Isaac for DLC - One day. Some day. Golden Sunday.

[Skyblade12]

Indeed. And provided Alex is the Antagonist. The ending of DD left me wondering if he wasn't as evil as the GBA games made him out to be. I still can't decide if I should file him under Anti-Hero or Antagonist.

I do think though that if Isaac makes it in, they have no excuse when it comes to a GS4.

He's not all evil, and never has been. At Jupiter Lighthouse, he abandons Agatio and Karst because he still cares for Mia. At the beginning of The Lost Age, when he's talking about bringing back the golden age of alchemy, he gets so excited about what he's saying that he nearly reveals his plan to become a god. I think he did believe what he was saying, that he wanted that age to return. It just wasn't all that he wanted.

He's never been a one-dimensional "look at me I'm evil" villain the way Saturos and Menardi were. It's what I always liked about him. He's shrouded in mystery, and there's a lot left that we don't know.

Honestly, his attempt to summon a storm against Vale struck me as the most out of character thing he ever did.

 

[JaidynReiman]

He's not all evil, and never has been. At Jupiter Lighthouse, he abandons Agatio and Karst because he still cares for Mia. At the beginning of The Lost Age, when he's talking about bringing back the golden age of alchemy, he gets so excited about what he's saying that he nearly reveals his plan to become a god. I think he did believe what he was saying, that he wanted that age to return. It just wasn't all that he wanted.

He's never been a one-dimensional "look at me I'm evil" villain the way Saturos and Menardi were. It's what I always liked about him. He's shrouded in mystery, and there's a lot left that we don't know.

Honestly, his attempt to summon a storm against Vale struck me as the most out of character thing he ever did.

So he's probably definitely an antagonist, but he's not doing everything just for the evulz. It might be that he's trying to become a God because he wants to make the world a better place, but in HIS own mind, as opposed to what is truly best for the world.


That's interesting. He definitely could use a lot more development. And of course, Isaac is still standing in his way.

 

[Nintendokusou]

So he's probably definitely an antagonist, but he's not doing everything just for the evulz. It might be that he's trying to become a God because he wants to make the world a better place, but in HIS own mind, as opposed to what is truly best for the world.


That's interesting. He definitely could use a lot more development. And of course, Isaac is still standing in his way.

Yup, that's about it!
And although he tries to summon a storm above Vale, we know the Wise One kept them all safe so, if Alex realized that Vale was empty, he probably only did that to test his powers since he knew he wasn't going to hurt anyone and Vale was gonna be destroyed anyway with the Golden Sun's light!

 

[MagiusNecros]

Alex is out for himself. He wants to gain power. He is a more grey character.

 

[Burruni]

Let me emphasize and elaborate what I said.

If Isaac comes as Smash 4 DLC, Alex is a POSSIBILITY in Smash 5. There are dozens of fighters that are healthy possibilities but don't happen with each game.

There are three RPGs present in Smash for the roster.


Pokemon, Nintendo's largest series other than himself. Almost all unique fighters.


Mother, a 3 part RPG series with a grim facing future despite the large fan support behind them. Had one unique fighter and an added Quadi clone.


Xenoblade (Chronicles), Massive title in terms of the fan support that got the game localized when there weren't plans for it and critically acclaimed to be "A Rebirth for the RPG genre." After realizing their error with poor original support, have been pressing and presenting for the re-release and sequel. People question a second character happening at all.

Clearly to state, Isaac alongside Golden Sun would be somewhere between Xenoblade and Mother. And the hopes for a second fighter namely come to how major GS4 is if/when it comes out and who is highlighted in it. Best case scenario may very well be Matthew if he's the protagonist again with having a syndrome of a quasi fighter... but sharing more of a design similarity to Isaac, unless they went GS/TLA design for Smash 4 but Smash 5 has his DD design, akin how became .

Let's not get too ambitious when the fight is over getting a first fighter in.

 

[Falgor]

I agree with the "I wanna be the God of the new world" theory. Alex could have wanted to bring back the Golden Age because, well, it was necessary not only for him and his plans, but also because otherwise, Weyard would slowly die. Though there's still a lot of mystery about the last Golden Age (maybe not so Golden for everyone)... He could have knowledge about the past which led him to want to rule Weyard himself, and to succeed, he needs a lot of power.

 

[MagiusNecros]

There's also a consideration for why Alchemy was sealed away in the first place. Besides quarreling nations, a reason for alchemy having to be sealed away because of something else could always be a possibility.

 

[9Blades]

I think GS4 is happening at this point. I also think Isaac will probably be playable in some way, since the conflict between Isaac and Alex NEEDS to happen.

Isaac vs Alex does need to happen. Preferably in an epic style like this.

 

[UcheD914]

Issac would make an excellent addition, but if they're looking for a more current generation Matthew is a better alternative.

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

Issac would make an excellent addition, but if they're looking for a more current generation Matthew is a better alternative.

Most of us think Isaac is getting in due to him still being the series mascot.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Man, haven't been in here for a while... How's the going ons been going on?

 

[smashtriforce77]

Isaac is my favorite character for smash bros , added me in the list

 

[Burruni]

Man, haven't been in here for a while... How's the going ons been going on?

Hoping for GS4 at E3.
Still looking as a top 5 character for Ballot DLC.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Hoping for GS4 at E3.
Still looking as a top 5 character for Ballot DLC.

So, same old same old, eh?

 

[Burruni]

So, same old same old, eh?

Oh.
And hoping the next Smashified is Isaac.

...But yeah, all the same.

 

[JohnnySparkxs]

Man, haven't been in here for a while... How's the going ons been going on?

Nothing new, good to see you back .

 

[ZeldaMaster]

Let me emphasize and elaborate what I said.

If Isaac comes as Smash 4 DLC, Alex is a POSSIBILITY in Smash 5. There are dozens of fighters that are healthy possibilities but don't happen with each game.

There are three RPGs present in Smash for the roster.


Pokemon, Nintendo's largest series other than himself. Almost all unique fighters.


Mother, a 3 part RPG series with a grim facing future despite the large fan support behind them. Had one unique fighter and an added Quadi clone.


Xenoblade (Chronicles), Massive title in terms of the fan support that got the game localized when there weren't plans for it and critically acclaimed to be "A Rebirth for the RPG genre." After realizing their error with poor original support, have been pressing and presenting for the re-release and sequel. People question a second character happening at all.

Clearly to state, Isaac alongside Golden Sun would be somewhere between Xenoblade and Mother. And the hopes for a second fighter namely come to how major GS4 is if/when it comes out and who is highlighted in it. Best case scenario may very well be Matthew if he's the protagonist again with having a syndrome of a quasi fighter... but sharing more of a design similarity to Isaac, unless they went GS/TLA design for Smash 4 but Smash 5 has his DD design, akin how became .

Let's not get too ambitious when the fight is over getting a first fighter in.

Bro Fire Emblem is an SRPG.

 

[9Blades]

Issac would make an excellent addition, but if they're looking for a more current generation Matthew is a better alternative.

Or Isaac with a Matthew alt

 

[Burruni]

Bro Fire Emblem is an SRPG.

Yes. But the RPG aspect is in a fantasy world and the prescence of stats and is not nearly as close as an RPG to the other three.
But, TO include it, FE's got a 13 game history with a MASSIVE recent release that got flagship character second protagonist to get two games avatar character and two quick clones .

With Golden Sun being 3-4 games with possibly a massive recent release by Smash 5, it's... still overall more likely to be a kind of a clone than a unique character which Alex should be.

 

[Skyblade12]

Yes. But the RPG aspect is in a fantasy world and the prescence of stats and is not nearly as close as an RPG to the other three.
But, TO include it, FE's got a 13 game history with a MASSIVE recent release that got flagship character second protagonist to get two games avatar character and two quick clones .

With Golden Sun being 3-4 games with possibly a massive recent release by Smash 5, it's... still overall more likely to be a kind of a clone than a unique character which Alex should be.

I don't think so. If any other series was going to get a clone character made whole, it would be Alph from Olimar. Among a series with so many distinct characters, I can't see Sakurai giving Golden Sun a clone before giving the series another full character.

 

[Spootondorf]

There's also a consideration for why Alchemy was sealed away in the first place. Besides quarreling nations, a reason for alchemy having to be sealed away because of something else could always be a possibility.

That's what I was thinking, especially considering the existence of dark Psynergy, the Psynergy vortices, and Grave Eclipse-related stuff. What if the four "original" elements of Alchemy are necessary for light and dark Psynergy, or vice versa? Maybe sealing the four was the only way to preclude use of the latter.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Dark is the absorbtion of the 4 elements. While light would be the absence of them.

Based on light and the color spectrum.

Even though the game implies the inverse.

 

[Mishudo]

How would y'all feel if instead of an immediate successor to Dark Dawn we actually got a prequel to the first one instead?

 

[Burruni]

How would y'all feel if instead of an immediate successor to Dark Dawn we actually got a prequel to the first one instead?

Dark Dawn kinda ended on a cliffhanger.... we've waited long enough for an end to the story before we go further back.

 

[JaidynReiman]

How would y'all feel if instead of an immediate successor to Dark Dawn we actually got a prequel to the first one instead?

Prequel is fine... AFTER we get Dark Dawn's continuation.

 

[Chapter Serf]

How would y'all feel if instead of an immediate successor to Dark Dawn we actually got a prequel to the first one instead?

You don't leave your fans with that level of a cliffhanger and then say "Hey, we're making a prequel now!" You just don't. That causes people to organize torch and pitchfork mobs. Which in turn causes them to go stupid on MetaCritic and whatever else is out there and start dishing out bad ratings. That leads to bad sales, which leads to a dead series, which leads to no more games.

Wrap up the story that you started with Dark Dawn. Then go on and make Prequels and whatever.

All you have to do is look at the average reaction of the A Song of Ice and Fire fan whenever news of more Dunk and Egg comes out. It's like "Why are you working on that? People want The Winds of Winter. Not Dunk and Egg."

P.S: I think he has stated that he's put Dunk and Egg on the back burner while he "tries" to pound out The Winds of Winter. Of course, we ARE talking about He-Who-Will-Not-Write here.

 

[Skyblade12]

You don't leave your fans with that level of a cliffhanger and then say "Hey, we're making a prequel now!" You just don't. That causes people to organize torch and pitchfork mobs. Which in turn causes them to go stupid on MetaCritic and whatever else is out there and start dishing out bad ratings. That leads to bad sales, which leads to a dead series, which leads to no more games.

Wrap up the story that you started with Dark Dawn. Then go on and make Prequels and whatever.

And I'm pretty sure Camelot learned that lesson after how upset fans were that Dark Dawn didn't continue the cliffhanger from The Lost Age.

 

[Chapter Serf]

And I'm pretty sure Camelot learned that lesson after how upset fans were that Dark Dawn didn't continue the cliffhanger from The Lost Age.

Refresh me... It's been YEARS since I played TLA.

 

[Skyblade12]

Refresh me... It's been YEARS since I played TLA.

Spoiler

Alex stands atop Mt. Aleph, and receives the power of the Golden Sun. He attempts to test his newfound godhood by unleashing a storm upon Vale and the foothills around Mt. Aleph (I think it would have been much more in character had he just said the foothills around Mt. Aleph. Not actively trying to hurt people, just completely uncaring whether his activities wipe out a village as a side effect).

He fails, and the Wise One shows up and tells Alex that he sealed some of the power of the Golden Sun within the Mars Star, so that it now resides with Isaac. Mt. Aleph then crumbles, taking Alex with it, and the game finally ends.

So the game ends with a cliffhanger of a potential battle between Isaac and Alex for the full power of the Golden Sun and nigh-omnipotence.

Dark Dawn let us know that Alex is still alive. AND THAT'S IT.

WE ALREADY KNEW THAT, CAMELOT!

 

[JaidynReiman]

Spoiler

Alex stands atop Mt. Aleph, and receives the power of the Golden Sun. He attempts to test his newfound godhood by unleashing a storm upon Vale and the foothills around Mt. Aleph (I think it would have been much more in character had he just said the foothills around Mt. Aleph. Not actively trying to hurt people, just completely uncaring whether his activities wipe out a village as a side effect).

He fails, and the Wise One shows up and tells Alex that he sealed some of the power of the Golden Sun within the Mars Star, so that it now resides with Isaac. Mt. Aleph then crumbles, taking Alex with it, and the game finally ends.

So the game ends with a cliffhanger of a potential battle between Isaac and Alex for the full power of the Golden Sun and nigh-omnipotence.

Dark Dawn let us know that Alex is still alive. AND THAT'S IT.

WE ALREADY KNEW THAT, CAMELOT!

TECHNICALLY, that's not much of a cliffhanger. All it states is that part of the Golden Sun's power was within Isaac, preventing Alex from becoming all-powerful and allowing The Wise One to defeat him. Its really not a cliffhanger, it could've ended like that and they're like "Yup, Alex really is dead."


Dark Dawn is an actual cliffhanger.

 

[Skyblade12]

TECHNICALLY, that's not much of a cliffhanger. All it states is that part of the Golden Sun's power was within Isaac, preventing Alex from becoming all-powerful and allowing The Wise One to defeat him. Its really not a cliffhanger, it could've ended like that and they're like "Yup, Alex really is dead."


Dark Dawn is an actual cliffhanger.

If Alex was actually dead, the entire scene was pointless. It only exists to set up potential going forward. Even if you do accept that Alex is dead, it sets up Isaac holding the power of the Golden Sun. And the pay off of that is... Oh, wait. There isn't any.

 

[Starless]

Dark is the absorbtion of the 4 elements. While light would be the absence of them.

Based on light and the color spectrum.

Even though the game implies the inverse.

And Camelot manages to contradict themselves even in the first two games, since dark attacks are either Venus (Charon and several unleashes) or Jupiter (Catastrophe). Light attacks are also either Venus (Judgment, Crystallux) or Jupiter (Eclipse, several unleashes). Chaos Chimera's attacks are also Venus and Jupiter, despite all of them being dark elemental. So this either means the 4 elements are somehow needed for both Light and Dark psynergy.

 

[Falgor]

And Camelot manages to contradict themselves even in the first two games, since dark attacks are either Venus (Charon and several unleashes) or Jupiter (Catastrophe). Light attacks are also either Venus (Judgment, Crystallux) or Jupiter (Eclipse, several unleashes). Chaos Chimera's attacks are also Venus and Jupiter, despite all of them being dark elemental. So this either means the 4 elements are somehow needed for both Light and Dark psynergy.

I see Judgment, Eclipse more like another kind of energy than Light. If you see it like I do, it's not a contradiction. As for Dark, well, nothings perfect. If they are too careful to stay 100% logical with the previous games, they won't add much new content to the games. Light and Dark Psynergy was a good idea, and such an insignificant thing shouldn't have stopped them from including it imo.

 

[Nintendokusou]

Well, the fact Isaac has the power of the Mars Star doesn't really mean that much!
It can be just a plot device for the Wise One to prevent Alex from gaining full power, it doesn't need to imply it will lead to a fight between Isaac and Alex...
However, Dark Dawn did suggest someone (probably Alex) was stalking the Wise One... so the battle might happen afterall.
If it does happen, you should be ready for Isaac to not be playable during it and for Alex to wipe the floor with him!
I know Isaac is the most powerful adept, but he is a Venus adept with Mars energy, while Alex is a Mercury adept with Jupiter and Venus energy, and who knows... maybe Dark and Light energy too! He would have a tremendous advantage if the fight were to happen. Unless the Wise One gives Isaac an hand or something...

How would y'all feel if instead of an immediate successor to Dark Dawn we actually got a prequel to the first one instead?

No... just no...
I'm all in for prequels starring the Jenei and Exathi, or even a side story with Feizhi or something, at some point, but not NOW!
C'mon, they left us with a huge cliffhanger and a new Mourning Moon right about to happen!
A prequel to the first game would just be a huge slap across the face at this moment!

By the way, this Alex and Tuaparang story is very strange and confusing... I can't figure out if he is manipulating the High Empyror into doing something or if he was following his plan all along and betrayed him at the end of Dark Dawn, or not...
First, we know the Empyror is interested in war and militaristic affairs, so he wants to get his own hands on the Apollo Lens and has some kind of plan for them.
Since the last games, Alex managed to somehow gain enough of his trust to the point where he is assigned to this mission, together with Blados and Chalis. He could be manipulating the Empyror, like he did to Volechek, we don't know.
The reason I say that is because he activated part of the Alchemy Well some years prior to these events.
Next, they basically drop that vortex machine into the Konpa Cave at the start of the game (right after the "Camelot presents") because they know Matthew is going to be there later, so they plan to manipulate him into activating the Alchemy Machines necessary to unlocking the Lens. The Empyror wants Matthew to be kept alive and prohibits them from critically harming him!
They even give Matthew the orbs to activate the Apollo Lens later, which Matthew does in an attempt to stop the Grave Eclipse.
At some point, the Empyror thinks he can't trust Blados and Chalis anymore and entrusts Alex with seeing the mission to it's end like he originally had planned.
After flying to Apollo Sanctum to secure the Lens for themselves, Alex provokes the Dark Adepts into attacking him and reveals how the Empyror doesn't trust them. He also hints at how they were planning to point the Lens at Tuaparang for an unknown reason. This in turn allows Matthew and company to activate the Lens and end the Grave Eclipse.
The problem is, there are a lot of questions about this:
- Is the Apollo Lens still usable?
- What did the High Empyror intend to do with the Lens?
- Did he want them to be fired at the Eclipse Tower? Did Alex complete the mission?
- Or did he have another desire and Alex prevented that from happening by having them be fired at the Tower instead?
- Alex still prevented the Lens from being fired at Tuaparang, even if that means the mission wasn't accomplished... would the Empyror forgive him for saving his nation?
- What does Alex gain from all of this in the end?
- Why does the Empyror want Matthew safe at all costs, even though he can probably find another person to do his job?
I don't know anymore, this is so confusing!?
I just think Alex knows more than he let's on, once again... He is probably manipulating the Empyror for some reason!?

 

[JohnnySparkxs]

I just hope that in GS4, we visit all Weyard and Tuaparang.

 

[Nintendokusou]

I just hope that in GS4, we visit all Weyard and Tuaparang.

If the game stars Nowell like I have said before, at least Bilibin, the upper parts of Angara, the Eastern Sea islets and maybe Gondowan, should be visitable, if we take into account she is travelling with Piers and potentially Takeru, although I don't know if any of those qualify as "a place you wouldn't like to go to" because it's dangerous!?

EDIT: Remind me again,why hasn't Golden Sun been made into an anime or Peter Jackson movie yet?

 

[JohnnySparkxs]

I can barely wait 'till Monday, when we get to see Isaac Smashified.

 

[9Blades]

Well, the fact Isaac has the power of the Mars Star doesn't really mean that much!
It can be just a plot device for the Wise One to prevent Alex from gaining full power, it doesn't need to imply it will lead to a fight between Isaac and Alex...
However, Dark Dawn did suggest someone (probably Alex) was stalking the Wise One... so the battle might happen afterall.

Pretty sure that fight will happen eventually. That would be like playing through all of FF7 and suddenly not fighting Sephiroth but some other thing that didn't seem as important.

EDIT: Remind me again,why hasn't Golden Sun been made into an anime or Peter Jackson movie yet?

I had actually wanted to make a Golden Sun animation series, basically a fanfiction explaining what the fourth game would be like. Never got around to it though.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Smashified ‏@smashified 6h6 hours ago
New #Smashified this weekend. This will be the first time we painted two characters together! #NewRecord

Unless its Isaac and Matthew or something, its not Isaac. Apparently it IS two characters together. Its really difficult to tell from their previous statements.

Its probably Inkling for Splatoon hype. -sigh-


Also, they'll be doing a Live Smashified later that's a Mario character.


EDIT: They also wanted to release it today. So yeah, I definitely think its Male/Female Inkling.

 

[Skyblade12]

Unless its Isaac and Matthew or something, its not Isaac. Apparently it IS two characters together. Its really difficult to tell from their previous statements.

Its probably Inkling for Splatoon hype. -sigh-


Also, they'll be doing a Live Smashified later that's a Mario character.


EDIT: They also wanted to release it today. So yeah, I definitely think its Male/Female Inkling.

And that's the final straw for me and Smashified. I don't care anymore. They've broken every rule they've given themselves (no OCs, no characters with pre-existing high quality renders), and they've had really shoddy character selection overall, in my opinion.