Isaac (Golden Sun) in SSBB thread

[Magically Enhanced Hobo]

Ninja Kiyo hit the nail on the head, and that's an idea that I had floating around my head for a few days now.

Think about it. Since Golden Sun is Nintendo owned and significant(at least significant enough to get a sticker), don't you think Sakurai would have shown us anything at all Golden Sun related? An Assist Trophy, Music, etc.?

And he hasn't. Why? Because Music or an AT would reveal the Golden Sun Icon(which quite conveniently fills the hole missing in the icon theory, I might add) which Sakurai doesn't want to do until he's revealed Golden Sun's representative, Isaac.

So you see, one of two things are happening here.

1. Golden Sun is so insignificant that it warrants absolutely no mention in this game. I find this highly unlikely, seeing as how Golden Sun was a contender in both the Music and character polls, a composer from Golden Sun is working on the game, the game is Nintendo owned, not very obscure, and well received. I think this warrants a sticker, if nothing else.

2. Sakurai is hiding anything having to do with Golden Sun until he reveals Isaac, much as he did with Pikmin(Yeah, there was the Bulborb, but that didn't jeopardize the series icon, which is what Kiyo was referring to).

The second scenario is much more likely, and I have trouble believing that 35 character roster. Not just because Isaac isn't in it, but because
-Geno
- Krystal
- Ridley
- Mega Man
- Any other Third Party for that matter
- no new FE rep(besides Ike, but I really think it needed a third. More than Pokemon needed Lucario)
- no new Metroid rep(ZSS does not count)
- no new Mario rep whatsoever(and this should have been the biggest giveaway)
- Mario actually -loses- characters, which I find to be highly unlikely
- Claus, but I guess Mother doesn't -need- anyone else.
- As a matter of fact, Sakurai ignored the poll altogether after Diddy, Dedede, and Ike

And out of all these characters, who do these leakers claim Sakurai gives us? R.O.B. Of course, R.O.B. won't happen, beause he's been shown in SSE trailers months ago, and Sakurai would never show a playable character that far ahead. He's got mindgames, but not those kinds of mindgames. Also, the only NEW unlockable characters are Wolf, R.O.B., Lucario, and WW Link(technically). Seriously? out of 14 allegedly unlockable characters, 3-4 of them are new, and the rest are starters? Sorry, don't think so.

Whew, what a rant. I'm not sure I'm in denial, but I definitely refuse to believe that Isaac is not in Brawl until I see some indisputable evidence from an official source. I'm not trusting some wackos on 2chan, kthx. Anyways, sorry to clutter up the thread, but I had to get that out, and since this is my favorite thread, this was the only place.

Finally, good to see you back Cos. I'm gonna have to go with Ruby and hold out for Venus Lighthouse as the GS stage. Anything else is icing on the cake, but I just want that VL theme guaranteed.

 

[Your Hero]

@Cos: Change your OP :] (or did you already?..)

@MEH (lol, meh ): I completely agree. Nice rant :]

 

[Rhubarbo]

Ninja Kiyo hit the nail on the head, and that's an idea that I had floating around my head for a few days now.

Think about it. Since Golden Sun is Nintendo owned and significant(at least significant enough to get a sticker), don't you think Sakurai would have shown us anything at all Golden Sun related? An Assist Trophy, Music, etc.?

And he hasn't. Why? Because Music or an AT would reveal the Golden Sun Icon(which quite conveniently fills the hole missing in the icon theory, I might add) which Sakurai doesn't want to do until he's revealed Golden Sun's representative, Isaac.

So you see, one of two things are happening here.

1. Golden Sun is so insignificant that it warrants absolutely no mention in this game. I find this highly unlikely, seeing as how Golden Sun was a contender in both the Music and character polls, a composer from Golden Sun is working on the game, the game is Nintendo owned, not very obscure, and well received. I think this warrants a sticker, if nothing else.

2. Sakurai is hiding anything having to do with Golden Sun until he reveals Isaac, much as he did with Pikmin(Yeah, there was the Bulborb, but that didn't jeopardize the series icon, which is what Kiyo was referring to).

The second scenario is much more likely, and I have trouble believing that 35 character roster. Not just because Isaac isn't in it, but because
-Geno
- Krystal
- Ridley
- Mega Man
- Any other Third Party for that matter
- no new FE rep(besides Ike, but I really think it needed a third. More than Pokemon needed Lucario)
- no new Metroid rep(ZSS does not count)
- no new Mario rep whatsoever(and this should have been the biggest giveaway)
- Mario actually -loses- characters, which I find to be highly unlikely
- Claus, but I guess Mother doesn't -need- anyone else.
- As a matter of fact, Sakurai ignored the poll altogether after Diddy, Dedede, and Ike

And out of all these characters, who do these leakers claim Sakurai gives us? R.O.B. Of course, R.O.B. won't happen, beause he's been shown in SSE trailers months ago, and Sakurai would never show a playable character that far ahead. He's got mindgames, but not those kinds of mindgames. Also, the only NEW unlockable characters are Wolf, R.O.B., Lucario, and WW Link(technically). Seriously? out of 14 allegedly unlockable characters, 3-4 of them are new, and the rest are starters? Sorry, don't think so.

Whew, what a rant. I'm not sure I'm in denial, but I definitely refuse to believe that Isaac is not in Brawl until I see some indisputable evidence from an official source. I'm not trusting some wackos on 2chan, kthx. Anyways, sorry to clutter up the thread, but I had to get that out, and since this is my favorite thread, this was the only place.

Finally, good to see you back Cos. I'm gonna have to go with Ruby and hold out for Venus Lighthouse as the GS stage. Anything else is icing on the cake, but I just want that VL theme guaranteed.

The icon theory is meaningless! It only verifies that there will be at least another new series in Brawl. The Pikmin icon added another one, we might see Golden Sun as #23, 24, 25 e.c.t.

 

[Magically Enhanced Hobo]

I was just saying there's at least 1 missing icon that will be in -for sure- besides G&W, and Golden Sun would fit in as well as anything else.

If theres 23+, that only raises our chances, not lowers them.

 

[Rubydragon]

Yep, those reasons pretty much justify what I think about the 35 character roaster as well. However, we have been shown a Krystal Sticker...

That character list may end up being true, but it would defy everything Sakurai has said and done, and what we've expected. The number isn't wrong - the characters are.

Sakurai stated that he was making this game as if it were the last Smash Bros. game; is THAT how you end a series? Start it out beautifully and watch it go downhill? If that character list does happen to be true, I hope that very thing happens to Brawl's sales (Even though I'll still buy it).

Though that theory you came up with doesn't necessarily work. What about Custom Robo? What about Takamaru or Sukapon? It's honestly a little too early to believe something like that.

And by the way, it could also just mean that the only two things Golden Sun will get from Brawl will be a music and an assist trophy. If Isaac was indeed an assist trophy (God forbid), I doubt Sakurai would add a bunch of stickers from a series who doesn't even warrant its own icon.

I'm just trying to be as pessimistic as possible here.

 

[Magically Enhanced Hobo]

Well, I was just trying to be optimistic, since there's enough pessimism going around, as far as I'm concerned.

Besides, my theory was just a possibility. I know it works for all those other series, but my point was that it works for Golden Sun. I don't care about Takamaru or Custom Robo too much. Besides, Golden Sun is probably more deserving than any of those, and definitely more deserving than a friggin R.O.B., but that's not up to me.

Anyways, like I said, just trying to think a little positively.

 

[Bassoonist]

Ninja Kiyo hit the nail on the head, and that's an idea that I had floating around my head for a few days now.

Think about it. Since Golden Sun is Nintendo owned and significant(at least significant enough to get a sticker), don't you think Sakurai would have shown us anything at all Golden Sun related? An Assist Trophy, Music, etc.?

And he hasn't. Why? Because Music or an AT would reveal the Golden Sun Icon(which quite conveniently fills the hole missing in the icon theory, I might add) which Sakurai doesn't want to do until he's revealed Golden Sun's representative, Isaac.

So you see, one of two things are happening here.

1. Golden Sun is so insignificant that it warrants absolutely no mention in this game. I find this highly unlikely, seeing as how Golden Sun was a contender in both the Music and character polls, a composer from Golden Sun is working on the game, the game is Nintendo owned, not very obscure, and well received. I think this warrants a sticker, if nothing else.

2. Sakurai is hiding anything having to do with Golden Sun until he reveals Isaac, much as he did with Pikmin(Yeah, there was the Bulborb, but that didn't jeopardize the series icon, which is what Kiyo was referring to).

The second scenario is much more likely, and I have trouble believing that 35 character roster. Not just because Isaac isn't in it, but because
-Geno
- Krystal
- Ridley
- Mega Man
- Any other Third Party for that matter
- no new FE rep(besides Ike, but I really think it needed a third. More than Pokemon needed Lucario)
- no new Metroid rep(ZSS does not count)
- no new Mario rep whatsoever(and this should have been the biggest giveaway)
- Mario actually -loses- characters, which I find to be highly unlikely
- Claus, but I guess Mother doesn't -need- anyone else.
- As a matter of fact, Sakurai ignored the poll altogether after Diddy, Dedede, and Ike

And out of all these characters, who do these leakers claim Sakurai gives us? R.O.B. Of course, R.O.B. won't happen, beause he's been shown in SSE trailers months ago, and Sakurai would never show a playable character that far ahead. He's got mindgames, but not those kinds of mindgames. Also, the only NEW unlockable characters are Wolf, R.O.B., Lucario, and WW Link(technically). Seriously? out of 14 allegedly unlockable characters, 3-4 of them are new, and the rest are starters? Sorry, don't think so.

Whew, what a rant. I'm not sure I'm in denial, but I definitely refuse to believe that Isaac is not in Brawl until I see some indisputable evidence from an official source. I'm not trusting some wackos on 2chan, kthx. Anyways, sorry to clutter up the thread, but I had to get that out, and since this is my favorite thread, this was the only place.

Finally, good to see you back Cos. I'm gonna have to go with Ruby and hold out for Venus Lighthouse as the GS stage. Anything else is icing on the cake, but I just want that VL theme guaranteed.

I 100% agree.. although there are other places to discuss this terrible roster. Don't worry about it being true, though.

Isaac for Brawl. I found my Golden Sun cartridge, today. It's pretty exciting. *listens to Venus Lighthouse's epic music*

 

[Matt Silver]

MEH has some decent awesome points. I'm still convinced that 35 roster is fake (So why talk about it...), and I couldn't care less what Icon Theory says. Isaac for Brawl!

 

[Rubydragon]

By the way, has anyone seen this yet?

http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=928518&topic=40937731

I don't know if that looks like Mt. Aleph, but maybe some of you guys can shed some light on this subject?

 

[Arteen]

Though that theory you came up with doesn't necessarily work. What about Custom Robo? What about Takamaru or Sukapon? It's honestly a little too early to believe something like that.

Soon it will be a little too late to believe something like that!

Anyways, I don't expect Sukapon or Takamaru to be playable. Sakurai (supposedly) said he didn't want to have too many Japan-only characters in SSB, since the game has an international audience. Case in point: Lucas and Ness. At least one of them would get in, of course (it's not like Mother would be unrepresented). Sakurai has always wanted Lucas in, and as far as I'm concerned, Lucas deserves a spot. But Sakurai can't just ignore the international audience, so he kept Ness in the game too. He included a Japan-only character without alienating the international audience.

As for Sukapon and Takamaru, their series were both entirely Japan-only. Unless we get Mike Jones from StarTropics, the international audience would be alienated. Besides, the two games are not nearly as important as, for example, the formerly Japan-only series Fire Emblem. If Sakurai wanted to choose another retro character to include, it would be better for the character to come from an international series at least. For example, Pit from Kid Icarus.

Also, could someone enlighten me as to why Sukapon has a chance? From what I recall, it's because he's from Nintendo's first fighting game. If that's it, then so what? There's nothing special about that. It's simply a piece of trivia. Fighting games have never been much of a focus for Nintendo, so the first fighting character Nintendo made is simply trivial. If this was a Capcom game, then certainly, their first fighting character would be important, since fighting games are one of their greatest assets. But this is Nintendo we're talking about, so Sukapon is nothing more than a trivial character.

As for Custom Robo, I think that series does have a chance. On the other hand, I don't think that the series is al that notable outside of Japan, wheras Golden Sun is much more popular and notable internationally.

Here's my suggestion for an Isaac AT: Everyone loses, because if Isaac is an Assist Trophy, everyone loses. I think it's fitting.

 

[Matt Silver]

By the way, has anyone seen this yet?

http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=928518&topic=40937731

I don't know if that looks like Mt. Aleph, but maybe some of you guys can shed some light on this subject?

Made my day.

 

[SmashBro99]

I will literally cry if they make him an assist trophy....but if they don't make him playable that will be where he ends up...=\

 

[Matt Silver]

5 days... the negativity ends so soon...

 

[AlbelNox]

Don't know what do you all guys think, but I'm pretty confident about him getting in. Because, you know, there has been almost no clue about anything regarding the newcomers we're going to get, just like there has been no clue of anything regarding Golden Sun.

I mean, we have already seen Advance Wars' and Sin and Punishment's trophies, which pretty much deconfirms them (at least, SaP is completely deconfirmed), but not a clue about GS thus far. Which obviously means they're saving everything about it until the very end.

 

[Rubydragon]

Remember though, that can also mean that Golden Sun will only get a music or an assist trophy.

 

[Magically Enhanced Hobo]

Remember though, that can also mean that Golden Sun will only get a music or an assist trophy.

Yeah, but still, you'd figure we'd have seen it by now in one of the demos, or through the Dojo, right? I mean, we've deconfirmed a lot of possible characters that way. Deoxys, Jill from Drill Dozer, Lyndis, etc.

I don't know. Ruby, you're being totally logical here, so I can't actually argue with you, I'm just going to be totally disappointed if Isaac isn't in Brawl, that's all.

 

[Rubydragon]

Well, the Mt. Aleph thing raises his chances somewhat.

Jill and Lyn weren't really popular in the first place though - They both had cult followings (sound familiar? ), but not enough popularity to warrant a playable character spot.

The thing with Deoxys is that Sakurai kept fully deconfirming popular choices of new playable pokemon... Deoxys, Munchlax, Gardevoir, etc. It got to the point where even Dakurai was deconfirmed as a pokeball (I think), and Lucario was the only pokemon that was safe. It was safe to assume, then, that if Sakurai would add one more pokemon character, it would be Lucario, and look what happened, he is now in (yay!).

Isaac, on the other hand, has seen very little competitors go away. And we won't see many - because Sakurai doesn't want to deconfirm an entire series unless it is needed, or not popular enough (Sin and Punishment, SimCity, etc.)

There are only so many new series Sakurai can add in one game, I mean, who wants to see 10 icons with only one character and a stage, item, trophy, and a sticker or two? I certainly don't.

In terms of 'competition', Isaac still has a long way to go; he still has to beat Ray, Sukapon, Takamaru, and a few others.

Hell, but who knows? Maybe Ray, Andy, and Isaac are all in this game; pleasing both new fans and old.

 

[Rhubarbo]

That could very well be Mt.Aleph...or it could be a generic mountain...ir could be many things. Assuming it is Mt.Aleph, maybe you just have a boss fight with the Wise One?

 

[Matt Silver]

The thing with Lyn is that she wasn't really that main character apart from the first part of the game. Eliwood and Hector had a bigger role than she did. Jill from Drill Dozer? Meh.
Sakurai, great guy that he is, won't let us down (Hopefully).

 

[Rubydragon]

That would be nice.

 

[Arteen]

That could very well be Mt.Aleph...or it could be a generic mountain...ir could be many things. Assuming it is Mt.Aleph, maybe you just have a boss fight with the Wise One?

Or, what if the Wise One tricks Isaac into helping the villains (the Wise One's a jerk like that), forcing you to fight Isaac instead? Maybe Isaac joins the good guys after that, or he escapes, but later in the game he is forced into a situation whee he realizes that he's made a mistake, and joins the good guys?

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

Jill never really had any cult following. The game had its own little fanbase, but not really the character.

 

[Rubydragon]

Oops, sorry about that. I just assumed Jill was sort of important.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

I was surprised to see Jill as an AT in Brawl - Drill Dozer's an excellent game, but I never would have imagined that she would make it into an AT role.

 

[Oblivion129]

Considering it's Mt.Aleph, this practically confirms that Isaac ATLEAST has a role in SSE.

 

[Your Hero]

??

EDIT: aha nevermind, It's been a while since I played my golden sun games [/embarrased]


The thing I called a lighthouse is supposed to be mount Aleph :]

 

[Bassoonist]

I really don't think that proves anything. I'd love for it to... but we're getting a little ahead of ourselves here.

 

[Rubydragon]

Sakurai probably showed some sort of interest in her.

Well Bassoonist, it doesn't lower his chances; even if that isn't Mt. Aleph. It honestly doesn't matter, we'll know in a few days what the heck it is.

 

[Ninja Kiyo]

In terms of 'competition', Isaac still has a long way to go; he still has to beat Ray, Sukapon, Takamaru, and a few others.

Sukapon? Takamaru? You highly underestimate Isaac's chances. He's easily more popular than the Japan-only characters, due to being released outside of Japan. Heck, the old "My Nintendo" page featured Jenna on the sidebar. I don't see Takamaru or even Ray getting that kind of representation.

What does Sukapon have going for him? Being in a fighting game? WTF character? That's pretty much it. I remember hearing on SMYM that Sakurai actually talked about Takamaru and asked a rhetorical question, "What are Takamaru's chances of getting a new game?" or something along those lines. Yeah, his chances aren't that great.

And if I remember correctly, Custom Robos are only a few inches high to a foot. Now, with Olimar, his size might not matter. But Robos interact with humans and are clearly shown to be "action figure-like," whereas Olimar was in a proportionally large world. Ray would be an excellent Assist Trophy in my opinion, where he'd fly around and shoot people.

We also know that there will be at least one more series in Brawl due to the Icon Theory. What other competitors are there for Golden Sun? The series is clearly more than just a "cult" game. It is iconic and holds a lot of nostalgia value for many people.

The Mountain is clearly Mt. Aleph. Check out the rock formations on the sides, and the clouds. I won't say Isaac is confirmed, I'd just say he's highly likely at this point.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

Sukapon is one of Nintendo's earliest traditional fighting game stars.

Takamaru is the star of one of Sakurai's favorite games.

Animal Crosser already has significant representation.

 

[Rubydragon]

I don't underestimate Isaac's chances, but Sakurai probably does.

 

[Arteen]

Sukapon is one of Nintendo's earliest traditional fighting game stars.

Like I said before, I don't think that matters. Nintendo isn't a company that places a large focus on fighting games, so Sukapon isn't an important character: just the subject of a neat piece of trivia. Besides, it's not like Joy Mech Fight is a precursor to the SSB games, since JMF was a traditional fighting game, whereas SSB is far from it.

Takamaru is the star of one of Sakurai's favorite games.

I've never heard that before. Source?

 

[Ninja Kiyo]

Sukapon is one of Nintendo's earliest traditional fighting game stars.

Takamaru is the star of one of Sakurai's favorite games.

Animal Crosser already has significant representation.

Sukapon was in 1 traditional fighting game for the NES only in Japan. He's very obscure. Could be "WTF" character. Otherwise, we already have enough retro characters, IMO.

Need source for your Takamaru claim. Also, what powers does he have besides "sword swiping"? I'm afraid he is just a generic swordsman, whereas Link, Ike, and even Isaac have different fighting styles combined with their swordsmanship.

Just because a series has an icon, doesn't mean it will get a playable character. Do you think DS logo series will have a playable character? I feel that the Animal Crossing series is best suited to be represented through Stages and Items. Animal Crosser is just a generic avatar for the player, a kind of "Mii precursor" if you will.

The point of Smash Bros. is to fight using memorable Nintendo characters, and I don't believe a generic human fits that bill. That's why Sakurai scrapped the idea of having Miis fight (read: Iwata Asks). Not to mention ACer is also in the background of Smashville, and it'd be awkward having one in the foreground, fighting, will others watch.

 

[firebird34]

I support issac even though i've never played his games just like pit he sounds like a cool character and i may even buy the game now.

 

[Rubydragon]

Takamaru shoots Ninja Stats, fireballs, lightning bolts, and turns invisible, among other things.

 

[RandomGuy42]

Why are people searching for in-game locations in Subspace? Do we see Hyrule Castle? Do we see Green Greens? Do we see Brinstar (Heh, different planet).

The Subspace world is completely separate to any other universes from what we've seen so far. So I really don't see these speculations as meaning anything.

On the plus side, I just noticed you can see the lake where you fight Rayquaza.

 

[Matt Silver]

Why are people searching for in-game locations in Subspace? Do we see Hyrule Castle? Do we see Green Greens? Do we see Brinstar (Heh, different planet).

The Subspace world is completely separate to any other universes from what we've seen so far. So I really don't see these speculations as meaning anything.

On the plus side, I just noticed you can see the lake where you fight Rayquaza.

I'd like to think everything from every game appears in some form. Maybe there'll be a thorny jungle from DK, Mt Aleph from Golden Sun, Mushroom Kingdoom, Star Road, Brinstar, Skyworld, Icicle Mountain, Luigi's Mansion, Dreamland, some random Pokemon city - anything is possible, who knows?

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

1. Sukapon is in his element if he's in Brawl, and he's an icon for being kind of like the precursor to Brawl.

2. In an interview, he was discussing Nazo no Murasame-jo, and commented that it was one of his favorite games, and that the Famicom Mini version of it, if it succeeds, Takamaru has an increased chance of getting in.

3. Eh? Takamaru's Ninja sword style is generic? And as for a moveset...

B: Fire (throws a flaming piece of paper or whatever it was forward; fast fire)
Smash B: Invisibility (turns invisible and slashes)
Up B: Throwing Knife (Throws a knife into the air; can be caught by Takamaru and reused; good damage)
Down B: Lightning bolt (stabs forward, and produces a quick lightning bolt)
Final Smash: Shuriken Wave (Sends out a wave of super sharp Shurikens in all directions)

4. AC is too popular to not have a character rep. The series has a movie. How many Nintendo franchises have a major motion picture that held a spot in the top ten for many, many months? One.

5. Everyone knows the Animal Crosser, and would know him/her better if they used the main character from the film.

 

[Arteen]

Why are people searching for in-game locations in Subspace? Do we see Hyrule Castle? Do we see Green Greens? Do we see Brinstar (Heh, different planet).

The Subspace world is completely separate to any other universes from what we've seen so far. So I really don't see these speculations as meaning anything.

What about Skyworld? That is both Pit's stage and a location in SSE.

 

[Your Hero]

Fire -> mario's fireball
Invisibility -> metaknight's counter
Throwing knife -> unique
lightning bolt -> Pikahu's thunder or thunder jolt (I didn't understand if it comes from above or from him)

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