Japanese Tier List

[JesusFreak]

OMFG AGAIN?! But Wait! He has relevant info!

GOD
Fox 10

TOP
Shiek 8.5
Marth 8.3
Peach 8.2
Falco 8.1

BOTTOM

Bowser 1.0
Mewtwo 0.5

And in respone to all the Tier freaks out there: "no need care about it" "just enjoy ssbm "

 

[RaGNoRaK]

Lol, thats pretty funny. SSBM only has 7 Chars now? :/

I hope this is a joke.

 

[demoncaterpie]

Originally posted by RaGNoRaK
Lol, thats pretty funny. SSBM only has 7 Chars now? :/

I hope this is a joke.

Don't worry Jesus, I know what your talking about.

That's a very interesting list. I never thought Peach and Falco would be up their with Marth and Shiek. And Fox is on top? Very interesting...

 

[JesusFreak]

Originally posted by RaGNoRaK
Lol, thats pretty funny. SSBM only has 7 Chars now? :/

I hope this is a joke.

No it's not. It seems liek you are tho, because you can't even see what this says. XD

Who said it was a list of all the characters? This is just what i was told.

Maybe He just listed the ones he knew straight off because he didn't want to go through all the others? Seriously, think before you post.

 

[CORY]

i smell fire. if it comes to that, i'm dousing this thread...

 

[Thomas Tipman]

list looks like i thought it would (- the peach an falco???)

 

[TestRider]

Maybe He just listed the ones he knew straight off because he didn't want to go through all the others?

Who's "he"?

..............."HE's gonna give it to ya..."

 

[The GERM]

I actually remember Captain Jack saying something about Doc and Mario being top Tier in Japan because nobody really "counters" them specifically so they basically stand a good chance against any character cause they're the most evenly balanced.......or he could've just been talking Japanese.........

 

[Undrdog]

is anyone here BiLingual? and if so, does anyone have Capt. Jacks # and about $200 for long distance? but really i wonder where Link and Samus fall on thier version of the tier list... >_>

 

[VilNess]

Come to think of it, why isn´t at least doc. higher than hes know in our tier? He doesn´t have as much bad matches as, say ganondorf. Kinda makes me think...
I´m not sure about mario, but I haven´t played that much with THE plumber, so...
Oh, not meaning to turn this to normal tier conversation instead of japanese one.

 

[Yuna]

To "that guy":
Why are you surprised? The American tierlist has been Sheik - Marth - Fox - Falco - Peach for a long time. Why are you the least surprised Falco and Peach are in the Top5 of the Japanese tierlist?

And finally the bird got lowered! My God he is useless on some stages.

 

[quickman_Zero]

Hey, Pichu isn't stuck to the bottom? Heck, he isn't even in Bottom tier? Woah, that's really something. We all know Mewtwo seriously sucks but I never thought he'd be bottom. Oh well, there you have it....Wonder where Kirby and Roy are...

 

[The GERM]

I just remember Captain Jack talking about this one Japanese player who's called "Brown Mario", he said he saw nobobdy at TG6 who matched his skill and if he came to the US, Mario would be top tier.........

 

[CaliburChamp]

Japanese players use Ganon for a reason...

 

[Cloud Strife X]

Originally posted by The GERM
I just remember Captain Jack talking about this one Japanese player who's called "Brown Mario", he said he saw nobobdy at TG6 who matched his skill and if he came to the US, Mario would be top tier.........

Mario??? I somewhat see where that is coming from but I still think that fox is the danm cursed goat o_O

He deserves top tier...only thing is he takes 2 much effort and comands <_< but when thats down...you have a demon on ur hands

 

[tsetse]

Originally posted by JesusFreak
OMFG AGAIN?! But Wait! He has relevant info!

GOD
Fox 10

TOP
Shiek 8.5
Marth 8.3
Peach 8.2
Falco 8.1

BOTTOM

Bowser 1.0
Mewtwo 0.5

And in respone to all the Tier freaks out there: "no need care about it" "just enjoy ssbm "

So where does C Falcon Stand. And why is M2 Lower than Bowser. And why?????????????????


So many Questions!

 

[MookieRah]

As a M2 player, i can definitely see why M2 is considered the worst character in the game. Lately Bowser has been a character people have been picking up and getting pretty darn good with it seems like. I have experimented with the big turtle demon too and I can see how he would have more potential than M2. I think M2 is bad as ****, and is actually one of my better characters (heh, kinda funny I think) but he is slow, has poor range, slow smashes, etc. The only good things he has are his throws, his tail moves, and his forward air(it has a ridiculously short range, although it is prolly his best KO move outside of his throws).

I would like to see Link and Roy's placements on the Japanese tiers. I have seen vids of Aniki's Link and I know he made 8th at the biggest Japanese tourny. Also, Musashi owns with Roy and made 2nd. Although Musashi also uses Fox and Marth, he is capable of defeating CJ's Fox and Marth with Roy.

 

[Ryuker]

Wasn't the japanese version of the game the same as the NTSC one. So why would the tiers be different?

 

[demoncaterpie]

Originally posted by Ryuker
Wasn't the japanese version of the game the same as the NTSC one. So why would the tiers be different?

The Japanese have different rules for how tiers are ranked. They rank characters based on how many wins someone has made with them, not overall moves or skills.

At least, I'm pretty sure that's how they do it...

 

[MookieRah]

What are you talking about demoncaterpie? O_o...

I am pretty sure (99% postive and I am too lazy to check) the Japanese rank characters based on their matchups with all the other characters. They get a rating (like 9 out of 10) for a matchup and after they have all the matchups ranked they get the average. That's why there are numbers like 8.5, 8.3, etc. I am also pretty sure that they only play on 2 stages in tournies (I think that is Battlefield and FD).

Our tiers are different for a variety of reasons. First off, they were created by votes in general. There was a lot discussion and stuff going on and in the end the tiers we have are what was generally agreed upon. Also, most tournies play a lot more levels, which means if we wanted to make a tier list like the japanese have done it would also have to take account the stages influence, thus making it a HUGE process that would take more time than it's worth.

 

[VilNess]

there is a reason for pichu not being bottom. Japanese players are probably so good that they can (some at least) take advantage of pichus speed and juglging ability.. Pichu uair is awesome!
this IMO so no flaming but it sounds rational.

 

[demoncaterpie]

Originally posted by MookieRah
What are you talking about demoncaterpie? O_o...

I am pretty sure (99% postive and I am too lazy to check) the Japanese rank characters based on their matchups with all the other characters. They get a rating (like 9 out of 10) for a matchup and after they have all the matchups ranked they get the average. That's why there are numbers like 8.5, 8.3, etc. I am also pretty sure that they only play on 2 stages in tournies (I think that is Battlefield and FD).

Our tiers are different for a variety of reasons. First off, they were created by votes in general. There was a lot discussion and stuff going on and in the end the tiers we have are what was generally agreed upon. Also, most tournies play a lot more levels, which means if we wanted to make a tier list like the japanese have done it would also have to take account the stages influence, thus making it a HUGE process that would take more time than it's worth.

I wasn't a hundred percent sure MookieRah. Thanks for clearing up my mistake.

 

[MookieRah]

LOL, my bad for my choice of words, I didn't want to make it sound like I was coming down on yas DCP, but I just thought your statement was odd :-P.

 

[Qwester]

Originally posted by VilNess
Pichu uair is awesome!

It does 2 damage!

However, it does set up nicely for f-smash at lower percentages on FFers.
Pichu, while he can do some nasty things against some characters... he's not that useful vs the majority of the cast and even the matches where he plays better than the rest, he still doesn't have much of an advantage.

 

[demoncaterpie]

Originally posted by MookieRah
LOL, my bad for my choice of words, I didn't want to make it sound like I was coming down on yas DCP, but I just thought your statement was odd :-P.

No offense taken MR.

Now, back on topic, Peach's ranking seems too high. I mean, she's a great character in all, but better then Falco? Also, Fox beating Shiek was an eye opener for me because I always thought Shiek was the best. Leave it to the Japanese to confuse everyone again (Remember Magic Pengel?).

 

[tsetse]

Well if you look 8.2 and 8.1 are not much different at all. IMHO Peach is better than falco.

 

[Yuna]

Fox and Sheik are very close in NTSC, however, Fox is better than Sheik if both are played perfectly. However, for PAL, the game was changed so that Fox reigns superior.

The PAL tierlist goes like this: Fox, Sheik, Marth, Falco, Peach

Now, I see no problem in Peach being 4th tier. Why shouldn't she be? She has some natural weaknesses, but she makes up for those with great strengths. And she doesn't have many truly bad matchups. However, unlike Marth, for example, Peach has to develop different strategies for different foes. One style cannot win all battles.

And she is so obviously superior to Falco.

 

[VilNess]

yes, its damage sucks... but how about 20 uairs? that´s over 40 (because first does 4%)
No I am not saying it´s easy to link 20 uairs but I still think despise the damage that it´s a veru good uair due to the range, speed and priority.
Off course Im not saying pichu should be much higher than it´s now but theres some juggle potential in that rat...

I agree with you qwester, too many bad matchups...

 

[DYC]

There were some changes b/w the Japanese and US versions but nothing too major i believe. the only one i can think of off hand is they reduced the percentage that Ganon's Dair does in the US version from the japanese version.

 

[demoncaterpie]

Hey JesusFreak, could you finish your chart? I'd like to see the rankings for middle and low tier.

 

[pictish freak]

Uh, FAII, keep in mind there isn't in fact a PAL tier list. That's the PAL tier list IYO >.>; Lets not give people the wrong ideas here..

 

[Yuna]

That's not the tierlist IMO. It's the tierlist in the opinion of the people who compared NTSC vs PAL (weights, attacks, nerfing, etc.).

 

[Qwester]

Yuna: it wasn't agreed on as being THE pal tier top 5. (in that order)

 

[JesusFreak]

I laugh at all of you who act like you know about the japanese Tier List. I got this from Captain Jack himself. I don't know what he thinks about Doc, Mario, or Falcon but I will ask him. he also never mentioned this "brown mario" to me but again I will see what he says.

I love the fact that i didn't reply for 3 pages. I did that on purpose. I love seeing how people react when a lot think they know things that they don't. The Japanese Tier list is made differently than ours. They really only compare the top characters. One reason why Sheik isn't the best to them is because 1: they don't chain throw, and 2: even if they did, sheik's CT doesn't work on any of the top 5 besides another sheik.

 

[tsetse]

Anyways this is Kinda on topic check out cj new site> http://ssbm.captainjack.jp/index2.html

 

[Emacee]

In response to the people who are posting about the completeness of the list, it is presented in such a way because CJ supposedly said that the Japanese only consider the the top characters that matter but the bottom characters are shown because it's obvious that they are bottom material to them. Also, Magic Jesus probably got verbal confirmation of this from CJ so he probably only had time to tell MJ the important stuff: "Who is on top and who is on bottom?"

It's sort of like Marvel vs. Capcom 2 tournaments where you only see 12 or so characters that matter.

 

[demoncaterpie]

Originally posted by Emacee
In response to the people who are posting about the completeness of the list, it is presented in such a way because CJ supposedly said that the Japanese only consider the the top characters that matter but the bottom characters are shown because it's obvious that they are bottom material to them. Also, Magic Jesus probably got verbal confirmation of this from CJ so he probably only had time to tell MJ the important stuff: "Who is on top and who is on bottom?"

It's sort of like Marvel vs. Capcom 2 tournaments where you only see 12 or so characters that matter.

So you'll never see Pika or Donkey Kong in the Tier List? That really sucks.

 

[JesusFreak]

Well actually I had a nice long convo with CJ. He laughed at the fact that we have Link mid and DK low tho. He was like "DK is low?! lol how can DK be low?"

 

[AWrulez]

The gap between the Japanese and Americans isn't too big.

btw, info on Brown Mario off CJ's site.
http://ssbm.captainjack.jp/players2.html#brownmario

While searching for CJs vids site on yahoo.com, i found a forum with discussions between a few japanese players, including cj and if you put a few things CJ said into Babelfish, you get:


In Ken 2 times being done with preliminary round and the main lane, with loser league decision in Isai ƒtƒ@?ƒR? Ken which 3 shields is done (^, _ & ^) the fox in order to be able to use, has become super is painful and being seeking confrontation to win in Azen which w simply is defeated with the decision of TG, even if! Being defeated to Azen, with cod prize 0 it has become from tomorrow in everyday life of byte concentration the _ | HBAR | 0 American level it is high, everyone come (^0^)/ > The mouth it is that Wes w which is Wes which is different as for stronger one black ƒEƒFƒX

That shelf of 3 human ‚Á ‚Ä of > Ken ?Isai ?Azen, in the conference + revision it is visible in the human who catches. Rather than revision saying, just it forces normally and increases distantly. The superior 3 people of that America are not different from the Japanese higher rank, (the ?„D HKRPT the ?



This stuff is off here: http://jbbs.livedoor.jp/computer/8457/captainjack.html

 

[CozaMonkey]

This stuff is all very interesting. I'm not surprised Mewtwo is on the very bottom. Never liked him much.

This Brown Mario guy seems very intriguing. Being able to get so good using only CPU's and Action Replay is very cool. It'd be nice to see some vids.