Isaac for DLC - One day. Some day. Golden Sunday.

[POKEMANSPIKA]

Thing is, I did BEFORE release. The only character I consider a shoe-in now is Wolf (discarding characters practically confirmed already; Ryu and Roy).

What if Sakurai trolls and doesn't add Ryu and Roy. That be funny.

 

[FalKoopa]

I also have a question: What exactly do you all mean when you use "shoe-in", talking about Isaac? I'm not sure that I get this one right.

It means guaranteed, and it's correctly spelled 'Shoo-in'.

That be funny.

No.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

I'd like to say something about all this... controversy(?) of the last pages:

I do think @ Capybara Gaming is a troll, possibly trying to get bad reactions from us to make us look somehow crazy, to diminish Isaac's chances. Yes, maybe I'm paranoid, but who knows? Anyway, we should just ignore him at this point.
We gave perfectly fine points to explain why Golden Sun isn't dead, and he pretty much just refuses them.
There's no point in keeping this up.

I also have a question: What exactly do you all mean when you use "shoe-in", talking about Isaac? I'm not sure that I get this one right.

Except I'm not a trooll. I'm explaining the reasons I think he won't be in.

 

[JaidynReiman]

With showing that Sakurai had interest in "Magiknights" and adding to the point of small but popular JRPGs being able to throw their weight around into a representative, I could see why you would.

I never really saw it and didn't really have the drive because my GS history was getting like 40% of the way through the game on a week I traded it for Minish Cap with a friend.

I have to admit he's one who seems incredibly likely through the Ballot. Depending on our size of newcomers from it, I think it isn't a stretch to say we could see King K. Rool, Isaac, Inklings, Bandana Dee, and then someone a little more out-there as a last "Sakurai coice," to follow Roy, Ryu, and Wolf.

Um, I thought he was a shoo-in long before Robin was announced. Actually around that time is when I started having doubts.

 

[Burruni]

Um, I thought he was a shoo-in long before Robin was announced. Actually around that time is when I started having doubts.

>w> Well don't let my being an idiot mess with you.

Stupid Burru making assumptions.

 

[Falgor]

It means guaranteed, and it's correctly spelled 'Shoo-in'.

Okay, then to me, no one is a "shoo-in" until being officially confirmed.

About Isaac, I just think he'd work so perfectly in Smash that choosing him should be a no-brainer. He just makes too much sense.

 

[Nintendokusou]

I have a lot of questions about possibilities for various franchises. F-Zero? Probably not happening for a while. Metroid? At best I can see one being in early development. Panel de Pon? Decently long-running IP and last game was 2009, plus this year is the Panel de Pon 20th, so that gives me a decent amount of hope, but that's iffy as well due to everything IS is currently working on.


Golden Sun? The stars align so perfectly its not even funny. Camelot just finished last game? Check. Can't work on anything else right now? They've already done Mario Tennis and Golf, and they can't do HD games. Check. New IP? They haven't done a new IP since Golden Sun, and its the only one they've done. Camelot's 20th anniversary this year (25th if their time at SEGA is counted)? Check. Golden Sun's 15th anniversary next year? Check.


They can upgrade the Dark Dawn engine to work on 3DS, touch up the graphics a bit, then they've got the engine quite easily handled. Its far easier for them to do Golden Sun than it is for them to do anything new. And there's fan demand.


There's a lot of things out of Nintendo I'm unsure of. But frankly, Golden Sun is in the perfect position right now.

I see you guys are having fun today!

I wanted to add that Camelot's latest developement cycle since 2008 is of about two years:
- New Play Control! Mario Power Tennis - 2008 (Wii)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Sun:_Dark_Dawn
- Golden Sun: Dark Dawn - 2010 (DS)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mario_Tennis_Open
- Mario Tennis Open - 2012 (3DS)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mario_Golf:_World_Tour
- Mario Golf: World Tour - 2014 (3DS)
- Golden Sun 4: Mourning Moon - 2016 (3DS) (like the name? )
Does that make sense to you?
Like @ JaidynReiman mentioned, the 15th anniversary is in 2016, this could easily release at the end of that year!
Moreover, Golden Sun almost always launches towards the end of a console's life-cycle, and with the announcement of the NX next year, you can bet the 3DS won't be around for more than 4 years at most! (and I'm being too optimistic about it...)
They do this so there are more people with a 3DS and more people who have played RPGs on the system. That way, they have a larger user base they can appeal too with Golden Sun, get it? Good!

@ POKEMANSPIKA I think I can try to explain why Capcom would have two representatives while other companies wouldn't...
First, all of the third-parties up until now have been company mascots. Out of the four, only Megaman isn't an official mascot, as stated several times by Capcom personnel in the past.
This means they don't have an obvious representative. Moreover, Megaman can be seen as a "mascot" with greater importance in the past, and Ryu as a "mascot" with greater importance in the present. What I mean is that both of them are the face of Capcom for different generations and groups of people. Because of this, since neither is an official mascot, they could think about including both!
Besides that, we don't have a character that clearly represents the history of traditional fighting games in Nintendo consoles, and there are very few candidates that would be better than Ryu, the poster boy for one the most famous and popular fighting game series ever made.
Those reasons alone, and the fact his moveset practically builds itself, are enough to grant him a spot.

Also, this is what Miyamoto had to say about F-Zero the last time he talked about it:

“I actually made F-Zero first, and then after we made F-Zero we made Mario Kart. But we see a lot of other designers who are kind of making more traditional racing style of games. So, we’ve tried to focus on something that feels a little bit more gamey. So, maybe if we create a new type of controller interface, and we find a controller interface that’s particularly suited for F-Zero, then maybe we’ll do something with it in the future.
“Actually, the lead designer on F-Zero who I worked with on the original is Mr. [Takaya] Imamura, and I worked together with him also on the original Star Fox games. So right now, the two of us are busy working on the next Star Fox game.”

I think the franchise can be best described as currently on hiatus, much like Fire Emblem would have been if Awakening weren't as successful as it is.

On the topic of Isaac's inclusion in Smash.
Let's face it, his character should be in there over others for several reasons:
- Has potential for a very unique and varied moveset - Check;
- Has cool appearence and abilities that would make people want to play the game - Check;
- Is part of Nintendo's ONLY traditional fantasy RPG series - Check;
- Has a son that looks like him, allowing for four alternate costumes with minimal tweaking - Check;
- Is from one of the best games ever made for the GBA - Check;
- Has been considered by Sakurai before - Check;
- Has appeared in Smash before and fits in - Check;
- The series has lots of battle adequate music - Check;
- The series has lots of memorable locations for stages - Check;
- The series has lots of enemies for extra modes - Check;
- The series could benefit greatly from inclusion in Smash - Check
If you want to read about those in more detail you can check my article that @ Falgor linked before!
As you can see, there are very few Ballot candidates from unrepresented series that you could say all of this about... even among those that already have their series in there, there's not many outside of characters like K.Rool or Bandana Dee.

And I wasn't joking about Jibanyan earlier, I actually think he has a chance, at least when the next game comes around...

 

[Falgor]

@ Nintendokusou Nintendo stated that the NX wasn't meant to replace the 3DS or the Wii U, even if I guess they will most probably work on other consoles to replace them in that time frame too.

Edit: Oh, also, I'm not sure we can declare that Sakurai considered Isaac, even if the contrary would greatly surprise and disappoint me. We don't have proof for this, sadly. Instead I would say: "Sakurai knows about Isaac's potential since he used one of its most peculiar abilities as an AT in Brawl".

Other than this, I agree with you!

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

@ POKEMANSPIKA I think I can try to explain why Capcom would have two representatives while other companies wouldn't...
First, all of the third-parties up until now have been company mascots. Out of the four, only Megaman isn't an official mascot, as stated several times by Capcom personnel in the past.
This means they don't have an obvious representative. Moreover, Megaman can be seen as a "mascot" with greater importance in the past, and Ryu as a "mascot" with greater importance in the present. What I mean is that both of them are the face of Capcom for different generations and groups of people. Because of this, since neither is an official mascot, they could think about including both!
Besides that, we don't have a character that clearly represents the history of traditional fighting games in Nintendo consoles, and there are very few candidates that would be better than Ryu, the poster boy for one the most famous and popular fighting game series ever made.
Those reasons alone, and the fact his moveset practically builds itself, are enough to grant him a spot.

The thing is Mega Man is the mascot of Capcom no matter how much they want to forget him. Also I don't particularly think anyone would be super HYPED for Ryu. The idea of a fighting character in Smash Bros. kinda seems boring to me since SSB is supposed to be a different fighting game. Yeah Ryu would be cool but he isn't really on Nintendo consoles. I can literally think of only one SF game on a Nintendo system, Street Fighter 2 (including all those rereleases and different names). I just think that its unfair to Sega and Namco.

 

[Megadoomer]

@ Nintendokusou Nintendo stated that the NX wasn't meant to replace the 3DS or the Wii U, even if I guess they will most probably work on other consoles to replace them in that time frame too.

They said the same thing about the DS not replacing the Game Boy Advance, but that happened anyway, so I wouldn't put too much stock into a statement like that.

 

[Nintendokusou]

@ Nintendokusou Nintendo stated that the NX wasn't meant to replace the 3DS or the Wii U, even if I guess they will most probably work on other consoles to replace them in that time frame too.

Edit: Oh, also, I'm not sure we can declare that Sakurai considered Isaac, even if the contrary would greatly surprise and disappoint me. We don't have proof for this, sadly. Instead I would say: "Sakurai knows about Isaac's potential since he used one of its most peculiar abilities as an AT in Brawl".

Other than this, I agree with you!

Oh yeah, I totally forgot I had read that earlier!
I seriously think it could be a VR related device, let's see if I get it right...

Well, I meant it this way... if I remember correctly, Sakurai has stated at some point that most Assist Trophy characters are either characters they considered when researching playable characters or characters they specifically thought couldn't be anything besides an AT and would fit that role perfectly. I believe Isaac fits the first profile better.
Besides that, his abesence from Smash 4 after having a game between both Smashes is really odd, so maybe he was considered at first, like the Chorus Kids and Chrom, and scrapped later, who knows!? (Nintendo has more influence in the choices than most people think...)
If we do get Ryu for example, I think they must have had him planned almost from the start, or at least, mid-development! They wouldn't be doing him now if was just brought up during DLC plans, that's absurd in my eyes...
Well, let's leave it to luck and votes, I say!

EDIT:
@ POKEMANSPIKA There was a Ask Capcom thread that has now been deleted from the Capcom forums where Seith Killian said they had no official mascot, however Megaman or a Servebot would probably be it if they ever wanted to have one.
I don't want Ryu either and I agree it's unfair, I would prefer to see Bomberman, Simon Belmont, Chocobo & Slime Duo or Bub and Bob much more!
Actually, there exist a few other SF games on Nintendo platforms like the Gameboy and 3DS, see here.

 

[Falgor]

Oh yeah, I totally forgot I had read that earlier!
I seriously think it could be a VR related device, let's see if I get it right...

Well, I meant it this way... if I remember correctly, Sakurai has stated at some point that most Assist Trophy characters are either characters they considered when researching playable characters or characters they specifically thought couldn't be anything besides an AT and would fit that role perfectly. I believe Isaac fits the first profile better.
Besides that, his abesence from Smash 4 after having a game between both Smashes is really odd, so maybe he was considered at first, like the Chorus Kids and Chrom, and scrapped later, who knows!? (Nintendo has more influence in the choices than most people think...)
If we do get Ryu for example, I think they must have had him planned almost from the start, or at least, mid-development! They wouldn't be doing him now if was just brought up during DLC plans, that's absurd in my eyes...
Well, let's leave it to luck and votes, I say!

EDIT:
@ POKEMANSPIKA There was a Ask Capcom thread that has now been deleted from the Capcom forums where Seith Killian said they had no official mascot, however Megaman or a Servebot would probably be it if they ever wanted to have one.
I don't want Ryu either and I agree it's unfair, I would prefer to see Bomberman, Simon Belmont, Chocobo & Slime Duo or Bub and Bob much more!
Actually, there exist a few other SF games on Nintendo platforms like the Gameboy and 3DS, see here.

The NX being a VR related device is a pretty good idea! That's probably really being grasping at straws, but in their last video about their plans for E3, the Virtual Boy makes an appearance, so... who knows? Even if they won't show it in 2015, though.

I definitely agree with your point of view about Isaac being considered, it's just the way the sentence was built could be slightly misleading, imho.

About Ryu, they probably talked a lot about him, since Sakurai's stance on fighting games characters was that they're not the most interesting ones for Smash, since being adapted for Smash doesn't change the way they're played a lot from their original games.
Tbh I agree with him on this, and Nintendo/Capcom could (I never use the conditional more than when talking about Smash. We know so little... ) have decided to "force" him to include Ryu in Smash anyway with the influence you talk about.

As a side note, my personal point of view on 3rd parties is: There's already too much, and now it's out of control: Some people don't even think Nintendo for the next characters to add...
And I say this even if Sonic is one of my favorite characters if not my favorite, all media included.

___
On another topic, does this video was already posted here? Isaac's is on the 1st place.

Edit: By the way, the guy holds a strawpoll and Isaac's not number one! So if you can, vote for him!

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

Oh yeah, I totally forgot I had read that earlier!
I seriously think it could be a VR related device, let's see if I get it right...

Well, I meant it this way... if I remember correctly, Sakurai has stated at some point that most Assist Trophy characters are either characters they considered when researching playable characters or characters they specifically thought couldn't be anything besides an AT and would fit that role perfectly. I believe Isaac fits the first profile better.
Besides that, his abesence from Smash 4 after having a game between both Smashes is really odd, so maybe he was considered at first, like the Chorus Kids and Chrom, and scrapped later, who knows!? (Nintendo has more influence in the choices than most people think...)
If we do get Ryu for example, I think they must have had him planned almost from the start, or at least, mid-development! They wouldn't be doing him now if was just brought up during DLC plans, that's absurd in my eyes...
Well, let's leave it to luck and votes, I say!

EDIT:
@ POKEMANSPIKA There was a Ask Capcom thread that has now been deleted from the Capcom forums where Seith Killian said they had no official mascot, however Megaman or a Servebot would probably be it if they ever wanted to have one.
I don't want Ryu either and I agree it's unfair, I would prefer to see Bomberman, Simon Belmont, Chocobo & Slime Duo or Bub and Bob much more!
Actually, there exist a few other SF games on Nintendo platforms like the Gameboy and 3DS, see here.

I think Isaac is the most likely assist trophy to be included as DLC (since Nintendo hasn't seemed to have forgotten him). Also Bub and Bob would be awesome Taito reps.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Not exactly on topic but I just noticed over at Smashified they did artwork for Travis from that Mother 4 fan game: http://smashifiedart.com/characters/travis

A rather odd pick I have to say.

 

[Kenith]

On another topic, does this video was already posted here? Isaac's is on the 1st place.

Edit: By the way, the guy holds a strawpoll and Isaac's not number one! So if you can, vote for him!

From what I can gather, that Strawpoll ended a while ago. Sorry.

 

[JohnnySparkxs]

Not exactly on topic but I just noticed over at Smashified they did artwork for Travis from that Mother 4 fan game: http://smashifiedart.com/characters/travis

A rather odd pick I have to say.

And in their video of Smashifying Travis, they accidentally leaked that they are already working on Isaac, which is awesome.

On the 3rd party subject (sorry for the off-topic), if we would indeed get two characters per company (at least Namco deserves it), I would go with Lloyd Irving or Klonoa (I would much rather have Lloyd 'cause bias and I don't know anything about Klonoa), Bayonetta for Sega (she's been highly requested and her 2nd game is a Wii U exclusive) and Zero or Phoenix Wright for Capcom (both are pretty relevant Capcom characters and have way more story with Nintendo then Ryu, so yeah, screw Ryu).

 

[Burruni]

And in their video of Smashifying Travis, they accidentally leaked that they are already working on Isaac, which is awesome.

On the 3rd party subject (sorry for the off-topic), if we would indeed get two characters per company (at least Namco deserves it), I would go with Lloyd Irving or Klonoa (I would much rather have Lloyd 'cause bias and I don't know anything about Klonoa), Bayonetta for Sega (she's been highly requested and her 2nd game is a Wii U exclusive) and Zero or Phoenix Wright for Capcom (both are pretty relevant Capcom characters and have way more story with Nintendo then Ryu, so yeah, screw Ryu).

1) With Klonoa not being touched in a new title in almost a decade... I'm a little weary on if he'd be chosen in 3rd Party. While Lloyd has his popularity I'd almost more expect KOS-MOS from Xenosaga (because Monolith Soft ties) or Agumon as the lesser rival to Pokemon (like to ) who started off as Vitrual Pets, one of the most basic forms that gaming ever took.
2) SEGA owns Atlus now. Considering how SMT throws its weight around with Nintendo in recent history, would a choice like the company mascot and main demon Jack Frost be a little more noteworthy than a very sexual-themed character?

Just.... tossing a perspective in there.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

And in their video of Smashifying Travis, they accidentally leaked that they are already working on Isaac, which is awesome.

Really? What time of the video?

I watched about halfway through and then got bored and skipped near the end.

 

[xWolfiex]

Man, yesterday I had a dream Isaac is a DLC character. For odd reason, I'd cried.

 

[Skyblade12]

Man, yesterday I had a dream Isaac is a DLC character. For odd reason, I'd cried.

Tears of joy, man. I'm pretty sure we'd all be crying. Isaac as DLC, Golden Sun IV, The Lost Age on Virtual Console (or a rerelease of all three games on 3DS, please?)... We'd all be in tears.

 

[IvanQuote]

What if the Video Game Championship thing Nintendo has...

Only has GameCube games in it...

Played from that Wii U's virtual console...

Ending in a Super Smash Bros Melee tournament...

...where only singular Wiimote control scheme is used.

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

What if the Video Game Championship thing Nintendo has...

Only has GameCube games in it...

Played from that Wii U's virtual console...

Ending in a Super Smash Bros Melee tournament...

...where only singular Wiimote control scheme is used.

I'd win.

 

[JohnnySparkxs]

1) With Klonoa not being touched in a new title in almost a decade... I'm a little weary on if he'd be chosen in 3rd Party.

I always though Klonoa was a girl... Well, turns out I'm wrong.

Really? What time of the video?

I watched about halfway through and then got bored and skipped near the end.

@ Falgor said it in page 349, here's the video:

And here's the print screen I took showing it at 1:31. (You can also see this thread tab )

Spoiler

 

[Skyblade12]

I always though Klonoa was a girl... Well, turns out I'm wrong.



@ Falgor said it in page 349, here's the video:

And here's the print screen I took showing it at 1:31. (You can also see this thread tab )

Spoiler

Wow. If they don't do Isaac going forward, that's just cruel.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I always though Klonoa was a girl... Well, turns out I'm wrong.



@ Falgor said it in page 349, here's the video:

And here's the print screen I took showing it at 1:31. (You can also see this thread tab )

Spoiler

Wow I would never have noticed that, it's so small.

Does that mean we're getting "Power Suit Samus" too?

 

[Skyblade12]

Wow I would never have noticed that, it's so small.

Does that mean we're getting "Power Suit Samus" too?

Haven't we already?

 

[TheSqushiestManatee]

I'd be so hyped for Isaac to join.

 

[Arteen]

I always though Klonoa was a girl... Well, turns out I'm wrong.



@ Falgor said it in page 349, here's the video:

And here's the print screen I took showing it at 1:31. (You can also see this thread tab )

Spoiler

Wow, good eye! I hope that happens!

 

[Falgor]

Wow I would never have noticed that, it's so small.

Does that mean we're getting "Power Suit Samus" too?

Well, that's the reason I don't give Isaac as a 100% guaranteed choice, but I'm not sure how exactly they work. Maybe it's used as a reference for yet another character...?

 

[Felix the Slayer]

Haven't we already?

No, we have Varia Suit Samus, this is Power Suit Samus

Spoiler

 

[Skyblade12]

No, we have Varia Suit Samus, this is Power Suit Samus

Spoiler

The Varia Suit is a modular adaptation of the Power Suit. It's the same piece of machinery, just upgraded.

 

[Felix the Slayer]

The Varia Suit is a modular adaptation of the Power Suit. It's the same piece of machinery, just upgraded.

That is true, but I think most people think of the Varia and Power Suit as two different suits. But still, I don't find it necessary for Power Suit Samus to be Smashified.

 

[Burruni]

That is true, but I think most people think of the Varia and Power Suit as two different suits. But still, I don't find it necessary for Power Suit Samus to be Smashified.

Power, Varia, Fusion, Light, and Phazon suits are all variants (PUN) of Samus's Power Armor.

The only real "versions" of Samus worthy of being a differentiation are

Zero Suit, which focused more on her athleticism and stealth in a more basic kind of strength.

And Dark Samus, which was an adaptation of the SA-X concept into a "Shadow" kind of evil version of Samus with a very differentiated potential in arsenal.

 

[Kirbyfan391]

Omni made a Smashified on Travis, even though a lot of people would find that questionable given he's a fan-character. It could even be that Omni made another render for Samus despite Samus already having a render just because he feels like it(which wouldn't be too surprising actually, Smash 4's Samus uses the Other M design so it may turn off some by default). Regardless, Isaac is there and there'd be no reason for him to unless Omni was really trolling, which I think he's learned not to do after the whole Rayman thing...

Personally, I'm looking forward to seeing Isaac Smashified!

 

[Skyblade12]

Omni made a Smashified on Travis, even though a lot of people would find that questionable given he's a fan-character. It could even be that Omni made another render for Samus despite Samus already having a render just because he feels like it(which wouldn't be too surprising actually, Smash 4's Samus uses the Other M design so it may turn off some by default). Regardless, Isaac is there and there'd be no reason for him to unless Omni was really trolling, which I think he's learned not to do after the whole Rayman thing...

Personally, I'm looking forward to seeing Isaac Smashified!

Was that Omni's work? I thought one of the other artists handled Travis. Wasn't that what they were talking about at the beginning.

 

[Cheezey Bites]

Was that Omni's work? I thought one of the other artists handled Travis. Wasn't that what they were talking about at the beginning.

Nope, it was Chris Szczesiul for the basic mesh and paint over and Andrew Coleman who did most of the 3D work. Omni just did voice-over.

I think Isaac's going to have a lot more paint work done with the 3D more as a set-up than this one, so that'll probably be an Andrew/Omni collab.

 

[Kirbyfan391]

Was that Omni's work? I thought one of the other artists handled Travis. Wasn't that what they were talking about at the beginning.

I guess not. But I'm pretty sure he decides which character to smashify next?

 

[FalKoopa]

I guess not. But I'm pretty sure he decides which character to smashify next?

They seem to be a team, so they probably decide on it together, based on demand (Usually)

 

[JaidynReiman]

They seem to be a team, so they probably decide on it together, based on demand (Usually)

Yeah, usually based on demand, Travis is just a bonus really.


King K. Rool was actually started long before Banjo-Kazooie (back in February) and they had problems getting him working apparently (due to his scales). Banjo-Kazooie didn't become a popular choice until the ballot was announced.

 

[JohnnySparkxs]

Yeah, usually based on demand, Travis is just a bonus really.


King K. Rool was actually started long before Banjo-Kazooie (back in February) and they had problems getting him working apparently (due to his scales). Banjo-Kazooie didn't become a popular choice until the ballot was announced.

I think Banjo-Kazooie was popular, but it wasn't that requested, considering that he is owned by Microsoft, however, his popularity and demand grew a lot when Phil Spencer (I think it was him, not sure) said he would like to see BK on Super Smash.