blade_master99
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2008
- Messages
- 21
Whats the point. Some people say its a crucial part to ike' metagame. I can never get it down quick enough and I find it useless. Got any tips?
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jab cancelling
- Thread starter blade_master99
- Start date
3xSwords
Smash Lord
Very helpful, b/c the jab is the combo starter for Ike. By jab canceling if your opponent was shielding your first jab you can cancel it and then grab them. This will make them wary of even shielding. By jab canceling you can mix it up and this deepens Ike's metagame a lot.
If you are doing the shield jab cancel one then it will be very difficult, because if you do an attack to early you will continue jabbing. In order to do it properly you must press the shield button at the last few frames of the jab then do your next command. You can also cancel a jab by crouching which frankly is a lot easier. After you crouch you can do a command in the IASA frames of it letting you do another command. For easier timing you are better off using the crouch canceling method for the jab.
If you are doing the shield jab cancel one then it will be very difficult, because if you do an attack to early you will continue jabbing. In order to do it properly you must press the shield button at the last few frames of the jab then do your next command. You can also cancel a jab by crouching which frankly is a lot easier. After you crouch you can do a command in the IASA frames of it letting you do another command. For easier timing you are better off using the crouch canceling method for the jab.
XSilvenX
Smash Lord
ugh stop using that stupid word. "Metagame". It's not intelligent...it doesn't make you look smart, it just makes you look more like an idiot for using a word that you most likely didn't know the meaning of before the first guy said it....
Now back on topic...
Go to Versa's thread...they're talking about the jab now.
Something quick I can tell you though is that since Ike's jab is hard to get out of, you can spam A,A,A or AA,AA,AA depending on the character. I sometime pull off AA,AA,AAA. It's great for DDDs. Of course the first hit has to make contact, if it doesn't just grab afterwards before the opponent realizes they could shieldgrab.
Now back on topic...
Go to Versa's thread...they're talking about the jab now.
Something quick I can tell you though is that since Ike's jab is hard to get out of, you can spam A,A,A or AA,AA,AA depending on the character. I sometime pull off AA,AA,AAA. It's great for DDDs. Of course the first hit has to make contact, if it doesn't just grab afterwards before the opponent realizes they could shieldgrab.
Doval
Smash Lord
1) Jabs don't combo into anything. They only combo if your opponent is stupid and doesn't shield.
2) Jab canceling with the shield button is a hoax.
3) Jab canceling by crouching works, but it's more trouble than it's worth to do AA;AA when you could just done AAA on most characters.
2) Jab canceling with the shield button is a hoax.
3) Jab canceling by crouching works, but it's more trouble than it's worth to do AA;AA when you could just done AAA on most characters.
3xSwords
Smash Lord
Srry XSilvenX its early in the morning and I don't feel like using different words. And Doval was jab canceling by shield really a hoax? No wonder it didn't seem faster than just timing it.
Doval
Smash Lord
I've looked into it a lot in 1/4 speed in Training Mode. Unless I'm missing something here, and I really doubt I am, the shield command does absolutely nothing. I'm not the only that's come to this conclusion, and it was removed from the new AT compilation thread as a result.
3xSwords
Smash Lord
Yeah I checked it out to. The only one where I found that shield canceling jab was fastest was after the first jab into a grab. I think its b/c the shield got buffered and then it just registered as a shield grab, and if you do A and then z right after you will continue jabbing. So yeah only the first jab->grab was where I found that the shield canceling jab seemed to exist.
Shield cancelling exists; it just doesn't lead into comboes with Ike. You can sheild grab Immediately after AA, but that's about it for shied cancelling nA. Now if you want to combo, you can crouch cancel the jab. You can do a number of things like start a new jab, dsmash, and i'm not sure you may be able to dtilt?! I don't have my own Wii, so my training time is about non-existent. Anyway, oh yeah, if I recall correctly, i believe I saw one guy get off an AA to utilt, but I'm not exactly sure how it was done.
Anyway, use the crouch cancelled jab to start some low % comboes, and at high %, they're a great way to set up for a stronger hit, because the jabs are so quick.
Doval
Smash Lord
There's no way to buffer shielding, or a shield grab during the AAA combo. You did the grab after the IASA frames.
Shield canceling doesn't exist. Test it in training mode at 1/4 speed. Do the jabs, hold down shield to find the first frame where you can act (for the second hit, it's when Ike is retracting his leg.) No matter what you do or how much you wish for it, you won't be able to act before that frame.
And Ike doesn't have any jab combos except more jabs. Up tilt, down tilt, down smash, whatever you're thinking, it's too slow. If an opponent ate it, he was being stupid and not shielding.
Oh whatever, you just haven't figured out how to do it yet. I've seen it done, as a matter of fact silven has been dsmash out of AA for the longest. Call it jab canceling or IASA frames or whatever, you can shield immediatly from AA and from that you can grab. You can also stop AA by crouching, and since melee that has been called a JAB CANCEL.
Bwett
Smash Ace
Yeah I agree about the jab cancelling, Doval. Personally I never do shield cancelling or crouch cancelling on it. I just time it. However, I don't believe that you are correct Doval about changing the combo into dsmash or something different. I recognize the fact that Ike's moves are slow, but using different combos along with AA + grab to punish shielding, these moves do tend to work because of the small lag with Ike's moves. Not to say that people can't avoid or shield every one of those moves, but then again people can avoid or shield all characters moves to some degree. That's why these moves work. Because of the mental traps that people tend to fall in from usually dealing with fast characters.
Doval
Smash Lord
"Haven't figured out it..." Haha. Good one.
I don't care who uses it. Just because people will eat it, that doesn't make it a combo. I could shine someone across FD with Fox. That doesn't mean I combo'd the shines, it means the other person was dumb and didn't shield.
You can shield and grab from AA, that doesn't mean it combos. In fact, it doesn't. The opponent has the time to sidestep or roll. AA to Down Smash is an even more laughable proposition. And crouching doesn't let you do act out of AA sooner, it just cancels the combo so that you get another jab when you hit A again, instead of the third hit.
EDIT:
I don't care who uses it. Just because people will eat it, that doesn't make it a combo. I could shine someone across FD with Fox. That doesn't mean I combo'd the shines, it means the other person was dumb and didn't shield.
You can shield and grab from AA, that doesn't mean it combos. In fact, it doesn't. The opponent has the time to sidestep or roll. AA to Down Smash is an even more laughable proposition. And crouching doesn't let you do act out of AA sooner, it just cancels the combo so that you get another jab when you hit A again, instead of the third hit.
EDIT:
Don't misunderstand - I'm not saying it's not a good idea to do something unexpected every once in a while. I'm just saying that they're not true combos. Pretending that you can do AA to Down Smash and that there's nothing the opponent can do in between is just naive. But if you only use it sparingly, they might eat it every once in a while, that's true.
Bwett
Smash Ace
Very well put. Yeah, it's not a true combo.
I'm not like other people who say that I did a 0 to death "combo" just because I kill someone without getting hit. I know what a freaking combo is. And I was just using Silven as an example because he was one of the first guys on the net trying stuff besides AAA. And answer this... how can someone roll or spot dodge when they haven't even touched the ground?! Hmmm, they can't! That's why AA to grab IS a combo. If the opponent doesn't DI towards your back it's got a 99.9% chance to work. I'm not saying that Ike can foward smash or anything like that out of it, but he can do some stuff, and yes by STUFF I mean some short combo strings. Play around with it, learn it, and quit naysaying.
Doval
Smash Lord
I already tried it, nitwit. Nothing works except another jab. The opponent touches the ground and puts up his shield before grab, d-smash, up tilt, or down tilt can come out. EVEN WITHOUT DI.
Arturito_Burrito
Smash Master
i think AA grab has just as much chance of success as AAA maybe more so if AAA is a combo then AA grab should be one too shouldnt it A?
Doval
Smash Lord
I don't see your reasoning on that. You can do the third hit in the AAA combo sooner than you can do other actions.
In any case, no. It's relatively likely to succeed because grabs aren't nearly as slow as Ike's other moves, and because grabs can't be shielded, but it's not guaranteed to work. It can be sidestepped.
In any case, no. It's relatively likely to succeed because grabs aren't nearly as slow as Ike's other moves, and because grabs can't be shielded, but it's not guaranteed to work. It can be sidestepped.
THANK YOU! There are some actual people who have played with Ike out there! I think Doval just wants to get beat in a Ditto., that's why he's arguing with me!!! :D
Doval
Smash Lord
1) He was honestly asking, not making an assertion.
2) Just because someone agrees with you, that doesn't make you right
Most people will agree that an air dodge slows you down when you get launched. That doesn't mean most people are right - in fact, they are wrong.
2) Just because someone agrees with you, that doesn't make you right
Most people will agree that an air dodge slows you down when you get launched. That doesn't mean most people are right - in fact, they are wrong.
Alright Doval, congradulations, you just hit 500, give yourself a hand. You love the sound of your own keyboard. That means you means you must be right, even though people seen it done, and people like me have experienced it fot thereselves, we're wrong. You have 500 posts, you're the expert, sorry I ever questioned you!
A question?!
Seems to be more of a rhetoric to me, but then again I don't have 500 posts, so I really don't know!
Doval
Smash Lord
There's clearly a question mark, and he's clearly unsure, or he wouldn't be asking.
P.S. I don't judge people by their post count, or even their attitude (even if I reply with an equally bad attitude in return.) However, you can't expect me not to laugh at absurd suggestions.
P.S. I don't judge people by their post count, or even their attitude (even if I reply with an equally bad attitude in return.) However, you can't expect me not to laugh at absurd suggestions.
Bwett
Smash Ace
Dude, you need to settle down. Doval is actually putting some thought into it and you are making it way too personal. Furthermore, I main Ike and I use AA to grab and to other moves quite a bit and I guarantee you the percentage of actually getting it is reliant on several things. The heaviness of the character, how far they fly because of this, and so on. If the "percentage" that you so happened to throw out is correct, I would use it alot more, but it doesn't work that often at all. It all depends on how your opponent reacts. Also, AA to forward smash will never, and I mean, never work as a combo. The startup time is entirely too long and allows for the person to do whatever they want. And just because you have experience of it working alot only means that you are dealing with someone that doesnt know how to deal with Ike's "combo." A combo is a string of attacks that are impossible or nearly impossible to get out of and the truth is that his combo can be easily gotten out of.
Wow, way to show some maturity with the next post.
Wow, I'm sorry dude, but up until now I wasn't exactly sure. Now, after your last post, I'm possitive. You are a d*m*a*s, hands down. Whatever you say, from here to eternity won't have much bearing in my mind. I mean it's cool if you don't know what a RHETORIC is (rhetorical question-a question that need not be answered because the answer, usually yes or no, is IMPLIED) I can understand that, but when you can't even figure out when someone is making fun of you. WOW! I'm not judging you by your count. I'm making fun of the fact that you have quite a few posts for a total NOOB. So thank you for ending this little charade on a dumb note, it makes me feel a lot better about myself.
Doval
Smash Lord
No u.
10ike_loves!
10ike_loves!
Bwett
Smash Ace
Also, just so you know, rhetoric and rhetorical question are two entirely different things. You are correct about rhetorical question but a rhetoric is a type of essay and has nothing to do with being implied within it.
I didn't even realize you were here until just now bwett, so first off let me apologize for not responding sooner. That being said...WOW. Are you serious. Let me just go through this thread real quick.
What the heck, why is everyone acting crazy about this. The post is about how important jab cancelling is, not whether or not it exists. It DOES exist, it's been around since freaking melee. Why is even being disputed. And did you even read what I said, I wasn't saying he could fsmash out of AA, that would be ********. I was saying he wasn't limited to just the last hit of his AAA, because he's not. Quit Naysaying and learn how to play with Ike or find someone else to play with!
That's what I said, and here's what you said.
So wait... you can do stuff out of AA or...?
Wait, weren't you just disputing Doval? Now your all over his ****?
What the heck, why is everyone acting crazy about this. The post is about how important jab cancelling is, not whether or not it exists. It DOES exist, it's been around since freaking melee. Why is even being disputed. And did you even read what I said, I wasn't saying he could fsmash out of AA, that would be ********. I was saying he wasn't limited to just the last hit of his AAA, because he's not. Quit Naysaying and learn how to play with Ike or find someone else to play with!
Wow, you're still talking. Alright I'll pay some attention to you. Rhetoric has about 8 different meaning in the dictionary, trust me I looked it up before I ever used the word! Why in the world do you think they call it a RHETORICal question. When you take sides with stupid, no one wins.
Doval
Smash Lord
1) Stop asserting that anyone that doesn't do Jab Canceling doesn't know how to play Ike.
2) He wasn't disagreeing with me, we just had a misunderstanding. I was saying jab canceling with the shield doesn't exist, and that he can't combo anything except the third hit in AAA. He thought I was saying that it's pointless to do AA->some other attack as a mix-up.
3) I never said jab canceling doesn't exist, I said the shield method is a hoax, and that jab canceling in general doesn't allow you to do AA->something else any faster than you normally would. In other words, it's only good for looping AA->AA.
4) The only one acting all crazy here is you. You may disagree with me, but I'm not the one ****ting bricks and throwing hissy fits.
2) He wasn't disagreeing with me, we just had a misunderstanding. I was saying jab canceling with the shield doesn't exist, and that he can't combo anything except the third hit in AAA. He thought I was saying that it's pointless to do AA->some other attack as a mix-up.
3) I never said jab canceling doesn't exist, I said the shield method is a hoax, and that jab canceling in general doesn't allow you to do AA->something else any faster than you normally would. In other words, it's only good for looping AA->AA.
4) The only one acting all crazy here is you. You may disagree with me, but I'm not the one ****ting bricks and throwing hissy fits.
Bwett
Smash Ace
Yeah, I'm done dealing with you.
Arturito_Burrito
Smash Master
hope im not starting up the fight again but just to clear things up my question was rhetorical ( copied and pasted that because i cant spell lol) anyways isnt it possible to block half way during the the AAA combo at least its happened to me but it might be because i tap A instead of holding. anyways when that does happen grabbing them would hit so thats why i think it has as much chance of hitting as the 3rd A but o well thats just my opinion and i could be/ probably am wrong.
VersatileBJN
Smash Ace
We're talking about jab in my topic. Posting there would be nice if yall can 
Arturito_Burrito
Smash Master
i would but i would be double posting why dont you explain the mechanics of the AA AA AA AAA thing because im not sure i did it right lolWe're talking about jab in my topic. Posting there would be nice if yall can
My fellow Americans, recently I made a statement. That statement could be summed up in one sentence. Ike can grab out of AA without any trouble. Well that was just untrue. It turns out I did have an improper relationship with that girl, and I'm truly sorry. LOL, yeah but on the real, it turns out I was tired and wrong at the same time ( never a good combo ) So I just wanted to clear the air and apologize for all the time I wasted. Anyway, you may not be able to do without fail, but if you mix it up a little bit, you can sometimes get off something besides the last hit of the combo. It's not that the shield cancels the AA, it's just that you buffer R or L and the shield comes out as soon as AA is done. Long story short, the only jab cancel Ike has is to crouch after AA and start a new Jab combo and that's not sure-fire either. Anything else you can just wait for AA to finish buffer the next command. Although it wouldn't nessisarily be a combo, you'll find that it will sometimes work, and seldom lead into more damge, so once again sorry for the confusion.
wargreymon16
Smash Cadet
you can dash grab