-did the whole rig, there was a lot that needed fixing. Can't wait to finally see it released.

Excellent job on all the models J jaystring (especially my baby, Tux Snake), I understand the frustration with trying to optimize Old Snake. Those models are already as optimized as can be, so the only other plausible solution would be to create a low poly using the PS4 model as a guide, which is more time consuming than necessary.

Also, as reference, MGS5 Sneaking Suit is around 7k tris or so. No idea about facepoint count though.

Thank you!

yeah when I received your half-done model, mine was already almost done so I never used it.

A total coincidence that I was working on him at the same time.

It's totally possible to make a lower res MGS4 old Snake. it's just a much bigger project then what I had planned for him and I don't want to start a big project with Old Snake. i'll try making an acceptable Wii version but i'll do it by cutting everywhere I can that's not time consuming and cutting some "features" like facial expression for eyes etc (facial expression are almost never noticed anyway in gameplay situation. except the "talking" at the winning screen where it looks really off if the mouth is not changing, the rest is never noticed)

I admit, I cheap out a bit with Wii version sometimes (except maybe when it's a reaally high demand export but nobody asked me for Old Snake) but that's because I make my mods to use them personally on my dolphin build and I don't have a Wii anymore to test them properly on the console anyway + I prefer passing the time on more new mods.

I just took a look at some MGS5 model for fun.

I'm surprised! they are not as high res as I was expecting them to be. Snake is 16 000 triangle. That almost the same as MGS4 old Snake. Quiet is at 15 300 triangles.

But MGS5 model have waaaaay more complex hairs. just thinking about splitting those into pieces for XLU material makes me have nightmare!

 

[DekZek]

Here you are :
https://www.dropbox.com/s/x1sops8e1v02ybw/STGFINAL.pac?dl=0

It's using a Final Destination Rel, so make a FD rel over any stage you want to use it and should be good to go

I would download it, but I will just wait for the better version.

It's totally possible to make a lower res MGS4 old Snake. it's just a much bigger project then what I had planned for him and I don't want to start a big project with Old Snake. i'll try making an acceptable Wii version but i'll do it by cutting everywhere I can that's not time consuming and cutting some "features" like facial expression for eyes etc (facial expression are almost never noticed anyway in gameplay situation. except the "talking" at the winning screen where it looks really off if the mouth is not changing, the rest is never noticed)

Didn't you say Metal Shaders were one thing that was taking a lot of data? Try reducing those and see how it goes.

I admit, I cheap out a bit with Wii version sometimes

Stop doing that please. I can only play with my Wii for various reasons. (Shared family computer, tech specs, etc.)

(except maybe when it's a reaally high demand export but nobody asked me for Old Snake)

Asks Jaystring for Old Snake.

but that's because I make my mods to use them personally on my dolphin build and I don't have a Wii anymore to test them properly on the console anyway + I prefer passing the time on more new mods.

If you have a Wii U you can run it on the Wii mode.

I just took a look at some MGS5 model for fun.

I'm surprised! they are not as high res as I was expecting them to be. Snake is 16 000 triangle. That almost the same as MGS4 old Snake. Quiet is at 15 300 triangles.

So... Do I use the MGS3 Snake or the MGS5 Snake that will inevitably come a few pages later.

But MGS5 model have waaaaay more complex hairs. just thinking about splitting those into pieces for XLU material makes me have nightmare!

If it's that bad, might it be easier to recreate the hair from scratch? Just a suggestion, idk how feasible that would be.

 

[Luis Alonso]

So Brawl Snake is 16k triangles?

 

[jaystring]

So Brawl Snake is 16k triangles?

No, Default Brawl Snake is about 11k Triangles but that include facial expressions. facial expressions takes up a lot of triangles. MGS5 Snake at 16k tri was his base model without extra head. you have to add 5 additionnal heads to that count to get the real Brawl numbers

I would download it, but I will just wait for the better version.



Didn't you say Metal Shaders were one thing that was taking a lot of data? Try reducing those and see how it goes.



Stop doing that please. I can only play with my Wii for various reasons. (Shared family computer, tech specs, etc.)



Asks Jaystring for Old Snake.


If you have a Wii U you can run it on the Wii mode.


So... Do I use the MGS3 Snake or the MGS5 Snake that will inevitably come a few pages later.


If it's that bad, might it be easier to recreate the hair from scratch? Just a suggestion, idk how feasible that would be.

1) I suggest you download it because I don't think i'll be making tweaks to the stage before long. I will need to get myself fully familiar with stage imports first! It was more of a "I would like to do it somedays" thing. very low in the priorities list

2) yeah metal shader do take up a good chunk of space (they don't take a lot in the grand scheme of thing but when digging for filesize, everything counts). I don't know of any way to "optimize" metal shader. it's either it's there or not. I would rather keep it to be honest as metal box without the effect looks cheap. I would rather cut on stuff we barely see first

3)Sorry about that. I'll try making a version for wii for sure but I was mostly saying that it's not my main focus version. The Wii version exist because I'm nice! I'm never using them personally

4) lol!

5) yeah I know I can run Brawl on the Wii U. That was the initial reason why I kept all my Wii Game but not the console, to run them on the Wii U. But then I tried dolphin and now, to be honest, I've got Zero interest in runnig wii game at 480p anymore. i've never used the wii mode of my Wii U.

6) Haha! Use MGS3 Snake. MGS5 Snake is not coming soon, I was looking at it for fun. He's not part of my "first batch" of MGS mods. I'm not saying i'll never do it but I don't know in how many pages he's gonna pop up!

7) nah, it's not harder, it's just more long and more work.

i'm getting a bit technical here but if you open my models in Brawlbox, you'll notice that most of my mods have their hairs split in tons of different polygons object.

This is not done on random, it's an anoying requirement to correctly use XLU materials. XLU material require to have drawpriorites set and it cannot render correctly 2 object one over the other without drawpriorities.

So I have to split all the hair from "the most under rendered hair" to the "hair on top". then set them different draw priorities.

It's as tedious as it sound. MGS5 snake has tons of layer of hair so it will make it harder for me.

 

[Luis Alonso]

So what's the ideal poly count? Or at least what's the maximum file limit?

 

[blerb]

Ideal tricount is <15k~ for the most part. The less, the better. Once you pass 15k, your remaining budget shrinks significantly across all assets. You should still be lagless assuming some of those tris are from expression geometry. If not, you might have to shave some tris off if you intend to get your mod running lag-free on Wii.

Also J jaystring send me MGS4 Snake if you'd like me to optimize it for you. Should be able to get it looking passable on Wii. Fingers crossed, anyway.

 

[jaystring]

So what's the ideal poly count? Or at least what's the maximum file limit?

yeah, like Blerb said, ideally it's better to try to keep it under 15k.

Technically, there is no limit for triangles (but there is one for filesize and more triangle=more filesize).

the 15k is an aproximate value for lag reason on Wii. but also, a better answer is try to keep it close the the original model it's replacing (some simpler model like mario doesn't have 15k triangles)

for filesize, it's a bit more complicated. Filesize is actually a cap in memory budget hardcoded into the game that tells the game to stop working (crash) if these numbers are going higher the limit. probably to protect the Hardware (wii) I guest.

I know the max value is an addition of multiple files (like the fitmotion + the fitXXX.pac + the numbered pac and pcs) so it's pretty hard to get a number, it's different for every character and if one of those files change, it can lead to go over the limit and crash.

The way I find the limit is crashing, then reduce filesize until it stop crashing. Then, once it stop crashing, make it bigger again bits by bits until it crash again so then I know approximately the limit.

Ideal tricount is <15k~ for the most part. The less, the better. Once you pass 15k, your remaining budget shrinks significantly across all assets. You should still be lagless assuming some of those tris are from expression geometry. If not, you might have to shave some tris off if you intend to get your mod running lag-free on Wii.

Also J jaystring send me MGS4 Snake if you'd like me to optimize it for you. Should be able to get it looking passable on Wii. Fingers crossed, anyway.

Yeah I can send you my MGS4 Snake sourcedata once i'm done if you want to optimize it even more then I'll do!

I'm going to have half the job done because I've already started an optimized version of him where i'm cutting triangles manually. I'm cutting everything that doesn't break my skinning so I'm not been as agressive as I could have been but I've cut at least 1000 triangles on the vest up until now (it went from 3500 tri to 2500 I believe).

My wii version will also have partial facial expressions (moving mouth but no eye movement) like some other Wii Version I,ve made in the past.

 

[britipinojeff]

So i dunno if anybody else agrees, but i wouldn't mind having the Old Snake costume with lower quality textures. On Wii I don't think I would see a huge difference. Also if you wouldn't lower the textures then would I just set them to the same numbers that would be on any other snake costume?

 

[jaystring]

So i dunno if anybody else agrees, but i wouldn't mind having the Old Snake costume with lower quality textures. On Wii I don't think I would see a huge difference. Also if you wouldn't lower the textures then would I just set them to the same numbers that would be on any other snake costume?

Don't Worry about Old Snake, there will be a Wii version, I just finished a successful import with more acceptable texture size.

Of course, it won't be as nice as the dolphin version but that was to be expected.

The Wii version has 4000 triangle less then the Dolphin version and has some cut features (no eye expression, no XLU material for the hairs (so less good looking hairs), very not noticeable text on the body has been cut to save a texture.)

The dolphin version will still use the very crappy texture and be designed to be used with HD texture. If someone don't want to use HD textures for whatever reason, they can use the Wii version.

Here a quick look at them as they are right now

Keep in mind this is not finished. I've not polished the textures + I want to add material and shader effect (like a specular to his plastic material on his suit). This will help hide the fact that his body texture on Wii is not that high res.

WIP Wii Version

WIP Dolphin Version in comparaison

 

[jaystring]

Some more Old Snake WIP

I have started the process of ajusting / painting his textures to fit Brawl

He also now have a special material for his body that has specular and slight rim light to give the "plastic look" of his body suit.

The specular is dynamic so will move with lighting etc (It's basically a tone down version of my ZSS body material)

 

[ledgerewskie]

Wow, that looks way better than I would have imagined.

 

[ToaFierceDeityLink]

Some more Old Snake WIP

I have started the process of ajusting / painting his textures to fit Brawl

He also now have a special material for his body that has specular and slight rim light to give the "plastic look" of his body suit.

The specular is dynamic so will move with lighting etc (It's basically a tone down version of my ZSS body material)

is that an Okami themed stage?

 

[jaystring]

is that an Okami themed stage?

yes it is

here : http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=13629

I like the stage, the layout is pretty cool. I just removed the static Amaterasu in the middle which I thought looked weird been there without moving.

 

[ToaFierceDeityLink]

yes it is

here : http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=13629

I like the stage, the layout is pretty cool. I just removed the static Amaterasu in the middle which I thought looked weird been there without moving.

not to mention that they seemed to of used Wolf Links Model, why is that?

 

[jaystring]

not to mention that they seemed to of used Wolf Links Model, why is that?

no idea!

actually, I didn't even noticed it was wolf link retextured before!

 

[jaystring]

Texture updates (it's almost final now) + New Young Snake costume for Old Snake!

 

[sinistersnakesennin]

Texture updates (it's almost final now) + New Young Snake costume for Old Snake!

Jesus, its gorgeous WOW

 

[Obskore]

awesome, for some reason the model looks like it's from Smash 4, while Snake isn't even in it, it looks that good.
now, if only there was an official HD model of MGS1 Snake to port for brawl

 

[CardiganBoy]

awesome, for some reason the model looks like it's from Smash 4, while Snake isn't even in it, it looks that good.
now, if only there was an official HD model of MGS1 Snake to port for brawl

I always thought MGS4 Young Snake's head on MGS5 Sneaking Suit (without the robotic arm ofc) would have been an ideal design for Snake if he was in Smash 4.

 

[josxx1803]

I always thought MGS4 Young Snake's head on MGS5 Sneaking Suit (without the robotic arm ofc) would have been an ideal design for Snake if he was in Smash 4.

I agree, it looks just right! Tho, now we can make it happen.

Spoiler

Is it weird that I look dumbfounded at your gif, imagining that Samus and Dark Samus are dancing to "It's not unsual" by Tom Jones?

 

[CardiganBoy]

I agree, it looks just right! Tho, now we can make it happen.

Spoiler

Is it weird that I look dumbfounded at your gif, imagining that Samus and Dark Samus are dancing to "It's not unsual" by Tom Jones?

I really like how MGS5 Sneaking Suit has some bulkiness to it plus, you can't go wrong with the vest, i imagine it looking pretty stylish in action.

Spoiler

Also, Tom Jones gives new meaning to Samus and Dark Samus dancing

 

[josxx1803]

I really like how MGS5 Sneaking Suit has some bulkiness to it plus, you can't go wrong with the vest, i imagine it looking pretty stylish in action.

Spoiler

Also, Tom Jones gives new meaning to Samus and Dark Samus dancing

While I really like how bulky Snake looks in the MGS5 Sneaking suit, I'm not too sold with the vest, it has a good color to it but too much paraphernalia IMO.

Spoiler

And now I'm gonna give a whole new meaning to "It's not unusual", listen to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYIwPu50Fic

 

[jaystring]

Jesus, its gorgeous WOW

Thank you!!!

awesome, for some reason the model looks like it's from Smash 4, while Snake isn't even in it, it looks that good.
now, if only there was an official HD model of MGS1 Snake to port for brawl

I want a good quality MGS1 Snake too so I might do one someday! I've got the twin snake model which doesn't look that good but I think it would be possible to combine the twin snake model with the brawl model then add custom details to bring it up on part with the rest.

I would like to do it but I can tell you now, he's not planned for this batch of MGS stuff i'm doing so don't expect him in the next few pages!

I always thought MGS4 Young Snake's head on MGS5 Sneaking Suit (without the robotic arm ofc) would have been an ideal design for Snake if he was in Smash 4.

For me, It's a personnal opinion but, I like the MGS5 Snake head better then the young MGS4 Snake.

The MGS5 head looks more badass and more "This guy has seen some s**t" then MGS4 Young Snake, where, I don't know, he feel more rookie like..

But yeah maybe it's just a Solid Snake VS Big Boss Think. They always seem to make Big Boss look more badass then Snake.

 

[CardiganBoy]

For me, It's a personnal opinion but, I like the MGS5 Snake head better then the young MGS4 Snake.

The MGS5 head looks more badass and more "This guy has seen some s**t" then MGS4 Young Snake, where, I don't know, he feel more rookie like..

But yeah maybe it's just a Solid Snake VS Big Boss Think. They always seem to make Big Boss look more badass then Snake.

I like to imagine him as a combination of both Solid and Big Boss, even though Brawl Snake is sometimes considered this way already, but both look really good, and with that in mind, what if he had little variations like AC Cloud? that would be cool too.

And also found this, which is more or less how i imagine him in Smash 4:

Maybe he would just need some slight texture adjustements to fit the art style.

 

[jaystring]

I like to imagine him as a combination of both Solid and Big Boss, even though Brawl Snake is sometimes considered this way already, but both look really good, and with that in mind, what if he had little variations like AC Cloud? that would be cool too.

And also found this, which is more or less how i imagine him in Smash 4:

Maybe he would just need some slight texture adjustements to fit the art style.

Even if I like the head better, there is 1 thing I do not like about the MGS5 model that is made really apparent in your image

They made the MGS5 model reaaally bulky compare to older entries. I liked the thinner look better.

I won't be making more variations for now (Old Snake comes with 4 costumes and MGS3 Snake will have I think 9 + all the millions of camos/facepaints) but nothing prevent me to do some as future update like I did to many of my mods before (Justin Bailey, Protoman, etc)

 

[jaystring]

He's a look at the last 2 costumes for Old Snake

Young Snake with Solid Eye (Young Snake also got some edit to his face and hairs. I ajusted the tint to blend better with the brawl and MGS3 model. His skin tone and hair color was too red before.

Old Snake without Solid Eye

And finally, here's how the Wii Version will look. THe wii version has the same "plastic" material effect on the suit as the dolphin version. It's just less highres.

 

[Obskore]

oh the Wii version's not too shabby, very good

 

[Heavy D88]

The reason MGS5's suit looks so bulky is because it's older styled armor that didn't have as good of bullet protection, so it was fitted with thin ceramic plating throughout the workings of the suit.

 

[jaystring]

oh the Wii version's not too shabby, very good

Thanks! yeah that's the best I could do before he went into the "huge revamp for Wii" category where I didn't want to go.

Even if he's blurry a bit, I think he's gonna look fine in 480p.

The reason MGS5's suit looks so bulky is because it's older styled armor that didn't have as good of bullet protection, so it was fitted with thin ceramic plating throughout the workings of the suit.

yeah I guest you're right but still, kind of weird having him dress as a Tank to do sneaking stuff.

He does look less bulky in some costumes but they still did modify his body type a bit. Regardless of costumes, he's not the same shape he was in other games.

 

[Heavy D88]

"Dress as a tank..." Lol, you should see his heavy armor for extra protection. THAT is him dressing as a tank. It's so ridiculously huge.

 

[jaystring]

"Dress as a tank..." Lol, you should see his heavy armor for extra protection. THAT is him dressing as a tank. It's so ridiculously huge.

yeah I know which one you are talking about!!

 

[cramazzratazz]

wow, that young solid face honestly looks better than 100% of all the other mods ive seen attempted. it's always been some sort of nitpicky thing i have with snakes absurdly detailed face. oh man, jaystring.

 

[jaystring]

wow, that young solid face honestly looks better than 100% of all the other mods ive seen attempted. it's always been some sort of nitpicky thing i have with snakes absurdly detailed face. oh man, jaystring.

Thank you!!

------------------------

The last 3 Wii versions are done now

Only CSP left to do for both MGS3 Snakes and MGS4 Snakes.

 

[jaystring]

So, I appologize in advance. I have a very very busy week and I very unlikely to have time do MGS3 and MGS4 Snake CSPs this week and release him.

That been said, I do have something cool and new to show!

So, here's 2 Hyrule Warrior Ganondorf :

Notice anything!? Well, here's a closer look :

So yeah, the left model is the low res version I've been working on. It's now down to 21800k triangles (from the 32600k original) which is getting really really close to be possible to port on Brawl (there's still some more optimization to be done but it's getting close).

I've not treated this one like Old Snake, It was one of the most tedious task i've done for modding.

I literally went in the model for hours, piece by piece, selecting by hand each edge and vertex to delete to control as much as possible where I was gonna cut and keep quality as high as possible.

I'm getting very close to not been able to cut without compromising quality so it's very likely that I will do like Old Snake and make 2 version, 1 for Dolphin and one optimised more agressively for Wii.

tl;dr : Hyrule Warrior Ganondorf for Project M and Brawl is going to be a reality pretty soon!

 

[DekZek]

Good. Now I don't have to keep on trying to steal me copy of Smash Wii U from my cousin. http://gamebanana.com/skins/148875

 

[Chaosblade77]

Snake looks great, Wii version should look nice at 480p. And I can't wait for HW Ganondorf.

This is probably a dumb question since I know almost nothing about Brawl modding and 3D modeling in general, but is the hair going to have physics/move? I've gotten the impression that what can normally get physics added is pretty restricted, but that might be totally wrong.

 

[jaystring]

Good. Now I don't have to keep on trying to steal me copy of Smash Wii U from my cousin. http://gamebanana.com/skins/148875

Well, DSX8 (the creator of the linked Smash4 mod) did told me good luck with the HW Ganondorf import for Project M. He knows how much crazy work it really is to port him to Brawl!

Snake looks great, Wii version should look nice at 480p. And I can't wait for HW Ganondorf.

This is probably a dumb question since I know almost nothing about Brawl modding and 3D modeling in general, but is the hair going to have physics/move? I've gotten the impression that what can normally get physics added is pretty restricted, but that might be totally wrong.

It's not a dumb question.

I don't know much about playing with adding bones and stuff. I always restrict myself to using the one from the model to make sure it's more compatible to everyone.

In the case of HW Ganondorf, we are lucky because he has long hairs but no cape, and Brawl ganondorf happen to have a cape. So his hairs will be rigged to the cape which, with some of my rigging tricks, should make it look ok with the hairs yes.

I've not tested it yet because i'm not actually close to start rigging him but i'm pretty confident it will work with his cape bones.

 

[Draco_The]

PM's Dead Man's Volley will be hilarious.

You can only add physics to characters that don't have them, and there's no way to make custom ones, so it's not possible to give Ganondorf separate hair and cape physics.

On the other hand you can add bones to any character without any problems as long as they are moved to the end of the bone array in BrawlBox. These can be used for stuff like physics, making certain objects visible during certain moves, rigging objects to those bones and animate them, and more.

 

[The Peacekeeper]

So, here's 2 Hyrule Warrior Ganondorf :

Notice anything!? Well, here's a closer look :

So yeah, the left model is the low res version I've been working on. It's now down to 21800k triangles (from the 32600k original) which is getting really really close to be possible to port on Brawl (there's still some more optimization to be done but it's getting close).

I've not treated this one like Old Snake, It was one of the most tedious task i've done for modding.

I literally went in the model for hours, piece by piece, selecting by hand each edge and vertex to delete to control as much as possible where I was gonna cut and keep quality as high as possible.

I'm getting very close to not been able to cut without compromising quality so it's very likely that I will do like Old Snake and make 2 version, 1 for Dolphin and one optimised more agressively for Wii.

tl;dr : Hyrule Warrior Ganondorf for Project M and Brawl is going to be a reality pretty soon!

It's.... beautiful!

 

[jaystring]

Soo, hum, I might need your help!

I've been trying to pose MGS3 Snake for 2 days now and i'll be honest, I'm having a hard time...

I initially tried to pose him with his knive and Socom in his trademark CQC pose but after many attempts, I couldn't get it right...

I might be good at modeling and porting model but Posing is not my biggest strength

It's particularly annoying with MGS3 Snake because I really want to get it right to render all those camos/facepaints after which is going to take a while.

So yeah, I'm curious to see if anyone is willing to help me out creating a cool pose for Snake.

let me know if you are good at posing and willing to help!

Essentially this is the only thing left to get Old Snake and MGS3 Snake pack out.

Also, I initially kept the Project M MGS3 model's skinning as it was, thinking it was probably pretty good. While it looked ok in-game, I had tons of issues with it when trying to pose him, realizing the skinning had some part which were not done that good.

It was annoying me so I decided to update those as well so my updated MGS3 Snake will also have a better rig.

and finally, digging into MGS3's source data, I found new facepaints + all the facepaints for the head without bandana. I'll include all those in the pack too.