Ivysaur Tactical Discussion

[Eljin]

wack-a-troll

commence the beat dwn boys!

 

[Ishiey]

Okay, serious question.

Down smash. Does anyone use it, and what for? If I'm lazy, sometimes I charge it up by the ledge when my opponent is trying to recover, it's range is decent enough, I guess.

 

[typh]

you use downsmash when you accidentally smash instead of down-tilt

 

[Ishiey]

Ivysaurs tippered downsmash raps bowser.

This is what prompted my question, from the PT vs Bowser thread. Can't really tell what IRL was getting at, but the concept of Ivysaur's dsmash having some sort of use confused the **** out of me.

 

[Steeler]

i guess if you want to cover all of the opponents tech options in some situations, but you are better off predicting and fsmashing or something

 

[T-block]

if your opponent picks up a hammer you can d-smash under it and knock them off the edge and laugh as they swing the hammer to their death

that's the best use i've found for it so far

 

[CoonTail]

A ridiculously situational edgeguard against some characters thats it really from what Ive had the chance to do it with

 

[Miles.]

This is what prompted my question, from the PT vs Bowser thread. Can't really tell what IRL was getting at, but the concept of Ivysaur's dsmash having some sort of use confused the **** out of me.

i was being a NOOB.

A ridiculously situational edgeguard against some characters thats it really from what Ive had the chance to do it with

I have also spiked someone (not stage spike) straight up spikes someone that was hanging on the edge when i downsmashed them.

 

[Ishiey]

i was being a NOOB.

Ah, that explains it.

I guess it does sorta work when they're hanging on the ledge though, it reaches further below than one would imagine.

 

[CoonTail]

It also can hit through the ledge attack(something yet again very situational) So more or less if you ever manage to spike someone with this you basically gain right to move Ivy up in tiers due to how bad this move actually is. Its funny amusing and can be extremely situationally good if you somehow to get them set on the edge and use this. Not noting to do this just if you need a lil more smile in your match. Its honestly a straight **** smack from ivy lol

 

[IThinkAboutIvysaur]

You can Bair people back sometimes as they jump/climb up the ledge.

 

[Eljin]

i havent seen u guys use hyphen smashing enuff wit Ivy wassup wit dat itsa got priority when used right. nd im speaking in a sense like make the attack obvious nd catch sum1 tryin 2 rush u off guard. let it go "early" tho. fox trot in2 1 sumtime, it wrks

 

[Vermy]

At high levels of play, that doesn't work. The best ivysaurs usmash ever does for me is reading a pit/mk and heavily punishing before their glide attack hits. Granted, even then its not spammable.
Ivys hyphen smash doesn't slide far in comparison to say, Charizard's, Fox's or Captain Falcon's. And even then, their usmashes come out much quicker, and has higher range, making it a lot more useful. Of wifi on the other hand, lag makes PT broken. But in a real tournament at high levels of play, you won't land an ivysaur usmash often, if at all.

A better option is to drop down through a platform and uair. its safer, quicker, and most people don't expect it.

 

[Bestiarius]

Ljin, is it psbl 4 u 2 uz cmplt wurdz?
Just kidding, but Ivy's hyphen smash is not that great. Sure, it's the most powerful usmash in the game and it's going toward your opponent, but you better be dern sure it's gonna hit, 'cause if not, you're begging to be majorly punished.

 

[IThinkAboutIvysaur]

Ljin, is it psbl 4 u 2 uz cmplt wurdz?
Just kidding, but Ivy's hyphen smash is not that great. Sure, it's the most powerful usmash in the game and it's going toward your opponent, but you better be dern sure it's gonna hit, 'cause if not, you're begging to be majorly punished.

Actually the cooldown lag isn't that bad.... A missed Flamethrower will probably get you punished harder.

 

[Ryusuta]

Of wifi on the other hand, lag makes PT broken.

No. Not even close.

 

[T-block]

except that, unless you're an idiot, even after a "missed" flamethrower, the opponent should be too far away to do anything

 

[Miles.]

except that, unless you're an idiot, even after a "missed" flamethrower, the opponent should be too far away to do anything

well spaced flamethrower too good.

 

[Bestiarius]

Yeah, using flamethrower too close is asking to be *****, and too far just makes you look stupid. And yes, Ryusuta, PT is totally broken on wifi. With lag, you can Rock Smash with impunity. The whole earth trembles in the face of a PT on wifi.

 

[Ryusuta]

Yeah, using flamethrower too close is asking to be *****, and too far just makes you look stupid. And yes, Ryusuta, PT is totally broken on wifi. With lag, you can Rock Smash with impunity. The whole earth trembles in the face of a PT on wifi.

I play wifi more than... well, more than I probably should. Pokemon Trainer isn't even slightly broken on it. You can personally be bad at fighting PT online, but that doesn't make him broken.

 

[IThinkAboutIvysaur]

except that, unless you're an idiot, even after a "missed" flamethrower, the opponent should be too far away to do anything

My point still stands.

And what kind of connection do you guys have? You must have a really bad connection if you think that PT is even close to being the best character online.

 

[Miles.]

Troll.

That said, if you want to talk about online go to the brawl online boards.

Online play is irrelevant.

 

[Steeler]

A better option is to drop down through a platform and uair. its safer, quicker, and most people don't expect it.

just posting to say that i ****ing love doing this when both ivy and the opponent are on a platform

 

[Katakiri]

I play wifi more than... well, more than I probably should. Pokemon Trainer isn't even slightly broken on it. You can personally be bad at fighting PT online, but that doesn't make him broken.

I agree soooo much. The only things that are close to broken on wifi are Bullet Seed & Charizard's grab.
Outside of that, he gets ***** by lag. Especially Squirtle. :[


And on topic, is there any other use for Ivy's Dair than edge guarding? Nair seems better in all situations I can think of.

 

[Ryusuta]

And on topic, is there any other use for Ivy's Dair than edge guarding? Nair seems better in all situations I can think of.

It's got a large disjointed hitbox, so it's occasionally good to fight back against dangerous up air juggles when you're really high up. Unfortunately, it can be baited and countered, but it's still really helpful on occasion.

 

[IThinkAboutIvysaur]

His Dair is junk lol.

 

[Miles.]

Grounded Footstool Comboed Dair is ****.

 

[T-block]

d-air isn't junk =\

the hitbox makes it really nice for edgeguarding, and it can even hit through some stages. stagespikes allll day. the stall it causes can be pretty helpful too.... throws off jugglers, and it can trick your opponent into clearing off the ledge for you to tether

 

[Steeler]

it really is not useful at all for jugglers unless you hit because the lag after it is SOOOOOOOOOO BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD they'll be like "oh, they used usmash upside down. oh well time to **** ivysaur"

that being said, it has a really big hitbox so it's got a situational use when you are in the air

it's a good edgeguard for limited/predictable recoveries

 

[Vermy]

I use dair more than I'm proud of. Mostly from ledge return. If they're right on the edge, nair/bulletseed. If they're a "safe" distance, jump, airdodge, dair. And once you get used to it, the dair meteor gets pretty handy. If you miss the meteor it can send them 1 of 4 directions:
-diagonal up towards the stage (at a safe enough distance for you to get back onstage)
-diagonal up away from the stage
-diagonal down towards the stage (Stage Spike anyone?)
-diagonal down away from the stage.

Ultimately those 5, counting the meteor smash make for all decent options. Dair offstage at a smart distance is good.

 

[IThinkAboutIvysaur]

Dair is one of his worst moves if not his worst. It's really a situational move and easy to punish when missed.

And it doesn't stop juggles. Even if the momentum cancel throws your opponent off the lag lets them catch on anyway.

Personally I think that if you play some matches where you don't even Dair once you're not missing out on much potential.

,

 

[T-block]

it won't stop juggles outright, but if they're using their double jump to reach you, then the stall is sometimes enough to make them miss. the stall is more useful when you're off the edge anyways... wait until your up-b would stagespike and use d-air first instead.

 

[IThinkAboutIvysaur]

it won't stop juggles outright, but if they're using their double jump to reach you, then the stall is sometimes enough to make them miss. the stall is more useful when you're off the edge anyways... wait until your up-b would stagespike and use d-air first instead.

That might work but it's still situational and doesn't really change my opinion about his Dair much.

 

[Toby.]

Sometimes I wonder why people call something situational. Every move in the game is situational.

Dair has a situation where it is useful. The fact that we can't SH Dair all over the place shouldn't make it a bad move.

Every time somebody simply says a move is situational, a little part of me dies.

 

[Miles.]

it won't stop juggles outright, but if they're using their double jump to reach you, then the stall is sometimes enough to make them miss. the stall is more useful when you're off the edge anyways... wait until your up-b would stagespike and use d-air first instead.

YES

That might work but it's still situational and doesn't really change my opinion about his Dair much.

No god no, facepalms*

Sometimes I wonder why people call something situational. Every move in the game is situational.

Dair has a situation where it is useful. The fact that we can't SH Dair all over the place shouldn't make it a bad move.

Every time somebody simply says a move is situational, a little part of me dies.

YES YES YES <3

 

[Blitzmidfielder]

I use Dair to get out of 'too close' situations and gain space. C-c-c-c-c-combo breaking.

 

[Steeler]

full hop dair autocancels and hits all standing opponents except like olimar and squirtle and ****

it's yet another **** way to punish spotdodges

man i thought this was the ****ing charizard thread

i'll try to figure out how big ivy's dair hitbox really is, it's pretty **** good

 

[Magik0722]

dair: High start up, Really High cool down, average damage and knockback

 

[Toby.]

^giant hitbox

 

[T-block]

and a spike that's sexy as ****