its not "harder" to sweetspot the knee, its different

[theONEjanitor]

many people are saying its "harder" to sweet spot the knee, but thats only if you try to do it like melee. the sweetspot frames of the knee are earlier in the animation than they were in melee. if you simply time it earlier you can get the knee easily.

 

[Rang Flash]

The knee doesnt have starting lag anymore, and it used to in melee. that's the main thing that has been confusing players. It's just simple timing that's easy to get used to.

 

[AquaTech]

I would agree the timing is different, you have to use it earlier. However, me and my friends have noticed the time frame to get a "shock knee" is noticeably smaller still.

 

[RedMage8BT]

As someone who almost never played Captain Falcon in Melee, the knee seems easier in this game. Just my two cents.

 

[AquaTech]

I'm sure some would agree it might be easier to pull off due to it's quicker activation, but the overall sweet-spot time frame is indeed shorter.

 

[KeyKid19]

Yeah the sweetspot only lasts 10 frames now which is a significantly smaller window of opportunity. Personally I think the new version is harder to use consistently than the Melee version but it certainly is not impossible. Relying on it in Brawl is more risky but it still is a great asset. If the hitbox had a little bigger sweetspot window I really think Falcon would be significantly better because it's stupid that the only real use for the move lasts for 10 frames. There are other sweetspot moves in Brawl that are better simply because they are easier to sweetspot or have better gimp versions.

Just another reason why Falcon is probably the hardest character to be really good as in Brawl.

 

[Sneakz]

Maybe watchin this pro do it will make it easier.

nice try - link edited

 

[AquaTech]

KeyKid19,
I'm curious, if the sweet spot frame window in Brawl is 10 frames, what was it in Melee?

 

[KeyKid19]

I don't know but I heard from one of the guys on here who was doing a bunch of Action Replay tests on the game that the new knee sweetspot lasted 10 frames. I just tried doing some Google searches about the Melee Knee but found now hard frame data. If you really want to know I'd try PMing somebody like Chillin who was a true Melee Falcon pro. Somebody like that probably knows. I started delving into all of this frame data and priority and everything like that very late into Melee so I'm still pretty new to everything.

 

[TheManaLord]

no it's harder it's at a more awkward time and the window is smaller and hitbox smaller and brawl is less precise of a game in general

it's harder to land

 

[Reaver197]

The knee also has less priority now, making it harder to land on a live and kicking opponent. Especially now that you have to hit with the frontend of the animation, instead of a little bit after the activation, it really leaves you open to being hit before you can sweetspot it.

The issue is now finding more of an opportune time to hit your opponent with it while they can't hit first.

 

[Smot]

Today I pulled off my first sexy combol with falcon that ended in knee.
Nair, Uair, Fair, Dead. it was beautiful. Made me feel like I was playing melee. Im finally getting used to the brawl knee.
So then after that I played some melee and practiced my Scar Knees =D.

 

[KeyKid19]

Today I pulled off my first sexy combol with falcon that ended in knee.
Nair, Uair, Fair, Dead. it was beautiful. Made me feel like I was playing melee. Im finally getting used to the brawl knee.
So then after that I played some melee and practiced my Scar Knees =D.

Who were you playing against and what percent were they at when you started that combo? Also I've never seen you around here before so I'd like to hear what your Falcon impressions are. You don't have to get into the details but I would like to know if you like him in Brawl or not and if you plan on maining him or at least have him as a main or secondary option.

 

[TheManaLord]

he probably did it v cpu lol

 

[KeyKid19]

he probably did it v cpu lol

We can always hope otherwise. Maybe we're lucky and he had Ken over for a few hours. lol

 

[Mann]

The reason why the Fair is difficult to land is because of how close you have to be to set it off. Those who were used to Melee's hit stun notice this, but did not say much. With Falcon's knock back in his moves, most people are able to recover and keep pressing A to hit Falcon back, as most moves have more priority, and more range than Falcon does.

To set up to it and/or to decide when to use it, is the challenge.

 

[Smot]

No I didnt do it v a CPU lol... I was playing my roommate who has a pretty good understanding of the game and how to DI, he was playing Yoshi at the time. Right after I landed it he said "I hate you", dropped his controller and walked away.
Im not saying you couldn't DI out of this combo but it was very sexy and looked very clean. I wish a could remember the %, sorry but I could try recreating it.
My impression of falcon in brawl is... mhe. Hes still a sexy beast but since the game is less comboy in general falcon's crazy combo had to suffer with everyone else's. Knee it much less useful in but again you can still end some combo in it but they are rare and hard to set up. The one thing that I really don't like that I don't see many people complaining about it the lack of throws that can set up real combos. Even just 2 hit combos. Sadly I am not maining Falcon in brawl, but I still play with him from time to time. I like Toon Link and Marth more, seem much more combo able but when I get a better sense of brawl combos that might change.

 

[Scar]

Hes still a sexy beast but since the game is less comboy in general falcon's crazy combo had to suffer with everyone else's.

Basically. I mean the character is still awesome and manly and amazing, but you can't play him like a character that's to be feared. The statement "its not harder to sweetspot the knee" is an outright lie depending on your definition of the word "hard." You can barely connect with uair combos (a far reaching move) due to less hitstun, I can't see anyone hitting with an impressive attack > knee combo just because the opponent will be out of stun before Falcon can get close enough to follow up.

Anyways yeah I agree, it's important to realize that it seems much more impossible to knee people if you're in the Melee mindset. We have to understand how the knee works before we can use it correctly. But since knee doesn't combo into knee anymore I'm real sad.

 

[KeyKid19]

See I disagree Scar, I think he still is a fearsome character. People don't think he is right now but that's only because everyone is under the impression that he sucks (which he doesn't he's just more balanced with everyone else now) and they've never seen anybody who's good with him. I'm not that great but I am pretty good with him and I've had multiple people tell me "that Falcon is scary dude." Even the people I've played who are REALLY good at the game and significantly better than I am have said that they were on the edge of their seat the entire match because they didn't want to get punished.

The knee is harder by the way. Just thought I'd throw that in here as well. If the sweetspot had double the amount of frames it has now it would be beastly again but it's just too small of a window to get down consistently now. I still use it a lot (though admittedly probably a little too much) because when it does connect it's great and the gimp has good enough knockback so that you don't get punished unless you try to SH-Fair it. Then you're really punishable. But for aerial combat over the stage I still like it (edgeguarding with it is not the best idea anymore though).

Smot I'm glad that your combo was against a human who at least sounds like they know what they're doing. That gives me hope for that combo others like it that are sure to arise in the future. Of course if someone spends their entire match trying their hardest to not get comboed you'll never get them in anything decent, but that is true for all characters, not just Falcon. Some characters have nice ones that are unavoidable (like Toon Link's Utilt spam that is unescapable until you are at least at 50%) but generally most characters get their combos through opponent errors. Anyways good luck with Marth and Toon Link. I wish you the best and we'll have to play on Wi-Fi sometime if you have that (although since we're on opposite sides of the country the lag might make it unplayable).

 

[PhillipthaGoober]

I can hit with the knee pretty good.

 

[Smot]

We have to understand how the knee works before we can use it correctly. But since knee doesn't combo into knee anymore I'm real sad.

Ohhh Em Gee its scar.
I have come SOO close to a knee air jump knee at low % but its just doesn't seem possible, or realistic if it is.

Edit:
KeyKid19
3780-8715-9701
any time

 

[Ayato]

Hitstun makes knee comboing and combos into knee extremely difficult. It's more of a trump attack than a reliable finisher in this game. For finishes, Falcon typically must depend on bairs and uairs (edgeguarded, it doesn't really clear enemies off the stage but it's a good edgeguard).

The knee is much more difficult to hit in this game. The timing's different, and once you get it down it's easy to land on a standing target. Sure. You won't be able to get it constantly in a game though. That's a fact.

Also, the knee has to be executed later in most cases because of the sweetspot positioning, shorthop height, and opening time. This gives the target even more time to recover from hitstun. You have to be right up in there face to get it, pretty much, so that makes comboing into it a nightmare. I've managed to get it to work into combos against players who have mid-priority moves that utiilize the full body to attack though (Pikachu, Diddy, Kirby, but not Puff, puff is ridiculous).

 

[Falcon PWNCH!]

does anyone else notice that falcon seems to slow down mid jump. imo i think this is the main reason the knee is more difficult to land perfectly.