Isaac (Golden Sun) in SSBB thread

[Arteen]

I wouldn't mind Felix, but he would definitely be a clone, and I would prefer two original movesets for the Golden Sun reps. I'd also prefer Alex over Saturos, since Alex was the real antagonist, he has some of the power of the golden sun, and he was in both games. Besides, a water/ice-based moveset would be sweet.

 

[raul]

The more I learn about Isaac, the more I see no reason why he cant be in brawl. He uses magic and a sword? How unique is that? He would be on the most awesome new characters along with Pit, Meta Knight, Sonic and Lucas. Isaac and Golden Sun need representation badly.

 

[Aqua Rock X]

Let's change up topics. If Isaac got in, and we were given another spot for a Golden Sun PC (Unlikely, but let's dream), who would it be fighting alongside Isaac?

My vote would go to Alex or Felix. But Felix would be kinda clonelike Roy to Marth thing, while Alex would be quite a good original character (evil too).

I'd go with Jenna, just because it would increase the likelyhood of having her awesome theme in Brawl.

You know what I've found weird? The entire series is normally hidden before the icon is revealed.

No AC content was known before Smashville, after that, we see regular stickers and trophies. No Pikmin content was known before Olimar, barring a single Bulborb trophy.

Which franchises that should've been seen by now haven't been?

obviously, this only accounts for new franchises. The only two I can think of off the top of my head are Custom Robo and Golden Sun.

And if Custom Robo was somehow eliminated from the competetion, Isaac's in the BAG! Are there really any other non-third party series still in the running. Maybe Advance Wars (have we even seen their symbol?) or some obscure WTF Japan only character. On second thought, maybe Isaac does still have some competetion left.

 

[Pluvius]

I don't want Isaac in because claymation would look terrible in Brawl.

 

[vastler]

I don't want Isaac in because claymation would look terrible in Brawl.

they could just re-design him to look more suited in brawl

 

[Arteen]

I don't want Isaac in because claymation would look terrible in Brawl.

I seriously hope you're kidding. Golden Sun has absolutely nothing to do with claymation.

 

[raul]

I seriously hope you're kidding. Golden Sun has absolutely nothing to do with claymation.

Yeah I dont get it either, unless its a joke then its funny.

 

[robo_peng]

First of all I would like to say one thing…”Isaac for Brawl!”

I’ve been following this thread for a long time now and I figure im finally ready to make my first post. And why not make it a big one? I created a move set that incorporates a lot of the ideas that have been previously mentioned in other movesets on the thread, but I can’t remember where in particular they came from so feel free to claim credit for what you said first. I really wanted to post this because I think it would be a unique mechanic that would incorporate most of the Golden Sun systems and one that draws distinction between the different attacks in the game by separating them into different parts of Isaac’s move set.

Neutral A: downward slash
2nd Tap: Upward Slash
3rd Tap: Downward slash
*no repeating Neutral A

ftilt: horizontal stab
utilt: vertical stab
dtilt: sweeps weapon across the ground

fsmash: Ragnarok- A sword composed of psyenergy appears above his head and strikes in front of him. Quick to start and lots of lag at the end
usmash: Punji- Bamboo sprouts beneath him and strikes just above his head
dsmash: Quake- a short-range shockwave moves to either side of him

nair: Gaia- A circle of 3 rocks spins around him once
fair: Force- A mid-range burst of psyenergy move horizontally away from him
uair: Briar- A Briar vine sprouts above him and strikes up
dair: Spire- A spire appears below him and strikes opponents as he falls
backair: Force- A mid-range burst of psyenergy move horizontally behind from him

nspecial: Flower- Isaac and those in close proximity to him are healed (20-25% maybe)
fspecial: Flint- Isaac dashes forward and strikes with the power of a Djinn
uspecial: Echo- Jumps diagonally up while striking, then strikes again as he reaches the max of his jump
dspecial: Set- All Djinn return from “standby” (explained below)

His special moves all incorporate Venus Djinn, using them would call them out and then they would go into “standby” and hover around his as either globes of yellow light (or in their Djinn form). Each move would be assigned one Djinn, so after executing a particular attack he would not be able to execute that attack again until the Djinn has recovered. This allows for his specials to be as they are (ie no spamming heals) When he has Djinn in “standby” his stats would decrease, so the more Djinn in “standby” the more his stats suffer. But the benefit to having Djinn in “standby” is really applicable to his Final Smash.
Final Smash: Summon- This is based on how many Djinn are in “standby”. The more there are, the stronger the summon and wider range the wider range it has.
1. Venus
2. Ramses
3. Cybele
4. Judgment
All Djinn would recover from “standby” after a summon is used

What do you think?

 

[LeuMasT]

Yeah I dont get it either, unless its a joke then its funny.

Maybe its supposed to be an extended metaphor referring to his earth element. Or I'm just giving him too much credit.

 

[raul]

Maybe its supposed to be an extended metaphor referring to his earth element. Or I'm just giving him too much credit.

I'll go with the latter of too much credit.

 

[Arteen]

Maybe its supposed to be an extended metaphor referring to his earth element. Or I'm just giving him too much credit.

"Clay: a natural earthy material that is plastic when wet, consisting essentially of hydrated silicates of aluminum: used for making bricks, pottery, etc." - dictionary.com
If this is an extended metaphor, he made one critical mistake; earth and water are required for clay. Isaac is an earth adept; he has no natural ability to control water. For "claymation" to be in Brawl, Isaac and a water adept would be needed for the metaphor to work! Mia/Alex/Piers for Brawl?

Or maybe I'm taking the metaphor too far?

 

[zagman505]

definitely second golden sun rep should be alex.

Ness used moves that were exclusive to Paula
Case closed

just because ness did doesn't mean isaac needs to. i got the impression (which may be wrong) that ness focused more in defensive/supportive moves in earthbound, so they needed to use attacks from other party members in order to fill his smash moveset with offensive moves. since isaac has so much potential for his moveset, not only in pure venus elemental attacks but just the immense range of psynergy that he can potentially learn from the different possible classes. so since he has so many different potential attacks, i don't think it would make sense to use psynergy that he can't possibly learn.

robo peng, i like the idea you have with having the special moves unleash djinn and have them on standby for the FS, but there's one fundamental problem. there are only 4 special moves (neutral, up, side and down), and you dedicated one of them to setting all the djinn. so that means that you only have access to 3 djinn, which would make it impossible to use judgment. unless he starts off basically with one on standby (so will always at least use venus for FS) but using the 3 special moves will allow him to access the other 3 summons?

i wanna make my own moveset =D comments are greatly appreciated. i used a ton of psynergy though >_<



Regular attacks:
A combo: Slash, slash, Gale (Calls up a small whirlwind in front of him to continue cutting at the enemy. Gale remains in effect as long as the combo keeps going, does continuous minor damage)

Dash A: Flint (basically a leap slash of sorts)

Tilt >A: Slash

Smash >A: Force

Tilt ^A: Sword sweep (kind of like Link's)

Smash ^A: Punji (Summons bamboo sticks out of the ground immediately around him, which shoot up and attack enemies above him. Has very little horizontal range)

Tilt vA: Low slash

Smash vA: Growth (Summons vines out of the ground around him, which attack the enemies around him. Has considerable horizontal range, but becomes somewhat ineffective at the limits of its range. Enemies are sent flying, but also have a chance of being entangled and left unable to move for a short time)

Neutral Air: Froth (Isaac calls forth bubbles of water which circle around him briefly, damaging those in the immediate vicinity)

Forward Air: Plume Edge (Isaac slashes his sword in mid-air, and casts Plume Edge in that direction. Plume Edge travels a short distance before disappearing, and enemies that are hit by the initial sword slash are carried along with the Plume Edge before being sent flying)

Back Air: Demon Night (Isaac stretches his arm behind him and summons spirits to attack behind him)

^Air: Fire Bomb (Isaac stretches his arm up and causes an explosion around his hand, similar to Samus' ^Air)

vAir: Skull Splitter (Kind of a cross between Link's vAir and Ike's Aether, Isaac falls and slashes slightly in front and below him, causing a small explosion when he hits the ground and possibly stunning an enemy if hit directly)

Special Moves:
Neutral B: Gaia (Can be charged, charging increases horizontal range and power. Charge can be saved)

>B: Odyssey (Isaac leaps forward, stabbing enemies with a giant Psynergy sword. Can be used as a secondary horizontal recovery move)

^B: Planetary (Isaac leaps upward and comes down at an angle. Similar with Kirby and Ike's ^B. Can recover great vertical distances, but is not as useful for horizontal recovery.

vB: Spire (Isaac summons spires to drop down on enemies around him. At first only a few spires fall in the area immediately around Isaac, but can be 'charged' like Gaia. The longer the attack is held, the larger the range gets. Charge cannot be saved, and Isaac cannot move while using the attack)

FS: Judgment

Isaac summons Judgment, which appears either above the battlefield or in the distance behind it. It fires its cannon, which creates a shockwave when it hits the battlefield. The shockwave starts at the center of the battlefield and expands, dragging enemies along for continuous damage. So the closer the enemy is to the center of the shockwave, the more damage taken. Shockwave will have a range about that of the legendary Pokemon, and when it reaches its limit, enemies caught in it are held there for a second (taking a bit more damage) before being sent flying in the direction the shockwave had dragged them. Much more dangerous on a small map than a large one.

Other:
Entrance: Teleport

Taunts:
1. Isaac lifts his arms as if about to cast a Psynergy, and the ground around him starts to tremble and glow.
2. A Venus Djinn appears and jumps around a few times before perching on Isaac's arm.
3. Isaac raises a hand and the Psynergy rings appear around his body.

Grabs: Uses the Psynergy hand.
A: Slashes the enemy with sword
> Throw: Throws in that direction and then casts Blast at opponent
< Throw: Turns and throws in that direction and then casts Ragnarok at opponent
^ Throw: Throws upward and then casts Bolt at opponent
v Throw: Uses Pound to smash downwards

 

[Matt Silver]

I don't want Isaac in because claymation would look terrible in Brawl.

they could just re-design him to look more suited in brawl

You guys are both some kind of crazy. The crazy kind.

 

[robo_peng]

you're right zagman, i had dspecial as granite at first to make him heavier and take less damage, but then the only way t oset youre Djinn so you could use specials again would be to let them return over time, but then i figured that would take to much control away from the player so changed it and forgot to switch the final smash up.

I like you're ideas for the grab, and the taunts too. What if the taunts had the thought bubbles pop up like they did in the game?

 

[Mr-Armageddon]

I agree with Ragnarok, Megiddo, and Judgment. Quake sounds too similar to DK's move, so it's somewhat boring. I'd rather Isaac have some other move instead. Venus is neat, but I think it would be cooler as Gaia. It would be essentially the same move, but I think it would look better.

I have to say I still stand by Venus. I think that would look pretty sweet in Brawl, with the swarms of earth djinn. I was also thinking about what you said concerning quake and DK. I was thinking, instead of quake shooting the enemies up, it could be more of a shockwave type thing. It pushes the area around Isaac in so the ground on the right would go right, left would go left. This would clear all opponents away from him, and make it different from DK's v B. If all else fails, I guess it could be spire. I just prefer quake.

 

[Mr-Armageddon]

I agree with Ragnarok, Megiddo, and Judgment. Quake sounds too similar to DK's move, so it's somewhat boring. I'd rather Isaac have some other move instead. Venus is neat, but I think it would be cooler as Gaia. It would be essentially the same move, but I think it would look better.{QUOTE]

I have to say I still stand by Venus. I think that would look pretty sweet in Brawl, with the swarms of earth djinn. I was also thinking about what you said concerning quake and DK. I was thinking, instead of quake shooting the enemies up, it could be more of a shockwave type thing. It pushes the area around Isaac in so the ground on the right would go right, left would go left. This would clear all opponents away from him, and make it different from DK's v B. If all else fails, I guess it could be spire. I just prefer quake.

 

[Mr-Armageddon]

I'm really sorry about the posts. I'm having some editing difficulties and screwed up. Please forgive me.

 

[LeuMasT]

Isaac Analysis

I’m going to provide a brief analysis of how I believe Isaac would appear in Brawl. It's hard to say exactly what moves he'll have or how they'll work, so I'll just give a general overview.



ORIGIN: Golden Sun for the GBA provides the original framework of the character in combat. He stands at a knee bent pose with a sword pointed diagonally skyward, body slightly tilted for action. When he attacks, it is in a series of fast rushes, but the bulk of combat is built on psychic-based magic involving tiny Djinn creatures and occasionally, summons. He stood far back from his foes and struck when the initiative occurred.

In order to brawl, he will require a new kind of adeptness. No longer is there the buffer of turn based combat and distant attack frames, but up close and personal fighting where position and strength at every second matter. In this regard, much of the vision of Isaac as a fighter in his own games disappears from view, for while he would be reminiscent of the elements of his own game, he would be new in their implementation.

MOVEMENT: Isaac in Brawl will move quite differently, but we can have clues as to what to expect for the way he gets around the field. Previous psychic characters in Smash Bros games have had a float-like jump and very fluid motions, like Ness or Mewtwo. Isaac is of course very different from them in the fact that he holds his own with a blade equally to his mind powers. I estimate that he would have a user controlled float jump, but it would be much lower and less extended due to lower specialization. On the ground, there’s no reason to assume he’d be any more special than other smash characters, so a medium motion can be expected.

COMBAT: Golden Sun never focused much on intimate combat, which is where detailing Isaac becomes a trickier gamble. A good way to guesstimate how this will work will be to observe what Sakurai has done with other characters of certain other combat foci. It is generally assumed by observing Isaac’s abilities that his general combat will focus on a combination of sword fighting and psynergy with possible elements of Djinn and summons intermingled in the fray.

SWORDFIGHTING: While possible Sakurai may equip Isaac with his axe or mace, it is more likely he will be granted the most easily implemented, the sword. Isaac’s weapons are known to be somewhat heavier (including even claymores), but his attacks do not implement the power and strength shown by Garet, his trusted companion, who can wield the same. His sword moves would then not be incredibly quick on average or particularly powerful.

This is not so negative as it sounds. I estimate Isaac’s normal combat sword attacks would not shine as his outstanding category, as it is not hard to recognize the fact he could not match Link or Ike in their use of the weapon. It would be on par with the attacks of others, probably at average or slightly above. It would not, however, be his best option.

PSYNERGY (Melee): About half of Isaac’s A button attacks would probably be direct from his sword, while the rest would be recognizably similar to other psychic characters. These moves, small pushes or tugs in directions like Ness’s forward air or throws, would represent a major part of Golden Sun’s gameplay and Isaac’s character, which was pushing, grabbing, carrying, and pulling objects with his mind. Like before however, Isaac would not be the specialist of this category, and while his psychic moves can be very handy, they will not outshine characters directly dependant on them, like Lucas or Mewtwo. A transparent hand could appear with these attacks for that nostalgic touch.

Overall, his standard attacks will be a strong combination, but individually, they will not outdo characters specialized in their categories.

PSYNERGY (magic, elemental): This will, I believe, be Isaac’s strong suit as a character, but the most unpredictable category. Would they give our hero his standard set of Earth moves from the Knight path? Will it be a combination of many classes, such as his Ninja or Dragoon path? Maybe a focus deeper on Djinn instead of magic? One thing is certain, this is the bulk of Isaac’s specialty, and will be treated as such, but will take on a much more visceral appearance than their cinematic GBA counterparts.

I personally believe Sakurai will look at the most recognized form of Isaac, which is of course his role as the Earth elemental in the party. Each character was clearly intended for a specific and easy to follow elemental assignment, which varied in the class system, but was true overall for their person. Isaac very clearly was the party’s earth specialist, fire, wind, and water for Garet, Ivan, and Mia respectively.

Some possible moves:
Ragnarok: I can see this being used in a multitude of ways. One of them is a chargeable standard special move like Marth’s or Roy’s that drops a flaming sword at high speed when released. The other is a final smash, which I’ll get to later.
Quake (x): Any of Isaac’s quake moves would be a superb standard or down special. High splash damage to those on the ground in terms of distance from the epicenter or other moves.
Spire (x): Another good down special, shoots a cone of rock up from the ground. A Punji strike would be similar.
(x) Gaia: Much better as a Final Smash, but could be used, perhaps as stones drawn up from the ground and directed at foes as projectiles. The actual explosive version seems hard to implement as a normal special.
Cure (x): If Isaac got a cure at will move, he’d be the first character to do so, which makes this unlikely considering he would be of decent weight. But, it’s possible.
Growth (X): Would have to be a very odd attack. Perhaps a vine starts in the ground and has growth directed like Ness’s lightning to constrict foes?
Move/Carry: A great recovery, a transparent hand would lift or toss Isaac if need be.

Other non-specific earth moves could be conceived too.

FINAL SMASH: Most of Golden Sun’s strong attacks were very cinematic and easy to make into Final Smashes. While Judgment seems to be the most popular candidate, many other moves could be seen in this way, Megiddo, Titan Blade, Ragnarok, Odyssey, Cruel Ruin, and Daedalus to name a few. Sakurai will have no problem choosing one.

In retrospect, expect Isaac to be a very well balanced, intuitive character. His sword won’t be better than Link’s or mind tricks better than Lucas’, but he’ll have good specials, speed, and weight to keep him on the field in a good fight. Don’t be broken hearted if he’s not as majestic as in his own game, but recognize the potential he has as a smasher over RPG hero.

 

[RandomGuy42]

Why would Isaac have Cruel Ruin?

Anyway, nice writeup.

 

[LeuMasT]

Why would Isaac have Cruel Ruin?

Anyway, nice writeup.

He probably wouldn't. I was just trying to remember some fancy attacks is all.

 

[Rubydragon]

By the way. did anyone notice any hint of Golden Sun representation from the stickers? They were a little small for me to see, but maybe you all saw something?

 

[Arteen]

Nice writeup.

By the way. did anyone notice any hint of Golden Sun representation from the stickers? They were a little small for me to see, but maybe you all saw something?

I haven't seen any. Here's hoping for a GS playable character, non-Isaac AT, stage, item, or music in next week's updates!

 

[Mr-Armageddon]

By the way. did anyone notice any hint of Golden Sun representation from the stickers? They were a little small for me to see, but maybe you all saw something?

I didn't see anything Golden Sun related. Are you saying you think you saw something?

 

[RandomGuy42]

By the way. did anyone notice any hint of Golden Sun representation from the stickers? They were a little small for me to see, but maybe you all saw something?

Of course not. They're hiding the newcomer series until their proper unveiling.

 

[Bassoonist]

By the way. did anyone notice any hint of Golden Sun representation from the stickers? They were a little small for me to see, but maybe you all saw something?

No, but I did see Andy from Advance Wars.

Hm...

Nice writeup.

I haven't seen any. Here's hoping for a GS playable character, non-Isaac AT, stage, item, or music in next week's updates!

We want the playable character. I fear if one of the others is updated first that means that GS won't get playable representation.

Isaac for next week's playable character confirmation!

 

[Dragothel]

He probably wouldn't. I was just trying to remember some fancy attacks is all.

Was just playing Lost Age again,and these are all really good moves.

Odessey might work well too, even if its just a buffed version of Ragnarok

 

[Arteen]

We want the playable character. I fear if one of the others is updated first that means that GS won't get playable representation.

Isaac for next week's playable character confirmation!

Goroh was annonced as an AT before a CF confirmaion (CF is definitely in, of course), the Franklin Badge was announce before Lucas, and Yoshi had music and a stage announced before he was. Of course, Isaac confirmed as playable would be awesome.

 

[Bassoonist]

Goroh was annonced as an AT before a CF confirmaion (CF is definitely in, of course), the Franklin Badge was announce before Lucas, and Yoshi had music and a stage announced before he was. Of course, Isaac confirmed as playable would be awesome.

Those are all examples of returning series, though. All of the new series have been introduced by new characters. (those that are confirmed to have playable representation, that is.)

 

[EPX2]

Given that there's such a vast array of abilities that Isaac and Felix can learn in the GS series (from what I've seen, at least; I've never actually played a GS game, strangely), there's nothing dictating that if Felix were to be included as a playable character, he'd have to be a clone of Isaac. Even so, why exactly have people become so anti-clone? Before Sakurai suggested that some characters may not return, virtually no one had any issues with clones; afterwards, it seems like the general mindset is, "AHH, CLONES! KILL THEM ALL WITH FIRE!"

 

[courte]

well we all knew about this

http://www.capcom-fc.com/sf4/2008/01/post_2.html

and it just got me thinking, if theres a third its more than likely Isaac will appear, or perhaps a new character. Either way, i feel them pulling a Roy for a new Golden Sun game is a complete possibility.

 

[gangstajuice02]

it's most likely to happen!!

 

[Rubydragon]

I'm sorry? What does that link have to do with Golden Sun?

No, I didn't think I saw one, I just wanted to see if anyone here did, because those stickers are a little small for me to see properly, just making sure.

 

[Arteen]

Given that there's such a vast array of abilities that Isaac and Felix can learn in the GS series (from what I've seen, at least; I've never actually played a GS game, strangely), there's nothing dictating that if Felix were to be included as a playable character, he'd have to be a clone of Isaac. Even so, why exactly have people become so anti-clone? Before Sakurai suggested that some characters may not return, virtually no one had any issues with clones; afterwards, it seems like the general mindset is, "AHH, CLONES! KILL THEM ALL WITH FIRE!"

We're assuming that Felix would be a clone in Brawl because he's a clone in Golden Sun. Sure, Felix could be given a distinct, unique moveset, but every difference would be arbitrary and forced. In addition, if Felix was in Brawl too, that would be two Venus adepts. He just wouldn't be that interesting compared to the other choices. I want characters like Sheba, Mia, or Alex because they would have inherently different movesets and represent Golden Sun more fully. An adept with a different element and fighting style would make a great complement to Isaac.

Sheba for Brawl!

 

[Rubydragon]

I couldn't agree with you more.

 

[zagman505]

courte, you do realize that isaac is not a 3rd party character, right?

and i agree, felix would be better at most as an alt. costume for isaac. i know that he wouldn't have to be a clone of isaac in brawl, but it's more than likely that he would be. i would much prefer alex, especially since alex has such an important role in the games.

 

[Matt Silver]

Alex definitely. Who wouldn't want a crazy evil guy with water powers? How often do you see that?

 

[Rabenfeder]

Hello, i am new here in this forum.
And all i've got to say is that Isaac has to be in Brawl.
There could be a hint on the Smash Bros. Dojo.

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/music/music01.html

"Motoi Sakuraba : Golden Sun series /
Mario Golf & Tennis series"

The composer of the golden sun series in brawl?
Sorry if someone mentioned this already ^^

 

[raphtmarqui]

The Golden Sun composer is a nice hint that there could be a GS character, but its still not definite.

 

[Mr-Armageddon]

Alex definitely. Who wouldn't want a crazy evil guy with water powers? How often do you see that?

Alex would be nice, especially because of the lack of villains in Brawl. But something tells me that we'll only get one GS rep, Isaac. I think Alex might be an AT.

 

[RegalBuster]

I really hope Isaac is playable.