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Isaac for DLC - One day. Some day. Golden Sunday.

Skyblade12

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Nice!

From what I gather a lot of people seem to be expecting Isaac, or at least thinking he has a good chance, but aren't actually talking about him that much. So it's nice to see him get some love from someone with a big audience.
Unfortunately, even Derrick didn't really talk about him a lot. There was a bit of "well, I think he deserves it", and "he shouldn't have been removed as an AT", but no real "OMG, HE WOULD BE AWESOME TO PLAY AS". Not the most ringing endorsement, in my opinion. Glad he was a #1 spot, though.
 

N3ON

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Unfortunately, even Derrick didn't really talk about him a lot. There was a bit of "well, I think he deserves it", and "he shouldn't have been removed as an AT", but no real "OMG, HE WOULD BE AWESOME TO PLAY AS". Not the most ringing endorsement, in my opinion. Glad he was a #1 spot, though.
Yeah. I listened to it. It was pretty much "Isaac would be cool. Yeah, Isaac would be cool. He wasn't an AT, that's weird. Yeah, that's weird. HOW ABOUT THAT CRONO?"

:rolleyes:
 

Skyblade12

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Yeah. I listened to it. It was pretty much "Isaac would be cool. Yeah, Isaac would be cool. He wasn't an AT, that's weird. Yeah, that's weird. HOW ABOUT THAT CRONO?"

:rolleyes:
He did at least mention the earth based move potential. Although he overlooked the Djinn and the Hand Psynergies.

They also completely overlooked that Golden Sun was one of the only traditional JRPGs that are actually from Nintendo (the others being Paper Mario and Mother).
 

N3ON

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He did at least mention the earth based move potential. Although he overlooked the Djinn and the Hand Psynergies.

They also completely overlooked that Golden Sun was one of the only traditional JRPGs that are actually from Nintendo (the others being Paper Mario and Mother).
Is Pokemon not a traditional RPG? Xenoblade?
 

JaidynReiman

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Is Pokemon not a traditional RPG? Xenoblade?
Xenoblade definitely isn't. I would argue that Pokemon isn't really either, Pokemon is way different from traditional styles of RPG's as its more of a "collect monsters to help you fight in battle." Not the traditional sort of RPG where its more story-based and you get characters to help you on your journey to save the world.


Pokemon I'd argue is more "RPG lite."
 

Skyblade12

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Is Pokemon not a traditional RPG? Xenoblade?
Nope.

Traditional JRPGs feature set party members with dialogue and characterization (ergo, not Pokémon).

They also feature turn-based combat (ergo, not Xenoblade).


Not that those games are bad, by any means. Just that they aren't traditional JRPGs. Heck, Derrick mentions that Golden Sun is about as traditional as a JRPG can get.
 
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LasermasterA

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Is Pokemon not a traditional RPG? Xenoblade?
Xenoblade is very MMO-ish. Pokemon is not as deep as a typical RPG. It does have its complex mechanics and elements but it is quite different from a typical RPG.

Got :4greninja:'d! Twice! Posted anyway since I didn't want to erase it.

The Golden Sun game we deserve, but not the one we need:
View attachment 47490
xD I remember posting that 100 pages ago. Since Camelot works on Mario Tennis so often, I wouldn't mind GS characters making their way into one (marketing plug!!) or having a separate GS tennis game :p
 
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JaidynReiman

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Nope.

Traditional JRPGs feature set party members with dialogue and characterization (ergo, not Pokémon).

They also feature turn-based combat (ergo, not Xenoblade).


Not that those games are bad, by any means. Just that they aren't traditional JRPGs. Heck, Derrick mentions that Golden Sun is about as traditional as a JRPG can get.
Golden Sun is very traditional, but I still think it has a lot of unique mechanics to help set it apart. The ability to use psynergy both in battle for combat and outside of battle for puzzle solving is a unique feature, as well as Djinn affecting stats.


The one traditional GS element that NEEDS to die is random encounters. Random encounters are horrible and really just need to go away.
 

Skyblade12

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Golden Sun is very traditional, but I still think it has a lot of unique mechanics to help set it apart. The ability to use psynergy both in battle for combat and outside of battle for puzzle solving is a unique feature, as well as Djinn affecting stats.
Too true.

The one traditional GS element that NEEDS to die is random encounters. Random encounters are horrible and really just need to go away.
The only system I prefer to random encounters for handling encounters are the semi-set encounters from Chrono Trigger.
 
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N3ON

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Nope.

Traditional JRPGs feature set party members with dialogue and characterization (ergo, not Pokémon).
Not all of them. Dragon Que-er, Warrior didn't and that's like the most classic RPG. Well that and Final Fantasy. Which also features variable party members and little dialogue and characterization.

Pokemon features a party, turn-based combat, an overworld to explore, different attacks with different properties, a health bar, PP/mana/whatever, shops/people to run into, a quest... even if the party members aren't fully fleshed out characters that's just one element missing, it doesn't negate all the classic RPG elements it has.

They also feature turn-based combat (ergo, not Xenoblade).
Well... Xenoblade is pretty traditional for an action-based RPG. Even if it has a huge scope, because that doesn't really effect the gameplay... just the amount of gameplay.
 

Sabrewulf238

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Golden Sun is probably most similar to Earthbound in terms of gameplay. (at least if we're talking just Nintendo rpgs)

I'm hoping for Golden Sun 4 that they would add those sections where your party members talk with each other. (like in Xenoblade or Bravely Default) They can add interesting depth to characters while being skippable for people who don't care about it.

It would also save characters having to talk so much during important cutscenes. I heard some people got annoyed with that.

There's even a tvtropes page making fun of it: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ReactionShot
 
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JaidynReiman

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Too true.



The only system I prefer to random encounters for handling encounters are the semi-set encounters from Chrono Trigger.
My favorite is probably Lufia II, where enemies have a set pattern and only move when you move. Wandering enemies, though, are a lot easier to avoid. Chrono Trigger isn't quite on the same level because you don't always know if you'll actually encounter enemies at given points. Granted, its not random because they are set in one place.


Golden Sun is probably most similar to Earthbound in terms of gameplay. (at least if we're talking just Nintendo rpgs)

I'm hoping for Golden Sun 4 that they would add those sections where your party members talk with each other. (like in Xenoblade or Bravely Default) They can add interesting depth to characters while being skippable for people who don't care about it.

It would also save characters having to talk so much during important cutscenes. I heard some people got annoyed with that.
That would be cool. I'd love a sort of Private Action type of system similar to Star Ocean, where you can interact with your party inside towns.
 

Calane

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I'm a guy who lives and breathes turn based, level grinding, traditional JRPG's. I love them so much, I'll play any one I can get my hands on (Heck, I played through Grinsia on 3DS). I think it's fair to say that I've played a LOT of turn based RPG games, but the Golden Sun series is by far my favorite. I'm not exactly sure what it did, but it did it right. Very right. Really, the only other RPG series I like almost as much as GS is Breath of Fire. Dragon Quest is also cool (especially Dragon Quest V). Not sure why the guy in the GameXplain vid thought GS was generic.
 

JaidynReiman

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I'm a guy who lives and breathes turn based, level grinding, traditional JRPG's. I love them so much, I'll play any one I can get my hands on (Heck, I played through Grinsia on 3DS). I think it's fair to say that I've played a LOT of turn based RPG games, but the Golden Sun series is by far my favorite. I'm not exactly sure what it did, but it did it right. Very right. Really, the only other RPG series I like almost as much as GS is Breath of Fire. Dragon Quest is also cool (especially Dragon Quest V). Not sure why the guy in the GameXplain vid thought GS was generic.
I don't like grinding and bad random encounters (getting a random encounter every few steps), but otherwise I love everything else about turn-based traditional JRPG's.
 

Sabrewulf238

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I don't mind grinding if it's a reasonable amount of grinding. If I spent an entire gaming session (or even worse, multiple gaming sessions) grinding that would be over the top though.

I do agree I much prefer being able to see enemies on the map rather than having random encounters though.
 
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JaidynReiman

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I don't mind grinding if it's a reasonable amount of grinding. If I spent an entire gaming session (or even worse, multiple gaming sessions) grinding that would be over the top though.

I do agree I much prefer being able to see enemies on the map rather than having random encounters though.
If its a reasonable amount of grinding I agree. Like, if I skip a sidequest and that would've been enough for me to get the level I needed, or I run from a lot of encounters (I mainly run from encounters if I get them every few steps; drives me nuts), but if I have fun grinding I might do it more.
 

Skyblade12

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I agree with the "bad random encounter" statement, but I don't feel that's the case in Golden Sun. Golden Sun is one of the few games that I feel got the JRPG grind RIGHT. I actually went out and did grinding, hunting for rare drops and weapons (especially in Lost Age) just for FUN. I never felt like it was required to beat bosses or anything.
 

Calane

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I don't like grinding and bad random encounters (getting a random encounter every few steps), but otherwise I love everything else about turn-based traditional JRPG's.
Yeah, random encounters can get annoying (especially if they're too frequent), but I don't mind them too much. I simply enjoy the feeling of becoming stronger, watching my characters grow. The monotony of random battles kind of make the feeling of earning your levels more rewarding for me. Not everyone will do it, but you know that if you put in the time, you'll be rewarded for it later when you're taking down bosses like nothing. There's something about that feeling that just never gets old for me.
 

JaidynReiman

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I agree with the "bad random encounter" statement, but I don't feel that's the case in Golden Sun. Golden Sun is one of the few games that I feel got the JRPG grind RIGHT. I actually went out and did grinding, hunting for rare drops and weapons (especially in Lost Age) just for FUN. I never felt like it was required to beat bosses or anything.
I think random encounters are pretty average in GS. I don't get them too much and I really enjoyed the combat. Still, random encounters can get annoying at times. I'd love it if they did something like Lufia II; that has one of the best types of encounters I've had in any RPG where enemies only move when you move, so its all about trying to figure out the patterns of each enemy and trapping them to get the best encounter you can.
 

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I for one think that all the stars and planets are in line to see Isaac as Smash dlc. The fact that there's still music in from the game and he's not an AS already means he has high potential to be a character. Another thing that any video or thread that i've come across hasn't addressed is that Golden Sun is now on the eShop to purchase. So not only can they re-introduce this character as an awesome Smash character, Nintendo can also reference where he comes from by showing his game on the eShop. Realistically, I think he has one of the higher chances of making it in as dlc than most other characters. Other characters I see making it in are King K. and Wolf as for sure picks.
 

N3ON

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The thing that sticks out to me is as far as Nintendo characters go, excluding site favourites there's a hugely steep drop-off for popularity after K. Rool, Isaac, and Inkling. At least from what I've seen.

Though Krystal will be as popular as they are if she shows up at E3.
 

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The thing that sticks out to me is as far as Nintendo characters go, excluding site favourites there's a hugely steep drop-off for popularity after K. Rool, Isaac, and Inkling. At least from what I've seen.

Though Krystal will be as popular as they are if she shows up at E3.
Which is funny because K. Rool and Isaac are so popular right now and they haven't appeared in a while. So its really nice to see. (If Golden Sun 4 is even announced at E3 Isaac would skyrocket. Same for K. Rool announced to be in a new DK game.)
 

Falgor

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Derrick from Gamexplain supports Isaac as his #1 choice for DLC in their latest discussion! Go write something about Isaac in the comments if you can. They're rather big on YouTube, so hey, it can't hurt.
(Isaac talk at the 27:50 mark)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XToshSl1Mho&feature=youtu.be

His name is actually Derrick? I understood and wrote it "Derek" in my tweet. Oops. :nervous:

Just to add something to the nice "JRPGs random encounters", one of the nice things in Bravely Default was that you could choose the rate of random encounters (0/25/50/75/100%). Not the perfect system, but it was still something, you know. :p

And, guys, you must see this: http://nm.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/32mcez/final_results_the_smash_bros_dlc_reddit_survey_is/

We are doing it on Reddit! :awesome:
If we continue like this, in October when the Ballot ends, we'll beat everyone including the (imo) pretty silly (at least for Smash 4 DLC) Banjo and Shovel Knight.
 

Skyblade12

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His name is actually Derrick? I understood and wrote it "Derek" in my tweet. Oops. :nervous:

Just to add something to the nice "JRPGs random encounters", one of the nice things in Bravely Default was that you could choose the rate of random encounters (0/25/50/75/100%). Not the perfect system, but it was still something, you know. :p

And, guys, you must see this: http://nm.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/32mcez/final_results_the_smash_bros_dlc_reddit_survey_is/

We are doing it on Reddit! :awesome:
If we continue like this, in October when the Ballot ends, we'll beat everyone including the (imo) pretty silly (at least for Smash 4 DLC) Banjo and Shovel Knight.
Wow. Isaac beat K. Rool. Heck yeah.

I still don't think Banjo has a chance.
 

N3ON

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And, guys, you must see this: http://nm.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/32mcez/final_results_the_smash_bros_dlc_reddit_survey_is/

We are doing it on Reddit! :awesome:
If we continue like this, in October when the Ballot ends, we'll beat everyone including the (imo) pretty silly (at least for Smash 4 DLC) Banjo and Shovel Knight.


Wasn't expecting those kind of results, that's fantastic! ^_^

We can do it!

If Golden Sun 4 is even announced at E3 Isaac would skyrocket. Same for K. Rool announced to be in a new DK game.
Oh of course, I just mentioned Krystal specifically because we know there's a SF game in the works.
 
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Skyblade12

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Does anyone know how skewed the reddit poll was? We know that the 4chan polls were massively thrown off. But I don't know about this one. Was it relatively fair?
 

N3ON

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Does anyone know how skewed the reddit poll was? We know that the 4chan polls were massively thrown off. But I don't know about this one. Was it relatively fair?
I have no idea, but overall there doesn't seem to be any glaring oddities. I'll be honest in saying I didn't expect Isaac would place that high, but in general that seems to be an accurate representation of popularity.

Except I have to imagine K. Rool is by and large more popular than Isaac.
 
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CheckmateChuck

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Does anyone know how skewed the reddit poll was? We know that the 4chan polls were massively thrown off. But I don't know about this one. Was it relatively fair?
I think you could vote more than once and some guy by the name of "adrsmitey" talks about his "Isaac-Bot" in the comments. All that aside, the results do seem pretty believable and in line with the ones we've seen before.
So.. I'm not sure. But I'd like to think they're real, if only for Isaac bias.
 

Skyblade12

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I have no idea, but overall there doesn't seem to be any glaring oddities. I'll be honest in saying I didn't expect Isaac would place that high, but in general that seems to be an accurate representation of popularity.

Except I have to imagine K. Rool is by and large more popular than Isaac.
How about both? Vote Isaac for Smash, get K. Rool free!


:grin: I was looking for croc-skin boots, but this was the closest we get.
 

Skyblade12

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Given that more than 13,000 people responded (and more than 24,000 responses were recorded, counting machine votes).

I made a bot of my own to root out duplicate votes. If the bots were voting in a way that was indistinguishable to normal votes, then yeah, there are bot votes in there. But then I wouldn't have even known, would I? Besides, if they're not exhibiting a distinct trend towards skewing the votes in one way or another, then there isn't really much harm in leaving them in.

So, yeah. A lot of bot votes got thrown out (nearly half the votes), but it looks to be much more accurate than most.
 

N3ON

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I think you could vote more than once and some guy by the name of "adrsmitey" talks about his "Isaac-Bot" in the comments. All that aside, the results do seem pretty believable and in line with the ones we've seen before.
So.. I'm not sure. But I'd like to think they're real, if only for Isaac bias.
Well the OP says he got rid of botted votes... so I guess the only thing we can do is take him at his word. I mean Daisy and Paper Mario aren't nearly as high as they used to be. Who knows.

How about both? Vote Isaac for Smash, get K. Rool free!


:grin: I was looking for croc-skin boots, but this was the closest we get.
One can only hope~
 
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JaidynReiman

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Isaac is probably a bit too high, otherwise I'd agree with it. Yeah, I like that poll. I definitely think its epic that K. Rool and Isaac are, once again, towards the top of a poll.
 

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The thing that sticks out to me is as far as Nintendo characters go, excluding site favourites there's a hugely steep drop-off for popularity after K. Rool, Isaac, and Inkling. At least from what I've seen.

Though Krystal will be as popular as they are if she shows up at E3.
It's strange none of them have any recent appearances as of late. Excluding Inkling of course, all of them were Brawl candidates too.

New characters aren't being able to stand up to the legacy of these long runners. :p

:231:
 

Coaltergeist

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So, yeah. A lot of bot votes got thrown out (nearly half the votes), but it looks to be much more accurate than most.
"First up, any machine votes that got in originally have been gotten rid of- sorry, bots and bot owners, I know you were oh-so-keen to get DAISY DAISY DAISY DAISY into smash, but alas your effort was for naught. I'm not even in charge of who gets into smash, in case you didn't notice."
IDK if that means all the bots were discounted, but it certainly gives me hope.
 

N3ON

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Felt this post from reddit was worth sharing
It's insane how passionate the Isaac fans are, there's no game featuring him in it for many many years(but there will be with his inclusion), there's no developer of the game or popular internet figure pushing for people to vote for him, and there's no series coming out featuring those characters to compel people to vote for him. It's all just dedicated passion from his fans and all people who recognize how utterly perfect he is who want him in the game. How much have you seen these huge campaigns for K Rool, Shovel Knight etc. but still Isaac is the most consistent choice by far.

He's like the only character who still manages to make the "top lists" of everyone while not necessarily alwaysb eing their #1. He's the only character that almost everyone is for, but literally NO ONE is against. All the other top picks are all controversial for various reasons, and the ones who don't at least support Isaac or agree he'd be a perfect character are people who have never played Golden Sun or have no idea what he's actually capable of.

All of the threads saying "which of the popular votes would you NOT want in this game", the only Isaac you'll find in Ctrl+F is "I agree that character would suck, we need Isaac instead", it's amazing. Good work men, I believe in Isaac's chances UWAAAAH
:D
 

N3ON

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It's strange none of them have any recent appearances as of late. Excluding Inkling of course, all of them were Brawl candidates too.

New characters aren't being able to stand up to the legacy of these long runners. :p

:231:
As it stands now, being a notable candidate since pre-Brawl, Isaac is probably the longest requested serious contender still with a chance.

EDIT: Maybe Krystal too.

Just imagine if Camelot came out and announced support or Golden Sun 4.
The former would certainly help, but the latter would have it in the bag.
 
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Ultinarok

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You guys are ridiculous. Isaac has no chance. If there are three most likely candidates right now, they are Pink Gold Peach, Toon Dark Pit, and Son Goku.

Kid Icarus and Mario have a stunning lack of representation as it is, and franchises like DK and Golden Sun got way too much attention in this game. Its so lopsided and biased its ridiculous. Plus, our third party reps are laughable and make no sense whatsoever in this game. Pac-Man? Sonic? Come on, now. Son Goku is the best choice, especially considering he actually got his start in video games.

Honestly, people voting for Isaac should just give up. Nobody liked Golden Sun anyway, and it was a poorly received RPG that pales in comparison to classics like Quest 64. And Isaac, as a general character, is a loudmouth that never shuts up in-game, and I suspect he will be equally annoying in Smash as well. He doesn't even use a sword either, and that's definitely something that our current roster lacks. There is no way he could ever be a unique fighter.

Face it everyone, Pink Gold Peach and Toon Dark Pit, are more unique, popular, well-known and important to Nintendo's history than Isaac could ever be. And Goku just makes way more sense.

TL;DR Oh ho! Tis funny because it is opposite of truth!

Don't report me, this is a joke, flame shield is up just in case. Isaac for DLC.
 
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