Isaac for DLC - One day. Some day. Golden Sunday.

[Moydow]

I'm confused as to why this "LP" has had such an effect on people.

It's probably because that LP is one of the few heavily negative opinions on the games, whereas almost everyone else is positively glowing about them. The detractors tend to shout louder than the silent majority, I guess.
To me, the introduction sounds like the guy wanted to dislike the games from the start (and he also describes Phoenix Wright as "the bane of this subforum"), so I haven't actually read the entire thing.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I say it's always best to see gameplay yourself, unless you're actually playing, that's better

 

[N3ON]

Good writing in a game is great, but I don't really play games for the writing, or even the plot, I play for the gameplay... that's what's most important.

I agree the dialogue in GS can drone on a bit, but the gameplay imo is fantastic, and that's what it's all about as far as I'm concerned.

I'd read a book if I wanted to indulge in some writing.

 

[Ludjinnado]

What is this "LP" everyone is talking about? Why is it important? From what I understand, it's a dude talking about how much he hates the game. Why should anyone care about his opinion, and why would it make someone else not like GS if they liked it before the "LP"? Boy, I'm full of questions today. People hate things I like everyday. People argue with me about "Skyward Sword", "A Link Between Worlds", "Golden Sun Dark Dawn", and a bunch more. No matter what anyone says, I'll always like what I like, no "LP" in the world is going to make me not like Golden Sun. I'm confused as to why this "LP" has had such an effect on people.

I could not agree more. Video games are to be enjoyed. If you don't enjoy a game, you don't play it. I understand that games, in general, can be quite expensive and seeking out opinions in the form of reviews, whether personal or professional, before purchasing a game is logical.
But, at the end of the day, you cannot make a judgement about something you haven't tried, and no matter how many negative or positive opinions you find about something, it isn't going to change your opinion of it. For example, I didn't think Xenoblade Chronicles was going to be that fun. Boy, was I wrong, having now spent over 100 hours on it.

I would maybe understand if he were offering a reasonable perspective on flaws that he thought the game had, in order to inform other people wishing to buy the game, but senselessly bashing a game that you dislike just seems pointless. I, personally, dislike Call of Duty and Telltale games which I know are extremely popular, but I don't go around the internet complaining about them.
These two examples, even though I wouldn't play them, are not bad games as proven by their popularity, so expressing my own negativity about the games would solely achieve conflict.

 

[FalKoopa]

I didn't actually know a whole lot about Golden Sun. The fights looked pretty, it had good music, and Isaac is in it. That was about it.
And then I read this LP of the first two GS games. It's....wow. Don't read this if you harbor any fond nostalgic memories of the games, unless you intend to set them on fire. I've never seen such bad writing in a game before, I seriously think I could've done a better job.
Is the DS sequel any better? According to Falgor's linked article, it didn't sell as well or get rated as highly (though to be honest, I don't trust ratings regardless because they tend to be broadly arbitrary and meaningless).

I feel like he went into Golden Sun expecting Super Mario 3D World or something. It's just strange.
Not a fan of text-heavy games obviously - why the hell is he even playing it then?

 

[LasermasterA]

To be honest, that guy must really be dedicated to his hate.

I am surprised, he actually played through both of the games in their entirety.

I wonder what he was expecting, Shakespeare? (although that is also too text heavy ) It was a gameboy advance game, not a uber-huge pc game or anything. You can't display to scale obstacles, fences, etc! Plus it was a turn-based RPG and the puzzles were designed that way.

As a GS fan, one shouldn't offended by it. It's good for the 'lulz'

 

[SmilingMad]

Don't worry, I wouldn't base my entire opinion based on a single LP. However, I also wouldn't ignore it; he does have legitimate reasons to dislike the game and he actually dedicated several updates to fixing the storyline, most of which I agreed with.
For those who don't want to read the entire LP, I'll try to sum up some of his gripes with the game off the top of my head (make of it what you want):

-The characters have little to no characterization behind them. Since this is your generic JRPG thing with a low age target demographic, this is honestly kind of to be expected, though I don't think expecting the minimum amount of effort (simply making characters talk) is a good thing.
-Character dialogue is sometimes botched up to the point of them repeating each other or directly contradicting themselves two lines later. This would probably be the most aggravating thing for me. Kraden what the hell.
-Battles consist of spamming A / Djinns without much strategy. Once again, it's probably because of the target demographic, and it's probably excessively criticized, but he does point out a gamebreaking synergy between two skills that nullify X% of the incoming damage, which indeed would probably throw the difficulty curve out of the window.
-"X is a maze/cave". Apparently just about every dungeon he considered to be a cave, though since it is a picture-based LP the actual contents weren't shown off enough to actually draw any conclusions on the maze part. There certainly are a lot of caves in odd places. There is even a section of a boat that is part of a cave, which even hosts the magical equivalent of the slot for the car keys. I don't actually think boats work like that.
-There are a ton of magic hand upgrades that are all apparently a variation of "move a thing using a magic hand", which I personally don't get either. It's as if Metroid would block your progress with doors that require missiles with no difference between them other than a colour-coded nose.

These are basically the ones that stand out the most, or at least the ones I could recall and word properly. There are quite a few more. I'd at least recommend you to read the updates where he attempts to change the story and progression of the game for the better.

Its a standard story. Nothing that big. Its just kids saving the world from disaster. What more do you expect. The game's really good with its gameplay. Also that dude exaggerates way too much and it doesn't very much seem like a critical review just a hateful one.

His own issues with the story weren't necessarily that it was generic or anything like that. Of course, for these kind of games you don't exactly expect top-notch writing or anything, it's kids doing things, woo. It's all things that you'd probably normally gloss over, at least as a child, because your don't actually expect the game to do anything noteworthy with the story and can therefore be easily ignored most of the time. I imagine that the LPer probably is a writer or at least writes in his spare time/reads books considering the fact that the LP mostly focuses on the writing.

To me, the introduction sounds like the guy wanted to dislike the games from the start (and he also describes Phoenix Wright as "the bane of this subforum"), so I haven't actually read the entire thing.

To clarify this, most, if not all of the LP's on LParchive are from the Something Awful forums. They have a subforum dedicated specifically to LPing video games. From this context, I imagine he probably meant that the games are very often LP'd there (along with apparently Pokemon games)/
This also explains his rather dramatic criticism, as he was entertaining people and people probably liked it that way. I did.

Not a fan of text-heavy games obviously - why the hell is he even play it then?

To quote Terry Pratchett, "Hate is just love with its back turned".
It was probably also out of defiance. GS was apparently considered to be 'cursed', having been LP'd 6-7 times prior and subsequently failed to finish for whatever reasons there might have been.

 

[JohnnySparkxs]

So, that LP is back... Seriously, what is that guy trying to achieve? He's going all like "Oh my god, I hate Golden Sun, and hating on popular things is cool, so I'mma write a text about how much I hate Golden Sun and try to sound funny, by exaggerating on everything".

This is the idea I got from him. Maybe he was trying to be fun with his hate, but that LP isn't even minimally fun, in fact, that LP is as s***ty as Patricia Hernandez Kotaku Pokémon-related articles.

 

[Nintendokusou]

Totally forgot about the Ouroboros. I'll look into improving the stage when I have access again.

Also I heard from a questionably reliable source that the story of Dark Dawn was thought up when the creators were drunk. (More specifically, TV Tropes and a broken link).

It seriously wouldn't surprise me! Then again, some TVTropes sections are discussions of suggestions and ideas, so it can be questionable sometimes...

Speaking of TVTropes, can we forget that LP for a moment and appreciate the developers' foresight when including frost puddles in the game!?
It's the second point in both pages:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Fridge/GoldenSun
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Fridge/GoldenSunDarkDawn

 

[Ludjinnado]

It seriously wouldn't surprise me! Then again, some TVTropes sections are discussions of suggestions and ideas, so it can be questionable sometimes...

Speaking of TVTropes, can we forget that LP for a moment and appreciate the developers' foresight when including frost puddles in the game!?
It's the second point in both pages:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Fridge/GoldenSun
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Fridge/GoldenSunDarkDawn

Wow, yeah. I didn't realise how much thought were put into even the small, seemingly insignificant, parts of the game.
I will never look at a puddle in the same way again.

 

[Nintendokusou]

Wow, yeah. I didn't realise how much thought were put into even the small, seemingly insignificant, parts of the game.
I will never look at a puddle in the same way again.

I just wish they had payed more attention to the character balance in Dark Dawn, why is everything weak to Sveta!?

 

[Starless]

Glad to hear I'm not the only one noticed this! It's not the difficulty I have a problem with Dark Dawn; it's the elemental imbalance. Everything powerful and/or important are weak to Jupiter there. It's like the Fairy type or Gen I Psychics of Golden Sun in that game.

Also no Venus Clan. Why.

 

[Nintendokusou]

Glad to hear I'm not the only one noticed this! It's not the difficulty I have a problem with Dark Dawn; it's the elemental imbalance. Everything powerful and/or important are weak to Jupiter there. It's like the Fairy type or Gen I Psychics of Golden Sun in that game.

Also no Venus Clan. Why.

Yeah, and Venus characters tend to get screwed in that department in all games!
They do have the most powerful weapon to compensate though...

I asked that same Venus Clan question a few posts ago!
I think they must live underground or something, since we only have ruins that seem like they could be related to one, like in Lalivero or Ankhol Ruins. That would make Obaba the last descendant of the Venus Clan, yet she never mentions that, so I doubt it!?
They might still appear someday, since the Anemos are effectively the Jupiter Clan and haven't showed up yet. We only know they raised their ancient city into the sky (leaving a crater near Contigo) and that the underside became the moon... and that Sheba might have fallen from up there.
Also, the moon, in conjunction with Air's Rock, seems to be the reason the people of Garoh turn into werewolves.
I wonder if the Anemos could have something to do with the Tuaparang in some way!?

 

[JaidynReiman]

It seriously wouldn't surprise me! Then again, some TVTropes sections are discussions of suggestions and ideas, so it can be questionable sometimes...

Speaking of TVTropes, can we forget that LP for a moment and appreciate the developers' foresight when including frost puddles in the game!?
It's the second point in both pages:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Fridge/GoldenSun
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Fridge/GoldenSunDarkDawn

All I have to say is...


Curse you. Curse you to heck. I check this early this morning and I was caught on TV Tropes for FOUR F***ING HOURS.

 

[Nintendokusou]

All I have to say is...


Curse you. Curse you to heck. I check this early this morning and I was caught on TV Tropes for FOUR F***ING HOURS.

I told you to read the second point, not he full page man!
And thank you, but I already have other curses to deal with, so you can keep that one...

 

[JaidynReiman]

I told you to read the second point, not he full page man!
And thank you, but I already have other curses to deal with, so you can keep that one...

:D


I can't help it, I just love TV Tropes... I was only joking anyway, I haven't been on TV Tropes in a long time as is. xD

 

[Ludjinnado]

All I have to say is...


Curse you. Curse you to heck. I check this early this morning and I was caught on TV Tropes for FOUR F***ING HOURS.

I, fortunately, managed to stop myself before getting reeled in. Normally, I would have done exactly the same. Some things, like TV Tropes or playing Civ games just robs you of so much time without you knowing. I make a habit of not doing things like that unless I have loads of spare time.

Also no Venus Clan. Why.

Yeah. Hopefully, if they release a new game, they should give us a complete view of Weyard by filling in gaps like that. I mean, there must be a Venus clan somewhere, right?

 

[Nintendokusou]

@ JaidynReiman and @ Ludjinnado , you are right, TVTropes is one of those places you should avoid like the plague unless you are ready to spend a lot of time reading "useless things"!

If the Anemos are living in the sky, and technically "made" the moon, then the Vanus clan must be living underground or on the other side of the Weyard, assuming there is something behind the Gaia Falls...

 

[JaidynReiman]

I've just got this interesting idea for making Isaac the main protagonist in GS4. (Mostly after reading through all that TV Tropes stuff, though some of it was ideas I had from before)


Ending spoilers for Dark Dawn and Lost Age:

Spoiler

The ending of Dark Dawn with Isaac getting beaten up. I don't exactly know how it goes, but apparently its just some basic enemies Isaac should be able to defeat easily enough. Well, I've been thinking for a while now that they're probably being controlled by Alex, so they're souped up enemies far more powerful than normal, and he is (naturally) trying to kill Isaac to get the power of the Golden Sun.

In GS4 Isaac bests many of them, but is overwhelmed, then Alex shows up and you get an unwinnable boss battle against Alex with all of Isaac's powers at his disposal. Despite this Alex mops the floor with Isaac and _kills_ Isaac (not really), casting him into the sea. The power of the Golden Sun within him keeps him from dying, but it also seals his powers away. Isaac washes up on an unknown shore and has to find away to get back and defeat Alex.


Also, the people who found him cleaned him up, so he's clean-shaven now and looks barely older than he did in GS2 just for kicks. Perhaps he even finds the mysterious Venus Clan. :D

Dunno if any of it would happen.

 

[Skyblade12]

I've just got this interesting idea for making Isaac the main protagonist in GS4. (Mostly after reading through all that TV Tropes stuff, though some of it was ideas I had from before)


Ending spoilers for Dark Dawn and Lost Age:

Spoiler

The ending of Dark Dawn with Isaac getting beaten up. I don't exactly know how it goes, but apparently its just some basic enemies Isaac should be able to defeat easily enough. Well, I've been thinking for a while now that they're probably being controlled by Alex, so they're souped up enemies far more powerful than normal, and he is (naturally) trying to kill Isaac to get the power of the Golden Sun.

In GS4 Isaac bests many of them, but is overwhelmed, then Alex shows up and you get an unwinnable boss battle against Alex with all of Isaac's powers at his disposal. Despite this Alex mops the floor with Isaac and _kills_ Isaac (not really), casting him into the sea. The power of the Golden Sun within him keeps him from dying, but it also seals his powers away. Isaac washes up on an unknown shore and has to find away to get back and defeat Alex.


Also, the people who found him cleaned him up, so he's clean-shaven now and looks barely older than he did in GS2 just for kicks. Perhaps he even finds the mysterious Venus Clan. :D

Dunno if any of it would happen.

Spoiler: End of Dark Dawn Spoilers

Actually, Dark Dawn ends with Isaac just missing.

Matthew and his party go on a quest to find the Roc's Feather. This is so that Isaac can repair the Soarwing and use it to explore Mt. Aleph from the air and analyze the Psynergy vortexes, before the Mourning Moon comes back.

By the time Matthew and company make it back, the Lookout Cabin appears empty, and the Mourning Moon has reappeared.

There is no information given as to Isaac's fate. Was he kidnapped by the Tuaparing? Was he trying to explore Mt. Aleph on foot? Was he trying to find Matthew? Was he swallowed by the Mourning Moon? Was he duking it out with Alex somewhere? No clue. The game gives us nothing. Any further details that you found about Isaac's fate are just speculation.

 

[Ludjinnado]

Spoiler: End of Dark Dawn Spoilers

Actually, Dark Dawn ends with Isaac just missing.

Matthew and his party go on a quest to find the Roc's Feather. This is so that Isaac can repair the Soarwing and use it to explore Mt. Aleph from the air and analyze the Psynergy vortexes, before the Mourning Moon comes back.

By the time Matthew and company make it back, the Lookout Cabin appears empty, and the Mourning Moon has reappeared.

There is no information given as to Isaac's fate. Was he kidnapped by the Tuaparing? Was he trying to explore Mt. Aleph on foot? Was he trying to find Matthew? Was he swallowed by the Mourning Moon? Was he duking it out with Alex somewhere? No clue. The game gives us nothing. Any further details that you found about Isaac's fate are just speculation.

I always thought it was weird that the reason you left in the first place was just to get a Roc's feather, but you never actually gave it to Isaac and therefore never finished what was set out to do. I know you did a lot of things in the meantime, but it always struck me as strange.

 

[Nintendokusou]

I've just got this interesting idea for making Isaac the main protagonist in GS4. (Mostly after reading through all that TV Tropes stuff, though some of it was ideas I had from before)


Ending spoilers for Dark Dawn and Lost Age:

Spoiler

The ending of Dark Dawn with Isaac getting beaten up. I don't exactly know how it goes, but apparently its just some basic enemies Isaac should be able to defeat easily enough. Well, I've been thinking for a while now that they're probably being controlled by Alex, so they're souped up enemies far more powerful than normal, and he is (naturally) trying to kill Isaac to get the power of the Golden Sun.

In GS4 Isaac bests many of them, but is overwhelmed, then Alex shows up and you get an unwinnable boss battle against Alex with all of Isaac's powers at his disposal. Despite this Alex mops the floor with Isaac and _kills_ Isaac (not really), casting him into the sea. The power of the Golden Sun within him keeps him from dying, but it also seals his powers away. Isaac washes up on an unknown shore and has to find away to get back and defeat Alex.


Also, the people who found him cleaned him up, so he's clean-shaven now and looks barely older than he did in GS2 just for kicks. Perhaps he even finds the mysterious Venus Clan. :D

Dunno if any of it would happen.

The idea of playing as Isaac again is cool and it is implied that Alex is after him and the Wise One, probably because of the Mars Star's powers, so it could make sense.
However, they have stated before that the story of the descendants is the important one, with the other two serving as a prologue, so I don't expect to be able to use Isaac ever again, outside of a final battle against Alex or a spin-off game...
I said it before and I will say it again, most likely the 4th game will start from the same point as the early events of Dark Dawn and you will be playing as Nowell right from the start, with Takeru showing up soon after!
More specifically, the game will start from the point your party got separated because Nowell and Kraden had to leave the Konpa Cave through the North, instead of following the same path your party took. During that time, Nowell escorted Kraden through the mountains, presumably trying to reach Bilibin, but they probably fail at crossing Border Town too. (Here's the reason why there were traces of Bilibin in the game, including that unused palace music.)
Later, they end up being picked up by Piers and he ferries them to Belinsk, with Nowell staying with him. They probably meet Takeru soon after, since an NPC mentions he left Yamata in "a huge, neat-looking ship"... Geez, I wonder who owns a cool big-ass ship!
Something related to Takeru's quest to help Isaac probably happens, and we have our GS4 quest on our hands!
Also, Alex will probably manipulate them the entire time once again, with the help of his "friends" Club and Diamond...
Here's a plot summary for you to connect the dots too!
Also, don't forget we still haven't seen Ahri yet, and she must have had a name for a reason...
What do you think?

 

[JaidynReiman]

I think Isaac has to be playable again at some point at least. His storyline is too integral and has not been resolved yet.

 

[LasermasterA]

To be specific, Golden Sun's story ain't that bad, just slightly underdeveloped. Although it does rely on a "trope" of cliches, it does have its shining points with the twists, grey morality, controlling both sides, etc. It is just the characterization which suffers, which in my opinion didn't seem much of a problem due to the limitation of the medium (to an extent) plus the sheer joy of having fun playing GS never made me pay much attention to that fault.

And summon rushing works on a lot of stuff but not on the ones that matter most. You can't summon rush the end bosses of both games easily and similarly with a few of the superbosses - Star Magician's guardian ball, Dullahan is tough to summon rush and the third guy being able to use our Djinn. Technically DD should have had that but it splits the final boss in two and gives you time to prepare for THE last boss.

The game does encourage experimentation (although dual classing and triple classing is annoying not referred to) but a lot of it is hidden. Like the not effective, effective and super effective thing. The punctuation marks indicate whether a move is not very effective, effective or very effective but that is never pointed out throughout both games.

I've just got this interesting idea for making Isaac the main protagonist in GS4. (Mostly after reading through all that TV Tropes stuff, though some of it was ideas I had from before)


Ending spoilers for Dark Dawn and Lost Age:

Spoiler

The ending of Dark Dawn with Isaac getting beaten up. I don't exactly know how it goes, but apparently its just some basic enemies Isaac should be able to defeat easily enough. Well, I've been thinking for a while now that they're probably being controlled by Alex, so they're souped up enemies far more powerful than normal, and he is (naturally) trying to kill Isaac to get the power of the Golden Sun.

In GS4 Isaac bests many of them, but is overwhelmed, then Alex shows up and you get an unwinnable boss battle against Alex with all of Isaac's powers at his disposal. Despite this Alex mops the floor with Isaac and _kills_ Isaac (not really), casting him into the sea. The power of the Golden Sun within him keeps him from dying, but it also seals his powers away. Isaac washes up on an unknown shore and has to find away to get back and defeat Alex.


Also, the people who found him cleaned him up, so he's clean-shaven now and looks barely older than he did in GS2 just for kicks. Perhaps he even finds the mysterious Venus Clan. :D

As @ Skyblade12 said, although it doesn't happen in GS3, it could be a prologue like thing in the start to GS3. Not bad though, still makes Isaac the main character again with his golden clone son stranded at their home

And regarding your last point it is just his beard which makes him look much older now, he is supposed to be "looking" in his mid-20s due to the effect of the events at the end of GS2!

Spoiler: End of Dark Dawn Spoilers

Actually, Dark Dawn ends with Isaac just missing.

Matthew and his party go on a quest to find the Roc's Feather. This is so that Isaac can repair the Soarwing and use it to explore Mt. Aleph from the air and analyze the Psynergy vortexes, before the Mourning Moon comes back.

By the time Matthew and company make it back, the Lookout Cabin appears empty, and the Mourning Moon has reappeared.

There is no information given as to Isaac's fate. Was he kidnapped by the Tuaparing? Was he trying to explore Mt. Aleph on foot? Was he trying to find Matthew? Was he swallowed by the Mourning Moon? Was he duking it out with Alex somewhere? No clue. The game gives us nothing. Any further details that you found about Isaac's fate are just speculation.

Dunno if any of it would happen.

Well technically:

(DD Spoilers ahead)

Spoiler

Isaac and Garet wanted to get rid of the psynergy vortexes to prevent the Mourning Moon. However looking at the ending, they were unable to. Plus Himi does dream about Isaac being in danger before you get her, so it was definitely alluding to something having happened to him. I always thought it was referring to the Mourning Moon but it might as well be the Tuaparang.

For my theory, I was thinking along the lines of the Mourning Moon being responsible for Isaac to "lose" his abilities and become the main character again!

I always thought it was weird that the reason you left in the first place was just to get a Roc's feather, but you never actually gave it to Isaac and therefore never finished what was set out to do. I know you did a lot of things in the meantime, but it always struck me as strange.

Spoiler

Well that is why Dark Dawn's storyline is infuriating because in the end, they land back at the starting spot having completed nothing of their initial goal. They did save the world in between but they didn't finish the one task Isaac gave them. We see tons of new stuff but almost none of the old loose ends are tied up but hundreds more are introduced.

Ugh guys stop replying while I am typing, I have to keep re-quoting. Now to the recent most post.

The idea of playing as Isaac again is cool and it is implied that Alex is after him and the Wise One, probably because of the Mars Star's powers, so it could make sense.
However, they have stated before that the story of the descendants is the important one, with the other two serving as a prologue, so I don't expect to be able to use Isaac ever again, outside of a final battle against Alex or a spin-off game...
I said it before and I will say it again, most likely the 4th game will start from the same point as the early events of Dark Dawn and you will be playing as Nowell right from the start, with Takeru showing up soon after!
More specifically, the game will start from the point your party got separated because Nowell and Kraden had to leave the Konpa Cave through the North, instead of following the same path your party took. During that time, Nowell escorted Kraden through the mountains, presumably trying to reach Bilibin, but they probably fail at crossing Border Town too. (Here's the reason why there were traces of Bilibin in the game, including that unused palace music.)
Later, they end up being picked up by Piers and he ferries them to Belinsk, with Nowell staying with him. They probably meet Takeru soon after, since an NPC mentions he left Yamata in "a huge, neat-looking ship"... Geez, I wonder who owns a cool big-*** ship!
Something related to Takeru's quest to help Isaac probably happens, and we have our GS4 quest on our hands!
Also, Alex will probably manipulate them the entire time once again, with the help of his "friends" Club and Diamond...
Here's a plot summary for you to connect the dots too!
Also, don't forget we still haven't seen Ahri yet, and she must have had a name for a reason...
What do you think?

Yes, that was most probably their plan as if there is one thing that Camelot is good at, it's planting seeds for the future. Most of the things that initially seem insignificant start playing a major role. Takeru, Nowell and Ahri are good candidates for the next team. With Nowell and Piers future destination hinted to be very important.

BUT there is one thing. The ending of Dark Dawn. It is definitely incomplete and many things were forced for the sake of including it. We did not need a 8-member party but was given one nonetheless with each character seemingly fitting into the archetype of the previous 8. Then the messed up storyline with the inconclusive ending and now the ongoing hiatus.
I doubt they will follow their initial plans seeing how some of them backfired during Dark Dawn.

Then there is the added factor that it is starting to get annoying. Starting with a new party every single time is not really good strategy of keeping old fans or continuing the story (especially in a saga like structure that GS has started to have). I still think we have to see some of the original party in action! They are the ones who started it and as @ JaidynReiman said (new post.... >.<) are too important to the plot.

Plus then there is Isaac's popularity. If he makes it in Smash, GS will definitely feature him some way or other.

And other stuff. I forgot.

Edit: Also

Spoiler

The whole party has effectively disbanded at the end of GS3. Unlike in GS1 where Isaac's party continued the chase, and met up with Felix in GS2, technically speaking Dark Dawn despite its incompleteness ends on one atleast one note - it will be hard for 'em to all conveniently come back again at once. Plus as far as I remember, there is no password system in Dark Dawn so I don't know how far ahead Camelot planned this time. GS3 was not concurrently developed with a GS4 like how GS1 and 2 were (effectively one game divided into 2).

Sorry for the long convoluted post!

 

[JaidynReiman]

As @ Skyblade12 said, although it doesn't happen in GS3, it could be a prologue like thing in the start to GS3. Not bad though, still makes Isaac the main character again with his golden clone son stranded at their home

And regarding your last point it is just his beard which makes him look much older now, he is supposed to be "looking" in his mid-20s due to the effect of the events at the end of GS2!

Yeah, I know. In fact, Isaac probably purposely grew out his beard so he'd look older. Beardless Isaac probably looks only slightly older than he did in the originals (or more likely, he'd look like how he SHOULD'VE in the originals, given that he was 17).

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I support Isaac, but I've never been loud about it. That might change soon though...I got Golden Sun on the VC from Club Nintendo.

I'll be starting it at some point in the near future, and I'll be sure to share my experiences with you guys!

 

[JohnnySparkxs]

It seems tomorrow Nintendo will announce their plans for E3, the hype is real!

 

[Skyblade12]

It seems tomorrow Nintendo will announce their plans for E3, the hype is real!

Golden Sun 4 HYPE!

 

[Nintendokusou]

To be specific, Golden Sun's story ain't that bad, just slightly underdeveloped. Although it does rely on a "trope" of cliches, it does have its shining points with the twists, grey morality, controlling both sides, etc. It is just the characterization which suffers, which in my opinion didn't seem much of a problem due to the limitation of the medium (to an extent) plus the sheer joy of having fun playing GS never made me pay much attention to that fault.

And summon rushing works on a lot of stuff but not on the ones that matter most. You can't summon rush the end bosses of both games easily and similarly with a few of the superbosses - Star Magician's guardian ball, Dullahan is tough to summon rush and the third guy being able to use our Djinn. Technically DD should have had that but it splits the final boss in two and gives you time to prepare for THE last boss.

The game does encourage experimentation (although dual classing and triple classing is annoying not referred to) but a lot of it is hidden. Like the not effective, effective and super effective thing. The punctuation marks indicate whether a move is not very effective, effective or very effective but that is never pointed out throughout both games.



As @ Skyblade12 said, although it doesn't happen in GS3, it could be a prologue like thing in the start to GS3. Not bad though, still makes Isaac the main character again with his golden clone son stranded at their home

And regarding your last point it is just his beard which makes him look much older now, he is supposed to be "looking" in his mid-20s due to the effect of the events at the end of GS2!




Well technically:

(DD Spoilers ahead)

Spoiler

Isaac and Garet wanted to get rid of the psynergy vortexes to prevent the Mourning Moon. However looking at the ending, they were unable to. Plus Himi does dream about Isaac being in danger before you get her, so it was definitely alluding to something having happened to him. I always thought it was referring to the Mourning Moon but it might as well be the Tuaparang.

For my theory, I was thinking along the lines of the Mourning Moon being responsible for Isaac to "lose" his abilities and become the main character again!

Spoiler

Well that is why Dark Dawn's storyline is infuriating because in the end, they land back at the starting spot having completed nothing of their initial goal. They did save the world in between but they didn't finish the one task Isaac gave them. We see tons of new stuff but almost none of the old loose ends are tied up but hundreds more are introduced.

Ugh guys stop replying while I am typing, I have to keep re-quoting. Now to the recent most post.

Yes, that was most probably their plan as if there is one thing that Camelot is good at, it's planting seeds for the future. Most of the things that initially seem insignificant start playing a major role. Takeru, Nowell and Ahri are good candidates for the next team. With Nowell and Piers future destination hinted to be very important.

BUT there is one thing. The ending of Dark Dawn. It is definitely incomplete and many things were forced for the sake of including it. We did not need a 8-member party but was given one nonetheless with each character seemingly fitting into the archetype of the previous 8. Then the messed up storyline with the inconclusive ending and now the ongoing hiatus.
I doubt they will follow their initial plans seeing how some of them backfired during Dark Dawn.

Then there is the added factor that it is starting to get annoying. Starting with a new party every single time is not really good strategy of keeping old fans or continuing the story (especially in a saga like structure that GS has started to have). I still think we have to see some of the original party in action! They are the ones who started it and as @ JaidynReiman said (new post.... >.<) are too important to the plot.

Plus then there is Isaac's popularity. If he makes it in Smash, GS will definitely feature him some way or other.

And other stuff. I forgot.

Edit: Also

Spoiler

The whole party has effectively disbanded at the end of GS3. Unlike in GS1 where Isaac's party continued the chase, and met up with Felix in GS2, technically speaking Dark Dawn despite its incompleteness ends on one atleast one note - it will be hard for 'em to all conveniently come back again at once. Plus as far as I remember, there is no password system in Dark Dawn so I don't know how far ahead Camelot planned this time. GS3 was not concurrently developed with a GS4 like how GS1 and 2 were (effectively one game divided into 2).

Sorry for the long convoluted post!

One seed I still think they will call back on is the Kolima psynergy shield thingy, watch them explain Alex's survival or another event that way when the time comes...

I agree some of their plans might change, specially if they had planned to use "points of no return" again for GS4, if events do happen at the same time as Dark Dawn.
I don't have much of a problem with leaving things open for future games, since I'm a guy with a lot of patience, but I understand some people might not like it! I mind it somewhat too in this case, mostly because the series is one of those sporadic games that appears once a generation whenever Nintendo feels like Camelot shouldn't be working on a Mario Sports title!
I also don't feel the original party is strictly needed, I like them, but that doesn't mean they have to be playable in every game! That said, I probably like the world and mechanics of the game more than it's characters apparently...

Well, they must have planned at least something, as evidenced by the afforementioned seeds. It doesn't mean they will use them, though. After all, Hiroyuki Takahashi did say and I quote:

A big reason for us making RPGs comes from the requests from all the people who have enjoyed our RPGs in the past. Perhaps if there are enough Nintendo users asking for another game in the Golden Sun series, then this will naturally lead to the development of such a game.
Speaking personally from the perspective of the story, I think that honestly it may not be so likely because Golden Sun really requires a full effort to be put in. But of course, if there are enough people saying that we really must create another game, then we may just have to listen to them. Still, you would need to give me a bit of time to work on ideas for the story before we could release a fourth game in the series.

If he needs time to think, it means he doesn't have everything fully planned! That doesn't mean he doesn't have a story skeleton in the closet...

By the way, I just noticed that lately Camelot takes an average of two years to produce a game - see here
This means that, if no other title made by them is announced until next year's E3, we might indeed have a chance of receiving a new Golden Sun title! (Or another Mario Sports title... )

@ Scoliosis Jones Glad you are giving it a chance, the games need more love, seriously.
Don't forget to strip Jenna of her items while solving the statue puzzle in Sol Sanctum (you will know when it's time), then you can sell those for better equipment!

EDIT: @ JohnnySparkxs Wait, what!? I guess I need to write my E3 predictions article tomorrow then! Was waiting for the 16th, but they had to do this before then...
I know they confirmed 5 games so far, and a few others will obviously be talked about during the presentation, I'm still curious about their plans, another Smash Invitational this year?

 

[JaidynReiman]

Golden Sun 4 HYPE!

I don't think they're announcing any unannounced games, just when they'll be shown off. I think this is the schedule of when games will be focused on, and how they'll present the showing as well. They might also potentially announce WHO is going to announce things.

One seed I still think they will call back on is the Kolima psynergy shield thingy, watch them explain Alex's survival or another event that way when the time comes...

I agree some of their plans might change, specially if they had planned to use "points of no return" again for GS4, if events do happen at the same time as Dark Dawn.
I don't have much of a problem with leaving things open for future games, since I'm a guy with a lot of patience, but I understand some people might not like it! I mind it somewhat too in this case, mostly because the series is one of those sporadic games that appears once a generation whenever Nintendo feels like Camelot shouldn't be working on a Mario Sports title!
I also don't feel the original party is strictly needed, I like them, but that doesn't mean they have to be playable in every game! That said, I probably like the world and mechanics of the game more than it's characters apparently...

Well, they must have planned at least something, as evidenced by the afforementioned seeds. It doesn't mean they will use them, though. After all, Hiroyuki Takahashi did say and I quote:

If he needs time to think, it means he doesn't have everything fully planned! That doesn't mean he doesn't have a story skeleton in the closet...

By the way, I just noticed that lately Camelot takes an average of two years to produce a game - see here
This means that, if no other title made by them is announced until next year's E3, we might indeed have a chance of receiving a new Golden Sun title! (Or another Mario Sports title... )

@ Scoliosis Jones Glad you are giving it a chance, the games need more love, seriously.
Don't forget to strip Jenna of her items while solving the statue puzzle in Sol Sanctum (you will know when it's time), then you can sell those for better equipment!

We've gone over the Mario Sports title issue many times. The problem is Camelot can't work on HD games. So Mario Sports titles are probably out of the question since they already did the ones for 3DS instead.

The only other option I can see is a DK 64 sequel on 3DS because Camelot talked about the idea several years ago (or so claim Hyle Russel and Chad McCanna; not that there's anything to doubt that Camelot stated this).

 

[Skyblade12]

There was no problem with Dark Dawn ending on a cliffhanger for a new game. The problem was not resolving ANY of the conflicts that had been introduced from the past game.

Lost Age ended with a cliffhanger about Alex. We knew he was coming back, and we knew he was coming after the Golden Sun. We just didn't know when.

But the game resolved the story that led into it, it wrapped up the cliffhanger of the Elemental Stars and the Lighthouses. We received a satisfactory conclusion to the end of that story.

Dark Dawn barely TOUCHES any of the plot elements left hanging from the cliffhanger at the end of Lost Age, and it introduces a ton of other story elements that don't get resolved as well. The eclipse gets started, then stopped. Other than that, nothing else happens. With the end result being that it feels like the entire game is pretty pointless. They needed to resolve the old story arcs before putting in new ones.

 

[Nintendokusou]

I don't think they're announcing any unannounced games, just when they'll be shown off. I think this is the schedule of when games will be focused on, and how they'll present the showing as well. They might also potentially announce WHO is going to announce things.



We've gone over the Mario Sports title issue many times. The problem is Camelot can't work on HD games. So Mario Sports titles are probably out of the question since they already did the ones for 3DS instead.

The only other option I can see is a DK 64 sequel on 3DS because Camelot talked about the idea several years ago (or so claim Hyle Russel and Chad McCanna; not that there's anything to doubt that Camelot stated this).

Good point and I hadn't realized they can't work on HD games, why is that?
And that DK sequel does seem unlikely right now, the series already has some games this generation, doesn't really need another one...

@ Skyblade12 Yup, that's exactly one of the problems of Dark Dawn, they created more questions than answers and left many things to the imagination, at least for now.
You won't like to hear this, but I feel like they want to make at least two more games to wrap things up, and that means the next one won't answer everything either!

 

[Skyblade12]

@ Skyblade12 Yup, that's exactly one of the problems of Dark Dawn, they created more questions than answers and left many things to the imagination, at least for now.
You won't like to hear this, but I feel like they want to make at least two more games to wrap things up, and that means the next one won't answer everything either!

They don't have to answer everything, they just have to answer something. Heck, they don't even have to FINISH the Alex arc (as that arc seems by far to be the most important arc of the series). Just progress it some, have something actually HAPPEN with Alex, and actually wrap up one of the others.

They really, REALLY need to finish the Psynergy Vortex arc in the next game. Since we know they're tied to the Tuaparing, you can't finish the Tuaparing arc without ending the Vortex arc anyway. And the Light/Dark Adept arc seems too tied to the lore and history to be rid of that quickly. So the Vortex arc NEEDS to come to a close.

 

[Nintendokusou]

They don't have to answer everything, they just have to answer something. Heck, they don't even have to FINISH the Alex arc (as that arc seems by far to be the most important arc of the series). Just progress it some, have something actually HAPPEN with Alex, and actually wrap up one of the others.

They really, REALLY need to finish the Psynergy Vortex arc in the next game. Since we know they're tied to the Tuaparing, you can't finish the Tuaparing arc without ending the Vortex arc anyway. And the Light/Dark Adept arc seems too tied to the lore and history to be rid of that quickly. So the Vortex arc NEEDS to come to a close.

Agreed, that needs to be finished in the next game!
And I concur, the Alex arc is so important it will probably be the last one to be solved, yet they should somehow cover his past or motivations, just give us something, right? o.0'

 

[JaidynReiman]

Good point and I hadn't realized they can't work on HD games, why is that?
And that DK sequel does seem unlikely right now, the series already has some games this generation, doesn't really need another one...

@ Skyblade12 Yup, that's exactly one of the problems of Dark Dawn, they created more questions than answers and left many things to the imagination, at least for now.
You won't like to hear this, but I feel like they want to make at least two more games to wrap things up, and that means the next one won't answer everything either!

Camelot aren't big enough to develop HD games. That's really all there is too it. The problem is that they apparently have a problem with dev's constantly leaving, and they've had this for a long time.


As for DK, I completely and totally... 100% disagree. Actually, I think its extremely likely we could get a 3D DK game in the very near future. DK is a much larger franchises, one of Nintendo's biggest. Its had two games in the past four years. I fully expect a new spinoff DK game, and think its quite likely a 3D DK platformer could be in the works, especially due to Tanabe's comments about wanting to see DK have both 3D and 2D DK games after the announcement of TF. That said its unlikely Camelot will do it unless they get someone else to do GS. I think they'd do GS first.

 

[LasermasterA]

@ Skyblade12 Yup, that's exactly one of the problems of Dark Dawn, they created more questions than answers and left many things to the imagination, at least for now.
You won't like to hear this, but I feel like they want to make at least two more games to wrap things up, and that means the next one won't answer everything either!

I also don't feel the original party is strictly needed, I like them, but that doesn't mean they have to be playable in every game! That said, I probably like the world and mechanics of the game more than it's characters apparently...

That is exactly why some if not all (I never asked for all) party members have to be back. They are the ones connected to the unsolved mysteries from Golden Sun and Golden Sun: TLA. Not the kids. Their predecessors. And no, Kraden is not a good enough link (plus he is starting to get on my nerves). Not just because of nostalgic reasons but for definite story-telling reasons. I wouldn't expect Mia to tell Rief to deal with Alex for her >.<

The older members are the ones linked to the history of Weyard and the Golden Sun. Also they have the biggest connections with Alex plus a lot of other people they met throughout the journey. Plus unlike the other people, they are still probably fit as a fiddle and ready to go (due to TLA ending).

I don't think the Alex arc will be complete without having a playable Isaac.

 

[Skyblade12]

That is exactly why some if not all (I never asked for all) party members have to be back. They are the ones connected to the unsolved mysteries from Golden Sun and Golden Sun: TLA. Not the kids. Their predecessors. And no, Kraden is not a good enough link (plus he is starting to get on my nerves). Not just because of nostalgic reasons but for definite story-telling reasons. I wouldn't expect Mia to tell Rief to deal with Alex for her >.<

The older members are the ones linked to the history of Weyard and the Golden Sun. Also they have the biggest connections with Alex plus a lot of other people they met throughout the journey. Plus unlike the other people, they are still probably fit as a fiddle and ready to go (due to TLA ending).

I don't think the Alex arc will be complete without having a playable Isaac.

Well, we could always have playable Isaac AND playable Alex.

Isaac and Alex settle it in Smash!

 

[Nintendokusou]

Camelot aren't big enough to develop HD games. That's really all there is too it. The problem is that they apparently have a problem with dev's constantly leaving, and they've had this for a long time.


As for DK, I completely and totally... 100% disagree. Actually, I think its extremely likely we could get a 3D DK game in the very near future. DK is a much larger franchises, one of Nintendo's biggest. Its had two games in the past four years. I fully expect a new spinoff DK game, and think its quite likely a 3D DK platformer could be in the works, especially due to Tanabe's comments about wanting to see DK have both 3D and 2D DK games after the announcement of TF. That said its unlikely Camelot will do it unless they get someone else to do GS. I think they'd do GS first.

Oh, so they are small and have difficulty holding onto people, that sure explains it!

Hmm... don't remember Tanabe saying that!
But if he said that, then I guess it's a possibility! And we can rule Retro Studios out for sure, so I don't know... maybe Next Level Games would be up to it, but they must be working on another Punch-Out so I don't think so... only if it's an internal Nintendo team or maybe HAL Laboratories or something like that!?
What I know is that they probably wouldn't give Golden Sun to another team, that would make the plot even more confusing! And the development is so rooted at Camelot by now that I can't imagine anyone else having enough courage to handle the series.

@ LasermasterA You do have a point, that Isaac vs. Alex would make sense. But the original heroes can always show up as npcs, they just need to be more present in the story than they did in DD.

@ Skyblade12 Isaac and Alex in Smash would be a childhood dream come true!

 

[JaidynReiman]

Well, we could always have playable Isaac AND playable Alex.

Isaac and Alex settle it in Smash!

Frankly I think Alex would be the most likely second character in Smash from GS. But we do need Isaac first, of course.

 

[LasermasterA]

@ LasermasterA You do have a point, that Isaac vs. Alex would make sense. But the original heroes can always show up as npcs, they just need to be more present in the story than they did in DD.

Not just their fight. I wouldn't want it to be the kids doing the job and the adults being the one giving out quests/background characters. Or the convenient scenario where we win the battle gameplay wise but lose storyline wise (I hate it when games do that) for someone to save us or the other scenario where we are doing the saving (just cause we are the controlling party). Even if older members are guests/temporary, we should be able to CONTROL them. Like mess around with Djinn, equipment, etc. Since we already have so many characters, I don't see how GS4 can have all of them (even all the GS3 characters if we consider that GS4 will give us Takeru and Nowell), but I wouldn't mind cycling them to a certain extent, as long as it is handled nicely that is.

Even Camelot tried to make the characters like the original 8 hence the similarities between characters in Dark Dawn. The first 4 are almost identical to Golden Sun: The Broken Seal's characters, and the last 4 are slightly different.

Spoiler

Isaac - Matthew (clone)
Garet - Tyrell (stupid fan version of Garet)
Ivan - Karis (3rd character, Jupiter, Ivan's daughter)
Mia - Rief (Mia's son, who is a mage just like his mom)
Piers - Piers (a fire version of the sailor Piers)
Sheba - Himi (venus mage)

Amiti is sort of like Jenna, as he can only go upto light swords but is not a mage. Sveta like Felix, is the character with the highest attack. She is the most different of the lot with her transformation and is more broken than Felix with a 99% Meggido setup